It sounds like Items will break but not be completely gone, but it will be useless until you fix the piece of gear with the components that it took to make the item. I just wonder if it might be easier to just pick up new gear.
I agree with the OP for a game to have a proper economy of items teirs and the likes one cannot have just creation without the destruction of said item say for example we have 3 teirs of gear in a game where gear cannot be destroyed after a while teir 1 and 2 gear becomes useless for all but low level players who simply do not have access to better meaning that after a while the teir 3 gear would have lost all meaning because a large population of the player base has access to it, in a system where the gear can be destroyed the Teir one stuff is likely still going to be plentiful due to the ease of making and the access to the resources it requires to make and is usefull due to this abundance, teir 2 gear would be preferred but also be a fairly significant loss if its lost, teir 3 would be not easy to create/find but would be in suck low population due to it being lost to the world before a new set can be crafted or found this makes these sets of armor truely Epic finds or crafts because they are a better than the teir 2 and also more limited, i find the idea of Epic gear looses all epicness when every in your local area has it.
Just so people know where iam coming from the MMO i came from is Eve Online while not perfect eve had a good economy as everything that was built was destroyable in Eve if you flew a ship into combat and died that ship was gone and at best you got back was a fraction of the cost of the ship via insurance frankly i would prefer gear loss in this sence where player X kills player Y then player X can loot Player Ys corpse with all of the gear that player Y was wearing having a chance to be destroyed with the end result being Player X receives a what ever survives of what they had equiped and player Y looses everything they had equiped either way, however i do not think that such a system would be nessesery for the game to succeed.
What the game does need however is Destruction to offset the Creation process, we cannot have one without the other a game with only destruction would be mindless and risk free while a game with only creation leads to too much abundance which devalues the items thus making another risk free environment, the OPs idea could work as a method of adding some destruction however iam not certain if 33% per death is enough of a sink to prevent a abundance forming.
[quote quote=17313]I agree with the OP for a game to have a proper economy of items teirs and the likes one cannot have just creation without the destruction of said item say for example we have 3 teirs of gear in a game where gear cannot be destroyed after a while teir 1 and 2 gear becomes useless for all but low level players who simply do not have access to better meaning that after a while the teir 3 gear would have lost all meaning because a large population of the player base has access to it, in a system where the gear can be destroyed the Teir one stuff is likely still going to be plentiful due to the ease of making and the access to the resources it requires to make and is usefull due to this abundance, teir 2 gear would be preferred but also be a fairly significant loss if its lost, teir 3 would be not easy to create/find but would be in suck low population due to it being lost to the world before a new set can be crafted or found this makes these sets of armor truely Epic finds or crafts because they are a better than the teir 2 and also more limited, i find the idea of Epic gear looses all epicness when every in your local area has it.
Just so people know where iam coming from the MMO i came from is Eve Online while not perfect eve had a good economy as everything that was built was destroyable in Eve if you flew a ship into combat and died that ship was gone and at best you got back was a fraction of the cost of the ship via insurance frankly i would prefer gear loss in this sence where player X kills player Y then player X can loot Player Ys corpse with all of the gear that player Y was wearing having a chance to be destroyed with the end result being Player X receives a what ever survives of what they had equiped and player Y looses everything they had equiped either way, however i do not think that such a system would be nessesery for the game to succeed.
What the game does need however is Destruction to offset the Creation process, we cannot have one without the other a game with only destruction would be mindless and risk free while a game with only creation leads to too much abundance which devalues the items thus making another risk free environment, the OPs idea could work as a method of adding some destruction however iam not certain if 33% per death is enough of a sink to prevent a abundance forming.
[/quote]
I love SWG gear system because as a weaponsmith I always had people buying my rocket launchers as well as other weapons. People needed that gear all the time. Some gear was better than others but there was so much gear on the market you just needed to know who had what. You also made friends with crafters. I understand the feeling of people losing something that takes days or weeks to get, but I dont think gear should be that way. I am even of the mind that Ships should be destroyed if destroyed in battle. This would keep crafters very busy and crafters very happy because we will not be useless for most of the game.
If item degradation is added to the game a small chance must be added on every death of any character to drop equipment. If items are as easy to obtain as in UO, item degradation is fine. If items are as difficult and all-powerful as they are in BDO.... ya no thanks
Ideally the best way for ashes to go is as close to the UO system as possible. A stable economy and overall health of multiple playstyles requires all crafting types to be viable (from the looks of siege and node wars, certain crafting and engineering will always be in need) but they also run the risk of inflation and market cornering.
[quote quote=9788]How would you like it to work hard for a car, only for it to break. Have to get back to work only to pay for that car to break another time. It’s a shitty system that won’t fly in the real world, so it probably wont in the game world.[/quote]
Ummm.... Is it me or is that how real life actually works. Everything breaks.. eventually. Item decay is a good thing in my opinion. As long as its not like 1 week or something. Its gotta decay according to how good it is. High tier stuff should take longer to decay. You can extend its life by taking it to a crafter and perform maintenance on it, like in real life. Which will make crafters more important. Win / Win.
Played since UO, and I feel for both sides of the argument on decay and epic weapons/armor of awesomeness and not wanting to lose it. So there can be a happy medium. Can do it a few ways, since they talked about for example fire weapons doesn't work vs fire monsters and so forth, have the ability to lock the weapon so that when it loses durability it doesn't break but does need repairs (crafting repair kits) While your other toys that are not your favorite will break after long periods of use . The other way is at a certain item level (example, epic/legendary) they already have the built in non-break when their durability reaches 0, but again need repair kit/visit the blacksmith/armor smith. Be like WoW's Non-trade window for enchanting. The smith still using the materials, still doing business. If multiple armor sets are needed will still be selling and repairing.
Well steven has already said material are finite and not an endless pit. So square that circle. See kickstarter.
So 1. No decay. Everyone builds everything they want until the materials run out. Nothing left to create new stuff with. Crafters/Gatherers/Traders Redundant 2. Allow deconstructing. Now you can recycle equipment. But you have to destroy to create. Gatherers still redundant. 3. Allow votive offerings. Now your (finite) materials can go back into the system and be harvested. Crafting and gathering fully functional.
Our modern economy depends on repairs or upgrades. And when materials run out in the real world, when we have plundered all it resource, there will only be recycling. You will HAVE TO destroy old stuff to create new stuff.
We definitely need items breaking from use. When I was playing 7 days to die, the most amazing thing was forgetting to fix my axe and breaking it into pieces having to go craft a whole new one. Then they took it out so now when you hit 0 it just becomes a useless item unless you repair, kinda like "oh you forgot to repair? no problem bro, we got you". I HATE THAT. It was better when you didn't pay attention and it broke and you had to go make a new one.
I am huge into crafting. I have always wanted a game that has amazing crafting and unique items. I want to be able to make a certain item a certain way and people will come to me for that specific style of item. NO GAME has this, not even star wars galaxies. I have yet to play a game with a crafting system worth using. Hopefully, this game can.
Item decay is a necessity. Not only for the economy but also to prevent powerhouses in going on endless tyraids because their armor and weapon have infinite ammo or durability.
Siege and raids should cost people more than just a respawn. War is not free. If protecting your node cost resources, calling for war should also cost resources.
I would like to see ammo system a thing too. Not the infinite ammo we see nowadays in mmos for archer and gunner classes.
And repair with decay is fine. I would like to see master artisan creat gear with higher durability if they honed their skills and have the resources to do so. Thus we seek out artisans than can either craft 400 durabilty average armor or 200 durabilty elite armor. A niche for crafters so that no one crafter is the same as the next one.
[quote quote=18253]Item decay is a necessity. Not only for the economy but also to prevent powerhouses in going on endless tyraids because their armor and weapon have infinite ammo or durability.
Siege and raids should cost people more than just a respawn. War is not free. If protecting your node cost resources, calling for war should also cost resources.
I would like to see ammo system a thing too. Not the infinite ammo we see nowadays in mmos for archer and gunner classes.
And repair with decay is fine. I would like to see master artisan creat gear with higher durability if they honed their skills and have the resources to do so. Thus we seek out artisans than can either craft 400 durabilty average armor or 200 durabilty elite armor. A niche for crafters so that no one crafter is the same as the next one.
[/quote]
Yes every item has unique attributes and crafters can level up and define, which attributes are their strengths and which attributes are their weaknesses. ie a user definable self balancing skill distribution (speciality)
power / endurance / lifespan ...what will you sacrifice.
[quote quote=18332]<blockquote> <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/item-decay-2/page/5/#post-18253" rel="nofollow">Shirikuryu wrote:</a></div> Item decay is a necessity. Not only for the economy but also to prevent powerhouses in going on endless tyraids because their armor and weapon have infinite ammo or durability.
Siege and raids should cost people more than just a respawn. War is not free. If protecting your node cost resources, calling for war should also cost resources.
I would like to see ammo system a thing too. Not the infinite ammo we see nowadays in mmos for archer and gunner classes.
And repair with decay is fine. I would like to see master artisan creat gear with higher durability if they honed their skills and have the resources to do so. Thus we seek out artisans than can either craft 400 durabilty average armor or 200 durabilty elite armor. A niche for crafters so that no one crafter is the same as the next one.
</blockquote> Yes every item has unique attributes and crafters can level up and define, which attributes are their strengths and which attributes are their weaknesses. ie a user definable self balancing skill distribution (speciality)
power / endurance / lifespan …what will you sacrifice.
[/quote]
Yes both are great ideas. The idea around item decay is that I am more than just a repair bot. I can make 20 sets of gear with 20 different looks and maybe 3 or 4 different attributes. I would rather to that and sell my wares instead of being a repair bot even if it makes reworking an item. I would rather get materials and make the gear and let it sell.
[quote quote=18253]If protecting your node cost resources, calling for war should also cost resources.[/quote]
Yeah, they said that it will take just as much preparation to attack a node as it is to build one up.
[quote quote=18392]I can make 20 sets of gear with 20 different looks and maybe 3 or 4 different attributes.[/quote]
I like this idea. If the developers could combine this with a way to make our own items unique (not just our name on it) Maybe submit a symbol of some sort, kind of like a guild logo would be applied. Have it applied to a piece of equipment in game. Ex: Helmets would have our custom stamp in game, or chest plate can have a logo somewhere as well. This should be allowed for master crafters.
Question on repairing. If an item will decay and a way to prolong its lifespan would be to go repair it at a crafter then my question is how do we avoid the issue of "trade repair" I give you my piece of armor to fix, you fix it, but never return it. lol
Trust?
Or maybe we both have to go to a repair station and I place my armor in the station while you can only repair it. Cant remove it for yourself. Hmmm...
I personally don't mind the idea of item decay. The thought of only one person on a server being revered for being able to craft a really rare drop is pretty awesome.
I agree that decay shouldn't be 'okay three mobs down, gotta repair'.
In the topic of uniques or legendaries, I love the idea of forming a bond with Item you've repaired countless times, but I don't agree with any permanent destruction of an item. I feel something like a legendary would return to some primal essence form which would need to be painstakingly recrafted if you don't do regular upkeep on it. This would give value to an item, or it's lesser form it you ever change builds and no longer need it.
The thing I hate the most though are games that have permanent destruction mechanics such as the common 'Chance for the item to break on upgrade from +5 to +6 reinforcement' ... It makes me never want to care enough about farming an item if I have to go through getting it over and over again for a chance for it to end up as not garbage.
TL;DR I'm fine with items decaying and breaking, but not too the point they are completely destroyed. At least give us some core form or base to reupgrade / maybe give us raw materials or let a crafter break it down to offset material cost.
[quote quote=18544]<blockquote> <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/item-decay-2/page/5/#post-18253" rel="nofollow">Shirikuryu wrote:</a></div> If protecting your node cost resources, calling for war should also cost resources. </blockquote> Yeah, they said that it will take just as much preparation to attack a node as it is to build one up.
<blockquote> <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/item-decay-2/page/5/#post-18392" rel="nofollow">Helzbelz wrote:</a></div> I can make 20 sets of gear with 20 different looks and maybe 3 or 4 different attributes. </blockquote> I like this idea. If the developers could combine this with a way to make our own items unique (not just our name on it) Maybe submit a symbol of some sort, kind of like a guild logo would be applied. Have it applied to a piece of equipment in game. Ex: Helmets would have our custom stamp in game, or chest plate can have a logo somewhere as well. This should be allowed for master crafters.
Question on repairing. If an item will decay and a way to prolong its lifespan would be to go repair it at a crafter then my question is how do we avoid the issue of “trade repair” I give you my piece of armor to fix, you fix it, but never return it. lol
Trust?
Or maybe we both have to go to a repair station and I place my armor in the station while you can only repair it. Cant remove it for yourself. Hmmm…
[/quote]
You institute trade contracts. Contracts are mediated by the system Users must stipulate requirements and place funds escrow. Creator must build agree the contract, fulfil the requirements and receive escrow once the goods are agreed acceptable. If both parties dont agree, funds/goods dont not exchange.
Comments
Just so people know where iam coming from the MMO i came from is Eve Online while not perfect eve had a good economy as everything that was built was destroyable in Eve if you flew a ship into combat and died that ship was gone and at best you got back was a fraction of the cost of the ship via insurance frankly i would prefer gear loss in this sence where player X kills player Y then player X can loot Player Ys corpse with all of the gear that player Y was wearing having a chance to be destroyed with the end result being Player X receives a what ever survives of what they had equiped and player Y looses everything they had equiped either way, however i do not think that such a system would be nessesery for the game to succeed.
What the game does need however is Destruction to offset the Creation process, we cannot have one without the other a game with only destruction would be mindless and risk free while a game with only creation leads to too much abundance which devalues the items thus making another risk free environment, the OPs idea could work as a method of adding some destruction however iam not certain if 33% per death is enough of a sink to prevent a abundance forming.
Just so people know where iam coming from the MMO i came from is Eve Online while not perfect eve had a good economy as everything that was built was destroyable in Eve if you flew a ship into combat and died that ship was gone and at best you got back was a fraction of the cost of the ship via insurance frankly i would prefer gear loss in this sence where player X kills player Y then player X can loot Player Ys corpse with all of the gear that player Y was wearing having a chance to be destroyed with the end result being Player X receives a what ever survives of what they had equiped and player Y looses everything they had equiped either way, however i do not think that such a system would be nessesery for the game to succeed.
What the game does need however is Destruction to offset the Creation process, we cannot have one without the other a game with only destruction would be mindless and risk free while a game with only creation leads to too much abundance which devalues the items thus making another risk free environment, the OPs idea could work as a method of adding some destruction however iam not certain if 33% per death is enough of a sink to prevent a abundance forming.
[/quote]
I love SWG gear system because as a weaponsmith I always had people buying my rocket launchers as well as other weapons. People needed that gear all the time. Some gear was better than others but there was so much gear on the market you just needed to know who had what. You also made friends with crafters. I understand the feeling of people losing something that takes days or weeks to get, but I dont think gear should be that way. I am even of the mind that Ships should be destroyed if destroyed in battle. This would keep crafters very busy and crafters very happy because we will not be useless for most of the game.
Ideally the best way for ashes to go is as close to the UO system as possible. A stable economy and overall health of multiple playstyles requires all crafting types to be viable (from the looks of siege and node wars, certain crafting and engineering will always be in need) but they also run the risk of inflation and market cornering.
Ummm.... Is it me or is that how real life actually works. Everything breaks.. eventually. Item decay is a good thing in my opinion. As long as its not like 1 week or something. Its gotta decay according to how good it is. High tier stuff should take longer to decay. You can extend its life by taking it to a crafter and perform maintenance on it, like in real life. Which will make crafters more important. Win / Win.
Steve: Lets make decay 'great' again. :)
ps... fake quote from Steve.
See kickstarter.
So
1. No decay. Everyone builds everything they want until the materials run out. Nothing left to create new stuff with. Crafters/Gatherers/Traders Redundant
2. Allow deconstructing. Now you can recycle equipment. But you have to destroy to create. Gatherers still redundant.
3. Allow votive offerings. Now your (finite) materials can go back into the system and be harvested. Crafting and gathering fully functional.
Our modern economy depends on repairs or upgrades.
And when materials run out in the real world, when we have plundered all it resource, there will only be recycling.
You will HAVE TO destroy old stuff to create new stuff.
I am huge into crafting. I have always wanted a game that has amazing crafting and unique items. I want to be able to make a certain item a certain way and people will come to me for that specific style of item. NO GAME has this, not even star wars galaxies. I have yet to play a game with a crafting system worth using. Hopefully, this game can.
Siege and raids should cost people more than just a respawn. War is not free. If protecting your node cost resources, calling for war should also cost resources.
I would like to see ammo system a thing too. Not the infinite ammo we see nowadays in mmos for archer and gunner classes.
And repair with decay is fine. I would like to see master artisan creat gear with higher durability if they honed their skills and have the resources to do so. Thus we seek out artisans than can either craft 400 durabilty average armor or 200 durabilty elite armor. A niche for crafters so that no one crafter is the same as the next one.
Siege and raids should cost people more than just a respawn. War is not free. If protecting your node cost resources, calling for war should also cost resources.
I would like to see ammo system a thing too. Not the infinite ammo we see nowadays in mmos for archer and gunner classes.
And repair with decay is fine. I would like to see master artisan creat gear with higher durability if they honed their skills and have the resources to do so. Thus we seek out artisans than can either craft 400 durabilty average armor or 200 durabilty elite armor. A niche for crafters so that no one crafter is the same as the next one.
[/quote]
Yes every item has unique attributes and crafters can level up and define, which attributes are their strengths and which attributes are their weaknesses.
ie a user definable self balancing skill distribution (speciality)
power / endurance / lifespan ...what will you sacrifice.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/item-decay-2/page/5/#post-18253" rel="nofollow">Shirikuryu wrote:</a></div>
Item decay is a necessity. Not only for the economy but also to prevent powerhouses in going on endless tyraids because their armor and weapon have infinite ammo or durability.
Siege and raids should cost people more than just a respawn. War is not free. If protecting your node cost resources, calling for war should also cost resources.
I would like to see ammo system a thing too. Not the infinite ammo we see nowadays in mmos for archer and gunner classes.
And repair with decay is fine. I would like to see master artisan creat gear with higher durability if they honed their skills and have the resources to do so. Thus we seek out artisans than can either craft 400 durabilty average armor or 200 durabilty elite armor. A niche for crafters so that no one crafter is the same as the next one.
</blockquote>
Yes every item has unique attributes and crafters can level up and define, which attributes are their strengths and which attributes are their weaknesses.
ie a user definable self balancing skill distribution (speciality)
power / endurance / lifespan …what will you sacrifice.
[/quote]
Yes both are great ideas. The idea around item decay is that I am more than just a repair bot. I can make 20 sets of gear with 20 different looks and maybe 3 or 4 different attributes. I would rather to that and sell my wares instead of being a repair bot even if it makes reworking an item. I would rather get materials and make the gear and let it sell.
Yeah, they said that it will take just as much preparation to attack a node as it is to build one up.
[quote quote=18392]I can make 20 sets of gear with 20 different looks and maybe 3 or 4 different attributes.[/quote]
I like this idea. If the developers could combine this with a way to make our own items unique (not just our name on it) Maybe submit a symbol of some sort, kind of like a guild logo would be applied. Have it applied to a piece of equipment in game. Ex: Helmets would have our custom stamp in game, or chest plate can have a logo somewhere as well. This should be allowed for master crafters.
Question on repairing. If an item will decay and a way to prolong its lifespan would be to go repair it at a crafter then my question is how do we avoid the issue of "trade repair" I give you my piece of armor to fix, you fix it, but never return it. lol
Trust?
Or maybe we both have to go to a repair station and I place my armor in the station while you can only repair it. Cant remove it for yourself. Hmmm...
I agree that decay shouldn't be 'okay three mobs down, gotta repair'.
In the topic of uniques or legendaries, I love the idea of forming a bond with Item you've repaired countless times, but I don't agree with any permanent destruction of an item. I feel something like a legendary would return to some primal essence form which would need to be painstakingly recrafted if you don't do regular upkeep on it. This would give value to an item, or it's lesser form it you ever change builds and no longer need it.
The thing I hate the most though are games that have permanent destruction mechanics such as the common 'Chance for the item to break on upgrade from +5 to +6 reinforcement' ... It makes me never want to care enough about farming an item if I have to go through getting it over and over again for a chance for it to end up as not garbage.
TL;DR I'm fine with items decaying and breaking, but not too the point they are completely destroyed. At least give us some core form or base to reupgrade / maybe give us raw materials or let a crafter break it down to offset material cost.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/item-decay-2/page/5/#post-18253" rel="nofollow">Shirikuryu wrote:</a></div>
If protecting your node cost resources, calling for war should also cost resources.
</blockquote>
Yeah, they said that it will take just as much preparation to attack a node as it is to build one up.
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/item-decay-2/page/5/#post-18392" rel="nofollow">Helzbelz wrote:</a></div>
I can make 20 sets of gear with 20 different looks and maybe 3 or 4 different attributes.
</blockquote>
I like this idea. If the developers could combine this with a way to make our own items unique (not just our name on it) Maybe submit a symbol of some sort, kind of like a guild logo would be applied. Have it applied to a piece of equipment in game. Ex: Helmets would have our custom stamp in game, or chest plate can have a logo somewhere as well. This should be allowed for master crafters.
Question on repairing. If an item will decay and a way to prolong its lifespan would be to go repair it at a crafter then my question is how do we avoid the issue of “trade repair” I give you my piece of armor to fix, you fix it, but never return it. lol
Trust?
Or maybe we both have to go to a repair station and I place my armor in the station while you can only repair it. Cant remove it for yourself. Hmmm…
[/quote]
You institute trade contracts.
Contracts are mediated by the system
Users must stipulate requirements and place funds escrow.
Creator must build agree the contract, fulfil the requirements and receive escrow once the goods are agreed acceptable.
If both parties dont agree, funds/goods dont not exchange.