Favorite and least favorite mechanics to face in PvP

When making a multiplayer game it's important to think about mechanics that are fun to use, but also fun to play against.

With that in mind I'd like you to list the mechanics you love to play against, as well as mechanics you hate to play against.

I'll start. I love to play against positional-based abilities and terrain-based CC. For example, abilities that have different effects depending on if the target is facing towards you or away from you. For terrain-based CC, this is something quite common in games like LoL but rarely seen outside of it, where you have some kind of knockback ability and if you knock someone into a wall, they get stunned.

I hate playing against any kind of invisibility or stealth, especially when there's no visual indicator that someone is invisible near you.

That's it for me, so what are YOUR favorite and least favorite game mechanics?

DISCLAIMER: I am NOT making this thread as a member of Intrepid Studios and nothing in this thread is meant to provide feedback to the developers. This is purely for fun and an interesting discussion point.

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murdergroupie

NiKr wrote: »

Love high mobility mirror 1v1 matches.

Hate very long fear effects (victim running away in the directly opposite direction from the attacker w/o being able to do anything).

Fear skills essentially force one to move in generally irrelevant ways, as opposed to incapacitation (of some sort) in place -- yeah, that sucks as a mechanic.

Inevitably everyone displays fear at certain points in-game: running away from a larger group or an opponent against which you'd prove ill-equipped, or periodically dashing for some kind of safety to recuperate.

So hey! No need to add it as a skill, it's already going to be in the game!

x0x0

nanfoodle

DAoC is the setting. Playing an Ab faction, we were always out numbered. We learned to sick and move. Never staying in one place too long. We would attack keeps and run till we had a mess coming after us. Often getting a force 4 to 6 times larger then we could every gather.

Once we had a force hunting us that was nothing we could take on. We would execute the tactics we planned. We would leave a small force to defend a keep while the bulk of our force would move to a near by keep and stay hidden and waiting. When the large force went to retake the keep we left a small contingent to defend. We would take the keep that we were hiding near by at.

The large force in short order would take back the keep and see the message that a near by keep was being seiged. Every AoE class we had would stay ducked down and hiding at the top of the stairs by the NPC you needed to kill to reclaim the keep.

The opposing force after a quick win would come flooding, unthinking come to reclaim the keep we were hiding in wait. With a few defenders at the gate of the keep. As the gate came down, they would chase the defenders up the stairs.

As the defenders came running into the room. We would start AoEing. Our small army of 40 to 50 players would take out 200+ players within 2 to 3 min.

The machinic I miss is tactics and skills that small groups could use to take out a superior forces. I hope Ashes has this. I have to admit this is a feeling I have been chasing for 20 years.

Enigmatic Sage

@nanfoodle i think every faction did the aoe tactics like that as it was meta. Especially on the doors with rams and near the boss rooms for the castles and relic keeps. There were lots of servers where Albion Realm outnumbered the Hibernians and Midguard haha. Such a great game (especially for its time), frontier RvR was great

Darkness falls got interesting past the cross roads with multiple raid groups from different realms colliding.

nanfoodle

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

@nanfoodle i think every faction did the aoe tactics like that as it was meta. Especially on the doors with rams and near the boss rooms for the castles and relic keeps. There were lots of servers where Albion Realm outnumbered the Hibernians and Midguard haha. Such a great game (especially for its time), frontier RvR was great

Darkness falls got interesting past the cross roads with multiple raid groups from different realms colliding.

My point is more about PvP games have not given us tools to deal with ball groups since DAoC. ESO had a set that did but quickly got nerfed into the ground. I hope Ashes gives us tools to do just that, small groups with skills and tactics, to take out ball groups.

Enigmatic Sage

nanfoodle wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

@nanfoodle i think every faction did the aoe tactics like that as it was meta. Especially on the doors with rams and near the boss rooms for the castles and relic keeps. There were lots of servers where Albion Realm outnumbered the Hibernians and Midguard haha. Such a great game (especially for its time), frontier RvR was great

Darkness falls got interesting past the cross roads with multiple raid groups from different realms colliding.

My point is more about PvP games have not given us tools to deal with ball groups since DAoC. ESO had a set that did but quickly got nerfed into the ground. I hope Ashes gives us tools to do just that, small groups with skills and tactics, to take out ball groups.

player collision and flagging systems other than resource management and some physics.

nanfoodle

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

@nanfoodle i think every faction did the aoe tactics like that as it was meta. Especially on the doors with rams and near the boss rooms for the castles and relic keeps. There were lots of servers where Albion Realm outnumbered the Hibernians and Midguard haha. Such a great game (especially for its time), frontier RvR was great

Darkness falls got interesting past the cross roads with multiple raid groups from different realms colliding.

My point is more about PvP games have not given us tools to deal with ball groups since DAoC. ESO had a set that did but quickly got nerfed into the ground. I hope Ashes gives us tools to do just that, small groups with skills and tactics, to take out ball groups.

player collision and flagging systems other than resource management and some physics.

None of what you mentioned helps deal with Ball Groups. Set bonis that makes AoE do more damage the larager the group you hit. Larger a group is, the larger number of people opposing armies AoE can hit. CC's that break up a Ball Groups. Things like that are what's needed.

Enigmatic Sage

nanfoodle wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

@nanfoodle i think every faction did the aoe tactics like that as it was meta. Especially on the doors with rams and near the boss rooms for the castles and relic keeps. There were lots of servers where Albion Realm outnumbered the Hibernians and Midguard haha. Such a great game (especially for its time), frontier RvR was great

Darkness falls got interesting past the cross roads with multiple raid groups from different realms colliding.

My point is more about PvP games have not given us tools to deal with ball groups since DAoC. ESO had a set that did but quickly got nerfed into the ground. I hope Ashes gives us tools to do just that, small groups with skills and tactics, to take out ball groups.

player collision and flagging systems other than resource management and some physics.

None of what you mentioned helps deal with Ball Groups. Set bonis that makes AoE do more damage the larager the group you hit. Larger a group is, the larger number of people opposing armies AoE can hit. CC's that break up a Ball Groups. Things like that are what's needed.

it does help actually.

nanfoodle

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

@nanfoodle i think every faction did the aoe tactics like that as it was meta. Especially on the doors with rams and near the boss rooms for the castles and relic keeps. There were lots of servers where Albion Realm outnumbered the Hibernians and Midguard haha. Such a great game (especially for its time), frontier RvR was great

Darkness falls got interesting past the cross roads with multiple raid groups from different realms colliding.

My point is more about PvP games have not given us tools to deal with ball groups since DAoC. ESO had a set that did but quickly got nerfed into the ground. I hope Ashes gives us tools to do just that, small groups with skills and tactics, to take out ball groups.

player collision and flagging systems other than resource management and some physics.

None of what you mentioned helps deal with Ball Groups. Set bonis that makes AoE do more damage the larager the group you hit. Larger a group is, the larger number of people opposing armies AoE can hit. CC's that break up a Ball Groups. Things like that are what's needed.

it does help actually.

Been PvPing since DAoC launch, played GW2 and ESO PvP battle grounds for many, many years. In my experience, this things you mentioned have never put an end to any ball group. Please elaborate how you have used these tool to do so and I what game? Thanks

Smaashley

Thokan wrote: »

Pulls are a big no, no. God, imagine how annoying if the enemy just pulls you into their ball and annihilates you, without any chance. How lame.

Is it because you don't use pulls ? Because I feel like pulls have a lot of potential in PvP and PvE (both for mechanics and fun enjoyers) and it is quite fun when you success in pulling someone near you. Just remember that there will always be ways to counter cc effects (example : in Guild Wars 2, some professions have Stability buffs that they can't be pulled, pushed, stunned, etc.) It is always a question of duration and cooldown for balancing. In this paragraph, I'm not saying that the one pulling you should be able to kill you by the time you can cast skills back at him. It's a crowd control skills and if other skills are so powerful that they "2 shots you", that is VERY unbalanced. People can always react to counter the CC they are against if they use their skills accordingly. For example, a ranger is attacking from range and they have skills that have mobility (like the backstep skill from the alpha preview) so they can always get in range fast. Of course if they time that skill accordingly. Knowledge of other classes is very handful for this, because you will know which skill they have so you will save your Cc cleanse skills for when they use CC effects against you.

I'll say and always repeat : Guild Wars 2 has AWESOME mechanics and combat. More games should take their ideas from time to time, because it makes the game fun and enjoyeable.

Enigmatic Sage

nanfoodle wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

@nanfoodle i think every faction did the aoe tactics like that as it was meta. Especially on the doors with rams and near the boss rooms for the castles and relic keeps. There were lots of servers where Albion Realm outnumbered the Hibernians and Midguard haha. Such a great game (especially for its time), frontier RvR was great

Darkness falls got interesting past the cross roads with multiple raid groups from different realms colliding.

My point is more about PvP games have not given us tools to deal with ball groups since DAoC. ESO had a set that did but quickly got nerfed into the ground. I hope Ashes gives us tools to do just that, small groups with skills and tactics, to take out ball groups.

player collision and flagging systems other than resource management and some physics.

None of what you mentioned helps deal with Ball Groups. Set bonis that makes AoE do more damage the larager the group you hit. Larger a group is, the larger number of people opposing armies AoE can hit. CC's that break up a Ball Groups. Things like that are what's needed.

it does help actually.

Been PvPing since DAoC launch, played GW2 and ESO PvP battle grounds for many, many years. In my experience, this things you mentioned have never put an end to any ball group. Please elaborate how you have used these tool to do so and I what game? Thanks

Are you for real or you wasting my time?

Elaborating on collision vs no collision is pointless. I hope you can figure that one out but... it forces players to spread out but also the risk of friendly fire due to flagging. It's not a faction based game.

Yenn0war

Enjoy
-PvP ratings and rankings
-Arenas

Dislike
- Scheduled sieges, but I understand why they are doing it.
- Macros and addons. Its a pain in the ass to set them up and it kills the mystery of the game mechanics. Not to mention they are not new player friendly.

nanfoodle

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

@nanfoodle i think every faction did the aoe tactics like that as it was meta. Especially on the doors with rams and near the boss rooms for the castles and relic keeps. There were lots of servers where Albion Realm outnumbered the Hibernians and Midguard haha. Such a great game (especially for its time), frontier RvR was great

Darkness falls got interesting past the cross roads with multiple raid groups from different realms colliding.

My point is more about PvP games have not given us tools to deal with ball groups since DAoC. ESO had a set that did but quickly got nerfed into the ground. I hope Ashes gives us tools to do just that, small groups with skills and tactics, to take out ball groups.

player collision and flagging systems other than resource management and some physics.

None of what you mentioned helps deal with Ball Groups. Set bonis that makes AoE do more damage the larager the group you hit. Larger a group is, the larger number of people opposing armies AoE can hit. CC's that break up a Ball Groups. Things like that are what's needed.

it does help actually.

Been PvPing since DAoC launch, played GW2 and ESO PvP battle grounds for many, many years. In my experience, this things you mentioned have never put an end to any ball group. Please elaborate how you have used these tool to do so and I what game? Thanks

Are you for real or you wasting my time?

Elaborating on collision vs no collision is pointless. I hope you can figure that one out but... it forces players to spread out but also the risk of friendly fire due to flagging. It's not a faction based game.

Maybe you don't know what a ball group is? Because collision helps ball groups.

Enigmatic Sage

nanfoodle wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

@nanfoodle i think every faction did the aoe tactics like that as it was meta. Especially on the doors with rams and near the boss rooms for the castles and relic keeps. There were lots of servers where Albion Realm outnumbered the Hibernians and Midguard haha. Such a great game (especially for its time), frontier RvR was great

Darkness falls got interesting past the cross roads with multiple raid groups from different realms colliding.

My point is more about PvP games have not given us tools to deal with ball groups since DAoC. ESO had a set that did but quickly got nerfed into the ground. I hope Ashes gives us tools to do just that, small groups with skills and tactics, to take out ball groups.

player collision and flagging systems other than resource management and some physics.

None of what you mentioned helps deal with Ball Groups. Set bonis that makes AoE do more damage the larager the group you hit. Larger a group is, the larger number of people opposing armies AoE can hit. CC's that break up a Ball Groups. Things like that are what's needed.

it does help actually.

Been PvPing since DAoC launch, played GW2 and ESO PvP battle grounds for many, many years. In my experience, this things you mentioned have never put an end to any ball group. Please elaborate how you have used these tool to do so and I what game? Thanks

Are you for real or you wasting my time?

Elaborating on collision vs no collision is pointless. I hope you can figure that one out but... it forces players to spread out but also the risk of friendly fire due to flagging. It's not a faction based game.

Maybe you don't know what a ball group is? Because collision helps ball groups.

... #5 Congratulations...

nanfoodle

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

@nanfoodle i think every faction did the aoe tactics like that as it was meta. Especially on the doors with rams and near the boss rooms for the castles and relic keeps. There were lots of servers where Albion Realm outnumbered the Hibernians and Midguard haha. Such a great game (especially for its time), frontier RvR was great

Darkness falls got interesting past the cross roads with multiple raid groups from different realms colliding.

My point is more about PvP games have not given us tools to deal with ball groups since DAoC. ESO had a set that did but quickly got nerfed into the ground. I hope Ashes gives us tools to do just that, small groups with skills and tactics, to take out ball groups.

player collision and flagging systems other than resource management and some physics.

None of what you mentioned helps deal with Ball Groups. Set bonis that makes AoE do more damage the larager the group you hit. Larger a group is, the larger number of people opposing armies AoE can hit. CC's that break up a Ball Groups. Things like that are what's needed.

it does help actually.

Been PvPing since DAoC launch, played GW2 and ESO PvP battle grounds for many, many years. In my experience, this things you mentioned have never put an end to any ball group. Please elaborate how you have used these tool to do so and I what game? Thanks

Are you for real or you wasting my time?

Elaborating on collision vs no collision is pointless. I hope you can figure that one out but... it forces players to spread out but also the risk of friendly fire due to flagging. It's not a faction based game.

Maybe you don't know what a ball group is? Because collision helps ball groups.

... #5 Congratulations...

Again I ask, how have you seen collision used to overcome a ball group? Your the one who said that's one of the uses. I am 100% curious. I'm not picking a fight or trying to make fun. It's a real question.

Ludullu

nanfoodle wrote: »

Maybe you don't know what a ball group is? Because collision helps ball groups.

I don't know what it is. How exactly does collision help them? If there's no collision, the theoretical amount of people in one aoe is unlimited. If there is collision - there's a limit on how many people you can hit.

So what exactly do "ball groups" do that collision helps them?

Chonkers1

NiKr wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

Maybe you don't know what a ball group is? Because collision helps ball groups.

I don't know what it is. How exactly does collision help them? If there's no collision, the theoretical amount of people in one aoe is unlimited. If there is collision - there's a limit on how many people you can hit.

So what exactly do "ball groups" do that collision helps them?

i know that collision to some degree nerfs aoes

nanfoodle

NiKr wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

Maybe you don't know what a ball group is? Because collision helps ball groups.

I don't know what it is. How exactly does collision help them? If there's no collision, the theoretical amount of people in one aoe is unlimited. If there is collision - there's a limit on how many people you can hit.

So what exactly do "ball groups" do that collision helps them?

They group up with AoE heals and AoE damage. The run like a train running over everyone. Often they are a large number of players and they keep their movement tight so you can't pick them off as stragglers. Seen it done in DAoA with some effect but there were many tools to deal with large numbers.

GW2 same thing. Now ESO the way the skill system worked. They were almost always unstoppable. Ashes skill system is an known but does remind me in one way. Just the sear number of ways to spec.

As far as Collision goes, you didn't want to get pinned down when a ball group was heading your way. If they pinned down yoh or your group, you were dead. ESO gave us some tools to deal with them and then they nurfed them. Was a problem for the last year of my time in ESO and one of the reasons I cancelled my sub. I just checked youtube and there is still info up on how to make ball groups.

My hope this never becomes a thing in Ashes.

nanfoodle

Sorry miss typed. I ment to say Ashes skill system is unknown but...

Ludullu

nanfoodle wrote: »

As far as Collision goes, you didn't want to get pinned down when a ball group was heading your way. If they pinned down yoh or your group, you were dead.

What do you mean by "pinned down"? They would assist-hit you, if you got stuck on some people? Or do you mean that they would aoe hit your group that is somehow smaller than their group, so you can't just hit them with your own aoes?

I still don't see how collision helps a group of people to stay in their own aoes, while avoiding being hit by enemy aoes, WHILE using their own aoes to hit other people.

A "ball" supposes a tight formation, so the chances are - the ball group would have more people in any given aoe than any other random collection of people just running around the battlefield. Which then means that using aoes against this group is already more beneficial.

The only thing that truly helps ball groups is stacking aoe heals/buffs. Everything else works against them. And I definitely agree that Ashes shouldn't have stacking aoe heals. Hell, make that shit cost more if you have more than one cleric-related class in your party. This would not only push people to avoid "everyone's a healer" party builds, but also prevent these so called ball groups from being too effective.

nanfoodle

NiKr wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

As far as Collision goes, you didn't want to get pinned down when a ball group was heading your way. If they pinned down yoh or your group, you were dead.

What do you mean by "pinned down"? They would assist-hit you, if you got stuck on some people? Or do you mean that they would aoe hit your group that is somehow smaller than their group, so you can't just hit them with your own aoes?

I still don't see how collision helps a group of people to stay in their own aoes, while avoiding being hit by enemy aoes, WHILE using their own aoes to hit other people.

A "ball" supposes a tight formation, so the chances are - the ball group would have more people in any given aoe than any other random collection of people just running around the battlefield. Which then means that using aoes against this group is already more beneficial.

The only thing that truly helps ball groups is stacking aoe heals/buffs. Everything else works against them. And I definitely agree that Ashes shouldn't have stacking aoe heals. Hell, make that shit cost more if you have more than one cleric-related class in your party. This would not only push people to avoid "everyone's a healer" party builds, but also prevent these so called ball groups from being too effective.

ESO is a 3 faction war. I have been pinned down as my faction and an opposing faction were trying to feel the ball group, and running away didn't work as the opposing faction that was fleeing as well, slowed you down with Collision and we did the same to them and dead. Or the ball group would pin you down in a confined area and the only option was to die.

Was a pain enjoying a great battle and a ball group would show up and just take out swaths of players and just move on to show up somewhere else. I have seen two factions working together, fail in taking out a ball group.

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