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Intrepid just introduced their first P2W item!

2

Comments

  • TyranthraxusTyranthraxus Member, Alpha Two
    The OP isn't completely without merit; If the Cash Shop items genuinely *do* mask the appearance of the Caravan, then perhaps it's an issue to address.

    HOWEVER!

    As with player-armor, there will likely be buffs that you can see, when targeting the Caravan wagon. Noobs always assume that visual-identification is best, because it sounds good, on-paper - but in the heat and chaos of an active fight, it's actually quite hard to make reliable visual identifications.

    Also? We don't know for certain that the customizations *won't* be specifically made, for each "mask" applicable to a Caravan. It sounds like a LOT of work - but at the same time, it's to-be a major element of the AoC gameplay, so it *is* possible that they'll include customizations across-the-board, for the Caravan wagons. As SS mentions in the livestream, their staff is a LOT bigger now, than it was a few years ago, when we got the very first look.

    I suspect that the masks will only be applicable to certain levels of the Caravan wagons, though; If it's not powerful enough, then default appearance will probably be more the norm.



  • Neurath wrote: »
    What I don't understand is what happens if the attackers bring another Caravan and block the caravan with a caravan. We know caravans will knock mounts and people out of the way and that a caravan has collision system superiority but what wins caravan vs caravan?

    I think they mentioned that caravans dont have collision with other caravans.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Neurath wrote: »
    What I don't understand is what happens if the attackers bring another Caravan and block the caravan with a caravan. We know caravans will knock mounts and people out of the way and that a caravan has collision system superiority but what wins caravan vs caravan?

    I think they mentioned that caravans dont have collision with other caravans.

    Okay thank you.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    What I don't understand is what happens if the attackers bring another Caravan and block the caravan with a caravan. We know caravans will knock mounts and people out of the way and that a caravan has collision system superiority but what wins caravan vs caravan?

    I think they mentioned that caravans dont have collision with other caravans.

    Okay thank you.

    i'll try to the find the time for the exact details. but it may just be like caravans wont have collision with other caravans while on roads?
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    What I don't understand is what happens if the attackers bring another Caravan and block the caravan with a caravan. We know caravans will knock mounts and people out of the way and that a caravan has collision system superiority but what wins caravan vs caravan?

    I think they mentioned that caravans dont have collision with other caravans.

    Okay thank you.

    i'll try to the find the time for the exact details. but it may just be like caravans wont have collision with other caravans while on roads?

    Might make sense in terms of traffic...
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • Taleof2CitiesTaleof2Cities Member, Alpha Two
    edited November 2023
    Kubitz2 wrote: »
    It only takes a second to to gather information on your enemy. As we're talking about PvP here, every second counts. If you deny that, you clearly have never played a PvP game. That's the point, hiding info matters.

    Intrepid already has plans for visual “threat assessment” UI tools for enemy player characters … regardless of what that character is wearing.

    Not only is it not relevant to a P2W discussion … there are other threads on the subject (if you do a Forums search).
  • Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    What I don't understand is what happens if the attackers bring another Caravan and block the caravan with a caravan. We know caravans will knock mounts and people out of the way and that a caravan has collision system superiority but what wins caravan vs caravan?

    I think they mentioned that caravans dont have collision with other caravans.

    Okay thank you.

    i'll try to the find the time for the exact details. but it may just be like caravans wont have collision with other caravans while on roads?

    Might make sense in terms of traffic...

    If you have several in an event, I don't see why they wouldn't have collision though, other wise players would just stack them and stack the abilities lol. I imagine the wreckage from the destroyed caravan is collision as well.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    What I don't understand is what happens if the attackers bring another Caravan and block the caravan with a caravan. We know caravans will knock mounts and people out of the way and that a caravan has collision system superiority but what wins caravan vs caravan?

    I think they mentioned that caravans dont have collision with other caravans.

    Okay thank you.

    i'll try to the find the time for the exact details. but it may just be like caravans wont have collision with other caravans while on roads?

    Might make sense in terms of traffic...

    If you have several in an event, I don't see why they wouldn't have collision though, other wise players would just stack them and stack the abilities lol. I imagine the wreckage from the destroyed caravan is collision as well.

    yeah, that's my point. I thought everything has collision...if two ships smash into each other i hope damage occurs to one or both ships unless one is a trireme lol.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • edited November 2023
    Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    What I don't understand is what happens if the attackers bring another Caravan and block the caravan with a caravan. We know caravans will knock mounts and people out of the way and that a caravan has collision system superiority but what wins caravan vs caravan?

    I think they mentioned that caravans dont have collision with other caravans.

    Okay thank you.

    i'll try to the find the time for the exact details. but it may just be like caravans wont have collision with other caravans while on roads?

    Might make sense in terms of traffic...

    If you have several in an event, I don't see why they wouldn't have collision though, other wise players would just stack them and stack the abilities lol. I imagine the wreckage from the destroyed caravan is collision as well.

    yeah, that's my point. I thought everything has collision...if two ships smash into each other i hope damage occurs to one or both ships unless one is a trireme lol.

    That would be pretty cool. I don't see the sea having a shared road for a buff lol. I imagine trolls would make ramming fleets though but who knows especially considering if naval ships are expensive.

    EDIT:

    maybe the smaller ships wont be able to ram as efficient. But could be interesting with naval blockades as well.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    What I don't understand is what happens if the attackers bring another Caravan and block the caravan with a caravan. We know caravans will knock mounts and people out of the way and that a caravan has collision system superiority but what wins caravan vs caravan?

    I think they mentioned that caravans dont have collision with other caravans.

    Okay thank you.

    i'll try to the find the time for the exact details. but it may just be like caravans wont have collision with other caravans while on roads?

    Might make sense in terms of traffic...

    If you have several in an event, I don't see why they wouldn't have collision though, other wise players would just stack them and stack the abilities lol. I imagine the wreckage from the destroyed caravan is collision as well.

    yeah, that's my point. I thought everything has collision...if two ships smash into each other i hope damage occurs to one or both ships unless one is a trireme lol.

    That would be pretty cool. I don't see the sea having a shared road for a buff lol. I imagine trolls would make ramming fleets though but who knows especially considering if naval ships are expensive.

    EDIT:

    maybe the smaller ships wont be able to ram as efficient. But could be interesting with naval blockades as well.

    I used to play a star trek game. I think it was called 'Fleet Commander' but I could be mistaken. In the PvP scenarios you'd select ships to duel other players with. I always chose the Klingon Stealth Ship or the Federation Transport Ship and would just ram the enemy ships until we both blew up. Was terrific times.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    What I don't understand is what happens if the attackers bring another Caravan and block the caravan with a caravan. We know caravans will knock mounts and people out of the way and that a caravan has collision system superiority but what wins caravan vs caravan?

    I think they mentioned that caravans dont have collision with other caravans.

    Okay thank you.

    i'll try to the find the time for the exact details. but it may just be like caravans wont have collision with other caravans while on roads?

    Might make sense in terms of traffic...

    If you have several in an event, I don't see why they wouldn't have collision though, other wise players would just stack them and stack the abilities lol. I imagine the wreckage from the destroyed caravan is collision as well.

    yeah, that's my point. I thought everything has collision...if two ships smash into each other i hope damage occurs to one or both ships unless one is a trireme lol.

    That would be pretty cool. I don't see the sea having a shared road for a buff lol. I imagine trolls would make ramming fleets though but who knows especially considering if naval ships are expensive.

    EDIT:

    maybe the smaller ships wont be able to ram as efficient. But could be interesting with naval blockades as well.

    I used to play a star trek game. I think it was called 'Fleet Commander' but I could be mistaken. In the PvP scenarios you'd select ships to duel other players with. I always chose the Klingon Stealth Ship or the Federation Transport Ship and would just ram the enemy ships until we both blew up. Was terrific times.

    lol, that's the spirit. all part of the experience :smile:
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Azherae wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    People pulling at hairs to try to find ways to make things a big deal, what is new lmao. Only argument you can make is how valuable it is to attack based on whatever indicators and they can have things show in ui information if they want, if it isn't clear enough.

    Just to be clear... you don't think that argument is important?

    Just saving OP some time, in case they 'haven't met you yet'.

    He is exaggerating a issue to try to call it pay to win. The same issue (to him it isn't to me atm) that can occur if one earns cosmetics in game and does the same thing.
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Azherae wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    People pulling at hairs to try to find ways to make things a big deal, what is new lmao. Only argument you can make is how valuable it is to attack based on whatever indicators and they can have things show in ui information if they want, if it isn't clear enough.

    Just to be clear... you don't think that argument is important?

    Just saving OP some time, in case they 'haven't met you yet'.

    He is exaggerating a issue to try to call it pay to win. The same issue (to him it isn't to me atm) that can occur if one earns cosmetics in game and does the same thing.

    I am no match for your Mithridacy Skill today...
    ♪ One Gummy Fish, two Gummy Fish, Red Gummy Fish, Blue Gummy Fish
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Kubitz2 wrote: »
    Yes. A caravan is owned by a player. And I'm saying that the amount of info you have on your enemy influences your decision making. I'm not talking about one guy attacking one coach. I'm talking about 20-30 bandits attacking a 5-10 coach caravan. If you have ever played medium to big scale PvP, you'll know, that the shotcaller often has to make his decisions on the battlefield info he can gather at a glance. (Whooaaaa...getting really excited here).

    Now imagine, he sees that default caravan, that has the big healing skill bauble dangling from his roof. Decision: Take down that coach first, before we engage the defenders.

    Or he sees that that coach has the blue glowing repulse thingy, that throws melees far away. Decision: Melees distract the defenders, while range destroys the coach. Oh and range has to attack from the front, so they are thrown ahead if they get caught by the pulse.

    Or he sees a default coach with all the high tier components, that make it faster. Decision: We got this battle, but that coach might get away, so kill it first.

    I could go on. I'm not saying that hiding some info would change the overall outcome of the battle, but it might make the difference for that poor guy, that didn't have the money to buy that skin and the shotcaller had more info on him than on the others. He sadly died and lost all his wares, before the reinforcement could arrive.

    I feel like some of these are made up scenarios in attempt to prove your point. First off if this caravan has special abilities and you have a shot caller it should be readable and not just by what it looks like. If they click on it if that is what is intended. (though i have 0 issue not knowing).

    Second why do you think you are going to be able to see what abilities it has, and the abilities equipped are going to change the look of the caravan? I high doubt you are going to read the element of a caravan so you know exactly what to do and make it easier to destroy them. (also making more work that they need to add a decor in the right place for all caravans or create new types that is 100* the work for no reason that won't be a thing)

    This is what I mean by you are making up a non issue, you are adding your own fiction to it to create a issue that doesn't exist in attempt to say it is P2W.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Azherae wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Azherae wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    People pulling at hairs to try to find ways to make things a big deal, what is new lmao. Only argument you can make is how valuable it is to attack based on whatever indicators and they can have things show in ui information if they want, if it isn't clear enough.

    Just to be clear... you don't think that argument is important?

    Just saving OP some time, in case they 'haven't met you yet'.

    He is exaggerating a issue to try to call it pay to win. The same issue (to him it isn't to me atm) that can occur if one earns cosmetics in game and does the same thing.

    I am no match for your Mithridacy Skill today...

    You can see in my post above i answer him.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Players will not be able to see the exact contents of a caravan before they decide to attack or defend, however there will be some visual hints to the cargo of the caravan, such as gold, silver, or iron visible on top of the caravan.[2]
    Cargo is represented in this way even if a cosmetic caravan skin has been applied to the caravan.[2]
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Next: ship skins p2w.
  • MilotrixMilotrix Member, Founder, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    How do you manage to jump to conclusions so confidently when you haven't even seen what the cosmetic skins look like?...
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Playing the game confirmed p2w, cause you gotta pay for it.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    Playing the game confirmed p2w, cause you gotta pay for it.

    But if i buy 4 accounts am i more p2w ;o
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    But if i buy 4 accounts am i more p2w ;o
    You'd be p4w :)
  • DungrimDungrim Member, Alpha Two
    So ultimately the crux of the issue presented is that, assuming that the alternate skin hides the tier level, applying a skin will allow players to hide a decked out caravan in plain sight causing people to attack without the full knowledge of what it is.

    I mean, firstly a big issue I see with the argument is that, we are going off of assumptions. It could just as easily be that each segment is altered to your skin, but clicking on the caravan gives you it's stats. It could also be a base skin, where the tier upgrades such as the added defenses are added onto which make tier differences obvious from the get go.

    But also, even if we assume that the upgrades are completely hidden and that they all look like the lowest tiered or even the highest tiered caravans, I fail to recognize the issue. The thing that would stop you taking over a caravan, or knowing if the caravan is worth anything, wouldn't be the caravan itself. It would be those accompanying the caravan. The caravan cannot fight you, nor can it run away without someone, so if you have a caravan that is surrounded by a tonne of heavily armoured people then I would take a good guess and say it is a higher value target.
    Düngrim Ramheart, Ramheart Council - Pathfinder
    cocd2u6egll9.jpg
    Dünhold Discord
    Dünhold Website
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Dungrim wrote: »
    So ultimately the crux of the issue presented is that, assuming that the alternate skin hides the tier level, applying a skin will allow players to hide a decked out caravan in plain sight causing people to attack without the full knowledge of what it is.

    I mean, firstly a big issue I see with the argument is that, we are going off of assumptions. It could just as easily be that each segment is altered to your skin, but clicking on the caravan gives you it's stats. It could also be a base skin, where the tier upgrades such as the added defenses are added onto which make tier differences obvious from the get go.

    But also, even if we assume that the upgrades are completely hidden and that they all look like the lowest tiered or even the highest tiered caravans, I fail to recognize the issue. The thing that would stop you taking over a caravan, or knowing if the caravan is worth anything, wouldn't be the caravan itself. It would be those accompanying the caravan. The caravan cannot fight you, nor can it run away without someone, so if you have a caravan that is surrounded by a tonne of heavily armoured people then I would take a good guess and say it is a higher value target.

    He was trying to make the point that the way the caravan looks you could meta game what skills they are using. But nothing shown indicates skills change the look of the caravan.

    And the most important thing for players is having a base knowledge of its worth, which will be shown on all caravans skin or no skin.


    Issue to me is players jumping int he game and expecting to know meta of what they are using and make a plan instantly. Like let the game come out lmao.
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    I don't get why we should expect to know everything about our enemy before we attack them. I don't want that level of hand-holding. We're meant to be going back to classic gaming, where we actually have to think and make decisions, rather than be handed everything in a baby-bottle.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


    giphy-downsized-large.gif?cid=b603632fp2svffcmdi83yynpfpexo413mpb1qzxnh3cei0nx&ep=v1_gifs_gifId&rid=giphy-downsized-large.gif&ct=s
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited November 2023
    Kubitz2 wrote: »
    Hal mentioned that the components and buffs a caravan has, will be visible and visually change as you upgrade them. This is a real problem, if you consider, that a caravan skin will probably work like a costume for the coach. There is no way that they will make seperate component visuals for each caravan skin. Even disguising how many beasts of burdens you have, or how much cargo you transport would be an advantage.

    A caravan skin will effectively be a camouflage suit, which gives you in game advantages and therefore a must have P2W item.

    Have you seen the finished caravan skins at the end of beta to make such an analysis?

    Time Machines are 3rd party advantage.
  • edited November 2023
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Kubitz2 wrote: »
    Hal mentioned that the components and buffs a caravan has, will be visible and visually change as you upgrade them. This is a real problem, if you consider, that a caravan skin will probably work like a costume for the coach. There is no way that they will make seperate component visuals for each caravan skin. Even disguising how many beasts of burdens you have, or how much cargo you transport would be an advantage.

    A caravan skin will effectively be a camouflage suit, which gives you in game advantages and therefore a must have P2W item.

    Have you seen the finished caravan skins at the end of beta to make such an analysis?

    Time Machines are 3rd party advantage.

    is there a TARDIS skin coming soon? :smile:

    6d7q2v6be9xw.png
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Kubitz2 wrote: »
    Hal mentioned that the components and buffs a caravan has, will be visible and visually change as you upgrade them. This is a real problem, if you consider, that a caravan skin will probably work like a costume for the coach. There is no way that they will make seperate component visuals for each caravan skin. Even disguising how many beasts of burdens you have, or how much cargo you transport would be an advantage.

    A caravan skin will effectively be a camouflage suit, which gives you in game advantages and therefore a must have P2W item.

    Have you seen the finished caravan skins at the end of beta to make such an analysis?

    Time Machines are 3rd party advantage.

    is there a TARDIS skin coming soon? :smile:

    6d7q2v6be9xw.png

    My cousin ate a whole tardis cake once and his shit turned blue for a week.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • Neurath wrote: »
    Solvryn wrote: »
    Kubitz2 wrote: »
    Hal mentioned that the components and buffs a caravan has, will be visible and visually change as you upgrade them. This is a real problem, if you consider, that a caravan skin will probably work like a costume for the coach. There is no way that they will make seperate component visuals for each caravan skin. Even disguising how many beasts of burdens you have, or how much cargo you transport would be an advantage.

    A caravan skin will effectively be a camouflage suit, which gives you in game advantages and therefore a must have P2W item.

    Have you seen the finished caravan skins at the end of beta to make such an analysis?

    Time Machines are 3rd party advantage.

    is there a TARDIS skin coming soon? :smile:

    6d7q2v6be9xw.png

    My cousin ate a whole tardis cake once and his shit turned blue for a week.

    lol sounds about right, though I pictured more of a green tone consider the bile colour (yellow + blue = green)

    maybe we'll get some Dalek mounts to pull the TARDIS

    6si6pofg4bl6.png
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    ok i think we are taking this too far now...
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