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About the Skins/Cosmetics/Transmog policy in AOC

MyosotysMyosotys Member
edited March 21 in General Discussion
Stop me if I've misunderstood this subject, but I think the skins/commetics policy is going in the wrong direction.

In my opinion, skins cosmetics should be a modification of existing skins (armor, weapons etc.) without making the original item unrecognizable (total transmog).

In my opinion, a player's appearance should remain indicative of the equipment he wears. And I think that all these skins with no level restriction and skins that allow you to copy the appearance of another item should not exist.

On the other hand, I'm all for costumes. If some people like to strut their stuff in extravagant costumes, then there needs to be a special fashionista PvP Off zone where they can show off their finds.

I know that many of you will disagree, and I'm just sharing my humble opinion.

It seems that there will be an icon showing the armor category of opponent, I don't think it's enough.
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Comments

  • i dont think there is a right or wrong answer. it just depends how the devs want the game to be.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited October 2023
    I dont think you know how business and product value works, nor customer conditioning.

    I dont like cosmetics. I think they devalue the importance of gear. Also as you say they create problems in pvp, problems for which the devs work out solutions but making matters worse.

    But studios have ruined mmos by saying yes to every convenience the players demanded. The customers are spoiled now.
    You cant sell a skin for X amount of money and then restrict what the buyers expect from that product.

    It's 2023 and videogames make money by selling cosmetics, like it or not.
  • MyosotysMyosotys Member
    edited March 21

    But studios have ruined mmos by saying yes to every convenience the players demanded.

    Totaly agree.

    Yet it's so much more rewarding to earn your appearance through the effort you put into finding this or that item.

    In my opinion, small details added to original existing gear skins would be enough to keep the store going.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited October 2023
    Myosotys wrote: »

    But studios have ruined mmos by saying yes to every convenience the players demanded.

    Totall agree.

    Yet it's so much more rewarding to earn your appearance through the effort you put into finding this or that item.

    In my opinion, small details added to original existing gear skins would be enough to keep the store going.

    I like your idea of small additions to your ingame appearance, but perhaps it's too much dev work, in order to make them fit existing designs without clipping through, floating or what have you.

    In the face of entitled, demanding gamers and the difficulty of doing it properly, studios will keep doing what they currently do.
  • Myosotys wrote: »
    On the other hand, I'm all for costumes. If some people like to strut their stuff in extravagant costumes, then there needs to be a special fashionista PvP Off zone where they can show off their finds.
    Myosotys wrote: »
    Yet it's so much more rewarding to earn your appearance through the effort you put into finding this or that item.

    Then why PvP Off zone? Allow them in the ocean only and let proper fashion wars happen.
    You should be able to activate them only there and only if the gear is an epic tier with more than 88% durability left.
  • MyosotysMyosotys Member
    edited October 2023
    Raven016 wrote: »
    Myosotys wrote: »
    On the other hand, I'm all for costumes. If some people like to strut their stuff in extravagant costumes, then there needs to be a special fashionista PvP Off zone where they can show off their finds.
    Myosotys wrote: »
    Yet it's so much more rewarding to earn your appearance through the effort you put into finding this or that item.

    Then why PvP Off zone? Allow them in the ocean only and let proper fashion wars happen.
    You should be able to activate them only there and only if the gear is an epic tier with more than 88% durability left.

    Because costumes shouldn't be a skin of the gear you wear. It should be an independant item without bonus or maybe other bonuses than your usual gear. So if you wear them in PvP you will sux :D
    But honnestly I personnally don't care if PvP On or off because im not into the fashion at all. I like good looking gear only if it's a real original gear, not a skin.
  • Myosotys wrote: »
    Raven016 wrote: »
    Myosotys wrote: »
    On the other hand, I'm all for costumes. If some people like to strut their stuff in extravagant costumes, then there needs to be a special fashionista PvP Off zone where they can show off their finds.
    Myosotys wrote: »
    Yet it's so much more rewarding to earn your appearance through the effort you put into finding this or that item.

    Then why PvP Off zone? Allow them in the ocean only and let proper fashion wars happen.
    You should be able to activate them only there and only if the gear is an epic tier with more than 88% durability left.

    Because costumes shouldn't be a skin of the gear you wear. It should be an independant item without bonus or maybe other bonuses than your usual gear. So if you wear them in PvP you will sux :D
    But honnestly I personnally don't care if PvP On or off because im not into the fashion at all. I like good looking gear only if it's a real original gear, not a skin.

    Will you play the Alpha 2?
  • I don't know yet. Probably not... I didn't buy the pack yet. Why ?
  • Myosotys wrote: »
    I don't know yet. Probably not... I didn't buy the pack yet. Why ?
    Because a feedback given while playing is more accurate than just looking at videos and streams. You might even end up comfortable with how it is.
  • Myosotys wrote: »
    ..... I know that many of you will disagree, and I'm just sharing my humble opinion.
    yup... respectively, I very much disagree, cosmetics alleviate all the ugly mis-matching of gear on a toon
  • Caww wrote: »
    Myosotys wrote: »
    ..... I know that many of you will disagree, and I'm just sharing my humble opinion.
    yup... respectively, I very much disagree, cosmetics alleviate all the ugly mis-matching of gear on a toon

    It makes also complicated (maybe impossible) to know the gear of your opponent. Which is bad in PvP(X) game.
  • Myosotys wrote: »

    Let's say, dear Myosotys,

    i am well-aware i should not wear my "Unseen Order" Bony Outfit at LvL 1, or use it constantly.
    ( The Role-Player inside me would cringe myself to Death if i would try it ),


    but there are both Points for the Cosmetics to be freely changeable - and then not and that only certain Items/Classes of Items like for Example Armor Classes, should be able to possess certain Looks.

    Hopefully i will have some "Space/Storage" in bags and so on : so i can hopefully "switch" quickly between several Outfits with different Looks i may or may not want to have at certain Times. ;)



    I can't wait however to see "swanky People" with the most fancy Shop Armors getting sliced by Playerkillers who run around in Rags or Underwear like it's Dark Souls all over again. :D . 😂 . 🤣 . 😂
    jcildf8jglv5.png
  • Myosotys wrote: »
    It makes also complicated (maybe impossible) to know the gear of your opponent. Which is bad in PvP(X) game.

    Exactly what MMOs have you played in the past where you had the TIME to take your attention away from defending & counter-attacking in sudden, owPvP to *visually examine* another player's armor, in order to determine which abilities and weapon-sets to swap to?

    This always sounds like SUCH a wonderful idea on paper to people who haven't PvP'd a lot, nor played a lot of MMOs. Are there MMOs out there that have *NOT* sold cosmetics/allowed appearance-tabs, or have had a toggle to show real armor/appearance armor? I'm sure there have been. But if you're relying on *visual examination* to tell you what's best to swap to using in combat, then I'm guessing you're probably going to be at about 50% health, before you make that decision.

    The PvPers in-the-know in Ashes will be looking for the armor-type icon on an enemy's buff-bar, to know what they are wearing - and whether or not it's going to be worth it to swap weapons/abilities, in the lightning-fast drama of PvP combat; Only the noobs will be trying to look through the ability-animation pixels to try to determine which of the 3 armor types their opponents are wearing, when attacked.



  • Taleof2CitiesTaleof2Cities Member
    edited October 2023
    Myosotys wrote: »
    Caww wrote: »
    Myosotys wrote: »
    ..... I know that many of you will disagree, and I'm just sharing my humble opinion.
    yup... respectively, I very much disagree, cosmetics alleviate all the ugly mis-matching of gear on a toon

    It makes also complicated (maybe impossible) to know the gear of your opponent. Which is bad in PvP(X) game.

    The Wiki is short but crisp in its meaning on this topic, @Myosotys.

    Take a look when you get some downtime.

    That said, Intrepid isn't about to put the gear in reverse on cosmetics ... because someone still has "old skool" ideas of threat assessment.

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Threat_assessment
  • Myosotys wrote: »
    It makes also complicated (maybe impossible) to know the gear of your opponent. Which is bad in PvP(X) game.
    Yep. Roleplaying takes priority over gameplay though. Forget about simply glancing at your opponents to determine the right target based on damage mitigation, that would be far too logical. That's "old school". Instead, you have to cycle targets through 20 players, in the middle of a battle, and read what their buff icon says to determine their actual armor type, then try to remember what everyone was wearing when picking new targets. Welcome to the new world, where we create problems to cater to the few, then make a 'solution' that makes everything worse.
  • Myosotys wrote: »
    Caww wrote: »
    Myosotys wrote: »
    ..... I know that many of you will disagree, and I'm just sharing my humble opinion.
    yup... respectively, I very much disagree, cosmetics alleviate all the ugly mis-matching of gear on a toon

    It makes also complicated (maybe impossible) to know the gear of your opponent. Which is bad in PvP(X) game.

    The Wiki is short but crisp in its meaning on this topic, @Myosotys.

    Take a look when you get some downtime.

    That said, Intrepid isn't about to put the gear in reverse on cosmetics ... because someone still has "old skool" ideas of threat assessment.

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Threat_assessment

    Ok that will help. But it looks like @Voeltz told, a solution to a problem dev creates themselves.

    Let's call a spade a spade. In this situation, the cosmetics completely alter the appearance and then add a description revealing the altered appearance. It's all very complicated.

    Whereas it would be enough for the cosmetics sold to be an aesthetic enhancement of an item (while keeping the original item recognizable).

    Transforming heavy metal armor into a magician's robe is ridiculous.
  • TaerrikTaerrik Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited October 2023
    Myosotys wrote: »
    Transforming heavy metal armor into a magician's robe is ridiculous.

    Unless of course, I want to play a Tank/Mage class combination, and look more mage like.

  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Taerrik wrote: »
    Myosotys wrote: »
    Transforming heavy metal armor into a magician's robe is ridiculous.

    Unless of course, I want to play a Tank/Mage class combination, and look more mage like.

    Why would that make it any less ridiculous?

    If you want to play a tank/mage combination and want to look like a mage, wear robes.

    If you want to then say "but I want the stats of armor", then I have to ask why the class combination you are playing matters at all.
  • Taerrik wrote: »
    Myosotys wrote: »
    Transforming heavy metal armor into a magician's robe is ridiculous.

    Unless of course, I want to play a Tank/Mage class combination, and look more mage like.

    What's ridiculous isn't the fact that a mage wears heavy armor. It's that heavy armor looks like a robe. Or vice versa.
  • TaerrikTaerrik Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Noaani, you of all people on the forums, I am surprised by your statement of


    Noaani wrote: »
    If you want to then say "but I want the stats of armor", then I have to ask why the class combination you are playing matters at all.


    Stats matter, enough said.


  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Taerrik wrote: »
    Noaani, you of all people on the forums, I am surprised by your statement of


    Noaani wrote: »
    If you want to then say "but I want the stats of armor", then I have to ask why the class combination you are playing matters at all.


    Stats matter, enough said.


    I'm fairly well on record of stating that I think it is stupid that the game allows someone to have the stats of plate armor, but project the appearance of caster robes.

    The stats you have - that do indeed matter - should be reflected by the appearance your character has.

    However, you didn't answer the question posited.

    If we are to say that you want to look like you are wearing a robe, but have the stats of someone wearing plate armor, why does your class combination matter at all?
  • TaerrikTaerrik Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Because its a modern RPG, I'm going to play the class that has the playstyle I enjoy, and project the image with gear transmog based on the identity of what I imagine that is. So if I want a battlemage style job to wear cloth instead of plate, then thats what you will see.

    If you want to know what my build or threat to you is, then you have to figure that out by engaging me. Or remembering what I was using from the last time we fight.

    Information is part of war.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited October 2023
    Taerrik wrote: »
    Because its a modern RPG, I'm going to play the class that has the playstyle I enjoy, and project the image with gear transmog based on the identity of what I imagine that is. So if I want a battlemage style job to wear cloth instead of plate, then thats what you will see.
    I don't think you are getting the point.

    If you want to play a battlemage, wear plate, get the stats of that but project the image of cloth, why is that something that only applies if you are a battlemage?

    Why can't someone that is just a tank do the same? Why can't someone that is a mage project the image of wearing plate but actually be wearing cloth?

    You are right in that information is a part of war, but what that means is that the game should do it's best to communicate information on potential enemies succicintly and accurately.

    If the game is going out of it's way to place vanity in front of information, it seems to me that Intrepid don't consider information to be that important.
  • Raven016Raven016 Member
    edited October 2023
    Myosotys wrote: »
    Myosotys wrote: »
    Caww wrote: »
    Myosotys wrote: »
    ..... I know that many of you will disagree, and I'm just sharing my humble opinion.
    yup... respectively, I very much disagree, cosmetics alleviate all the ugly mis-matching of gear on a toon

    It makes also complicated (maybe impossible) to know the gear of your opponent. Which is bad in PvP(X) game.

    The Wiki is short but crisp in its meaning on this topic, @Myosotys.

    Take a look when you get some downtime.

    That said, Intrepid isn't about to put the gear in reverse on cosmetics ... because someone still has "old skool" ideas of threat assessment.

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Threat_assessment

    ...

    Transforming heavy metal armor into a magician's robe is ridiculous.

    I agree that such transformations hurt immersion.
    Maybe such cosmetics should have belong to a set/family and the player would have to obtain in game (or buy) the ones which fit with the in-game class/role he plays. More cosmetics for each specific case is better for the game and for developers too if they sell it in the store.
  • just make it so that you can turn off everyone's transmog
  • Depraved wrote: »
    just make it so that you can turn off everyone's transmog

    Yeah could be a solution but those who buy cosmetics do it to show off. If no one sees it, the buyers gonna complain :D
  • i thought people would buy cosmetics to look at their own character xD
    if he wants to show it off he can ask that person to turn the cosmetics on for a moment ;3
  • Not knowing someone's build before you attack them just adds to the Risk in "Risk vs Reward". It's part of the game.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • MyosotysMyosotys Member
    edited October 2023
    Depraved wrote: »
    i thought people would buy cosmetics to look at their own character xD
    if he wants to show it off he can ask that person to turn the cosmetics on for a moment ;3

    ahah ! I don't really know, I'm not into cosmetics but I think they want to show of.
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Not knowing someone's build before you attack them just adds to the Risk in "Risk vs Reward". It's part of the game.

    I disagree. In my opinion, if a player doesn't know the gear of his opponent, it should be because he lacks experience and knowledge of the game. Experience will give him the ability to recognize a weapon or armor, and he'll be able to react accordingly.

    To take your "risk versus reward" example, it's a bad one, because a risk that can't be assessed is no longer a risk but an inevitability or a fatality. Or at best a simple probality over which you have no influence.
  • You'll recognise their abilities when they start using them, then you have to react accordingly. If you know what you're going up against before you go up against it, that's not Risk, that's Calculation.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
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