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Intrepid just introduced their first P2W item!

Hal mentioned that the components and buffs a caravan has, will be visible and visually change as you upgrade them. This is a real problem, if you consider, that a caravan skin will probably work like a costume for the coach. There is no way that they will make seperate component visuals for each caravan skin. Even disguising how many beasts of burdens you have, or how much cargo you transport would be an advantage.

A caravan skin will effectively be a camouflage suit, which gives you in game advantages and therefore a must have P2W item.
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Comments

  • facepalm-really.gif


    friends-matthew-perry.gif
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • HinotoriHinotori Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
  • Great comment. I think you misunderstood the intention of the post. I love the way, Hal described the way they want the component system and caravans to be visualized. I will use the caravan system and play the economy.

    I see a big problem with the caravan skins though.
  • if the the skins hide the visual components compared to the original then yes, in some ways I suppose they can provide an advantage because players wont know how upgraded they are to some degree other than the restriction of the skin to be used on certain tier levels.
  • GrappLrGrappLr Member, Alpha One
    People are facepalming, but this could very well be true.

    I thought about this as well, and my assumption is that the skins themselves are of a specific "tier" of caravan, and that the skin only corresponds to that said tier. And upgrades you put onto the caravan will also be viewable on said cosmetic (they might have their own visual versions of the upgrades).
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Maybe it is through Caravans that we will finally get a full clarification of their wishes and intentions relative to this sort of thing.

    I have someone who will happily ask this every month until she gets the 'Please stay tuned for more information about Caravan cosmetic items as we move closer to Alpha-2!'

    Can leave it to us.
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
    
  • Satire side, I think the community are being a bit unfair here to OP.

    It was actually mentioned in the video by Intrepid that people can make decisions of how they might target a group of caravans based on the visible look of the components on the Caravans.

    Now, skins affect not only caravans, but player armour as well as freeholds and mounts - with varying effect at that I guess. It's not unreasonable to at least raise it as a concern even if how much impact it'll have has yet to be seen.

    In theory if there were in-game earnable skins then it would remove the argument of it being strictly "p2w" since it would be achievable by anyone, but just offering a counter point to go against the grain a bit. Some people here are a bit scared to criticise Intrepid but they want the feedback and it ought to be given.
  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I think the cash shop items are a barrel of laughs. Each concept skews the actual substance of the game. Its not conducive to good management of the PvX style. Of course, a pet skin or mount skin doesn't really affect the game but the PvX systems are affected by Toon Constumes, Caravan Constumes and Special Skill FX. I realise none of this can actually be changed but in the grand scheme, the desire to provide for the players out of love has actually caused conflictions with the game parameters. Its one thing to have to learn 64 class combinations with multiple sources of augments but you then also have to hope you can identify 64 classes with Special Skill FX in a rare and unusual fashion. Difficult, difficult, difficult in a PvP sense. Oh well. We live and we learn.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • Neurath wrote: »
    I think the cash shop items are a barrel of laughs. Each concept skews the actual substance of the game. Its not conducive to good management of the PvX style. Of course, a pet skin or mount skin doesn't really affect the game but the PvX systems are affected by Toon Constumes, Caravan Constumes and Special Skill FX. I realise none of this can actually be changed but in the grand scheme, the desire to provide for the players out of love has actually caused conflictions with the game parameters. Its one thing to have to learn 64 class combinations with multiple sources of augments but you then also have to hope you can identify 64 classes with Special Skill FX in a rare and unusual fashion. Difficult, difficult, difficult in a PvP sense. Oh well. We live and we learn.

    I'm not really a fan of it either for similar reasons. Restricting the skins to those types of mounts would have been better in my opinion. This way a reptile cant dress up as a cat and still use reptile abilities in the genepool. Things may have changed and I hope they have. But you're right, it's their fault for marketing it that way because they got themselves into the contradictive mess.

    With the way animal husbandry is designed it would've made more sense with costume allowances.

    IE: snail + horse = use snail family tree and horse family tree skins

    I'm personally not a fan of the mounts. Their textures and animations are interesting and good quality.

    It just comes off as toy-boxish with all the costumes and mog imo
  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Neurath wrote: »
    I think the cash shop items are a barrel of laughs. Each concept skews the actual substance of the game. Its not conducive to good management of the PvX style. Of course, a pet skin or mount skin doesn't really affect the game but the PvX systems are affected by Toon Constumes, Caravan Constumes and Special Skill FX. I realise none of this can actually be changed but in the grand scheme, the desire to provide for the players out of love has actually caused conflictions with the game parameters. Its one thing to have to learn 64 class combinations with multiple sources of augments but you then also have to hope you can identify 64 classes with Special Skill FX in a rare and unusual fashion. Difficult, difficult, difficult in a PvP sense. Oh well. We live and we learn.

    I'm not really a fan of it either for similar reasons. Restricting the skins to those types of mounts would have been better in my opinion. This way a reptile cant dress up as a cat and still use reptile abilities in the genepool. Things may have changed and I hope they have. But you're right, it's their fault for marketing it that way because they got themselves into the contradictive mess.

    With the way animal husbandry is designed it would've made more sense with costume allowances.

    IE: snail + horse = use snail family tree and horse family tree skins

    I'm personally not a fan of the mounts. Their textures and animations are interesting and good quality.

    It just comes off as toy-boxish with all the costumes and mog imo

    Just imagine how the racial augments for the Angel Racial Skin or the Demon Racial Skin will also affect the 64 class combinations. There are so many augments I couldn't even tell you how to identify a Hard Counter at a glance. That's why I believe Hard Counters should be removed and balance be put into place instead. You don't need to learn about the intricate builds in balanced situations, only how to counter the intricate effects. Of course, tracking the class changes will also be difficult because the balance patch notes for 64 classes with some 3200 augmental changes or more will be a nightmare.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    I think the cash shop items are a barrel of laughs. Each concept skews the actual substance of the game. Its not conducive to good management of the PvX style. Of course, a pet skin or mount skin doesn't really affect the game but the PvX systems are affected by Toon Constumes, Caravan Constumes and Special Skill FX. I realise none of this can actually be changed but in the grand scheme, the desire to provide for the players out of love has actually caused conflictions with the game parameters. Its one thing to have to learn 64 class combinations with multiple sources of augments but you then also have to hope you can identify 64 classes with Special Skill FX in a rare and unusual fashion. Difficult, difficult, difficult in a PvP sense. Oh well. We live and we learn.

    I'm not really a fan of it either for similar reasons. Restricting the skins to those types of mounts would have been better in my opinion. This way a reptile cant dress up as a cat and still use reptile abilities in the genepool. Things may have changed and I hope they have. But you're right, it's their fault for marketing it that way because they got themselves into the contradictive mess.

    With the way animal husbandry is designed it would've made more sense with costume allowances.

    IE: snail + horse = use snail family tree and horse family tree skins

    I'm personally not a fan of the mounts. Their textures and animations are interesting and good quality.

    It just comes off as toy-boxish with all the costumes and mog imo

    Just imagine how the racial augments for the Angel Racial Skin or the Demon Racial Skin will also affect the 64 class combinations. There are so many augments I couldn't even tell you how to identify a Hard Counter at a glance. That's why I believe Hard Counters should be removed and balance be put into place instead. You don't need to learn about the intricate builds in balanced situations, only how to counter the intricate effects. Of course, tracking the class changes will also be difficult because the balance patch notes for 64 classes with some 3200 augmental changes or more will be a nightmare.

    Going off that i can definitely see it what you're getting at. I'm not a fan of dress up and illusion with pvp games to that degree. I believe in a more thematically practical approach especially for immersion.

    I would not have done the FOMO marketing (especially in hindsight). I would just sold access and a build your own package.

    IE:

    pay for testing access
    get x amount of game time
    pick x amount of cosmetics
    pick x amount of freehold skin
    pick x amount of caravan/boat skin
    pick x amount of mount skins

    Then just keep everything else available for purchase as an extra during development. Give the consumer options to decide what they may want as release time comes they may not want to go down the path they did 4 years before launch.


    oh well
  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    I think the cash shop items are a barrel of laughs. Each concept skews the actual substance of the game. Its not conducive to good management of the PvX style. Of course, a pet skin or mount skin doesn't really affect the game but the PvX systems are affected by Toon Constumes, Caravan Constumes and Special Skill FX. I realise none of this can actually be changed but in the grand scheme, the desire to provide for the players out of love has actually caused conflictions with the game parameters. Its one thing to have to learn 64 class combinations with multiple sources of augments but you then also have to hope you can identify 64 classes with Special Skill FX in a rare and unusual fashion. Difficult, difficult, difficult in a PvP sense. Oh well. We live and we learn.

    I'm not really a fan of it either for similar reasons. Restricting the skins to those types of mounts would have been better in my opinion. This way a reptile cant dress up as a cat and still use reptile abilities in the genepool. Things may have changed and I hope they have. But you're right, it's their fault for marketing it that way because they got themselves into the contradictive mess.

    With the way animal husbandry is designed it would've made more sense with costume allowances.

    IE: snail + horse = use snail family tree and horse family tree skins

    I'm personally not a fan of the mounts. Their textures and animations are interesting and good quality.

    It just comes off as toy-boxish with all the costumes and mog imo

    Just imagine how the racial augments for the Angel Racial Skin or the Demon Racial Skin will also affect the 64 class combinations. There are so many augments I couldn't even tell you how to identify a Hard Counter at a glance. That's why I believe Hard Counters should be removed and balance be put into place instead. You don't need to learn about the intricate builds in balanced situations, only how to counter the intricate effects. Of course, tracking the class changes will also be difficult because the balance patch notes for 64 classes with some 3200 augmental changes or more will be a nightmare.

    Going off that i can definitely see it what you're getting at. I'm not a fan of dress up and illusion with pvp games to that degree. I believe in a more thematically practical approach especially for immersion.

    I would not have done the FOMO marketing (especially in hindsight). I would just sold access and a build your own package.

    IE:

    pay for testing access
    get x amount of game time
    pick x amount of cosmetics
    pick x amount of freehold skin
    pick x amount of caravan/boat skin
    pick x amount of mount skins

    Then just keep everything else available for purchase as an extra during development. Give the consumer options to decide what they may want as release time comes they may not want to go down the path they did 4 years before launch.


    oh well

    Its not so much the 'dress up' or the fact we can use any weapon. Its the sheer amount of augments on the base skills. Augments can change a skill completely...according to the recent Q+A (Check Vaknar's answer on the Q+A thread if you want). So, how unidentifiable can you make a build after the initial decision of how to build?
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • If you're gonna use such a click-baity troll Title for your thread, don't expect much in the way of answers. ;)
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • edited November 2023
    Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    I think the cash shop items are a barrel of laughs. Each concept skews the actual substance of the game. Its not conducive to good management of the PvX style. Of course, a pet skin or mount skin doesn't really affect the game but the PvX systems are affected by Toon Constumes, Caravan Constumes and Special Skill FX. I realise none of this can actually be changed but in the grand scheme, the desire to provide for the players out of love has actually caused conflictions with the game parameters. Its one thing to have to learn 64 class combinations with multiple sources of augments but you then also have to hope you can identify 64 classes with Special Skill FX in a rare and unusual fashion. Difficult, difficult, difficult in a PvP sense. Oh well. We live and we learn.

    I'm not really a fan of it either for similar reasons. Restricting the skins to those types of mounts would have been better in my opinion. This way a reptile cant dress up as a cat and still use reptile abilities in the genepool. Things may have changed and I hope they have. But you're right, it's their fault for marketing it that way because they got themselves into the contradictive mess.

    With the way animal husbandry is designed it would've made more sense with costume allowances.

    IE: snail + horse = use snail family tree and horse family tree skins

    I'm personally not a fan of the mounts. Their textures and animations are interesting and good quality.

    It just comes off as toy-boxish with all the costumes and mog imo

    Just imagine how the racial augments for the Angel Racial Skin or the Demon Racial Skin will also affect the 64 class combinations. There are so many augments I couldn't even tell you how to identify a Hard Counter at a glance. That's why I believe Hard Counters should be removed and balance be put into place instead. You don't need to learn about the intricate builds in balanced situations, only how to counter the intricate effects. Of course, tracking the class changes will also be difficult because the balance patch notes for 64 classes with some 3200 augmental changes or more will be a nightmare.

    Going off that i can definitely see it what you're getting at. I'm not a fan of dress up and illusion with pvp games to that degree. I believe in a more thematically practical approach especially for immersion.

    I would not have done the FOMO marketing (especially in hindsight). I would just sold access and a build your own package.

    IE:

    pay for testing access
    get x amount of game time
    pick x amount of cosmetics
    pick x amount of freehold skin
    pick x amount of caravan/boat skin
    pick x amount of mount skins

    Then just keep everything else available for purchase as an extra during development. Give the consumer options to decide what they may want as release time comes they may not want to go down the path they did 4 years before launch.


    oh well

    Its not so much the 'dress up' or the fact we can use any weapon. Its the sheer amount of augments on the base skills. Augments can change a skill completely...according to the recent Q+A (Check Vaknar's answer on the Q+A thread if you want). So, how unidentifiable can you make a build after the initial decision of how to build?

    I was just throwing it out there as it's relevant.

    I know what you're saying lol. Illusive mystery as you cant evaluate anything by appearance until you actually see its actions. Should not be that hard to track in small group play but if you're expecting large scale battles to be balanced in a linear degree it wont be. There's a turning point for player numbers in pvp where it's just chaotic and essentially uncontrollable with outcomes. You could get steam rolled out of no where by factors like players focus firing, siege weapons etc. I've put many hours into games where you can see hundreds of people in the same area attacking each other organised and not lol.
  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    I think the cash shop items are a barrel of laughs. Each concept skews the actual substance of the game. Its not conducive to good management of the PvX style. Of course, a pet skin or mount skin doesn't really affect the game but the PvX systems are affected by Toon Constumes, Caravan Constumes and Special Skill FX. I realise none of this can actually be changed but in the grand scheme, the desire to provide for the players out of love has actually caused conflictions with the game parameters. Its one thing to have to learn 64 class combinations with multiple sources of augments but you then also have to hope you can identify 64 classes with Special Skill FX in a rare and unusual fashion. Difficult, difficult, difficult in a PvP sense. Oh well. We live and we learn.

    I'm not really a fan of it either for similar reasons. Restricting the skins to those types of mounts would have been better in my opinion. This way a reptile cant dress up as a cat and still use reptile abilities in the genepool. Things may have changed and I hope they have. But you're right, it's their fault for marketing it that way because they got themselves into the contradictive mess.

    With the way animal husbandry is designed it would've made more sense with costume allowances.

    IE: snail + horse = use snail family tree and horse family tree skins

    I'm personally not a fan of the mounts. Their textures and animations are interesting and good quality.

    It just comes off as toy-boxish with all the costumes and mog imo

    Just imagine how the racial augments for the Angel Racial Skin or the Demon Racial Skin will also affect the 64 class combinations. There are so many augments I couldn't even tell you how to identify a Hard Counter at a glance. That's why I believe Hard Counters should be removed and balance be put into place instead. You don't need to learn about the intricate builds in balanced situations, only how to counter the intricate effects. Of course, tracking the class changes will also be difficult because the balance patch notes for 64 classes with some 3200 augmental changes or more will be a nightmare.

    Going off that i can definitely see it what you're getting at. I'm not a fan of dress up and illusion with pvp games to that degree. I believe in a more thematically practical approach especially for immersion.

    I would not have done the FOMO marketing (especially in hindsight). I would just sold access and a build your own package.

    IE:

    pay for testing access
    get x amount of game time
    pick x amount of cosmetics
    pick x amount of freehold skin
    pick x amount of caravan/boat skin
    pick x amount of mount skins

    Then just keep everything else available for purchase as an extra during development. Give the consumer options to decide what they may want as release time comes they may not want to go down the path they did 4 years before launch.


    oh well

    Its not so much the 'dress up' or the fact we can use any weapon. Its the sheer amount of augments on the base skills. Augments can change a skill completely...according to the recent Q+A (Check Vaknar's answer on the Q+A thread if you want). So, how unidentifiable can you make a build after the initial decision of how to build?

    I was just throwing it out there as it's relevant.

    I know what you're saying lol. Illusive mystery as you cant evaluate anything by appearance until you actually see its actions. Should not be that hard to track in small group play but if you're expecting large scale battles to be balanced in a linear degree it wont be. There's a turning point for player numbers in pvp where it's just chaotic and essentially uncontrollable with outcomes. You could get steam rolled out of no where by factors like players focus firing, siege weapons etc. I've put many hours into games where you can see hundreds of people in the same area attacking each other organised and not lol.

    Yeah. Stealth builds will exist. I will make a stealth build. No meta build for myself lol. Metas will be difficult to form I believe anyway. It all comes down to theory crafting, testing and practice with the skills to find the perfect build for one's play style. It will be rather epic and terrifying to face at the same time lol.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    I think the cash shop items are a barrel of laughs. Each concept skews the actual substance of the game. Its not conducive to good management of the PvX style. Of course, a pet skin or mount skin doesn't really affect the game but the PvX systems are affected by Toon Constumes, Caravan Constumes and Special Skill FX. I realise none of this can actually be changed but in the grand scheme, the desire to provide for the players out of love has actually caused conflictions with the game parameters. Its one thing to have to learn 64 class combinations with multiple sources of augments but you then also have to hope you can identify 64 classes with Special Skill FX in a rare and unusual fashion. Difficult, difficult, difficult in a PvP sense. Oh well. We live and we learn.

    I'm not really a fan of it either for similar reasons. Restricting the skins to those types of mounts would have been better in my opinion. This way a reptile cant dress up as a cat and still use reptile abilities in the genepool. Things may have changed and I hope they have. But you're right, it's their fault for marketing it that way because they got themselves into the contradictive mess.

    With the way animal husbandry is designed it would've made more sense with costume allowances.

    IE: snail + horse = use snail family tree and horse family tree skins

    I'm personally not a fan of the mounts. Their textures and animations are interesting and good quality.

    It just comes off as toy-boxish with all the costumes and mog imo

    Just imagine how the racial augments for the Angel Racial Skin or the Demon Racial Skin will also affect the 64 class combinations. There are so many augments I couldn't even tell you how to identify a Hard Counter at a glance. That's why I believe Hard Counters should be removed and balance be put into place instead. You don't need to learn about the intricate builds in balanced situations, only how to counter the intricate effects. Of course, tracking the class changes will also be difficult because the balance patch notes for 64 classes with some 3200 augmental changes or more will be a nightmare.

    Going off that i can definitely see it what you're getting at. I'm not a fan of dress up and illusion with pvp games to that degree. I believe in a more thematically practical approach especially for immersion.

    I would not have done the FOMO marketing (especially in hindsight). I would just sold access and a build your own package.

    IE:

    pay for testing access
    get x amount of game time
    pick x amount of cosmetics
    pick x amount of freehold skin
    pick x amount of caravan/boat skin
    pick x amount of mount skins

    Then just keep everything else available for purchase as an extra during development. Give the consumer options to decide what they may want as release time comes they may not want to go down the path they did 4 years before launch.


    oh well

    Its not so much the 'dress up' or the fact we can use any weapon. Its the sheer amount of augments on the base skills. Augments can change a skill completely...according to the recent Q+A (Check Vaknar's answer on the Q+A thread if you want). So, how unidentifiable can you make a build after the initial decision of how to build?

    I was just throwing it out there as it's relevant.

    I know what you're saying lol. Illusive mystery as you cant evaluate anything by appearance until you actually see its actions. Should not be that hard to track in small group play but if you're expecting large scale battles to be balanced in a linear degree it wont be. There's a turning point for player numbers in pvp where it's just chaotic and essentially uncontrollable with outcomes. You could get steam rolled out of no where by factors like players focus firing, siege weapons etc. I've put many hours into games where you can see hundreds of people in the same area attacking each other organised and not lol.

    Yeah. Stealth builds will exist. I will make a stealth build. No meta build for myself lol. Metas will be difficult to form I believe anyway. It all comes down to theory crafting, testing and practice with the skills to find the perfect build for one's play style. It will be rather epic and terrifying to face at the same time lol.

    sure, stealth can play a role in it.

    lay out of environment/scenario, micro/macro management etc
  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    I think the cash shop items are a barrel of laughs. Each concept skews the actual substance of the game. Its not conducive to good management of the PvX style. Of course, a pet skin or mount skin doesn't really affect the game but the PvX systems are affected by Toon Constumes, Caravan Constumes and Special Skill FX. I realise none of this can actually be changed but in the grand scheme, the desire to provide for the players out of love has actually caused conflictions with the game parameters. Its one thing to have to learn 64 class combinations with multiple sources of augments but you then also have to hope you can identify 64 classes with Special Skill FX in a rare and unusual fashion. Difficult, difficult, difficult in a PvP sense. Oh well. We live and we learn.

    I'm not really a fan of it either for similar reasons. Restricting the skins to those types of mounts would have been better in my opinion. This way a reptile cant dress up as a cat and still use reptile abilities in the genepool. Things may have changed and I hope they have. But you're right, it's their fault for marketing it that way because they got themselves into the contradictive mess.

    With the way animal husbandry is designed it would've made more sense with costume allowances.

    IE: snail + horse = use snail family tree and horse family tree skins

    I'm personally not a fan of the mounts. Their textures and animations are interesting and good quality.

    It just comes off as toy-boxish with all the costumes and mog imo

    Just imagine how the racial augments for the Angel Racial Skin or the Demon Racial Skin will also affect the 64 class combinations. There are so many augments I couldn't even tell you how to identify a Hard Counter at a glance. That's why I believe Hard Counters should be removed and balance be put into place instead. You don't need to learn about the intricate builds in balanced situations, only how to counter the intricate effects. Of course, tracking the class changes will also be difficult because the balance patch notes for 64 classes with some 3200 augmental changes or more will be a nightmare.

    Going off that i can definitely see it what you're getting at. I'm not a fan of dress up and illusion with pvp games to that degree. I believe in a more thematically practical approach especially for immersion.

    I would not have done the FOMO marketing (especially in hindsight). I would just sold access and a build your own package.

    IE:

    pay for testing access
    get x amount of game time
    pick x amount of cosmetics
    pick x amount of freehold skin
    pick x amount of caravan/boat skin
    pick x amount of mount skins

    Then just keep everything else available for purchase as an extra during development. Give the consumer options to decide what they may want as release time comes they may not want to go down the path they did 4 years before launch.


    oh well

    Its not so much the 'dress up' or the fact we can use any weapon. Its the sheer amount of augments on the base skills. Augments can change a skill completely...according to the recent Q+A (Check Vaknar's answer on the Q+A thread if you want). So, how unidentifiable can you make a build after the initial decision of how to build?

    I was just throwing it out there as it's relevant.

    I know what you're saying lol. Illusive mystery as you cant evaluate anything by appearance until you actually see its actions. Should not be that hard to track in small group play but if you're expecting large scale battles to be balanced in a linear degree it wont be. There's a turning point for player numbers in pvp where it's just chaotic and essentially uncontrollable with outcomes. You could get steam rolled out of no where by factors like players focus firing, siege weapons etc. I've put many hours into games where you can see hundreds of people in the same area attacking each other organised and not lol.

    Yeah. Stealth builds will exist. I will make a stealth build. No meta build for myself lol. Metas will be difficult to form I believe anyway. It all comes down to theory crafting, testing and practice with the skills to find the perfect build for one's play style. It will be rather epic and terrifying to face at the same time lol.

    sure, stealth can play a role in it.

    lay out of environment/scenario, micro/macro management etc

    Yeah, my time will be spent learning about all the augment sources in A2. I imagine each Racial System will have a Metro in A2 to test the Metro - at that time i'll test Vaelune Racials ;)
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • when can I buy???
  • Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    I think the cash shop items are a barrel of laughs. Each concept skews the actual substance of the game. Its not conducive to good management of the PvX style. Of course, a pet skin or mount skin doesn't really affect the game but the PvX systems are affected by Toon Constumes, Caravan Constumes and Special Skill FX. I realise none of this can actually be changed but in the grand scheme, the desire to provide for the players out of love has actually caused conflictions with the game parameters. Its one thing to have to learn 64 class combinations with multiple sources of augments but you then also have to hope you can identify 64 classes with Special Skill FX in a rare and unusual fashion. Difficult, difficult, difficult in a PvP sense. Oh well. We live and we learn.

    I'm not really a fan of it either for similar reasons. Restricting the skins to those types of mounts would have been better in my opinion. This way a reptile cant dress up as a cat and still use reptile abilities in the genepool. Things may have changed and I hope they have. But you're right, it's their fault for marketing it that way because they got themselves into the contradictive mess.

    With the way animal husbandry is designed it would've made more sense with costume allowances.

    IE: snail + horse = use snail family tree and horse family tree skins

    I'm personally not a fan of the mounts. Their textures and animations are interesting and good quality.

    It just comes off as toy-boxish with all the costumes and mog imo

    Just imagine how the racial augments for the Angel Racial Skin or the Demon Racial Skin will also affect the 64 class combinations. There are so many augments I couldn't even tell you how to identify a Hard Counter at a glance. That's why I believe Hard Counters should be removed and balance be put into place instead. You don't need to learn about the intricate builds in balanced situations, only how to counter the intricate effects. Of course, tracking the class changes will also be difficult because the balance patch notes for 64 classes with some 3200 augmental changes or more will be a nightmare.

    Going off that i can definitely see it what you're getting at. I'm not a fan of dress up and illusion with pvp games to that degree. I believe in a more thematically practical approach especially for immersion.

    I would not have done the FOMO marketing (especially in hindsight). I would just sold access and a build your own package.

    IE:

    pay for testing access
    get x amount of game time
    pick x amount of cosmetics
    pick x amount of freehold skin
    pick x amount of caravan/boat skin
    pick x amount of mount skins

    Then just keep everything else available for purchase as an extra during development. Give the consumer options to decide what they may want as release time comes they may not want to go down the path they did 4 years before launch.


    oh well

    Its not so much the 'dress up' or the fact we can use any weapon. Its the sheer amount of augments on the base skills. Augments can change a skill completely...according to the recent Q+A (Check Vaknar's answer on the Q+A thread if you want). So, how unidentifiable can you make a build after the initial decision of how to build?

    I was just throwing it out there as it's relevant.

    I know what you're saying lol. Illusive mystery as you cant evaluate anything by appearance until you actually see its actions. Should not be that hard to track in small group play but if you're expecting large scale battles to be balanced in a linear degree it wont be. There's a turning point for player numbers in pvp where it's just chaotic and essentially uncontrollable with outcomes. You could get steam rolled out of no where by factors like players focus firing, siege weapons etc. I've put many hours into games where you can see hundreds of people in the same area attacking each other organised and not lol.

    Yeah. Stealth builds will exist. I will make a stealth build. No meta build for myself lol. Metas will be difficult to form I believe anyway. It all comes down to theory crafting, testing and practice with the skills to find the perfect build for one's play style. It will be rather epic and terrifying to face at the same time lol.

    sure, stealth can play a role in it.

    lay out of environment/scenario, micro/macro management etc

    Yeah, my time will be spent learning about all the augment sources in A2. I imagine each Racial System will have a Metro in A2 to test the Metro - at that time i'll test Vaelune Racials ;)

    It's quite possible. I imagine for testing purposes if they didn't they would just have the augments available for each as they're implemented.

    anyways :smile: have fun on the vaelune deep dive when it happens haha
  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    I think the cash shop items are a barrel of laughs. Each concept skews the actual substance of the game. Its not conducive to good management of the PvX style. Of course, a pet skin or mount skin doesn't really affect the game but the PvX systems are affected by Toon Constumes, Caravan Constumes and Special Skill FX. I realise none of this can actually be changed but in the grand scheme, the desire to provide for the players out of love has actually caused conflictions with the game parameters. Its one thing to have to learn 64 class combinations with multiple sources of augments but you then also have to hope you can identify 64 classes with Special Skill FX in a rare and unusual fashion. Difficult, difficult, difficult in a PvP sense. Oh well. We live and we learn.

    I'm not really a fan of it either for similar reasons. Restricting the skins to those types of mounts would have been better in my opinion. This way a reptile cant dress up as a cat and still use reptile abilities in the genepool. Things may have changed and I hope they have. But you're right, it's their fault for marketing it that way because they got themselves into the contradictive mess.

    With the way animal husbandry is designed it would've made more sense with costume allowances.

    IE: snail + horse = use snail family tree and horse family tree skins

    I'm personally not a fan of the mounts. Their textures and animations are interesting and good quality.

    It just comes off as toy-boxish with all the costumes and mog imo

    Just imagine how the racial augments for the Angel Racial Skin or the Demon Racial Skin will also affect the 64 class combinations. There are so many augments I couldn't even tell you how to identify a Hard Counter at a glance. That's why I believe Hard Counters should be removed and balance be put into place instead. You don't need to learn about the intricate builds in balanced situations, only how to counter the intricate effects. Of course, tracking the class changes will also be difficult because the balance patch notes for 64 classes with some 3200 augmental changes or more will be a nightmare.

    Going off that i can definitely see it what you're getting at. I'm not a fan of dress up and illusion with pvp games to that degree. I believe in a more thematically practical approach especially for immersion.

    I would not have done the FOMO marketing (especially in hindsight). I would just sold access and a build your own package.

    IE:

    pay for testing access
    get x amount of game time
    pick x amount of cosmetics
    pick x amount of freehold skin
    pick x amount of caravan/boat skin
    pick x amount of mount skins

    Then just keep everything else available for purchase as an extra during development. Give the consumer options to decide what they may want as release time comes they may not want to go down the path they did 4 years before launch.


    oh well

    Its not so much the 'dress up' or the fact we can use any weapon. Its the sheer amount of augments on the base skills. Augments can change a skill completely...according to the recent Q+A (Check Vaknar's answer on the Q+A thread if you want). So, how unidentifiable can you make a build after the initial decision of how to build?

    I was just throwing it out there as it's relevant.

    I know what you're saying lol. Illusive mystery as you cant evaluate anything by appearance until you actually see its actions. Should not be that hard to track in small group play but if you're expecting large scale battles to be balanced in a linear degree it wont be. There's a turning point for player numbers in pvp where it's just chaotic and essentially uncontrollable with outcomes. You could get steam rolled out of no where by factors like players focus firing, siege weapons etc. I've put many hours into games where you can see hundreds of people in the same area attacking each other organised and not lol.

    Yeah. Stealth builds will exist. I will make a stealth build. No meta build for myself lol. Metas will be difficult to form I believe anyway. It all comes down to theory crafting, testing and practice with the skills to find the perfect build for one's play style. It will be rather epic and terrifying to face at the same time lol.

    sure, stealth can play a role in it.

    lay out of environment/scenario, micro/macro management etc

    Yeah, my time will be spent learning about all the augment sources in A2. I imagine each Racial System will have a Metro in A2 to test the Metro - at that time i'll test Vaelune Racials ;)

    It's quite possible. I imagine for testing purposes if they didn't they would just have the augments available for each as they're implemented.

    anyways :smile: have fun on the vaelune deep dive when it happens haha

    yeah very true. cant wait for the loops :)
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • Kubitz2Kubitz2 Member
    edited November 2023
    ... I suppose they can provide an advantage because players wont know how upgraded they are to some degree ...
    Exactly. They mentioned that you can target specific components, the driver or even the horses(?). Information on the customization would bring a clear advantage regarding what to target first.
    ... the restriction of the skin to be used on certain tier levels.
    Which is weird in itself. Why would you ever use anything but your max tier. I'd be OK with only low tier caravans having "costumes" though. Then there would be no disguising at max level.
    AidanKD wrote: »
    ...In theory if there were in-game earnable skins then it would remove the argument of it being strictly "p2w" since it would be achievable by anyone...
    That would negate all the work they put into the visualizations of the default caravans though. I really like what they did there. But....I wouldn't use the default with the nice component visualizations, if a skin wouldn't give away information on cargo, components and buffs. I'd use a bulky skin with on horse on a fast, low armor, two horse caravan and a fast and light looking skin on a high armor, slow wagon.

    Showing the components and buffs below the name tag would be a solution. Would be immersion breaking and confusing with five components and five skill slots plus buffs from other sources though. Also I think, that's not the way they want to go.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited November 2023
    Meh... how do you survive in the real world?

    It takes only a few seconds to see how many people escort the damn thing, how fast it moves, how much dmg it takes.

    You shouldnt accuse IS that they have p2w based on how challenged you feel by something as silly as this.

    Nothing of value was said in the OP and I doubt anyone else will say.
  • Kubitz2Kubitz2 Member
    edited November 2023
    Meh... how do you survive in the real world?

    It takes only a few seconds to see how many people escort the damn thing, how fast it moves, how much dmg it takes.

    You shouldnt accuse IS that they have p2w based on how challenged you feel by something as silly as this.

    Nothing of value was said in the OP and I doubt anyone else will say.

    Meh...how do you survive in the real world, if you're so thin skinned. It only takes a second to to gather information on your enemy. As we're talking about PvP here, every second counts. If you deny that, you clearly have never played a PvP game. That's the point, hiding info matters. You shouldn't accuse me of being challenged, while being clearly triggered by the p-word. If you think, your comment added anything of value to the thread....well....what can I say.

    I know it's not the biggest deal in the world, but I do think I have given my reasoning, why I think, that if caravan skins hide the amount of cargo, the kind of components and their tier, the skills/buffs and/or the amount of horses they will give you an advantage in game. We don't know if that matters, or how big it is but it makes the skin not purely cosmetic anymore.

    I am concerned about that, because I don't want any P2W in AoC and I trust Steven's word on that. It is a short and slippery slope from a caravan skin, that hides some infos to a BDO gilly suit. Purely cosmetic, right?
  • People pulling at hairs to try to find ways to make things a big deal, what is new lmao. Only argument you can make is how valuable it is to attack based on whatever indicators and they can have things show in ui information if they want, if it isn't clear enough.
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    People pulling at hairs to try to find ways to make things a big deal, what is new lmao. Only argument you can make is how valuable it is to attack based on whatever indicators and they can have things show in ui information if they want, if it isn't clear enough.

    Just to be clear... you don't think that argument is important?

    Just saving OP some time, in case they 'haven't met you yet'.
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
    
  • I don't think it's a big deal yet, but I do think it is concerning and should be addressed. And no, I didn't see any UI indicators. I just want them to stay true to their word, that there will be no cash shop items that have an impact on gameplay.
  • Transmogs are bad?
    jc4gn62ua3yq.gif
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    Hhahahhahaa what is this guy saying?
    Are you comparing a caravan to a player?
    TTK? Ability to fight back? It's a caravan.... relax, pvp pro.
  • Yes. A caravan is owned by a player. And I'm saying that the amount of info you have on your enemy influences your decision making. I'm not talking about one guy attacking one coach. I'm talking about 20-30 bandits attacking a 5-10 coach caravan. If you have ever played medium to big scale PvP, you'll know, that the shotcaller often has to make his decisions on the battlefield info he can gather at a glance. (Whooaaaa...getting really excited here).

    Now imagine, he sees that default caravan, that has the big healing skill bauble dangling from his roof. Decision: Take down that coach first, before we engage the defenders.

    Or he sees that that coach has the blue glowing repulse thingy, that throws melees far away. Decision: Melees distract the defenders, while range destroys the coach. Oh and range has to attack from the front, so they are thrown ahead if they get caught by the pulse.

    Or he sees a default coach with all the high tier components, that make it faster. Decision: We got this battle, but that coach might get away, so kill it first.

    I could go on. I'm not saying that hiding some info would change the overall outcome of the battle, but it might make the difference for that poor guy, that didn't have the money to buy that skin and the shotcaller had more info on him than on the others. He sadly died and lost all his wares, before the reinforcement could arrive.
  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    What I don't understand is what happens if the attackers bring another Caravan and block the caravan with a caravan. We know caravans will knock mounts and people out of the way and that a caravan has collision system superiority but what wins caravan vs caravan?
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
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