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Hardest Class/ Class Combo

Hey everyone, I'm here to ask about what you all what you think would be the hardest class to play in Ashes?

Now let me preface this that I am actually new to mmorpgs and haven't had a proper pc to play one yet and am hoping to get one before Ashes comes out, so don't tear me apart in the comments please.

I have been watching many content creators such as Asmongold, Golden Feather Tavern and their guests, and a few others to be at least a little knowledgeable on this type of stuff. So what I'd like to point out is when I say "Hardest" class to play, I mean it socially such as going the dungeons and raids. I get Tanks will have it the hardest when it comes to solo play with most skills made for partying with others than by themselves.

The reason why I ask is that I learned while watching these creators is that each role of the trinity has their own problems when it comes to social encounters such as Tanks setting pace and if not done correctly can lead to a lot of arguing and the high possibility of getting kicked from the group, DPS classes always being compared to the highest damage dealer in the party or to someone known to have a high DPS, and Support/Healers having to keep up with all the damage being done to the party. But with all the class combos and with game being designed around group play rather than solo then this might be a thing of the past though there may be certainly some balancing need to be done during Alpha 2, Betas and into Launch.

Now with a vod I've watched of bald god himself, Asmongold, He stated DPS has it harder due always having to be compared to the most popular DPS player or the DPS player in the party who had bigger numbers while stating Tanks have it easier but while also needing the most amount of game knowledge. (let it be known I'm abbreviating what he said so in no way is it word for word)

My Answer
I'd now like to point out now that most of the classes can be placed into the holy trinity of mmorpgs, all except for one, the Summoner. The Bard and Cleric are support, Tank is well... the tank, and everything else is classified as damage according to the wiki. All except for the summoner, which stated by Steven will be the glue in the part that fills in the gaps of a party comp meaning this class will have to take on all the problems that comes from the social aspect when dungeon delving or raiding with this class also being the culmination the trinity encompassing each role equally until their secondary archetype in which they'll be able to specialize in one unless they go for being a Conjurer (Summoner/Summoner) which to my understanding may not necessarily enhance the ability of the summoner in all directions but may just allow the to summon a lot more creatures compared to their starting 3 but I digress. All I'm saying is having the ability to cover all roles also means having significant game knowledge and reaction time to be an effective party member to cover the group whenever you are needed.


Again make sure to frame your answer from the mindset of dungeon diving or raiding but you can still talk about open world parts as well such as sieges and node wars. I'd like to here from veterans to get their stance.

Comments

  • I'd like to note that I plan to be a summoner because I like the sound of it
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited January 3
    Based on exactly how you defined it, the socially hardest Archetype to play will probably be Rogue.

    If the game is challenging, then being out of position will be dangerous and cost your group speed of progression, and in PvP situations, possibly cost you the fight. Rogues are often positional Damage Dealers and sometimes assist with threat/hate control in complex Trinity games.

    So you have a class that needs to be in the right place at the right time for their DPS, but also might be able to randomly (evasion stat based mitigation) take big damage if they stay too long or go too early, also being responsible, potentially, for part of the 'making sure the group doesn't die', and on top of all that, being expected to know lots about the timings of enemies. Then they're still susceptible to 'people not knowing what they're actually supposed to be doing', and likely to be unnecessary for certain content types, meaning they would have a hard time finding groups during the phase where people want to be 'efficient'.

    A very GOOD Summoner has this problem too, but in many games they do this sort of thing moreso by choice. Whereas often, for the Rogue type, it's a requirement from moment one.

    Since the game is generally 'PvP and disruptions can always happen', a Dungeoneering Rogue is likely to also be required to have some Fighter or Tank Augments, so I'll say the hardest class will be Duelist, based on my experience.
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
    
  • rogue or support will be the hardest to play.
  • Probably Summoner/Summoner. The class itself is supposed to be able to role-fill, in groups that don't have enough heals/tanks/dps.

    If you think about it, jack-of-all-trades would *have* to be the most-demanding, since you'll need to spend so much extra time in collecting all the skill-Augments, in order to fill any role, on-demand.



  • TycanTycan Member, Alpha One
    Depraved wrote: »
    rogue or support will be the hardest to play.

    I'll second this!
    [URL="[/URL]
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  • This is a difficult question to answer, having not seen all of the archetypes yet. However, purely speculatively, I would imagine a Support class who's buffs are in high demand during a group/dungeon/raid will be the most demanding.

    One thing i've picked up over the years from playing each role in the trinity in MMOs is that EVERYONE is addicted to the buffs. Everyone wants that little extra so they can be a little more badass.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Probably Summoner/Summoner. The class itself is supposed to be able to role-fill, in groups that don't have enough heals/tanks/dps.

    If you think about it, jack-of-all-trades would *have* to be the most-demanding, since you'll need to spend so much extra time in collecting all the skill-Augments, in order to fill any role, on-demand.



    I would not expect Summoner/Summoner to actually role-fill for another Primary Archetype.
    Especially since the game is designed to be balanced for an 8-person group with one of each Primary Archetype, rather than a 7-person group with one of each Primary Archetype except Summoner.

    Nor should you expect the average Summoner/Summoner to be decent at each of the Primary Archetype roles or even decent at each of the Trinity roles.
    Rather, expect the average Summoner to be good at the Primary Archetype role of Summoner and also be decent in at least one of the Trinity roles.

    Some might choose to play Summoner as Jack-of-Trinity-Roles. That doesn't mean most will.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Azherae wrote: »
    Based on exactly how you defined it, the socially hardest Archetype to play will probably be Rogue.

    If the game is challenging, then being out of position will be dangerous and cost your group speed of progression, and in PvP situations, possibly cost you the fight. Rogues are often positional Damage Dealers and sometimes assist with threat/hate control in complex Trinity games.

    So you have a class that needs to be in the right place at the right time for their DPS, but also might be able to randomly (evasion stat based mitigation) take big damage if they stay too long or go too early, also being responsible, potentially, for part of the 'making sure the group doesn't die', and on top of all that, being expected to know lots about the timings of enemies. Then they're still susceptible to 'people not knowing what they're actually supposed to be doing', and likely to be unnecessary for certain content types, meaning they would have a hard time finding groups during the phase where people want to be 'efficient'.
    I mean... keep in mind that Ashes is not just about playing to your individual rotations.
    Support can also mean that you're using your Augments to stack damage with another person in your group.
    So, it's not necessarily about supporting another Trinity role - in Ashes, that support can also be accomplished by supporting members of the group who have the same Archetype roles and/or Damage types.
    For example, a Rogue/Summoner may choose to support a Summoner/Ranger or a Bard/Summoner.
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Dygz wrote: »
    Azherae wrote: »
    Based on exactly how you defined it, the socially hardest Archetype to play will probably be Rogue.

    If the game is challenging, then being out of position will be dangerous and cost your group speed of progression, and in PvP situations, possibly cost you the fight. Rogues are often positional Damage Dealers and sometimes assist with threat/hate control in complex Trinity games.

    So you have a class that needs to be in the right place at the right time for their DPS, but also might be able to randomly (evasion stat based mitigation) take big damage if they stay too long or go too early, also being responsible, potentially, for part of the 'making sure the group doesn't die', and on top of all that, being expected to know lots about the timings of enemies. Then they're still susceptible to 'people not knowing what they're actually supposed to be doing', and likely to be unnecessary for certain content types, meaning they would have a hard time finding groups during the phase where people want to be 'efficient'.
    I mean... keep in mind that Ashes is not just about playing to your individual rotations.
    Support can also mean that you're using your Augments to stack damage with another person in your group.
    So, it's not necessarily about supporting another Trinity role - in Ashes, that support can also be accomplished by supporting members of the group who have the same Archetype roles and/or Damage types.
    For example, a Rogue/Summoner may choose to support a Summoner/Ranger or a Bard/Summoner.

    A surprising response from you...

    The Primary Archetype of Rogue will have Rogue skills. In some games, which is open for discussion in this case, the Rogue has Primary abilities that involve manipulating hate and threat to assist the Tank. Since the Primary abilities would, in that scenario, be the source of the 'Support' I am talking about, that's the basis of my point.

    Basically, I was never considering augments at all, nor damage.

    If you were addressing the point about efficiency, your choice of how to address it is also unclear to me, and I feel like I'm not going to 'get it' until you explain it differently. As it is, I can't connect the speculative (but very likely!) statement you made, to what I was saying.
    Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
    
  • SongRuneSongRune Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    StewBad wrote: »
    This is a difficult question to answer, having not seen all of the archetypes yet. However, purely speculatively, I would imagine a Support class who's buffs are in high demand during a group/dungeon/raid will be the most demanding.

    One thing i've picked up over the years from playing each role in the trinity in MMOs is that EVERYONE is addicted to the buffs. Everyone wants that little extra so they can be a little more badass.

    I'll certainly accept that being up there on the list, but I don't think those classes (as a Bard myself) can possibly be on the top. We at least have the ability to direct complainers at their competitors and step back if we want to. "Sorry, I either had time to refresh the Mage's mana OR give you an Attack buff in addition to the Accuracy one I was giving you. It's that or drop the Tank's elemental resistance buffs."

    The inevitable "well obviously you shoulda done that" starts a war I don't have to fight. I don't envy the rogue who can't keep up with the enmity redirection, or misses some DPS synergy because one of their teammates was an idiot and forced a different one to reposition, which then ruined the Rogue's positioning at a critical moment. That "wtf? I have nothing to do with your job, don't go making excuses for your suck" that always seems to come from the least skilled player in any group is not something I envy.
  • I'd say any class can be made the hardest if "gimped" properly.

    Unusual spec, weapon choice, these kind of things. I don't expect many would go with that for their main character, but to explore what's possible or as a personal challenge, it can be an interesting avenue for an alt.

    The tricky part is that it must still be functional, even if efficiency is diminished somewhat. It's not about making the character weak so much as making it unconventional and giving the meta the finger.

    And the social aspect adds another layer... How far the people you're playing with are willing to adapt to your odd antics?
    Be bold. Be brave. Roll a Tulnar !
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited January 4
    Azherae wrote: »
    Basically, I was never considering augments at all, nor damage.

    If you were addressing the point about efficiency, your choice of how to address it is also unclear to me, and I feel like I'm not going to 'get it' until you explain it differently. As it is, I can't connect the speculative (but very likely!) statement you made, to what I was saying.
    Yep. I was adding to what you wrote; not negating anything you wrote.
  • Rogue/Summoner
    Rogue due to many unforgiving mechanics
    Summoner secondary for a pet to manage in addition
  • Chonkers wrote: »
    Rogue/Summoner
    Rogue due to many unforgiving mechanics
    Summoner secondary for a pet to manage in addition

    Read today on the wiki Rogue will also have the lowest mobility. Would still argue Summoner/Summoners will have to collect the most Augments; The gameplay of Summoner/Summoner might not be the hardest, but to really max the capacity of it, would still argue that one would still want to collect more Augments for this combo than any others.

    @Dygz What's your prediction?



  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Collecting Augments is really up to each individual player - and it's not limited to Secondary Archetype Augments. So, predicting "hardest" class to play is kinda pointless.

    Summoner/Summoner is not necessarily about trying to be META for Jack-Of-All-Trinity-Roles.
    I could be a Summoner/Summoner and only use Thieves' Guild Augments.
    I could also be a Summoner/Cleric and only use Thieves' Guild Augments.

    It's an RPG with tons of diversity, so - it's really just going to be about what and how each individual player prefers to play.
  • Hey everyone, I'm here to ask about what you all what you think would be the hardest class to play in Ashes?
    The ones which try to become glass cannon and die fast.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Glass cannons are intended to be playing with Healers who will keep them alive.
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Depraved wrote: »
    rogue or support will be the hardest to play.

    the hardest part about playing a Rogue is finding a group that wants you instead of inviting another mage/archer lol
    img]
    Recrutamento aberto - Nosso Site: Clique aqui
  • Liniker wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    rogue or support will be the hardest to play.

    the hardest part about playing a Rogue is finding a group that wants you instead of inviting another mage/archer lol

    true xDDDDDDDD
  • CROW3CROW3 Member
    Druid… because it doesn’t exist. 😬
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • CROW3 wrote: »
    Druid… because it doesn’t exist. 😬

    Someone who actually thinks outside of the box :smile:

    @CrackedJack hard to say of obvious reasons. You'll have the same amount of button combinations to play with as any other class regardless. Depends on the player and resource management. I wouldn't expect anything too over the top though.
  • CROW3 wrote: »
    Druid… because it doesn’t exist. 😬

    Not sure if I want to laugh or cry at this statement. :']
    apr6xzdxo10r.png
  • Hey everyone, I'm here to ask about what you all what you think would be the hardest class to play in Ashes?

    Now let me preface this that I am actually new to mmorpgs and haven't had a proper pc to play one yet and am hoping to get one before Ashes comes out, so don't tear me apart in the comments please.

    I have been watching many content creators such as Asmongold, Golden Feather Tavern and their guests, and a few others to be at least a little knowledgeable on this type of stuff. So what I'd like to point out is when I say "Hardest" class to play, I mean it socially such as going the dungeons and raids. I get Tanks will have it the hardest when it comes to solo play with most skills made for partying with others than by themselves.

    The reason why I ask is that I learned while watching these creators is that each role of the trinity has their own problems when it comes to social encounters such as Tanks setting pace and if not done correctly can lead to a lot of arguing and the high possibility of getting kicked from the group, DPS classes always being compared to the highest damage dealer in the party or to someone known to have a high DPS, and Support/Healers having to keep up with all the damage being done to the party. But with all the class combos and with game being designed around group play rather than solo then this might be a thing of the past though there may be certainly some balancing need to be done during Alpha 2, Betas and into Launch.

    Now with a vod I've watched of bald god himself, Asmongold, He stated DPS has it harder due always having to be compared to the most popular DPS player or the DPS player in the party who had bigger numbers while stating Tanks have it easier but while also needing the most amount of game knowledge. (let it be known I'm abbreviating what he said so in no way is it word for word)

    My Answer
    I'd now like to point out now that most of the classes can be placed into the holy trinity of mmorpgs, all except for one, the Summoner. The Bard and Cleric are support, Tank is well... the tank, and everything else is classified as damage according to the wiki. All except for the summoner, which stated by Steven will be the glue in the part that fills in the gaps of a party comp meaning this class will have to take on all the problems that comes from the social aspect when dungeon delving or raiding with this class also being the culmination the trinity encompassing each role equally until their secondary archetype in which they'll be able to specialize in one unless they go for being a Conjurer (Summoner/Summoner) which to my understanding may not necessarily enhance the ability of the summoner in all directions but may just allow the to summon a lot more creatures compared to their starting 3 but I digress. All I'm saying is having the ability to cover all roles also means having significant game knowledge and reaction time to be an effective party member to cover the group whenever you are needed.


    Again make sure to frame your answer from the mindset of dungeon diving or raiding but you can still talk about open world parts as well such as sieges and node wars. I'd like to here from veterans to get their stance.

    I'm hoping the summoner is a highly technical class that is hard to master and has a high skill cap.
  • Hey everyone, I'm here to ask about what you all what you think would be the hardest class to play in Ashes?

    Now let me preface this that I am actually new to mmorpgs and haven't had a proper pc to play one yet and am hoping to get one before Ashes comes out, so don't tear me apart in the comments please.

    I have been watching many content creators such as Asmongold, Golden Feather Tavern and their guests, and a few others to be at least a little knowledgeable on this type of stuff. So what I'd like to point out is when I say "Hardest" class to play, I mean it socially such as going the dungeons and raids. I get Tanks will have it the hardest when it comes to solo play with most skills made for partying with others than by themselves.

    The reason why I ask is that I learned while watching these creators is that each role of the trinity has their own problems when it comes to social encounters such as Tanks setting pace and if not done correctly can lead to a lot of arguing and the high possibility of getting kicked from the group, DPS classes always being compared to the highest damage dealer in the party or to someone known to have a high DPS, and Support/Healers having to keep up with all the damage being done to the party. But with all the class combos and with game being designed around group play rather than solo then this might be a thing of the past though there may be certainly some balancing need to be done during Alpha 2, Betas and into Launch.

    Now with a vod I've watched of bald god himself, Asmongold, He stated DPS has it harder due always having to be compared to the most popular DPS player or the DPS player in the party who had bigger numbers while stating Tanks have it easier but while also needing the most amount of game knowledge. (let it be known I'm abbreviating what he said so in no way is it word for word)

    My Answer
    I'd now like to point out now that most of the classes can be placed into the holy trinity of mmorpgs, all except for one, the Summoner. The Bard and Cleric are support, Tank is well... the tank, and everything else is classified as damage according to the wiki. All except for the summoner, which stated by Steven will be the glue in the part that fills in the gaps of a party comp meaning this class will have to take on all the problems that comes from the social aspect when dungeon delving or raiding with this class also being the culmination the trinity encompassing each role equally until their secondary archetype in which they'll be able to specialize in one unless they go for being a Conjurer (Summoner/Summoner) which to my understanding may not necessarily enhance the ability of the summoner in all directions but may just allow the to summon a lot more creatures compared to their starting 3 but I digress. All I'm saying is having the ability to cover all roles also means having significant game knowledge and reaction time to be an effective party member to cover the group whenever you are needed.


    Again make sure to frame your answer from the mindset of dungeon diving or raiding but you can still talk about open world parts as well such as sieges and node wars. I'd like to here from veterans to get their stance.

    I'm hoping the summoner is a highly technical class that is hard to master and has a high skill cap.

    Regardless of technical level there is the chance it wont meet everyone's expectations or playstyle that enjoys them.
  • Hey everyone, I'm here to ask about what you all what you think would be the hardest class to play in Ashes?

    Now let me preface this that I am actually new to mmorpgs and haven't had a proper pc to play one yet and am hoping to get one before Ashes comes out, so don't tear me apart in the comments please.

    I have been watching many content creators such as Asmongold, Golden Feather Tavern and their guests, and a few others to be at least a little knowledgeable on this type of stuff. So what I'd like to point out is when I say "Hardest" class to play, I mean it socially such as going the dungeons and raids. I get Tanks will have it the hardest when it comes to solo play with most skills made for partying with others than by themselves.

    The reason why I ask is that I learned while watching these creators is that each role of the trinity has their own problems when it comes to social encounters such as Tanks setting pace and if not done correctly can lead to a lot of arguing and the high possibility of getting kicked from the group, DPS classes always being compared to the highest damage dealer in the party or to someone known to have a high DPS, and Support/Healers having to keep up with all the damage being done to the party. But with all the class combos and with game being designed around group play rather than solo then this might be a thing of the past though there may be certainly some balancing need to be done during Alpha 2, Betas and into Launch.

    Now with a vod I've watched of bald god himself, Asmongold, He stated DPS has it harder due always having to be compared to the most popular DPS player or the DPS player in the party who had bigger numbers while stating Tanks have it easier but while also needing the most amount of game knowledge. (let it be known I'm abbreviating what he said so in no way is it word for word)

    My Answer
    I'd now like to point out now that most of the classes can be placed into the holy trinity of mmorpgs, all except for one, the Summoner. The Bard and Cleric are support, Tank is well... the tank, and everything else is classified as damage according to the wiki. All except for the summoner, which stated by Steven will be the glue in the part that fills in the gaps of a party comp meaning this class will have to take on all the problems that comes from the social aspect when dungeon delving or raiding with this class also being the culmination the trinity encompassing each role equally until their secondary archetype in which they'll be able to specialize in one unless they go for being a Conjurer (Summoner/Summoner) which to my understanding may not necessarily enhance the ability of the summoner in all directions but may just allow the to summon a lot more creatures compared to their starting 3 but I digress. All I'm saying is having the ability to cover all roles also means having significant game knowledge and reaction time to be an effective party member to cover the group whenever you are needed.


    Again make sure to frame your answer from the mindset of dungeon diving or raiding but you can still talk about open world parts as well such as sieges and node wars. I'd like to here from veterans to get their stance.

    I'm hoping the summoner is a highly technical class that is hard to master and has a high skill cap.

    Regardless of technical level there is the chance it wont meet everyone's expectations or playstyle that enjoys them.

    I'm super weary of summoner style classes. They're usually too passive and boring. So they are either too strong because of that, or nerfed into obscurity.

    But IS seems to have a great attitude towards gameplay, so I'm hoping it will turn out better than past iterations.
  • edited January 10
    Hey everyone, I'm here to ask about what you all what you think would be the hardest class to play in Ashes?

    Now let me preface this that I am actually new to mmorpgs and haven't had a proper pc to play one yet and am hoping to get one before Ashes comes out, so don't tear me apart in the comments please.

    I have been watching many content creators such as Asmongold, Golden Feather Tavern and their guests, and a few others to be at least a little knowledgeable on this type of stuff. So what I'd like to point out is when I say "Hardest" class to play, I mean it socially such as going the dungeons and raids. I get Tanks will have it the hardest when it comes to solo play with most skills made for partying with others than by themselves.

    The reason why I ask is that I learned while watching these creators is that each role of the trinity has their own problems when it comes to social encounters such as Tanks setting pace and if not done correctly can lead to a lot of arguing and the high possibility of getting kicked from the group, DPS classes always being compared to the highest damage dealer in the party or to someone known to have a high DPS, and Support/Healers having to keep up with all the damage being done to the party. But with all the class combos and with game being designed around group play rather than solo then this might be a thing of the past though there may be certainly some balancing need to be done during Alpha 2, Betas and into Launch.

    Now with a vod I've watched of bald god himself, Asmongold, He stated DPS has it harder due always having to be compared to the most popular DPS player or the DPS player in the party who had bigger numbers while stating Tanks have it easier but while also needing the most amount of game knowledge. (let it be known I'm abbreviating what he said so in no way is it word for word)

    My Answer
    I'd now like to point out now that most of the classes can be placed into the holy trinity of mmorpgs, all except for one, the Summoner. The Bard and Cleric are support, Tank is well... the tank, and everything else is classified as damage according to the wiki. All except for the summoner, which stated by Steven will be the glue in the part that fills in the gaps of a party comp meaning this class will have to take on all the problems that comes from the social aspect when dungeon delving or raiding with this class also being the culmination the trinity encompassing each role equally until their secondary archetype in which they'll be able to specialize in one unless they go for being a Conjurer (Summoner/Summoner) which to my understanding may not necessarily enhance the ability of the summoner in all directions but may just allow the to summon a lot more creatures compared to their starting 3 but I digress. All I'm saying is having the ability to cover all roles also means having significant game knowledge and reaction time to be an effective party member to cover the group whenever you are needed.


    Again make sure to frame your answer from the mindset of dungeon diving or raiding but you can still talk about open world parts as well such as sieges and node wars. I'd like to here from veterans to get their stance.

    I'm hoping the summoner is a highly technical class that is hard to master and has a high skill cap.

    Regardless of technical level there is the chance it wont meet everyone's expectations or playstyle that enjoys them.

    I'm super weary of summoner style classes. They're usually too passive and boring. So they are either too strong because of that, or nerfed into obscurity.

    But IS seems to have a great attitude towards gameplay, so I'm hoping it will turn out better than past iterations.

    I've been weary about most of the design since the beginning of the journey. Hoping just leads to disappointment. Who knows, maybe it will check all the boxes for your perception of skill.
  • Liniker wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    rogue or support will be the hardest to play.

    the hardest part about playing a Rogue is finding a group that wants you instead of inviting another mage/archer lol

    You think rogues won't be useful for discovering treasures?

    Here is what Wiki says about it:

    1. All classes are capable adventurers, but rogues excel at delving the deepest dungeons and finding the most hidden of treasures.
    2. Rogues will have utility skills that enable them to discover hidden doors, traps and additional treasures. These will be randomly spawned throughout different times of the day to ensure that encounters are not the same each time.
    n8ohfjz3mtqg.png
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