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Are caravans still a pvp system?

ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
It is often mentioned when people ask about world pvp and think the corruption system is a bit harsh that it wont matter because we have all these other pvp systems in game to work with, viewing the caravans today i did like the look of them it seems fun but also seems like nothing more than a dulled up daily quest you would find in bfa, i wish intrepid could have gone into some more detail with the pvp side of caravans as that is one of the main attractions for most people, also setting up a trap in the road with a couple of your buddies seems a bit lame now too when caravans are literally mini bosses with huge heals and an aoe blast wave that pretty much makes it impossible to take one down solo lol, domt get me wrong everything visually looked great and for the most part it looked fun enough to atleast do a few times but as always with these streams there are just more questions left un answered 😪
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Comments

  • If you thought that you could defend or attack a caravan solo - you were being very very silly.

    I do agree that they should've shown the biggest part of this system on stream though.
  • ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    NiKr wrote: »
    If you thought that you could defend or attack a caravan solo - you were being very very silly.

    I do agree that they should've shown the biggest part of this system on stream though.

    Not so much kill one solo but i was more under the impression that the pvp would be against the player that owns the caravan, not the player using the caravan as a vechicle with insane abilities and heals, i think it would be better if the caravan moved by its self and you needed to get a bunch of friends to help protect it or hire mercs ( other players) to do so
  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Chicago wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    If you thought that you could defend or attack a caravan solo - you were being very very silly.

    I do agree that they should've shown the biggest part of this system on stream though.

    Not so much kill one solo but i was more under the impression that the pvp would be against the player that owns the caravan, not the player using the caravan as a vechicle with insane abilities and heals, i think it would be better if the caravan moved by its self and you needed to get a bunch of friends to help protect it or hire mercs ( other players) to do so

    Nah. Not move by itself but it does need to be more serious. I don't like the repulse or the heal. It looks like a Priest of Mitra has been arrested and is being taken to prison in a wagon.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • Doesnt seem like you can get off the caravan to defend it yourself so the caravan skills to a degree needs to equate to 1 person contributing in a fight, each skill was 60 second cooldown and only have 2 so there gonna be stronger due to downtime between their use.
    Not to mention these skill also might be based for lvl 50 players not lvl 25 ones this is something we dont know about but we know he was using decent tiered items but what level do they equate to where not sure.
  • ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Veeshan wrote: »
    Doesnt seem like you can get off the caravan to defend it yourself so the caravan skills to a degree needs to equate to 1 person contributing in a fight, each skill was 60 second cooldown and only have 2 so there gonna be stronger due to downtime between their use.
    Not to mention these skill also might be based for lvl 50 players not lvl 25 ones this is something we dont know about but we know he was using decent tiered items but what level do they equate to where not sure.

    Very true, i wonder if you could just get two ranged classes and kill one from max range then given that they move extremley slow
  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Veeshan wrote: »
    Doesnt seem like you can get off the caravan to defend it yourself so the caravan skills to a degree needs to equate to 1 person contributing in a fight, each skill was 60 second cooldown and only have 2 so there gonna be stronger due to downtime between their use.
    Not to mention these skill also might be based for lvl 50 players not lvl 25 ones this is something we dont know about but we know he was using decent tiered items but what level do they equate to where not sure.

    Need to be able to mount and dismount from wagon. It's lazy design. Also, I'd prefer an npc to walk out at the destination and drive the wagon into the building. I don't like the fact it just disappears and teleports the player 50 yards.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • Chicago wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    If you thought that you could defend or attack a caravan solo - you were being very very silly.

    I do agree that they should've shown the biggest part of this system on stream though.

    Not so much kill one solo but i was more under the impression that the pvp would be against the player that owns the caravan, not the player using the caravan as a vechicle with insane abilities and heals, i think it would be better if the caravan moved by its self and you needed to get a bunch of friends to help protect it or hire mercs ( other players) to do so

    they have said before "when the caravan gets destroyed, the cargo can be looted" so it implies that you have to destroy the vehicle, not the player.

    its also silly that you could just get a few people and win the attack because you focus fired one dude. no one would ever finish a run lol.

    also, you guys arent getting it. caravans need to be op. imagine you have 100 people hitting a caravan, if it wasnt op it would die in 1 second. you could have 100 people defending it but it doesn't matter because the attackers aren't forced to attack the players, all they have to do is hit the caravan and win. even if they cant loot it, they can prevent you from transporting stuff and then you have to start all over, which is a win for your enemies.

    i like that people cant dismount. i dont think its lazy design, it has a purpose. you need to pick your driver strategically. on top of that, you can have multiple caravans at the same time, and you basically have 1 less player per vehicle during the fight, however, they can still use the caravan abilities. imagine if you could use the heal or the push skill, then dismount and fight, then mount again, use the heal or push, then dismount and fight....

    defenders need an advantage, but not a broken one. the advantage is in upgrading the caravan.
  • I still need to digest the livestream to really form an opinion.

    First thought or impression of the glint commodities: good decoy wagons in a convoy. If the convoy is raided the attackers could waste time on caravans filled with "second rate" goods. If not attacked at all, the commodities making it to the final destination are extra profit.

    Second thought, man these thing were slow. No way you can escape pursuit at this crawl, any mounted players will catch up rather easily. Faster ones were mentions, but scarifying something else for the speed increase.

    Third thought, now I want a gypsy wagon player house.
    Be bold. Be brave. Roll a Tulnar !
  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Depraved wrote: »
    Chicago wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    If you thought that you could defend or attack a caravan solo - you were being very very silly.

    I do agree that they should've shown the biggest part of this system on stream though.

    Not so much kill one solo but i was more under the impression that the pvp would be against the player that owns the caravan, not the player using the caravan as a vechicle with insane abilities and heals, i think it would be better if the caravan moved by its self and you needed to get a bunch of friends to help protect it or hire mercs ( other players) to do so

    they have said before "when the caravan gets destroyed, the cargo can be looted" so it implies that you have to destroy the vehicle, not the player.

    its also silly that you could just get a few people and win the attack because you focus fired one dude. no one would ever finish a run lol.

    also, you guys arent getting it. caravans need to be op. imagine you have 100 people hitting a caravan, if it wasnt op it would die in 1 second. you could have 100 people defending it but it doesn't matter because the attackers aren't forced to attack the players, all they have to do is hit the caravan and win. even if they cant loot it, they can prevent you from transporting stuff and then you have to start all over, which is a win for your enemies.

    i like that people cant dismount. i dont think its lazy design, it has a purpose. you need to pick your driver strategically. on top of that, you can have multiple caravans at the same time, and you basically have 1 less player per vehicle during the fight, however, they can still use the caravan abilities. imagine if you could use the heal or the push skill, then dismount and fight, then mount again, use the heal or push, then dismount and fight....

    defenders need an advantage, but not a broken one. the advantage is in upgrading the caravan.

    The caravan should be tanky regardless. It doesn't need a pulsar and a heal. If you are incapable of getting healers to assist you or people to defend against attack then you should fail. You need to be able to mount and dismount - its not a getaway vehicle and even it was you can mount and dismount a get away vehicle in GTA 5. The caravan should get more armour the more its upgraded. It would also be nice if it degrades from attacks. Visible damage would be a nice addition. Right now, people want to take the caravans to NPC Boss Fights and to use them in raids and sieges. I don't want a raid partner who is stuck on a caravan in my team. I want a functional wagon that takes a lot of damage. In old version the caravan was attacked last and the players were taken out first. The old system was fine. The old caravan was fine. Just beef up the HP and Defence - no need for gimmicks like Harpoons on bosses or caravans in a raid or siege like a steam punk tank.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • Percimes wrote: »
    I still need to digest the livestream to really form an opinion.

    First thought or impression of the glint commodities: good decoy wagons in a convoy. If the convoy is raided the attackers could waste time on caravans filled with "second rate" goods. If not attacked at all, the commodities making it to the final destination are extra profit.

    Second thought, man these thing were slow. No way you can escape pursuit at this crawl, any mounted players will catch up rather easily. Faster ones were mentions, but scarifying something else for the speed increase.

    Third thought, now I want a gypsy wagon player house.

    those were low tier caravanas. we havent seen everything yet. they will get faster, plus steven wasnt using the speed boost on cooldown.

  • Neurath wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    Chicago wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    If you thought that you could defend or attack a caravan solo - you were being very very silly.

    I do agree that they should've shown the biggest part of this system on stream though.

    Not so much kill one solo but i was more under the impression that the pvp would be against the player that owns the caravan, not the player using the caravan as a vechicle with insane abilities and heals, i think it would be better if the caravan moved by its self and you needed to get a bunch of friends to help protect it or hire mercs ( other players) to do so

    they have said before "when the caravan gets destroyed, the cargo can be looted" so it implies that you have to destroy the vehicle, not the player.

    its also silly that you could just get a few people and win the attack because you focus fired one dude. no one would ever finish a run lol.

    also, you guys arent getting it. caravans need to be op. imagine you have 100 people hitting a caravan, if it wasnt op it would die in 1 second. you could have 100 people defending it but it doesn't matter because the attackers aren't forced to attack the players, all they have to do is hit the caravan and win. even if they cant loot it, they can prevent you from transporting stuff and then you have to start all over, which is a win for your enemies.

    i like that people cant dismount. i dont think its lazy design, it has a purpose. you need to pick your driver strategically. on top of that, you can have multiple caravans at the same time, and you basically have 1 less player per vehicle during the fight, however, they can still use the caravan abilities. imagine if you could use the heal or the push skill, then dismount and fight, then mount again, use the heal or push, then dismount and fight....

    defenders need an advantage, but not a broken one. the advantage is in upgrading the caravan.

    The caravan should be tanky regardless. It doesn't need a pulsar and a heal. If you are incapable of getting healers to assist you or people to defend against attack then you should fail. You need to be able to mount and dismount - its not a getaway vehicle and even it was you can mount and dismount a get away vehicle in GTA 5. The caravan should get more armour the more its upgraded. It would also be nice if it degrades from attacks. Visible damage would be a nice addition. Right now, people want to take the caravans to NPC Boss Fights and to use them in raids and sieges. I don't want a raid partner who is stuck on a caravan in my team. I want a functional wagon that takes a lot of damage. In old version the caravan was attacked last and the players were taken out first. The old system was fine. The old caravan was fine. Just beef up the HP and Defence - no need for gimmicks like Harpoons on bosses or caravans in a raid or siege like a steam punk tank.

    maybe thats why they changed the old system? what if you could dismount and hide or run away. people would never destroy the caravan. they would have to wipe everyone, winning the pvp, then sitting there for 15 minutes until it gets destroyed, and they will have to win pvp again and again and again and again because your group can keep coming back.

    also, you still dont get it. you can bring all the healers you want, but i can also keep bringing people. im not forced to attack your healers or your dps. i can have my whole alliance rush to the caravan, target and 1 shot it and you lose, simple as that. doesnt matter if you have 300 healers and if the driver can dismount when your stuff gets 1 shotted. so the caravan having abilities to prevent that is not a bad thing.

    Caravans are made for large scale battles, not 3 dudes ganking on some lonely dude transporting his goods.

    also, i doubt you will be able to take them to raids or sieges. they will disappear after a while if you havent reached your destination, iirc. plus the heals might draw too much aggro and then the boss just destroys the vehicle. if you dont want someone riding a caravan for your raid or siege, dont invite them.
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited November 2023
    well, I have been saying this for years, just look at the games that ashes is taking inspiration from, look at Archeage and Silkroad for the caravan system, its literally the same, there is no surprises if you already know what to expect :)
    img]
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  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    The whole point is the caravan should stop - its slow as fuck, even upgraded. Enemies can walk and batter the thing. Sounds excellent for tactics and strategy - not. There should be an ambush, the caravan should be halted, the player should be dismounted and there should be a zone like a duel zone for the attackers and defenders to duke it out. If the defenders leave (flee) the attackers win by default and vice versa. You know, an actual PvP game function - not a gimmick.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Depraved wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    Chicago wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    If you thought that you could defend or attack a caravan solo - you were being very very silly.

    I do agree that they should've shown the biggest part of this system on stream though.

    Not so much kill one solo but i was more under the impression that the pvp would be against the player that owns the caravan, not the player using the caravan as a vechicle with insane abilities and heals, i think it would be better if the caravan moved by its self and you needed to get a bunch of friends to help protect it or hire mercs ( other players) to do so

    they have said before "when the caravan gets destroyed, the cargo can be looted" so it implies that you have to destroy the vehicle, not the player.

    its also silly that you could just get a few people and win the attack because you focus fired one dude. no one would ever finish a run lol.

    also, you guys arent getting it. caravans need to be op. imagine you have 100 people hitting a caravan, if it wasnt op it would die in 1 second. you could have 100 people defending it but it doesn't matter because the attackers aren't forced to attack the players, all they have to do is hit the caravan and win. even if they cant loot it, they can prevent you from transporting stuff and then you have to start all over, which is a win for your enemies.

    i like that people cant dismount. i dont think its lazy design, it has a purpose. you need to pick your driver strategically. on top of that, you can have multiple caravans at the same time, and you basically have 1 less player per vehicle during the fight, however, they can still use the caravan abilities. imagine if you could use the heal or the push skill, then dismount and fight, then mount again, use the heal or push, then dismount and fight....

    defenders need an advantage, but not a broken one. the advantage is in upgrading the caravan.

    The caravan should be tanky regardless. It doesn't need a pulsar and a heal. If you are incapable of getting healers to assist you or people to defend against attack then you should fail. You need to be able to mount and dismount - its not a getaway vehicle and even it was you can mount and dismount a get away vehicle in GTA 5. The caravan should get more armour the more its upgraded. It would also be nice if it degrades from attacks. Visible damage would be a nice addition. Right now, people want to take the caravans to NPC Boss Fights and to use them in raids and sieges. I don't want a raid partner who is stuck on a caravan in my team. I want a functional wagon that takes a lot of damage. In old version the caravan was attacked last and the players were taken out first. The old system was fine. The old caravan was fine. Just beef up the HP and Defence - no need for gimmicks like Harpoons on bosses or caravans in a raid or siege like a steam punk tank.

    maybe thats why they changed the old system? what if you could dismount and hide or run away. people would never destroy the caravan. they would have to wipe everyone, winning the pvp, then sitting there for 15 minutes until it gets destroyed, and they will have to win pvp again and again and again and again because your group can keep coming back.

    also, you still dont get it. you can bring all the healers you want, but i can also keep bringing people. im not forced to attack your healers or your dps. i can have my whole alliance rush to the caravan, target and 1 shot it and you lose, simple as that. doesnt matter if you have 300 healers and if the driver can dismount when your stuff gets 1 shotted. so the caravan having abilities to prevent that is not a bad thing.

    Caravans are made for large scale battles, not 3 dudes ganking on some lonely dude transporting his goods.

    also, i doubt you will be able to take them to raids or sieges. they will disappear after a while if you havent reached your destination, iirc. plus the heals might draw too much aggro and then the boss just destroys the vehicle. if you dont want someone riding a caravan for your raid or siege, dont invite them.

    I dont think caravans are made for large scale battles with a world size of 1200 km2 and no fast travel, its more likely it will be a hroup if 2-3 attacking a caravan
  • ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Neurath wrote: »
    The whole point is the caravan should stop - its slow as fuck, even upgraded. Enemies can walk and batter the thing. Sounds excellent for tactics and strategy - not. There should be an ambush, the caravan should be halted, the player should be dismounted and there should be a zone like a duel zone for the attackers and defenders to duke it out. If the defenders leave (flee) the attackers win by default and vice versa. You know, an actual PvP game function - not a gimmick.

    Yep the caravan could get some sort of immunity buff whilst the owner is dismounted pvping, maybe with a vincinity around the defenders, if the owner dies and fails to get back to the caravan in said time frame it could be attackable and lootable, lots of mechanics they could use
  • Chicago wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    Chicago wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    If you thought that you could defend or attack a caravan solo - you were being very very silly.

    I do agree that they should've shown the biggest part of this system on stream though.

    Not so much kill one solo but i was more under the impression that the pvp would be against the player that owns the caravan, not the player using the caravan as a vechicle with insane abilities and heals, i think it would be better if the caravan moved by its self and you needed to get a bunch of friends to help protect it or hire mercs ( other players) to do so

    they have said before "when the caravan gets destroyed, the cargo can be looted" so it implies that you have to destroy the vehicle, not the player.

    its also silly that you could just get a few people and win the attack because you focus fired one dude. no one would ever finish a run lol.

    also, you guys arent getting it. caravans need to be op. imagine you have 100 people hitting a caravan, if it wasnt op it would die in 1 second. you could have 100 people defending it but it doesn't matter because the attackers aren't forced to attack the players, all they have to do is hit the caravan and win. even if they cant loot it, they can prevent you from transporting stuff and then you have to start all over, which is a win for your enemies.

    i like that people cant dismount. i dont think its lazy design, it has a purpose. you need to pick your driver strategically. on top of that, you can have multiple caravans at the same time, and you basically have 1 less player per vehicle during the fight, however, they can still use the caravan abilities. imagine if you could use the heal or the push skill, then dismount and fight, then mount again, use the heal or push, then dismount and fight....

    defenders need an advantage, but not a broken one. the advantage is in upgrading the caravan.

    The caravan should be tanky regardless. It doesn't need a pulsar and a heal. If you are incapable of getting healers to assist you or people to defend against attack then you should fail. You need to be able to mount and dismount - its not a getaway vehicle and even it was you can mount and dismount a get away vehicle in GTA 5. The caravan should get more armour the more its upgraded. It would also be nice if it degrades from attacks. Visible damage would be a nice addition. Right now, people want to take the caravans to NPC Boss Fights and to use them in raids and sieges. I don't want a raid partner who is stuck on a caravan in my team. I want a functional wagon that takes a lot of damage. In old version the caravan was attacked last and the players were taken out first. The old system was fine. The old caravan was fine. Just beef up the HP and Defence - no need for gimmicks like Harpoons on bosses or caravans in a raid or siege like a steam punk tank.

    maybe thats why they changed the old system? what if you could dismount and hide or run away. people would never destroy the caravan. they would have to wipe everyone, winning the pvp, then sitting there for 15 minutes until it gets destroyed, and they will have to win pvp again and again and again and again because your group can keep coming back.

    also, you still dont get it. you can bring all the healers you want, but i can also keep bringing people. im not forced to attack your healers or your dps. i can have my whole alliance rush to the caravan, target and 1 shot it and you lose, simple as that. doesnt matter if you have 300 healers and if the driver can dismount when your stuff gets 1 shotted. so the caravan having abilities to prevent that is not a bad thing.

    Caravans are made for large scale battles, not 3 dudes ganking on some lonely dude transporting his goods.

    also, i doubt you will be able to take them to raids or sieges. they will disappear after a while if you havent reached your destination, iirc. plus the heals might draw too much aggro and then the boss just destroys the vehicle. if you dont want someone riding a caravan for your raid or siege, dont invite them.

    I dont think caravans are made for large scale battles with a world size of 1200 km2 and no fast travel, its more likely it will be a hroup if 2-3 attacking a caravan

    I do potentialy see some larger scale caravan action happening but i think it be rarer, large guild often do guidl run where they do muiltipul onto of eachother and spys often get the intel of those and you mihgt see some larger scale attacks leading up to a node war aswell preventing supplies coming in to a node thats getting warred.
    that being said majority of them much like archage were rather small scale opportunist attacks more than anything
  • Devs know what they are doing and looks good, some of the feed back i see in this thread is kind of weird. Enen more so wanting to fight it with 2-3 people....
  • Neurath wrote: »
    The whole point is the caravan should stop - its slow as fuck, even upgraded. Enemies can walk and batter the thing. Sounds excellent for tactics and strategy - not. There should be an ambush, the caravan should be halted, the player should be dismounted and there should be a zone like a duel zone for the attackers and defenders to duke it out. If the defenders leave (flee) the attackers win by default and vice versa. You know, an actual PvP game function - not a gimmick.

    it isnt a system so that 4 dudes gank 1 or 2 guys trying to transport their stuff and it is also not a team deathmatch game. its a large scale objective based pvp. its kinda like war of emperium in ro.

    also how big this area should be? what if you have 1000 players defending? area might have to be a mile long...then when u only have 10 players defending, a mile long area doesnt matter.

    and u cant make it a small area because you need to fit potentially hundreds of players.

    winning or losing in the caravan is about killing or protecting the vehicle, not killing the players. players can be killed and come back before the fight is over.

    im sure the caravan will be much faster once the caravanserai is fully upgraded and you buy the fastest parts. or maybe you want a slow but sturdy one ;3

  • DepravedDepraved Member
    edited November 2023
    Chicago wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    Chicago wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    If you thought that you could defend or attack a caravan solo - you were being very very silly.

    I do agree that they should've shown the biggest part of this system on stream though.

    Not so much kill one solo but i was more under the impression that the pvp would be against the player that owns the caravan, not the player using the caravan as a vechicle with insane abilities and heals, i think it would be better if the caravan moved by its self and you needed to get a bunch of friends to help protect it or hire mercs ( other players) to do so

    they have said before "when the caravan gets destroyed, the cargo can be looted" so it implies that you have to destroy the vehicle, not the player.

    its also silly that you could just get a few people and win the attack because you focus fired one dude. no one would ever finish a run lol.

    also, you guys arent getting it. caravans need to be op. imagine you have 100 people hitting a caravan, if it wasnt op it would die in 1 second. you could have 100 people defending it but it doesn't matter because the attackers aren't forced to attack the players, all they have to do is hit the caravan and win. even if they cant loot it, they can prevent you from transporting stuff and then you have to start all over, which is a win for your enemies.

    i like that people cant dismount. i dont think its lazy design, it has a purpose. you need to pick your driver strategically. on top of that, you can have multiple caravans at the same time, and you basically have 1 less player per vehicle during the fight, however, they can still use the caravan abilities. imagine if you could use the heal or the push skill, then dismount and fight, then mount again, use the heal or push, then dismount and fight....

    defenders need an advantage, but not a broken one. the advantage is in upgrading the caravan.

    The caravan should be tanky regardless. It doesn't need a pulsar and a heal. If you are incapable of getting healers to assist you or people to defend against attack then you should fail. You need to be able to mount and dismount - its not a getaway vehicle and even it was you can mount and dismount a get away vehicle in GTA 5. The caravan should get more armour the more its upgraded. It would also be nice if it degrades from attacks. Visible damage would be a nice addition. Right now, people want to take the caravans to NPC Boss Fights and to use them in raids and sieges. I don't want a raid partner who is stuck on a caravan in my team. I want a functional wagon that takes a lot of damage. In old version the caravan was attacked last and the players were taken out first. The old system was fine. The old caravan was fine. Just beef up the HP and Defence - no need for gimmicks like Harpoons on bosses or caravans in a raid or siege like a steam punk tank.

    maybe thats why they changed the old system? what if you could dismount and hide or run away. people would never destroy the caravan. they would have to wipe everyone, winning the pvp, then sitting there for 15 minutes until it gets destroyed, and they will have to win pvp again and again and again and again because your group can keep coming back.

    also, you still dont get it. you can bring all the healers you want, but i can also keep bringing people. im not forced to attack your healers or your dps. i can have my whole alliance rush to the caravan, target and 1 shot it and you lose, simple as that. doesnt matter if you have 300 healers and if the driver can dismount when your stuff gets 1 shotted. so the caravan having abilities to prevent that is not a bad thing.

    Caravans are made for large scale battles, not 3 dudes ganking on some lonely dude transporting his goods.

    also, i doubt you will be able to take them to raids or sieges. they will disappear after a while if you havent reached your destination, iirc. plus the heals might draw too much aggro and then the boss just destroys the vehicle. if you dont want someone riding a caravan for your raid or siege, dont invite them.

    I dont think caravans are made for large scale battles with a world size of 1200 km2 and no fast travel, its more likely it will be a hroup if 2-3 attacking a caravan

    its not 2-3 attacking a caravan. remember you can launch multiple caravans at the same time, you will need multiple players to destroy them.

    what if it was a small pvp system, maybe party vs party. i could literally just focus fire the rider even if he was dismounted and win. how is that fair? what if its a 20 vs 20. 1 person cant survive 20 people attacking him. he dies instantly and you lose the caravan defenders progression plus your goods.

    its an open world system, not an instance with a limited amount of players like the castle sieges for example.. remember you can keep bringing players to attack, so the defenders need an advantage.

    its an open world system, it screams large scale everywhere.
  • ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Devs know what they are doing and looks good, some of the feed back i see in this thread is kind of weird. Enen more so wanting to fight it with 2-3 people....

    Well think about it mate, for comparison the world size is 4x bigger than the wow classic world, there is no means of relevent fast travel and for the most part the only way youre going to be seeing caravans is if you randomly stumble into one, i doubt people will regularly be running around the world with 15 other people with them so yeah caravans are going to be majorly small scale skirms,

    Yes i can see bigger guilds doing caravan runs together later on down the track but without days notice noone is really going to setup a raid scale event to fight them, for reference it takes hours to run through the wow classic world, try doing it with a map 4x bigger just to make it on time for a caravan attack, its logistically just not going to happen and not worth the time investment either for the mats you would recieve for winning
  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Depraved wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    The whole point is the caravan should stop - its slow as fuck, even upgraded. Enemies can walk and batter the thing. Sounds excellent for tactics and strategy - not. There should be an ambush, the caravan should be halted, the player should be dismounted and there should be a zone like a duel zone for the attackers and defenders to duke it out. If the defenders leave (flee) the attackers win by default and vice versa. You know, an actual PvP game function - not a gimmick.

    it isnt a system so that 4 dudes gank 1 or 2 guys trying to transport their stuff and it is also not a team deathmatch game. its a large scale objective based pvp. its kinda like war of emperium in ro.

    also how big this area should be? what if you have 1000 players defending? area might have to be a mile long...then when u only have 10 players defending, a mile long area doesnt matter.

    and u cant make it a small area because you need to fit potentially hundreds of players.

    winning or losing in the caravan is about killing or protecting the vehicle, not killing the players. players can be killed and come back before the fight is over.

    im sure the caravan will be much faster once the caravanserai is fully upgraded and you buy the fastest parts. or maybe you want a slow but sturdy one ;3

    I'm aware of the large scale plans. I'm aware of the large scale fights. You're crazy if you think a repulse will save the caravan. Ranged classes will just nuke the caravan from range - especially if there's 1000 enemies. Sounds like a decent plan you have. The heal might save a few lives and buy a little time but focussed fire from 1000 ranged weapons (Melee also have ranged weapons) would soon destroy the caravan. Even if the defenders duked with the 1000 ranged you choose what you target. Its difficult to assess the full scale and parameters - I'm going off the old caravan system/pvp. Its a real shame we weren't shown pvp yesterday. I'm using 1000 people as an example because you mentioned 1000 people. Also, the attackers choose the ambush ground, not the defenders.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • Chicago wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Devs know what they are doing and looks good, some of the feed back i see in this thread is kind of weird. Enen more so wanting to fight it with 2-3 people....

    Well think about it mate, for comparison the world size is 4x bigger than the wow classic world, there is no means of relevent fast travel and for the most part the only way youre going to be seeing caravans is if you randomly stumble into one, i doubt people will regularly be running around the world with 15 other people with them so yeah caravans are going to be majorly small scale skirms,

    Yes i can see bigger guilds doing caravan runs together later on down the track but without days notice noone is really going to setup a raid scale event to fight them, for reference it takes hours to run through the wow classic world, try doing it with a map 4x bigger just to make it on time for a caravan attack, its logistically just not going to happen and not worth the time investment either for the mats you would recieve for winning

    most caravans will happen in a small minority of nodes. not all nodes are equal. most likely tier 5 and 6 nodes will have the most people and also the most caravan runs as they have access to higher tier buildings, offering you better parts for your caravans. but this almost means that there will be more people around you that could potentially attack you, or that could alert their friends who are in nearby nodes. they dont have to arrive before you launch the caravan, they can arrive a few mins after when you are in the middle of your route and attack you.

    tier 3 nodes will still have caravans with less people, but also, the vehicles will be weaker, so there is some balance.

    also, when you sell too many of the same goods in the same node, the amount of money you make decreases. people will figure out where to sell and flock there, then go to the next node, etc. people will know where the caravans are.
  • ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Also for everyone other than the most elite guilds having 10-15 people defend your caravan is just not going to happen, just imagine someone in your guild sais " hey can anyone come help me with a quick caravan run" chances are you are probably a solid 45 minute run to even get the the spot they are at you are most likely not going to get that many people helping you
  • ChicagoChicago Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Depraved wrote: »
    Chicago wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Devs know what they are doing and looks good, some of the feed back i see in this thread is kind of weird. Enen more so wanting to fight it with 2-3 people....

    Well think about it mate, for comparison the world size is 4x bigger than the wow classic world, there is no means of relevent fast travel and for the most part the only way youre going to be seeing caravans is if you randomly stumble into one, i doubt people will regularly be running around the world with 15 other people with them so yeah caravans are going to be majorly small scale skirms,

    Yes i can see bigger guilds doing caravan runs together later on down the track but without days notice noone is really going to setup a raid scale event to fight them, for reference it takes hours to run through the wow classic world, try doing it with a map 4x bigger just to make it on time for a caravan attack, its logistically just not going to happen and not worth the time investment either for the mats you would recieve for winning

    most caravans will happen in a small minority of nodes. not all nodes are equal. most likely tier 5 and 6 nodes will have the most people and also the most caravan runs as they have access to higher tier buildings, offering you better parts for your caravans. but this almost means that there will be more people around you that could potentially attack you, or that could alert their friends who are in nearby nodes. they dont have to arrive before you launch the caravan, they can arrive a few mins after when you are in the middle of your route and attack you.

    tier 3 nodes will still have caravans with less people, but also, the vehicles will be weaker, so there is some balance.

    also, when you sell too many of the same goods in the same node, the amount of money you make decreases. people will figure out where to sell and flock there, then go to the next node, etc. people will know where the caravans are.

    This node point is a good one i didnt think about that
  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    The state of the current caravans with the repulse and heals worries me because I want to trade with ships. I really don't want a ship with a repulse and heal...i hoped for proper naval combat. I hoped for actual PvP combat.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • Neurath wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    The whole point is the caravan should stop - its slow as fuck, even upgraded. Enemies can walk and batter the thing. Sounds excellent for tactics and strategy - not. There should be an ambush, the caravan should be halted, the player should be dismounted and there should be a zone like a duel zone for the attackers and defenders to duke it out. If the defenders leave (flee) the attackers win by default and vice versa. You know, an actual PvP game function - not a gimmick.

    it isnt a system so that 4 dudes gank 1 or 2 guys trying to transport their stuff and it is also not a team deathmatch game. its a large scale objective based pvp. its kinda like war of emperium in ro.

    also how big this area should be? what if you have 1000 players defending? area might have to be a mile long...then when u only have 10 players defending, a mile long area doesnt matter.

    and u cant make it a small area because you need to fit potentially hundreds of players.

    winning or losing in the caravan is about killing or protecting the vehicle, not killing the players. players can be killed and come back before the fight is over.

    im sure the caravan will be much faster once the caravanserai is fully upgraded and you buy the fastest parts. or maybe you want a slow but sturdy one ;3

    I'm aware of the large scale plans. I'm aware of the large scale fights. You're crazy if you think a repulse will save the caravan. Ranged classes will just nuke the caravan from range - especially if there's 1000 enemies. Sounds like a decent plan you have. The heal might save a few lives and buy a little time but focussed fire from 1000 ranged weapons (Melee also have ranged weapons) would soon destroy the caravan. Even if the defenders duked with the 1000 ranged you choose what you target. Its difficult to assess the full scale and parameters - I'm going off the old caravan system/pvp. Its a real shame we weren't shown pvp yesterday. I'm using 1000 people as an example because you mentioned 1000 people. Also, the attackers choose the ambush ground, not the defenders.

    exactly. thats why the caravans need to be resilient and also have abilities that help. not every player can occupy the same spot. if you are hitting with your bow at max range, guess what? i cant stand behind you and hit it...i need to stand in front of you, or i need to get closer and hit it. projectiles can also be blocked by some tanks abilities.

    not everyone can hit the vechile at the same time from max range, also considering the caravan has a speed boost. the heal helps vs those who hit first. then you use the speed boost and get away, then those who are chasing you will get to you sooner than those who were trying ot attack from range, so you use the pushing ability.

    if the caravans didnt have these abilities, you just rush them using your mount, doesnt matter if a few people die, but you will still have a lot of people hitting the caravan and 1 shooting it.
  • Neurath wrote: »
    The state of the current caravans with the repulse and heals worries me because I want to trade with ships. I really don't want a ship with a repulse and heal...i hoped for proper naval combat. I hoped for actual PvP combat.

    dont worry there will be deathmatches too, just not during caravans xDDD
  • Chicago wrote: »
    Yes i can see bigger guilds doing caravan runs together later on down the track but without days notice noone is really going to setup a raid scale event to fight them, for reference it takes hours to run through the wow classic world, try doing it with a map 4x bigger just to make it on time for a caravan attack, its logistically just not going to happen and not worth the time investment either for the mats you would recieve for winning
    Chicago wrote: »
    Also for everyone other than the most elite guilds having 10-15 people defend your caravan is just not going to happen, just imagine someone in your guild sais " hey can anyone come help me with a quick caravan run" chances are you are probably a solid 45 minute run to even get the the spot they are at you are most likely not going to get that many people helping you
    lcyh1uie8aoi.png

    It took Steven ~30 minutes to cover the distance between THE NEAREST NODES. In other words, even if your friends are on the other side of the world, unless the caravan is doing the same track Steven did - you're catching/defending your caravan easily.

    Also, I'd hope people would be more logical and would ask for help before starting the caravan. Maybe even a day before, so that their defense is more assured. But even if they don't - the world is still small enough for mounted people to get to you within reasonable time.
  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Depraved wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    The whole point is the caravan should stop - its slow as fuck, even upgraded. Enemies can walk and batter the thing. Sounds excellent for tactics and strategy - not. There should be an ambush, the caravan should be halted, the player should be dismounted and there should be a zone like a duel zone for the attackers and defenders to duke it out. If the defenders leave (flee) the attackers win by default and vice versa. You know, an actual PvP game function - not a gimmick.

    it isnt a system so that 4 dudes gank 1 or 2 guys trying to transport their stuff and it is also not a team deathmatch game. its a large scale objective based pvp. its kinda like war of emperium in ro.

    also how big this area should be? what if you have 1000 players defending? area might have to be a mile long...then when u only have 10 players defending, a mile long area doesnt matter.

    and u cant make it a small area because you need to fit potentially hundreds of players.

    winning or losing in the caravan is about killing or protecting the vehicle, not killing the players. players can be killed and come back before the fight is over.

    im sure the caravan will be much faster once the caravanserai is fully upgraded and you buy the fastest parts. or maybe you want a slow but sturdy one ;3

    I'm aware of the large scale plans. I'm aware of the large scale fights. You're crazy if you think a repulse will save the caravan. Ranged classes will just nuke the caravan from range - especially if there's 1000 enemies. Sounds like a decent plan you have. The heal might save a few lives and buy a little time but focussed fire from 1000 ranged weapons (Melee also have ranged weapons) would soon destroy the caravan. Even if the defenders duked with the 1000 ranged you choose what you target. Its difficult to assess the full scale and parameters - I'm going off the old caravan system/pvp. Its a real shame we weren't shown pvp yesterday. I'm using 1000 people as an example because you mentioned 1000 people. Also, the attackers choose the ambush ground, not the defenders.

    exactly. thats why the caravans need to be resilient and also have abilities that help. not every player can occupy the same spot. if you are hitting with your bow at max range, guess what? i cant stand behind you and hit it...i need to stand in front of you, or i need to get closer and hit it. projectiles can also be blocked by some tanks abilities.

    not everyone can hit the vechile at the same time from max range, also considering the caravan has a speed boost. the heal helps vs those who hit first. then you use the speed boost and get away, then those who are chasing you will get to you sooner than those who were trying ot attack from range, so you use the pushing ability.

    if the caravans didnt have these abilities, you just rush them using your mount, doesnt matter if a few people die, but you will still have a lot of people hitting the caravan and 1 shooting it.

    In my mind, the attackers will be spread out. You don't need to be at maximum range, just beyond the boundaries of the repulse. You can dodged defenders, stack on rocks, stand near trees, stand on slopes. I just said the attackers choose the ground. Even if you had a speed boost you would be chased by mounts. I don't even think you can shoot/use abilitiies on mounts in ashes though. It makes no sense for the caravan to speed boost and leave the defenders behind. In my opinion, there should be an actual defence. You didn't try and outrun Indians in the wild west - you made wagon circles and fought for your lives.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • ok so how long it should it take for 100 people attacking a caravan to destroy it?
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