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The Arena Thread
Pyrolol
Member
With Alpha 2 on the way, I have decided to dig deeper into the competitive Arena system offered: 1v1, 3v3, 5v5
This is what has been confirmed, so let's dive into it. Just remember that these are my personal opinions based on what's been said, years of comeptitive gaming and what I am hoping this game mode will turn out to be.
At the moment, I suspect that these will be objective based arenas:
For 1v1 & 20m, FFA can remain as objective based as we have dueling (20man FFA being a battleground style game mode)
For 3v3 & 5v5, I think it should be the classic team deathmatch style (last team standing) with no respawns.
Most of scenario based modes in this game is objectives based, whether it be destroying sieges, caravans etc. so having a smaller scale PvP based arena focused on purely the classes and team vs team will give it some more diversity instead.
The Arena should focus on player vs player, working as a team using skill, game knowledge, cooldown management and coordination to defeat the enemy team with zero respawns. There shouldn't be arena gear - it should be what your character has earnt from raids, dungeons, crafting etc and that is what you use to compete with, therefore skill can only be used so much before it is time to go back out into Vera and get some upgrades (preventing people from just sitting there queuing Arena and letting them still have to take part in the game)
- Confirmed is a ladder system, ranked rewards per season with titles, cosmetics only is perfect
- Having too many Arena brackets will diminish players participating and the ranking system
- Arena should be cross realm to create more diverse battles and different team compositions
- You & your team should have to travel to an NPC to que the Arena (preventing node sitters)
Balancing of the Arena:
We already know that it is a rock, paper, scissor type game style and in dev videos, regarding the arena, they did say skill can help counter it. When balancing the arena, I believe there should be:
- A way to not affect the rest of the gameplay, it can be changes specific to that instance (i.e spell/ability is reduced by -25% while in the Arena but has full effect in open world) this prevents class changes from clashing with PvE and open world PvP
- There should be no potions or outside buffs for the Arena, only what your team can provide, if there is potions make it a big cooldown to use therefore its a more calculated decision
- 6 month seasons with seasonal rewards confirmed, and players can come show off their skills and maybe once a year tournaments can be held so that players can get into it and cheer on later when the game develops a bit more
- Gear cap should be a thing to a certain extent to prevent the hardcore PvE'rs from dominating in the arena (purely from their gear) and still putting it down to mostly skill and team coordination to outplay your enemy team and also (BIG COOLDOWNS can be not useable in Arena to make it a more exciting and competitive game mode)
I have stated some compromises to not break the integrity of this game and enjoy all the aspects it has to offer while still making Ashes of the Creation the game you want it to be. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
This is what has been confirmed, so let's dive into it. Just remember that these are my personal opinions based on what's been said, years of comeptitive gaming and what I am hoping this game mode will turn out to be.
At the moment, I suspect that these will be objective based arenas:
For 1v1 & 20m, FFA can remain as objective based as we have dueling (20man FFA being a battleground style game mode)
For 3v3 & 5v5, I think it should be the classic team deathmatch style (last team standing) with no respawns.
Most of scenario based modes in this game is objectives based, whether it be destroying sieges, caravans etc. so having a smaller scale PvP based arena focused on purely the classes and team vs team will give it some more diversity instead.
The Arena should focus on player vs player, working as a team using skill, game knowledge, cooldown management and coordination to defeat the enemy team with zero respawns. There shouldn't be arena gear - it should be what your character has earnt from raids, dungeons, crafting etc and that is what you use to compete with, therefore skill can only be used so much before it is time to go back out into Vera and get some upgrades (preventing people from just sitting there queuing Arena and letting them still have to take part in the game)
- Confirmed is a ladder system, ranked rewards per season with titles, cosmetics only is perfect
- Having too many Arena brackets will diminish players participating and the ranking system
- Arena should be cross realm to create more diverse battles and different team compositions
- You & your team should have to travel to an NPC to que the Arena (preventing node sitters)
Balancing of the Arena:
We already know that it is a rock, paper, scissor type game style and in dev videos, regarding the arena, they did say skill can help counter it. When balancing the arena, I believe there should be:
- A way to not affect the rest of the gameplay, it can be changes specific to that instance (i.e spell/ability is reduced by -25% while in the Arena but has full effect in open world) this prevents class changes from clashing with PvE and open world PvP
- There should be no potions or outside buffs for the Arena, only what your team can provide, if there is potions make it a big cooldown to use therefore its a more calculated decision
- 6 month seasons with seasonal rewards confirmed, and players can come show off their skills and maybe once a year tournaments can be held so that players can get into it and cheer on later when the game develops a bit more
- Gear cap should be a thing to a certain extent to prevent the hardcore PvE'rs from dominating in the arena (purely from their gear) and still putting it down to mostly skill and team coordination to outplay your enemy team and also (BIG COOLDOWNS can be not useable in Arena to make it a more exciting and competitive game mode)
I have stated some compromises to not break the integrity of this game and enjoy all the aspects it has to offer while still making Ashes of the Creation the game you want it to be. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
7
Comments
the more arena modes you add to the game the fewer players will queue up for those, having the least amount of arena modes is the best to always have people queue'ing up for those
The bigger the team the bigger the chances a player will disconnect, or be outright afk the entire match or simply have a tantrum and rage quit
Another thing is,
the way previous games have stopped people camping for example (I.E Stealthers hiding all game) is:
> An Eye spawns after a certain time frame (similiar to WoW) which briefly shows stealthers
> A time-limit (doesn’t have to be quick) a set standard for each bracket they’ve confirmed (1v1 / 3v3 / 5v5) When timer ends and there’s still a member of each team alive everyone loses.
I think if they take the great aspects from others games that have made Arena so competitive and successful, then we could be looking at a Arena for PvP dominating for years to come same way BC / Wrath WoW did. These are just a few pointers I’ve been thinking about anyway
There isn’t a 20v20 mode, I’ve only brought into discussion what’s been confirmed.
So just add a “skirmish” mode for people to practice before entering ranked matches
I personally think every mode should be a ranked mode.
I think no extra arena gear or buffs/debuffs, etc., are better than having the arena feel different from the rest of the game. ESO's half damage in Cyrodiil is an example of how not to do it.
Arena modes that are not pure duels can be fun, but then they should be focused on PvP. Again, ESO is a negative example - don't create modes where the key to winning is being the best at running away, like in ESO's Chaosball mode. I think capture the flag modes with only 1 or 2 flags are best. Don't make capture the flag ranked.
Arenas should be bound to the area surrounding the node in which the arena was built, combining areas as the nodes improve. This way, you will fight people from your node first, and as the node progresses, you would fight people from further away. It would add a cool theme of local arena champions that fight each other later in the game. Some could have a real fan base, and at that point, it could be fun.
No randos in the arena. If you want to play with randos - go find some, make a party with them and then register, but be prepared to get completely fucked by a coordinated group.
8v8 free-for-all (last man standing) un/ranked and 8v8 squads un/ranked. I think similar to league of legends you go from iron to challenger, in Ashes from peasant to Grand-Master, similar to professions
Well 1v1, 3v3, 5v5 is what’s confirmed at the moment
For anyone who has played other types of ranked game modes
It is very daunting trying to organise 5 people let alone 8 to all jump on at the same time and coordinating that size can be kind of chaotic
I for one am excited for 5v5 as that was one of my favourite game modes on WoW and even playing League, however 3v3 will be the most competitive imo
EDIT: I’m excited to see what ranks they make, Ive heard that you might even get a unique title for the class you are playing if you hit a top % (however that hasn’t been fully confirmed yet)
Players should have to organize a team of required size prior to queuing. No random arena queue!
Deathmatch for sure. I'd suggest other pvp formats with different systems.
Another part of getting into the arena is having a limited number a queue spots to hop into battle. It was always nice seeing people waiting for the queue next to you in the world, then suddenly both teams join and you end up facing each other. Good banter to be had post arena.
Brackets of 1v1, 3v3, & 5v5 - I would actually prefer 5v5 transfer into 8v8 as that is the max party size. In games where arena is 5v5 or more, it is normally a shitshow. Sure there can be strategy/comps and such to min/max, but those brackets always tended to be for fun and with friends. Increasing the reward for participating in a higher player cap arena bracket would incentivize participation as I agree with OP that more players is harder to organize.
Do they intend to segregate abilities/stats and everything else to function and value differently between the rest of the game and the arena? If not, I'd venture to guess it's doomed from the start and I don't mind eating crow if I'm wrong but mark my words here and now.
Alot of people enjoy competitive play, just because it might not be your cup of tea doesn’t mean others wouldn’t enjoy doing something smaller scale, more fast paced, and giving the PvPers other type of end game content other than massive scale options only
Playing as a team has made me alot of friends along the way in various MMO’s wheather it be WoW, Eso, New World etc hell even COD brought out a ranked system and players have loved it
I just don’t see why something btw that has been confirmed can’t be a great addition to the game
From what I’ve seen in nearly every single MMORPG ever released, NOT having some sort of End-Game PvP competitive play has ended up making that specific game its downfall (I.e one example was New World, people reaching max level, and having no end game PvP besides Outpost Rush which became dead very quickly: This is just one example of many)
In terms of balancing Arena affecting everything else, Like the way WoW has done it, there’s specific changes/tweaks on spells/abilities that are ONLY affected inside the Arena, once out of the Arena that said spell/ability returns to its normal state (whether it’s less damage, or bigger CD, etc, etc)
I’ve been active in MMOs since Vanilla World of Warcraft, Tera Online, ESO, New World, Diablo 4 plus countless others, and all I can say is, if they do this Arena system right, it might actually bring in a huge player base and a sense of Team-Play that people can make friends or play with their friends in.
Would absolutely love duo ques
Much better then the whole 1v1 thing when we already have dueling
Would much rather work as a team and coordinate with someone to win then just go in solo and kite the whole game
I would love just a ranked 3v3 team deathmatch style arena, no objectives other then kill the other team
Literally all I want 😂
@Voeltz What you have described is more battlegrounds than actual Arena
I can agree to that, definitely. Maybe it's a bit too hardcore of a take from me. It would add real importance every time you queue up though. But you're right, it would discourage people, which is not the goal.
That may have been hinted at in a past discussion with Steven but nothing for sure. I try not to rely on old information that was vaguely mentioned and never again talked about in any meaningful way. I'm talking about round based Last Team Standing. TDM in most games has respawns or a ticket system, that's not what I want to see out of a competitive mode, that would be a complete joke.
What I'm describing is true Arenas that exist in the node or open world that you can walk into, instanced or not. You're idea of an Arena seems to be a loading screen that takes you to an instance of some faraway place far removed from the open in game world. To me that is not an Arena at all. If that's what Ashes is deciding to call them, it's wrong because it's not an accurate description for one and 2 it will be confusing to have those AND Arenas in the open world like you referenced. Every game calls it something different though, In Warhammer they were called Scenarios, In WoW I believe they were called Battlegrounds. Arenas SHOULD be like what is shown in your GIF. A Gladiator Arena full of sand, a Coliseum, a sports Arena with spectators/other players. That's the definition.
What you wrote sounds like the military node
I was talking more so for end game content and team based Arena to give a competitive game mode, which minimises the que spams (because you’re waiting for your team to log on) so you will be out in the world a lot still experiencing what Ashes has to offer or even in between que times
The aspect your talking about I believe has been also confirmed, 20man free for all battlegrounds, they could add a 8v8 type battlegrounds later on i guess, but these were more un ranked modes.
Instanced Arena is confirmed on there wiki page, makes it a bit fairer and no outside interruptions on the players competing in the Arena
I think this says more about your choice of team mate than the arena.
Just kidding, relax.
The stranger's eyes lifted to the blood red cloud on the horizon.
'We have to move. It's not safe here.'
It's worked in other MMO's that have 3v3 Arena
Are you using wow as an example of that? Wows 5s were notoriously terrible for balance due to the games cc damage and defensives all being tied around 3vs3. Wow as a game just didn't scale well in terms of combatant numbers. Things like target caps, cc drs, heal overlaps aren't doable in a small arena AND an ever scaling open world.
You could make classes work differently in each setting but that's a rather obtuse way to solve an unnecessary problem.