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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Item Decay
ArchivedUser
Guest
I am not sure why my first post of this topic got deleted after I went to edit the Tags but I am going to post this again because it seems to be gone from the forum.
Let's talk about Item Decay here. The reason I am bringing this up is because I love crafting. Prior to WOW coming out in 2004 I loved crafting in SWG and UO. My wares always sold; most notably my Rocket Launchers in SWG. I knew how to make the best Rocket Launchers on the server. I learned what mats would give me the best stats on my Rocket Launchers. I also loved the fact that they were only so many usages and kept me busy as a crafter. I also used my Rocket Laucnehrs on my commando but that is another story.
These items decayed over time keeping me very busy as a Crafter. In UO I always made armor and Recall scrolls which were my biggest 2 sellers. If not for Item Decay crafting would be all but useless. WOW Proves my point because yes for the first 2 years of WOW Crafting was needed because you needed to make resistance gear but then they took that out. When most people had an item that never decays there is no need to craft these items anymore. Over the years I stopped crafting because there is 0 need for it anymore because people sit and do dungeons for gear and the gear never decays.
I think Ashes needs a Item Decay system. What I mean by that is in SWG my Rocket Launcher would be good for X amount of shots. My Launcher Pistols also would decay but you would be able to repair them so many times. The Armor you wore would also decay after so my repairs. Crafters were always needed because these items had to be replaced every so often. It was not every week or 2 weeks unless you just tried to face smash everything and died 20+ times. But we need some kind of Item Decay system that makes Armor and Weapons Decay. We also need special weapons like in Dark and Light a Staff that will throw a huge rock 2 miles but it only has 5 charges. If we had these mechanics crafters would always be needed and YES players would need to socialize with a crafter to help keep a stock of armor and weapons OR they would need to look at the vendors to buy these items.
Item Decay is good because there should be no raid bosses in this game that should take 8 weeks to learn how to kill like Razorgor
Let's talk about Item Decay here. The reason I am bringing this up is because I love crafting. Prior to WOW coming out in 2004 I loved crafting in SWG and UO. My wares always sold; most notably my Rocket Launchers in SWG. I knew how to make the best Rocket Launchers on the server. I learned what mats would give me the best stats on my Rocket Launchers. I also loved the fact that they were only so many usages and kept me busy as a crafter. I also used my Rocket Laucnehrs on my commando but that is another story.
These items decayed over time keeping me very busy as a Crafter. In UO I always made armor and Recall scrolls which were my biggest 2 sellers. If not for Item Decay crafting would be all but useless. WOW Proves my point because yes for the first 2 years of WOW Crafting was needed because you needed to make resistance gear but then they took that out. When most people had an item that never decays there is no need to craft these items anymore. Over the years I stopped crafting because there is 0 need for it anymore because people sit and do dungeons for gear and the gear never decays.
I think Ashes needs a Item Decay system. What I mean by that is in SWG my Rocket Launcher would be good for X amount of shots. My Launcher Pistols also would decay but you would be able to repair them so many times. The Armor you wore would also decay after so my repairs. Crafters were always needed because these items had to be replaced every so often. It was not every week or 2 weeks unless you just tried to face smash everything and died 20+ times. But we need some kind of Item Decay system that makes Armor and Weapons Decay. We also need special weapons like in Dark and Light a Staff that will throw a huge rock 2 miles but it only has 5 charges. If we had these mechanics crafters would always be needed and YES players would need to socialize with a crafter to help keep a stock of armor and weapons OR they would need to look at the vendors to buy these items.
Item Decay is good because there should be no raid bosses in this game that should take 8 weeks to learn how to kill like Razorgor
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Comments
In regards to your post going missing, it's a known issue with the forums at the moment. Some posts vanish after editing.
In regards to your post going missing, it’s a known issue with the forums at the moment. Some posts vanish after editing.
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Thanks its good to know about the forums.
Its good to see Item Decay being a part of the game. I think we should also focus on making Item Decay well balanced like SWG was. Unless you were a complete moron your gear didnt break fast but it also was not gear you had for months on end. I think my gear broke anywhere from 3 to 6 weeks depending on what I was doing. If I was putting down harvesters and not in combat for several weeks my gear lasted longer, but when I was PVPing gear broke
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@Kassage
Here is what it sounds like gear will work. You will have Several tiers of gear in a node. Let's say 1 - 10 for example. The loot table for bosses will each have a tier based on level of the node and level of the boss. So take a Dragon for example this Dragon is a world boss and tier 10, also take an instance has 5 tier 10 bosses. They all have the same loot tables. These loot tables will also be crafted by crafters of a tier 10 skill level AND if they go down that path to be able to craft that item not all crafters can craft everything. Also they need to get the rare mats to be able to craft these items in the tier 10. So yes you might have that item only for a handful of weeks based on play style but it's a change to drop off a boss plus you could have loads of gold to buy that weapon again also no weapon will be all powerful in all situations just because you get a legendary weapon does not mean it is going to be useful. There is talk about using elemental damage on weapons and having elemental resistances if the axe is a fire axe and you ues a fire axe on a fire elemental your damage will be all but useless. That means bringing the right tool for the job.
The good thing is if done right most baseline gear and medium tier should be a fair price you can stock up on. Its high end gear that not everyone is going to have all the time unless they endlessly farm and that is OK. There shouldnt be balancing everything in the game. People that have 60 hours a week in game to play might always have the best gear. BUT if you are skilled with your social skills you make friends with a good crafter maybe not the highest end crafter, you still might get really high end gear for a lower price but you have to help them get the rare mats which means going and attacking that Dragon that might kill you, not alone you just need to join in to help get the mats. Sometimes it means going and fitting Ore elemental for rare elemental ore.
Dont think of gear in the context of WOW gear where you spend 8 weeks on a raid boss. Think about that you might try to fight the world dragon today and fail but tomorrow you fight him and kill him. Also think about not bringing your best gear to everything. If you are going and fighting Ore Elemental that you can do personally with baseline gear fairly easily you dont take your High end weapon. It makes no sense to do that. If you are fighting the dragon you bring that Axe of 1 shot death. :)
Your highest items should have between 200 and 400 Max durability. This will give you somewhere between 20 to 40 repairs.
Now fighting in PVP or PVE will naturally have durability take damage over the course of time. BUT Death in either PVP or PVE will have a heavy punishment on your item. Death should have your current durability see around a 33.3333% durability loss. For example if I die with a weapon that has 150 of 200 possible durability so that's 66 points of durability lost so now may current Durability is 84 of a max of 200 durability. So you take the Max Durability and multiply it by .3333 which you get 66 Durability loss.
So you die 3 times you will need to repair. Now The 3rd time you die your durability on your item will always be 1. But if you die again or fight something with that item before its repaired durability can go to 0 of 200 max durability and break. So you nee to make sure you repair your gear. NOW, I dont believe you should die in the wild and have to do a corpse run. Thats not the way death should work. You should res at a city you set your home town too or the closest res point in the node. You can pick either.
I do believe players can have repair kits on them made from Crafters. Or be able to see crafters directly and have their gear repaired. Point is if you die a lot your gear will need to be repaired a lot and you will loss gear quickly.
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What you are forgetting is MMORPGs BEFORE WOW had Item Decay and people got along just fine with Item Decay. The problem is "EVERYONE" who has never played MMORPGs before WOW think WOW is the only dam system there is and it will take you countless hours to get the gear you want add to that it made gear have 0 point in the game. It also killed crafting and Player run economies. Sorry but YES gear should break after some time and saying people wouldnt ever use the gear is incorrect.
For example in SWG which had weapons like my Rocket Launchers that had a set number of usages people would buy up by the dozens. It was VERY hard to get all the right mats to make some of my best Rocket Launchers which did about 6K to 8K Per hit. If you use just any mats and didnt worry about how you were making the Rocket Launcher and the parts you might get 800 to 2K damage. O and my Rocket Launchers could be used up in less than 5 minutes. When my Commado Team and I did test runs on NPC AT-STs we used my low end Rocket Launchers we wouldnt use my best Rocket Launchers which could take me weeks to months to get the right mats for them Yet I could make a few hundred of these Rocket Launchers BUT it might take me 2 months to be able to make more of them. So when Did we use my Rocket Launchers? When we attacked player run bases because we would take out the the Player Run base's defenses AND player controlled AT-STs. Add to that my best Commando armor which was designed to deal with AT-ST fire AND Kentic defense for Teras Kasi. That gear also took time to make from a friend in another guild who was our Armorsmith crafter.
Gear was all over the place. You could get a real good Rocket Launcher to drop of a random mob throughout the world. But you focused on CRAFTERS being your main source of gear not what instance do we do today for X amount of stones or making sure people get the gear they want because RNG sucks. Hell Even UO which it was impossible to get a set of the best magical gear yourself had people using that gear. Why? Because while not something every vendor having that for sale there were vendors that seemed to always have sets of invaluable indestructible it just was VERY expensive and NO you didnt take that gear to fight Earth Elemental, you tool that to fight a Champion spawn because the chance of getting an idea which you would make the money back Plus on what you spent on the invaluable indestructible gear was worth it.
This game will not Focus on killing Illidan for his Warglaive of Azzinoth. Yes There will be very rare gear but you dont ware that gear to go grind on mobs for Gold. You ware that rare gear to fight that world boss Dragon that is attacking your node that will drop rare gear like you have and you can sell if you cannot use the gear. Then you use that money to buy something else that is very rare.
You think of it as a big deal when its not because this is not WOW like raiding for gear. Add to that NO you shouldnt have gear that does not decay because you no longer have a player run economy you have an economy controlled by the game and developers. O and if you go back to the old school ways of gear and crafting you will have a lot of real good gear out there. For example in UO a set of Iron Plate armor was between 1K to 10K. Yea some dumb asses would make it expensive. I always was around 1K to 2K, I also had friends I gave free sets to that helped me gather ore for an hour once a week and a percentage of my profit from my items that I crafted. So for an hour of protection some of my friends would get 10K to 100K depending how much of certain ores I got and what sold. I SWG it was the same for helping me with putting down harvestors and protecting me so I could set my harvestors down. There was always very good gear and easy for everyone to get outside of people who wanted to play solo and make no friends.
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What you are forgetting is MMORPGs BEFORE WOW had Item Decay and people got along just fine with Item Decay. The problem is "EVERYONE" who has never played MMORPGs before WOW think WOW is the only dam system there is and it will take you countless hours to get the gear you want add to that it made gear have 0 point in the game. It also killed crafting and Player run economies. Sorry but YES gear should break after some time and saying people wouldnt ever use the gear is incorrect.
For example in SWG which had weapons like my Rocket Launchers that had a set number of usages people would buy up by the dozens. It was VERY hard to get all the right mats to make some of my best Rocket Launchers which did about 6K to 8K Per hit. If you use just any mats and didnt worry about how you were making the Rocket Launcher and the parts you might get 800 to 2K damage. O and my Rocket Launchers could be used up in less than 5 minutes. When my Commado Team and I did test runs on NPC AT-STs we used my low end Rocket Launchers we wouldnt use my best Rocket Launchers which could take me weeks to months to get the right mats for them Yet I could make a few hundred of these Rocket Launchers BUT it might take me 2 months to be able to make more of them. So when Did we use my Rocket Launchers? When we attacked player run bases because we would take out the the Player Run base's defenses AND player controlled AT-STs. Add to that my best Commando armor which was designed to deal with AT-ST fire AND Kentic defense for Teras Kasi. That gear also took time to make from a friend in another guild who was our Armorsmith crafter.
Gear was all over the place. You could get a real good Rocket Launcher to drop of a random mob throughout the world. But you focused on CRAFTERS being your main source of gear not what instance do we do today for X amount of stones or making sure people get the gear they want because RNG sucks. Hell Even UO which it was impossible to get a set of the best magical gear yourself had people using that gear. Why? Because while not something every vendor having that for sale there were vendors that seemed to always have sets of invaluable indestructible it just was VERY expensive and NO you didnt take that gear to fight Earth Elemental, you tool that to fight a Champion spawn because the chance of getting an idea which you would make the money back Plus on what you spent on the invaluable indestructible gear was worth it.
This game will not Focus on killing Illidan for his Warglaive of Azzinoth. Yes There will be very rare gear but you dont ware that gear to go grind on mobs for Gold. You ware that rare gear to fight that world boss Dragon that is attacking your node that will drop rare gear like you have and you can sell if you cannot use the gear. Then you use that money to buy something else that is very rare.
You think of it as a big deal when its not because this is not WOW like raiding for gear. Add to that NO you shouldnt have gear that does not decay because you no longer have a player run economy you have an economy controlled by the game and developers. O and if you go back to the old school ways of gear and crafting you will have a lot of real good gear out there. For example in UO a set of Iron Plate armor was between 1K to 10K. Yea some dumb asses would make it expensive. I always was around 1K to 2K, I also had friends I gave free sets to that helped me gather ore for an hour once a week and a percentage of my profit from my items that I crafted. So for an hour of protection some of my friends would get 10K to 100K depending how much of certain ores I got and what sold. I SWG it was the same for helping me with putting down harvestors and protecting me so I could set my harvestors down. There was always very good gear and easy for everyone to get outside of people who wanted to play solo and make no friends.
[quote quote=5952]What you are saying here is bad for EVERYONE involved for a multitude of reasons. One is because the fact we have uniques in game the fact that they will brake makes no one want to use them so if you want to make a profit or use this blessing that you gave received no one is going to want it for more than a display item (TBH I would be very interested in it as a display items if I can physically display gear) and this would have the same effect of normal gear as the demand go up but the price would plummet as people don’t need these things as a 1 time buy. Steven has said that gear will need to be repaired by a CRAFTER that has sufficient skill to make the weapon in the first place and will require a suitable amount of materials (I don’t remember if he said if when the gear brakes how much % of what it took to craft will be required though) but still enough to make them come back as few crafters will be able to repair the best gear. You seemed to gloss over it but I think have items not have static base stats would be great like in Ark where you can find grades of weapons but in the same grade things can be better or worse but I want it to possibly scale of your like skill level instead.
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What you are forgetting is MMORPGs BEFORE WOW had Item Decay and people got along just fine with Item Decay. The problem is "EVERYONE" who has never played MMORPGs before WOW think WOW is the only dam system there is and it will take you countless hours to get the gear you want add to that it made gear have 0 point in the game. It also killed crafting and Player run economies. Sorry but YES gear should break after some time and saying people wouldnt ever use the gear is incorrect.
For example in SWG which had weapons like my Rocket Launchers that had a set number of usages people would buy up by the dozens. It was VERY hard to get all the right mats to make some of my best Rocket Launchers which did about 6K to 8K Per hit. If you use just any mats and didnt worry about how you were making the Rocket Launcher and the parts you might get 800 to 2K damage. O and my Rocket Launchers could be used up in less than 5 minutes. When my Commado Team and I did test runs on NPC AT-STs we used my low end Rocket Launchers we wouldnt use my best Rocket Launchers which could take me weeks to months to get the right mats for them Yet I could make a few hundred of these Rocket Launchers BUT it might take me 2 months to be able to make more of them. So when Did we use my Rocket Launchers? When we attacked player run bases because we would take out the the Player Run base's defenses AND player controlled AT-STs. Add to that my best Commando armor which was designed to deal with AT-ST fire AND Kentic defense for Teras Kasi. That gear also took time to make from a friend in another guild who was our Armorsmith crafter.
Gear was all over the place. You could get a real good Rocket Launcher to drop of a random mob throughout the world. But you focused on CRAFTERS being your main source of gear not what instance do we do today for X amount of stones or making sure people get the gear they want because RNG sucks. Hell Even UO which it was impossible to get a set of the best magical gear yourself had people using that gear. Why? Because while not something every vendor having that for sale there were vendors that seemed to always have sets of invaluable indestructible it just was VERY expensive and NO you didnt take that gear to fight Earth Elemental, you tool that to fight a Champion spawn because the chance of getting an idea which you would make the money back Plus on what you spent on the invaluable indestructible gear was worth it.
This game will not Focus on killing Illidan for his Warglaive of Azzinoth. Yes There will be very rare gear but you dont ware that gear to go grind on mobs for Gold. You ware that rare gear to fight that world boss Dragon that is attacking your node that will drop rare gear like you have and you can sell if you cannot use the gear. Then you use that money to buy something else that is very rare.
You think of it as a big deal when its not because this is not WOW like raiding for gear. Add to that NO you shouldnt have gear that does not decay because you no longer have a player run economy you have an economy controlled by the game and developers. O and if you go back to the old school ways of gear and crafting you will have a lot of real good gear out there. For example in UO a set of Iron Plate armor was between 1K to 10K. Yea some dumb asses would make it expensive. I always was around 1K to 2K, I also had friends I gave free sets to that helped me gather ore for an hour once a week and a percentage of my profit from my items that I crafted. So for an hour of protection some of my friends would get 10K to 100K depending how much of certain ores I got and what sold. I SWG it was the same for helping me with putting down harvestors and protecting me so I could set my harvestors down. There was always very good gear and easy for everyone to get outside of people who wanted to play solo and make no friends.
What you are forgetting is MMORPGs BEFORE WOW had Item Decay and people got along just fine with Item Decay. The problem is "EVERYONE" who has never played MMORPGs before WOW think WOW is the only dam system there is and it will take you countless hours to get the gear you want add to that it made gear have 0 point in the game. It also killed crafting and Player run economies. Sorry but YES gear should break after some time and saying people wouldnt ever use the gear is incorrect.
For example in SWG which had weapons like my Rocket Launchers that had a set number of usages people would buy up by the dozens. It was VERY hard to get all the right mats to make some of my best Rocket Launchers which did about 6K to 8K Per hit. If you use just any mats and didnt worry about how you were making the Rocket Launcher and the parts you might get 800 to 2K damage. O and my Rocket Launchers could be used up in less than 5 minutes. When my Commado Team and I did test runs on NPC AT-STs we used my low end Rocket Launchers we wouldnt use my best Rocket Launchers which could take me weeks to months to get the right mats for them Yet I could make a few hundred of these Rocket Launchers BUT it might take me 2 months to be able to make more of them. So when Did we use my Rocket Launchers? When we attacked player run bases because we would take out the the Player Run base's defenses AND player controlled AT-STs. Add to that my best Commando armor which was designed to deal with AT-ST fire AND Kentic defense for Teras Kasi. That gear also took time to make from a friend in another guild who was our Armorsmith crafter.
Gear was all over the place. You could get a real good Rocket Launcher to drop of a random mob throughout the world. But you focused on CRAFTERS being your main source of gear not what instance do we do today for X amount of stones or making sure people get the gear they want because RNG sucks. Hell Even UO which it was impossible to get a set of the best magical gear yourself had people using that gear. Why? Because while not something every vendor having that for sale there were vendors that seemed to always have sets of invaluable indestructible it just was VERY expensive and NO you didnt take that gear to fight Earth Elemental, you tool that to fight a Champion spawn because the chance of getting an idea which you would make the money back Plus on what you spent on the invaluable indestructible gear was worth it.
This game will not Focus on killing Illidan for his Warglaive of Azzinoth. Yes There will be very rare gear but you dont ware that gear to go grind on mobs for Gold. You ware that rare gear to fight that world boss Dragon that is attacking your node that will drop rare gear like you have and you can sell if you cannot use the gear. Then you use that money to buy something else that is very rare.
You think of it as a big deal when its not because this is not WOW like raiding for gear. Add to that NO you shouldnt have gear that does not decay because you no longer have a player run economy you have an economy controlled by the game and developers. O and if you go back to the old school ways of gear and crafting you will have a lot of real good gear out there. For example in UO a set of Iron Plate armor was between 1K to 10K. Yea some dumb asses would make it expensive. I always was around 1K to 2K, I also had friends I gave free sets to that helped me gather ore for an hour once a week and a percentage of my profit from my items that I crafted. So for an hour of protection some of my friends would get 10K to 100K depending how much of certain ores I got and what sold. I SWG it was the same for helping me with putting down harvestors and protecting me so I could set my harvestors down. There was always very good gear and easy for everyone to get outside of people who wanted to play solo and make no friends.
What you are forgetting is MMORPGs before WOW had Item Decay and people got along just fine with Item Decay. The problem is "EVERYONE" who has never played MMORPGs before WOW think WOW is the only dam system there is and it will take you countless hours to get the gear you want add to that it made gear have 0 point in the game. It also killed crafting and Player run economies. Sorry but YES gear should break after some time and saying people wouldnt ever use the gear is incorrect.
For example in SWG which had weapons like my Rocket Launchers that had a set number of usages people would buy up by the dozens. It was VERY hard to get all the right mats to make some of my best Rocket Launchers which did about 6K to 8K Per hit. If you use just any mats and didnt worry about how you were making the Rocket Launcher and the parts you might get 800 to 2K damage. O and my Rocket Launchers could be used up in less than 5 minutes. When my Commado Team and I did test runs on NPC AT-STs we used my low end Rocket Launchers we wouldnt use my best Rocket Launchers which could take me weeks to months to get the right mats for them Yet I could make a few hundred of these Rocket Launchers BUT it might take me 2 months to be able to make more of them. So when Did we use my Rocket Launchers? When we attacked player run bases because we would take out the the Player Run base's defenses AND player controlled AT-STs. Add to that my best Commando armor which was designed to deal with AT-ST fire AND Kentic defense for Teras Kasi. That gear also took time to make from a friend in another guild who was our Armorsmith crafter.
Gear was all over the place. You could get a real good Rocket Launcher to drop of a random mob throughout the world. But you focused on CRAFTERS being your main source of gear not what instance do we do today for X amount of stones or making sure people get the gear they want because RNG sucks. Hell Even UO which it was impossible to get a set of the best magical gear yourself had people using that gear. Why? Because while not something every vendor having that for sale there were vendors that seemed to always have sets of invaluable indestructible it just was VERY expensive and NO you didnt take that gear to fight Earth Elemental, you tool that to fight a Champion spawn because the chance of getting an idea which you would make the money back Plus on what you spent on the invaluable indestructible gear was worth it.
This game will not Focus on killing Illidan for his Warglaive of Azzinoth. Yes There will be very rare gear but you dont ware that gear to go grind on mobs for Gold. You ware that rare gear to fight that world boss Dragon that is attacking your node that will drop rare gear like you have and you can sell if you cannot use the gear. Then you use that money to buy something else that is very rare.
Also for Baseline gear that most people will use it will not be as expensive as you think. For example in UO a full suit of Plate Iron was about 2k to 10K. The price was a large gap because some players try to rip other players off. This is the way of MMORPGs before WOW. You had Vendors like me who sold mine for between 2K and 3K depending how fast they were selling. If I tried to push too much more my sales would go down. Now I had friends who would help me go mine ore, well they protected me while I mined ore. I paid them a % of the profits for the week and they kept me alive and kept what they killed. I also threw them sets of gear I made if they wanted it.
I also had a friend who did the same as an Armor smith in SWG. I was a Weapons smith in SWG and my main top end items were my Rocket Launchers. My friends got them for free because they helped me out with harvestors. I sold my best ones for Millions of Credits which was not hard to get in SWG. My other weapons were all mid range to good but nothing that was top end. All those weapons sold for fair prices.
People had your mainstream and really good gear. Its the very rare gear that yes not everyone had and yes only used it at certain times. Like if you ever played minecraft. You dont go mining with heavily enchanted Diamond armor and sword unless you have endless amounts of diamonds and enchants to replace it with a whim. You pick and choice when and what to ware. I never wore my invaluable indestructible Plate Mail armor that cost me about 40 hours of farming gold as a warrior in Shame killing Earth Elemental just to kill more Earth Elementals. They didnt drop but around 500 gold, but I did ware the invaluable indestructible Plate when fighting Balrons with my friends and made 2K+ magic weapons per kill killing Balrons.
It's Risk vs Reward. You take your Weapon that was expensive and hard to get out when you are fighting the Dragon they talked about in the latest video that was attacking the node. That Sucker should have piles of gold and loot on him or at least a cache of loot in his cave. Then you take that loot and buy something else that is rare in the game. You put that stuff away for Average everyday stuff. You also might pull it out for the PVP sieges and maybe the rate at which durability is lost during a siege is lowered but you still take some durability loss.
i for one would never even consider buying or playing a game with item decay on that scale. My epic magic imbued dragonscale fire sword of awesomeness will decay in 7d if i go kill a lot of mobs during that span? lolol, /slaps knee, /falls out of chair. i wouldn't even give the game a chance.
I would rather they develop a system that is fun, interactive and socially a thing. some of these guys from everquest so i'm sure they know what's up with crafting, they most certainly do if they had experience with eq2 (i've never crafted anything in any mmo since crafting in that one) and it had some room for some improvements. but makinga crafting system where the crafters make the same things over and over and over and over and over and over and over is what you want? lol, sounds a little bit to mundane asian mmo activity to be any fun. how bout we go on an adventure and find you a rare item crafting recipe that takes epic resources from adventurers and/or other crafters to participate in making components for said item and then call that a thing.
as an example of this last comment: Blacksmith gets an epic recipe for a blade, and artisen gets an epic recipe for a hilt, a gemcutter gets an epic recipe for some magic gem, a leatherworker gets an epic recipe for some magic wrap that is impervious to heat. now all these items can be assembled by a master craftsman to form my epic dragonscale fire sword of awesomeness. this way all craftsmen are able to be involved in creating said item. (this was just a rough idea off the top of my head)
Even in the real world, 90% of an Artisan's job is repair and upkeep.
Ingame this will keep Crafters a vital part of the community.
I hope that they will have a two style dmg system like they had in SWG, think Dulling and Chiping. While out and about the items wear down from use, the lower the items health the more likely the Durability will be reduced.
Think Damage and Wounding
Damage can be fixed semi-on the go, but Wounds need special doctors.
Wear should be an easier fix. Hunter takes the item to a crafter and they simply sharpen. Durability should also be fixable but with many more resources required.
This way hunters don't have to worry about permanently losing their uber rare items, they just have to invest on the upkeep.
i for one would never even consider buying or playing a game with item decay on that scale. My epic magic imbued dragonscale fire sword of awesomeness will decay in 7d if i go kill a lot of mobs during that span? lolol, /slaps knee, /falls out of chair. i wouldn’t even give the game a chance.
I would rather they develop a system that is fun, interactive and socially a thing. some of these guys from everquest so i’m sure they know what’s up with crafting, they most certainly do if they had experience with eq2 (i’ve never crafted anything in any mmo since crafting in that one) and it had some room for some improvements. but makinga crafting system where the crafters make the same things over and over and over and over and over and over and over is what you want? lol, sounds a little bit to mundane asian mmo activity to be any fun. how bout we go on an adventure and find you a rare item crafting recipe that takes epic resources from adventurers and/or other crafters to participate in making components for said item and then call that a thing.
as an example of this last comment: Blacksmith gets an epic recipe for a blade, and artisen gets an epic recipe for a hilt, a gemcutter gets an epic recipe for some magic gem, a leatherworker gets an epic recipe for some magic wrap that is impervious to heat. now all these items can be assembled by a master craftsman to form my epic dragonscale fire sword of awesomeness. this way all craftsmen are able to be involved in creating said item. (this was just a rough idea off the top of my head)
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These developers also spent a lot of time on SWG which has the exact system I am talking about. People got along great with item decay there and crafters easily made stacks of gear that took little effort because they use their crafting machines to do so. I could easily put out med level items weekly that people would buy. Crafters LOVED SWG because the system worked for everyone. Have you played SWG? If not then you dont understand the system I am talking about. Again i didnt use my best Rocket launchers which I only had a dozen or so at a time because the mats were hard to get that were high end quality for just anything. You should know what you are going to fight and bring the right tool for the job. Not have 1 weapon for months or years on end unless the game is designed like EQ2/Vanilla WOW because then crafters become useless and people just focus on raiding. That is the last thing I want for this game. If I want to do the raiding treadmill I will stay in FFXIV.
Gear needs to be fluid or you will have the same problem you have in every MMORPG, a lack of crafters because crafting means nothing. If the focus is always around raid drops then the game turns into Raid X times a week.
Even in the real world, 90% of an Artisan’s job is repair and upkeep.
Ingame this will keep Crafters a vital part of the community.
I hope that they will have a two style dmg system like they had in SWG, think Dulling and Chiping. While out and about the items wear down from use, the lower the items health the more likely the Durability will be reduced.
Think Damage and Wounding
Damage can be fixed semi-on the go, but Wounds need special doctors.
Wear should be an easier fix. Hunter takes the item to a crafter and they simply sharpen. Durability should also be fixable but with many more resources required.
This way hunters don’t have to worry about permanently losing their uber rare items, they just have to invest on the upkeep.[/quote]
What I am saying is there should be no high end rare item and if there is people shouldnt be using that stuff to farm mobs for gold or something like that. They should take that item and do instances, or fight world bosses with that item. If a person has some high end items then what happens if there is no item decay they will get bored because there is nothing else to obtain. Then they will want more powerful items added and that cycle will become like the raid treadmill. But if they have to choose what items they are taking into an instance or fighting a dragon they understand there is risk vs reward, having an item never decay where they can endlessly grind mobs and repair then you either create a treadmill or they get bored.
My problem is I dont see Ashes being like FFXI/EQ2/Vanilla WOW where you have raid tiers or new raid content with better gear in a new expansion because their focus in Ashes is more BDO/ArcheAge like but with instances thrown in from WOW and world bosses from EQ/FFXI.
You almost make it sound as if there is no item decay, people won't buy any crafted gear which is completely false.
Raid gear and dungeons gear breaking would be a pretty significant set back in terms of character progression. Having to carry 5-6 different weapons is more of a hassle than anything. It is not compeling gameplay.
Wow crafting has made the "mistake" of making crafting gear so bad compared to raid gear that there are hardly any reasons to buy it.
FFXIV took crafting and drove it in a much better direction. Crafters are able to craft gear that is much closer to raid gear level/strength(better in some cases). In FFXIV, crafted gear is superior to questing gear, and most of the time dungeon gear too. Crafting High Quality gear will yeild gear that competes with raid gear even though it is a few ilvl lower than said raid gear.
Saying that without decay, nobody will buy crafted gear is just not true. When you look at the whole community on a server. Crafted gear has it's place for everybody that doesn't raid or grinds dungeons everyday. Beside, raid gear only serves a very small portion of the community.
Crafting can be and most definitely will be relevant even without item decay, as long as they don't make it absolutely terrible compared to questing/dungeon/raid gear.
You almost make it sound as if there is no item decay, people won’t buy any crafted gear which is completely false.
Raid gear and dungeons gear breaking would be a pretty significant set back in terms of character progression. Having to carry 5-6 different weapons is more of a hassle than anything. It is not compeling gameplay.
Wow crafting has made the “mistake” of making crafting gear so bad compared to raid gear that there are hardly any reasons to buy it.
FFXIV took crafting and drove it in a much better direction. Crafters are able to craft gear that is much closer to raid gear level/strength(better in some cases). In FFXIV, crafted gear is superior to questing gear, and most of the time dungeon gear too. Crafting High Quality gear will yeild gear that competes with raid gear even though it is a few ilvl lower than said raid gear.
Saying that without decay, nobody will buy crafted gear is just not true. When you look at the whole community on a server. Crafted gear has it’s place for everybody that doesn’t raid or grinds dungeons everyday. Beside, raid gear only serves a very small portion of the community.
Crafting can be and most definitely will be relevant even without item decay, as long as they don’t make it absolutely terrible compared to questing/dungeon/raid gear.
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You say its not true but here is the deal someone from my guild Crafts in FFXIV. Yes the gear is closer to raid gear. But here is the problem is that their gear that they make that are item level 220 and 250 HQ Green gear does not sell anymore. They sold the bulk of the gear that they crafted in the first 2 to 3 months of 220 gear coming out Yea they still sell some now but its rare that they dont bother anymore. In September 250 gear came out and by Christmas they stop selling most of the 250 gear. Now they might sell a piece here or there to FC members but rarely sell something off the market board now. This is the same god dam boring ass crafting system in every other modern MMORPG. It has to stop.
You are suggesting keeping with the same train that has lead these MMORPGs into the toilet for crafters since WOW. No I do expect someone to buy the same gear they had on again because you cutout an entire part of the MMORPG community in people who want to spend time crafting endlessly. YOU CANNOT DO THIS IN ANY MMORPG SINCE WOW. That is because the entire design of MMORPGs is people keep their gear forever and they spent endless hours running Dungeons or PVP arenas for gear. Yea Crafting gear helps out raiders for a whole 4 to 6 months in a 24 month time period for crafters.
There is No way to make crafted gear important without item decay. Just keep loads of gear that you got and pass it down to alts, now your alts dont need to buy gear. So Alts will not come into play when buying crafted gear. You can say well new people will always becoming in and they will need crafted gear. Wrong most MMORPGS now do not have a steady inflow of new players, its rare to see new players in games now a days. Even at end game there will be a rush to get the crafted gear much like today in FFXIV and then after a large percentage of the population have it they will stop buying in.
I been around MMORPGs since the start. I seen what Item Decay can do. YES it sucks when an item breaks, you know how many special weapons I busted in UO, always seemed to find another. Same with SWG I always seemed to get the gear I wanted. Thats because I had a network of friends. The difference is that most people think that they will be focusing on killing shit to be able to get their gear because either they are waiting for RNG to work out or they are getting Tokens to get the gear they want. And yes like you they dont want to be bothered by carrying so much gear. Thing is You should carry more than 1 weapon on you because since we streamlined MMORPGs with WOW people only want 1 weapon and that streamlines combat. Players should need to pick resistances they want to protect from, this means that in PVP if you are fighting someone with Fire resist your flaming sword should do so little damage that if you dont swap it out then you should die. Yes you should swap weapons on combat and be forced to have 2 or 3 weapons.
I am very tied of MMORPGs that cannot get over the fact that Crafting should be a thing again and yes players should always be on the look out for extra gear or weapons to hold on to because their gear should break. Its not catering to a niche group of players since it was used in most if not all MMORPGs prior to WOW and we had MMORPGS with strong communities of 250K to 500K+ of MMORPG players. Its only that WOW streamlined it for the last 13 years people think there is no other way.
Crafted gear never sells well in games where it doesn't need to be replaced. Yes, some buy it but not at a frequency where you could make crafting your primary playstyle. It's not that hard to realize that people would not need crafters as much when they only need to buy there products once.
You are thinking of this in the context of a game like wow and FFXIV. This system would not be the best for games like that which are focused on pve progression. In the game he is proposing, gear would be easier to get and not be the primary focus of "end game" progression. Good gear would be valuable and you wouldn't want to waist it but it shouldn't be a big deal when it finally breaks.
Crafters should be able to make that sword and some should be able to change the Fire Damage enchantment from Fire to Arcane, or Water, or Nature. What ever you want. Now that does not mean that the market will be flooded with that sword. Some very key mat or 2 needed to make that sword should be hard to come by. BUT a crafter like myself would end up keeping a stock of them and only putting out so many swords or crafting vs special order. Not every crafter will be able to make that sword you want but there should be more than enough if you spend a little time either (A looking on the market (B making friends with crafters your downtime replacing or having a backup weapon. You only loose either time or gold. Gold if you dont want to help a crafter by fighting the dragon to get the mats he needs.
I want a heavy trade and bartering system were people are not just get their shit and have it until the next major raid comes out or next major expansion comes out.
Crafted gear never sells well in games where it doesn’t need to be replaced. Yes, some buy it but not at a frequency where you could make crafting your primary playstyle. It’s not that hard to realize that people would not need crafters as much when they only need to buy there products once.
You are thinking of this in the context of a game like wow and FFXIV. This system would not be the best for games like that which are focused on pve progression. In the game he is proposing, gear would be easier to get and not be the primary focus of “end game” progression. Good gear would be valuable and you wouldn’t want to waist it but it shouldn’t be a big deal when it finally breaks.
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Yea and I like I just said if there was a handful of server unique items and they dont break. I am cool with that. The items should be so unique that the drop rate is so low that no one tries to even farm for the item. Think that 5 or 10 people on the server that has been up and running for 2 years only have it because its that rare of a drop. That does not bug me. What bugs me is coping WOW and FFXIV and pasting it here. Gear should for the most part be fairly easy to get even some of the best stuff. But it should break. The key in keeping some of the best gear is dont waste it on stupid stuff like gold farming and making friend with a crafter or know where that crafter's node is to buy it again. Also help crafters get the very hard to get mats and help them keep a stock. Often times we will give you a percent of our profits from those mats.
It doesn't feel good to lose to someone because they won the lottery. I don't want my success in a game to be dictated by how lucky i get.
Instead of having super rare special gear that only a few people get because of luck, i'd rather a gear system that gives players more options. Instead of seeing a player with a super rare piece of gear, i'd rather see a player using gear most people don't use in a clever way.
I want to have to think about the gear i'm using. Right now, there is no thought that goes into gear. It's always obvious which one is better. There will always be a meta but with a little balance, there could be a variety of different viable options for gear with different combinations of stats, passives, activatables, and skill augmentations.
It doesn’t feel good to lose to someone because they won the lottery. I don’t want my success in a game to be dictated by how lucky i get.
Instead of having super rare special gear that only a few people get because of luck, i’d rather a gear system that gives players more options. Instead of seeing a player with a super rare piece of gear, i’d rather see a player using gear most people don’t use in a clever way.
I want to have to think about the gear i’m using. Right now, there is no thought that goes into gear. It’s always obvious which one is better. There will always be a meta but with a little balance, there could be a variety of different viable options for gear with different combinations of stats, passives, activatables, and skill augmentations.
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That way of thinking about gear is good too. Yea there will be best in slot for the way you play for example if you are a rogue that uses poisons and plays to keep your targets close so you can kill them using a Battleaxe that takes a long time to swing is useless for you but poisoned daggers would be best for you or a sword that is poisoned. Gear overall shouldnt be streamlined just for the shake of balance and making gear easy. I also agree with you that having such over powering gear makes people quit because they are little crybabies that they do not have the gear as well. Everyone seems like they need to be some special snowflake now a days and also wonders why MMORPGs are a pile of shit. Sorry I have no filter with this group of people.
I dont mind super rare items just to make some like Sandals of walking on water that just make you walk on water. Or some Orc WarAxe that can be glamoured to someones Axe that might have a real different look. I would rather that than have everything on the cash shop because it these items might make you lucky but you might not want it and sell it for 100 million gold. Someone who has the gold might buy it just to say they have it. Then have some equivalents in the cash shop. That also might piss people off that feel they need to be like everyone else though.
i can only talk form a PVE point of view here since raiding is usually most of my activities in mmos. I can't see item decay be a profitable thing on that end of the game.
Let's say for example that going through 3 hours of 10 man raiding progression means you end up using 2 weapons(armors too?). One night of raiding cost the group 20 weapons. For the first few bosses, that's fine since the gear required to kill them comes from "pre raid" content/crafting. Although, once you start having a few bosses on farm, you get raid items(wether they are weapons or crafting mats). From experience, in a 10man setup, a boss would yeild 2 pieces of loot. So out of 20 weapons lost, the raid as only aquired 2. Again, it wouldn't matter as much on the first few bosses but once a group reaches the deeper part of a raid where the upgrades are needed to get through certain mechanics, they just wont be able to do it unless they farm the first few bosses for X amounts of lockouts to get enough mats/gear to make it through progression.
This is all hypothetical stuff from me as i've only discovered this game this week and am still reading the #intrepid_answers on discord so there's alot of stuff i may have not read about yet that is known to others.
If there was a decay, would it be something like; you can only repair it so many times before it breaks? or once its durability reaches 0, it's over?
Personally, if item decay was something going through and something that every groups of the game has to deal with, i would probably also like to see items such as "repair stones".
Items that could have rare crafting material dependancies that could allow a player to repair its item without it affecting how many times the item can be repaired. That way i could decide on which weapon i want to keep and get those repair items to keep that weapon and just use other weapons for dailies and everything else that i would rather just buy a new weapon rather than buying /farming mats for repair stones.
i can only talk form a PVE point of view here since raiding is usually most of my activities in mmos. I can’t see item decay be a profitable thing on that end of the game.
Let’s say for example that going through 3 hours of 10 man raiding progression means you end up using 2 weapons(armors too?). One night of raiding cost the group 20 weapons. For the first few bosses, that’s fine since the gear required to kill them comes from “pre raid” content/crafting. Although, once you start having a few bosses on farm, you get raid items(wether they are weapons or crafting mats). From experience, in a 10man setup, a boss would yeild 2 pieces of loot. So out of 20 weapons lost, the raid as only aquired 2. Again, it wouldn’t matter as much on the first few bosses but once a group reaches the deeper part of a raid where the upgrades are needed to get through certain mechanics, they just wont be able to do it unless they farm the first few bosses for X amounts of lockouts to get enough mats/gear to make it through progression.
This is all hypothetical stuff from me as i’ve only discovered this game this week and am still reading the #intrepid_answers on discord so there’s alot of stuff i may have not read about yet that is known to others.
If there was a decay, would it be something like; you can only repair it so many times before it breaks? or once its durability reaches 0, it’s over?
Personally, if item decay was something going through and something that every groups of the game has to deal with, i would probably also like to see items such as “repair stones”.
Items that could have rare crafting material dependancies that could allow a player to repair its item without it affecting how many times the item can be repaired. That way i could decide on which weapon i want to keep and get those repair items to keep that weapon and just use other weapons for dailies and everything else that i would rather just buy a new weapon rather than buying /farming mats for repair stones.
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Welcome to the Ashes forum. Good to see a new face.
Yes if you have not played MMORPGs before WOW it's hard for you to understand where we are coming from because you are looking at streamlined games that basically have 2 towers for getting gear. PVE and PVP and crafted gear is just a stepping stone that gets quickly ignored. PVE you get systems like WOW and FFXIV where you spend hours and endless hours doing dungeons for tokes to buy gear or gear from RNG. You have the same system in place for PVP.
We are saying that these 2 systems do nothing but build a treadmill to make you want to get on the game to run on the treadmill just to keep up with everyone else. What we want is we want you to come online not to focus on just doing your raids 3 days a week for 4 hours a night. Or PVP 4 days a week for 3 hours. We want you to come on and play the content because you like that content. Not to get on a treadmill. If you take a way the focus on needing to do Dungeons or Raids just to get gear you might jump on to do Dungeons or Raids because you like doing this content. Gear becomes a plus because you can buy that same gear from crafters, Though they need the special mats from these bosses you kill to make the gear. So in a sense you are doing it for the gear but the gear should be way more prevalent and not something you are only focusing on.
Just like in World PVP you are not killing a person to take their gear. You are also not getting some Token to get gear. Yes you will get some the resources they have on them but its not enough unless it is high end mats where you could sell enough of and buy gear. So for people who PVP will need a way to get gear and that is with gold. By making it that the focus is not on Arenas for PVPers to get gear the focus ends up on Crafting.
When the focus ends up on crafting Gear becomes way more prevalent, and yes some crafters will make better gear than others because their skill in obtaining the mats or they have more time. No big deal. I really like the idea of having mats for making gear off the bosses with having treasure chest through an instance for people to pick up gear. Yes you need to kill a boss to get to the treasure chest BUT it might or might not drop gear. If it does not drop gear then it drops for crafted mats to help out crafters and piles of gold. The Gold you can use to buy really good gear.
When items break you just replace them.
Yes crafters should make repair kits. A Blacksmith makes a blacksmith repair kit and so on. No NPC click a button and repair bs. You should also be able to give your gear to a crafter in a non trade window where a crafter can repair your gear directly without the mats and repair it to take less of a max durability loss. Makes you make friends with crafters :)
Everything here makes you more engaged in the community as a player because you are going to want to do them dungeons and raids not to do them as a raid grind treadmill but to help another player out that will help you out with gear. Its more of a one hand washes the other setup. If done right gear will not be a problem because there should be no all powerful unique gear. I can see having PVP seasons with the Arena where a Sword will have the same stats as the best swords in the game But it has a different look and there is only 1 of that for Arena 6 Season winner lol. That should really be it.