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[Feedback Request] Alpha Two Commissions Preview Shown in February Livestream
Hello glorious community,
We’d like your feedback on the Commissions Preview shown during the February 2024 Development Update Livestream.
To help guide this conversation, here are a few thought starters you can choose from:
We’ll be compiling a report for the design team on Friday, March 15, 2024, so please try to get your feedback into this thread by then!
Everyone here at Intrepid Studios looks forward to reading all the feedback you have to share!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydYFqNMQGkM
We’d like your feedback on the Commissions Preview shown during the February 2024 Development Update Livestream.
To help guide this conversation, here are a few thought starters you can choose from:
- How do you feel about the Commissions Preview?
- What excites you about playing and interacting with the Commissions system?
- Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Commissions Preview?
- Are there similar systems you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
- How do you feel about the way Commissions, side quests, and story arcs worked together during the Commissions Preview?
We’ll be compiling a report for the design team on Friday, March 15, 2024, so please try to get your feedback into this thread by then!
Everyone here at Intrepid Studios looks forward to reading all the feedback you have to share!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydYFqNMQGkM
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Comments
The chaining of events from one small task into a bigger event into a yet another small quest is super nice, especially for a "oh, a shiny" kind of person like me.
And as for the pve part - it was great. High dmg, relatively short leash on mobs, running out of mana (on a mage nonetheless) and even wiping on just a few mobs. Obviously people will outskill mobs too, but if this was a mostly solo location - this was great imo.
Pots might be a bit strong, but that's all easily rebalanceable, so not really an issue right now.
I don't really remember if I've ever seen fog in rain, but it feels like it should go away during it? Also would be nice to see water rise more in places where it would pool together, but maybe that's just not added to this particular region yet.
In other words, this definitely looks very nice already.
edit: holy hell the amount of stuff Steven dropped on death was crazy. Is that the current setting on death penalties?! Cause ooooh boi.
On the sharing question, I think it's fine for commissions, but I'd prefer if soloable bigger quest were more personal and special.
As for rewards for commissions, I think a lower reward for those who you share it to would be preferable. Though if several players can get the same commission (type) from the board - I think it'd be fine if people got the full commission reward (as long as they're within a certain distance from the quest location).
I did not like the presentation of the commission board. I know the UI is a work in progress, however, the UI direction is very mobile game looking (and very similar to New World's Town Projects). I think a different style and presentation should be considered. Perhaps something that incorporates the node's racial aesthetic and the bulletin board's appearance with the paper hand bills?
Also, while it looked like the node leveling up message was placeholder, I would recommend a long delay time so nearby players can rush home and watch their node level up. Maybe even an extended delay for higher stage node leveling events? It's a big moment for anyone who lives there, and they won't want to miss it if possible.
Otherwise, I loved the monster ability VFX, and the event and story arc spawning nearby with the weather changes. The resurrection VFX was very nice as well, that was brilliant.
Being inside should sound as cozy as possible, especially whenever you are using the room to shelter yourself from extreme weather scenarios. To have the SFX be as diverse as the architecture and interiors whenever we seek refuge from the rain would make the world of Verra feel even more dynamic, reactive and immersive.
Amazing progress yet again
We can also see the XP debt from his death, and him repaying the debt as he play.
I'll give better feedback later.
-Are the commissions repeatable? How about the sidequests that appeared during the preview of the stream, are those repeatable?
Some other MMORPGs participate in using this tool, but turning these mundane tasks into something more obscure and flavorful can certainly improve infinite-loop content. Rather than the quest reading "Kill 10 Stormborn Minotaur" , it can be a % task bar that simply says "Cut down the enemy on the storm mount."
Obviously there's a balance that needs to be struck there to ensure that the communication is clear enough that players don't get confused, but can CERTAINLY improve immersion on the day to day.
I think the commissions being the same for everyone will encourage more group play, however, low respawn rates and poor drop rates can make that a frustrating experience, as people that get the drop rates at a faster rate than you might leave to pick up a new group of commissions, and since commissions only last so long, you wont have any reinforcements.
3. Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Commissions Preview?
Im concerned that there might not be a commission for every level range, considering everyone gets the same commissions, and there might be both level 5's and level 50's in the area. I think there should be at minimum one commission per every 5 levels (so 10 total).
4. Are there similar systems you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
Ive been playing Dragons Dogma recently, which has a similar task board system. The rewards in that game are varied, which I think is preferable to always getting glint. For example, one of the task board quests gives you an idol, that you can give to a shop keeper for a discount. It would be cool if some rare commission occurs that can give cooler things, like maybe a very strong consumable, or a 'legendary' commission that can give a skin.
5. How do you feel about the way Commissions, side quests, and story arcs worked together during the Commissions Preview?
I think the system is a good way to handle day-to-day, moment-to-moment gameplay. I'm hoping that player activity can sway story arc outcomes through the players choices, and not just through whether a certain % of players fail the chain (to elaborate, I would be disappointment if the only thing that sways story arc outcomes is the % of player attempts that succeed/fail).
I like having different rarities of commissions, based on node progression over-all, and on personal reputation level with the node. I think this will be important for divine nodes in particular, where the mayor is determined by the player who contributed the most.
About sharing commissions, to avoid abuse, don't let players be able to accept shared commissions if their personal reputation is too low to get it from the BB. But other than that, let players share freely and don't diminish rewards for shared commissions.
I really like how the commissions are meant to direct the players to areas around the node where side missions and story events take place. That is both what I thought they would be, and what I wanted them to be.
However, I would really, really, really, really like if completing commissions also does more for the node than straight up node XP. It can be subtle things like affecting prices and availability on vendors for certain goods. Minotaur pigments for example. But more overt and obvious visual changes to the node would be very welcome as well, even if it's just decorations. Some sort of public visible tracker even.
Arguably, availability of minotaur pigments for sale in the node can also be determined by completing the related minotaur side missions and the minotaur story events, but I think commissions should play a role too.
If enough people in the node complete the relevant minotaur commissions and quests/story arcs, perhaps the node can sell minotaur pigments in the node-to-node trading system, meaning mayoral caravans full of minotaur pigments can be launched and fought over.
As a side-question... are minotaur pigments made from or by minotaurs? Or both from and by?
And the outfit was actually really not the best! Could you show better ones ?
The commission system on itself seem fine, maybe the only thing that puts me out is this "auto socialism", as in sharing raid and commission reward with people around you, not the most enjoyable feeling to work hard on soloing a commission but some people followed you and now you must share
When you share a quest, you share just the quest. The player who receives the quest still has to do it (kill X amount of mobs for example), either solo or with the group they are in. The individual progress and the rewards aren't shared with others, traditionally.
If the quest is kill 10 minotaurs, and one player who has killed 9 shares it with a new group member, the new group member still has to kill all 10, even though the guy sharing the quest is done after one more kill.
All quest sharing really is, is removing the necessity for some of the players to go to the node and clicking "accept commission" on the bulletin board. But those players also miss out on getting any new commission that may have appeared in the meantime.
First I would like to say that these small actions that we have in the world and that affect the history of the world are incredible, and I would really like to praise your work on this. I will review the videos more often, and possibly edit this comment, or if someone is reading it and has the answer, and wants to respond to me, I would be grateful.
I would like to know about the cooldown of story arcs, and how this will be balanced, I believe there will be a good number of players performing different tasks throughout the game, how many story arcs or weather events will we have at a time? Can we have more than one climate event in the same way? Do climate events also affect surrounding resources (I ask this because I had previously seen the flowers on the Artisanship Preview live, and I was thinking that this one in particular was from the night or something like that, but I also know that they could be different flowers and they just have the same design at the moment)?
I like the commission board, though I do not care for the UI in which it is presented. Perhaps just zoom in on the board and show the paper-styled posts. Popping up a grid of collect quest cards takes the immersion out of it. I like the idea someone else had about putting this in the tavern/inn if available. Furthermore, upgrading an Inn building might unlock special commissions. And having rewards more interesting than gold may make the choice of commission more exciting.
I love the flow of commissions leading out into the world where you discover world events and side quests, which can therein progress the nodes story. I do hope that some side quests start in the town as well as that helps to make towns/cities feel more alive. I do sorely miss that there is no voice acting - Steven speaking with a Minotaur voice was awesome! I think it was stated that side quests will not be fully voice acted (which saddens me but I get it), it would be nice to at least hear the NPC's voice when you clicked on them to set the "tone" you read the text with in your mind.
I like that world events are contributed/progressed by all people nearby. I hope there is a system that prevents people that are not participating from getting credit. I also think you mentioned a Minotaur shaman of sorts summoning the storm - he should perhaps be a named mob with a few voice lines.
I know UI is work-in-progress, but wanted to note that the world map UI is quite boring looking. It's functional but not great. I think games like Skyrim and Black Desert have the best maps that are dynamic, 3 dimensional, have a sense of height and all around just cool. The portraits in the dialog screen also do not match the NPC model, especially on the Luna NPC.
The rain was nice looking, however it was quite jarring how it changed direction when you moved your camera around. I think that could be smoothed out.
The lightning striking the ground and being able to damage both enemies and yourself is super cool!
The berserker spin to win was really cool looking! The summoned mobs should dissipate not disappear as it's quite jarring for them to just go invisible.
Also, seeing the node progress from the activities of the players seemed rewarding, being part of a collective whole as the world evolves and takes shape around you.
Kudos to the entire Intrepid crew!
LFG: Open World, tight knit coordination, multiple roles, will travel.
I love the progression through questlines that lead into each other. However, those sorts of systems only work when they're truly natural and genuinely do catch you off guard. They must be random, they can't be the same for every player, the dialogues actually need to feel like it wasn't already obvious where the previous quest was going to lead you from the start. (And it can't just be unpredictable by being incoherently random either; the story still has to connect and feel interesting enough to make you like the fact that it continues on, and make you curious about where it will lead, rather than just be tedious additional work.)
If 50% of all commissions that lead to another quest and/or side quest stand out with the same quest length, amount of people you talk to, and generally the conditions required to fulfil to get from one step to the next, they'll feel stale very, very quickly. I'd say part of the secret might have to be allowing the player a choice half-way through the connected quests that leads to different outcomes, such as difference in node progression results - or perhaps a choice between node progression, guild rewards, or better personal rewards. Ideally the result would only be subtly hinted at in the dialogue, so you'd have to talk to players (or advisory NPCs) about the types of cues to look out for in order to make the decisions you prefer. And if you don't care about optimising the reward, you can just RP your choice, and see what you get, without having to sit there crunching the numbers every time the game offers you a list of items to choose at level 15.
If it can't feel natural, I'd rather skip it entirely and just have it be completely predictable and stationary. So if the quest design becomes too much work, I'd caution the designers to do fewer random, procedurally placed activities, and replace them with easy-to-design persistent quests, in order to prioritise and ensure that all the procedurally generated stuff that *does* get designed genuinely feels interesting to explore.
Which doesn't have to mean that the non-static, non-streamlined content can never amount to "just kill creatures and bring me their stuff," but what's important to me is that the step from one quest to the next doesn't feel disorienting, restless, and unprofound.
The questing system in GW2 is a great terrible example for such a superficial, disorienting, restless experience.
A big part of it is due to something that AoC will likely not have problems with by virtue of its fundamental design features: In GW2, you never stay in any area for more than 20-30 minutes, then it's essentially dead, except for the dynamic events you might come back to on a whim. Compared to other games where I stayed farming in the same 3 zones for *days or weeks* worth of gameplay, that felt extremely tiresome after a few days of playing GW2. Terrible, wasteful concept.
But aside from that, it's also a more universal issue with modern MMO design (My examples for these include Rift, ESO, GW2) that causes this sensation in GW2: "Dynamic" regional events are WAY too overused. Wherever you are, there's essentially always a dynamic regional event right next to you. This makes them feel utterly superficial, and the gameplay loop is far too inorganic. The player's choice about whether they happen to be in the mood to participate in a group event at any given point shouldn't be the only deciding factor in when they participate in dynamic regional events; that defeats their whole concept of them being "events."
Dynamic regional events should be something that's either so rare and big that it's difficult to resist going there for the rewards (but also you'll only really do it once or twice a day, because there just aren't that many happening in your vicinity) or they should be rare and hard to find, and short in duration once triggered, so you'll only typically participate in them if you actively scout the map for them, except for random occasions where you run into them by chance.
The key word for either type obviously being "rare."
^ I specify "regional" events as opposed to "individual player/party-centric" activities, because I think player- or party-centric activities don't require this level of rarity. Because player/party-centric activities are easy to say no to, so they allow a more effortless decision to participate or ignore them depending on what you planned to do in that hour/evening. Which is fine for events when they're rare, because then that decision is interesting. If you run into three events every hour, this decision just devolves into FOMO food.
Edit: I can't believe I have to highlight this, but some of the input from other users around the web makes me think this has to be stated here: Don't make me do dailies. Dailies existing for those players who need that gameplay loop to feel achieved are fine, but if I every player has to repeat the same predictable tasks every day they log in, in order to maintain reasonable access to equipment and wealth, I might just not play this game.
Completely ruins class fantasy for me. I care about guilds, PVP skill, territory control, and building player-driven projects:
I don't mind mindlessly & efficiently grinding mobs for an hour every once in a while, or even farming quests for the sake of gathering resources for my guild/node, but if every player has to run dungeons, and/or craft x amounts of object, and/or hand in x amounts of quests/commissions in order to gain any noticeable benefit from logging in every day, then I'm not playing an MMORPG, but a mobile idle game. Dailies are even worse than hand-holding; at least in hand-holding you're being taught the gameplay that's organically effective in the game. Dailies artificially create effective gameplay themepark rides, and then force you to do them, so no one who follows the script has to feel left behind. If there *must* be dailies, at least package them into monthlies instead, so I get to schedule how I use my time.
As a player of Elite Dangerous, TL Tester, etc, I feel neutral. I can somewhat imagine how impressive this is to those who have not seen it before, hopefully that's a feedback form. Nothing disappointed me outright, but this was my expectation going in, since I considered that if someone tried to stream/explain how it feels to do this in Elite, in a 30m stream segment, it'd come off about the same.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Commissions system?
Didn't really notice anything outside of my usual, I can imagine it being good, but that's all I'm doing. The Commissions part of the stream was maybe diminished by the rest of it, but it's an overall daisy-chain as noted, so it's fine. Basically, it's about the same as I'm used to, even from FFXI Campaign Ops.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Commissions Preview?
Nothing particularly exciting, compared to what I play now, nothing too concerning that hasn't been mentioned before. Econ whining, lighting model whining, mob difficulty/design whining, etc. I'm probably just cynical because for me specifically this is generic despite being presented as unique, but yeah, all just standard fare. That said, the engineering and visuals teams should absolutely be super proud of everything they've done. Design team, it's on you now! Don't let me end up in that BDO feeling again!
Are there similar systems you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
Surely already known for me/my group, but:
https://elite-dangerous.fandom.com/wiki/Mission_Board
https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Campaign_Operations
No specific Throne and Liberty link, but they do their own equivalent thing
BDO actually has a similar thing, actually, but it's hidden and not often discussed. It's fairly simplistic, as is everything in that game, and Contribution Points are global, so it barely matters, you just grind them. I guess I'm concerned that it will, again, 'just end up as BDO', but that's still just cynical whining.
How do you feel about the way Commissions, side quests, and story arcs worked together during the Commissions Preview?
I fear that it will fall apart entirely as the node grows without a large increase in the board size, particularly since it seems like the board must be affected by having more reputation? I presume this can be solved simply by having 'High Reputation Boards', 'A Rank Adventurer Board' vs 'E Rank Adventurer Board', etc.
Overall, I feel 'normal'.But even considering the sidequests and story arcs, I can give comparisons based on the games noted:
Compared to Elite Dangerous: Can't possibly match without a lot more effort, the Galaxy is too much larger, and the thing you have to do is, by design, harder. Probably shouldn't try, I'd say focus on getting the player who just wants a dynamic world to feel the standard tier of changes, etc.
Compared to FFXI: Looks like it could eventually reach the same level of immersion and interconnection, but just as the stream couldn't show the depth of its own systems in its limited time, neither will it be any benefit to go into it. I can say that I often appreciate just the changes themselves, since 'being unable to clear a quest or use a particular Auction House location in Aht Urhgan because an NPC was captured by the Beastman Forces during the last siege' prompts me to do specific things even without any dialogue or specific sidequest, and this, in turn, leads off down the same type of 'chain'.
Compared to Throne and Liberty: This is going to come down entirely to Economy design. Whichever game has the higher Economic pain point in its structure will 'feel worse', for me, as that type of player. It has a ways to go, but has many of the same systems already somewhat implemented, I'd say TL feels slightly more organic, but that's obvious, since I've played one of these games and only seen a 30m snapshot of the concept in the other.
Compared to BDO: Since this game is full of economic pain points and seems to be of similar difficulty to Ashes, I'm biased against it, but basically, when their events were occasionally good, it would be about the same. I'd say this comes down to writing quality and style, for me. A good way to summarize it is that BDO once had a collaboration event with a specific piece of media, and the writers basically 'used the BDO sandbox world as the backdrop for their character's story', and it was probably among the best things they've ever done. If Ashes can feel even close to the Netflix Cursed x BDO collab even just once a month consistently (quality wise), particularly if it really is random (trigger timing related to overall effort put in), it'll be great.
I'll give a slightly more detailed answer that actually incorporates all my 'Econ whining' in a separate post so that it's easier to compile the report. Expect that to mostly be about echoing what some other posters have said. The key to making this system feel good is to really tune exactly how much people care about it and how often it has to trigger for them to feel immersed. For every game mentioned, there has to be a serious period where 'nothing special happens', for the stuff that does happen, to 'feel special'. I'll give lots of feedback about 'clamps' on the 'BGS' in Alpha-2.
Good direction.
-What excites you about playing and interacting with the Commissions system?
I imagining a big node like a level 5/6 node have a very large influence zone and the city itself may have multiple entrances and exits like N/E/W/S gates for example, maybe I will see different quests post on different quest boards locate at different side of the city near gates like if I’m reading a quest board locate in north area or near north gate then I will see quests leads me only(or more) towards north.
And I think if devs can play a role like a dungeon master in some big nodes and post/held some special quests/events etc and play with us will be very cool.
-Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Commissions Preview?
Crowd density maybe. Too many people will make contents too easy and too few people may make contents too hard, and it may also effects on pushing progression too fast or too slow.
Hope to see more what weather system can do. Maybe like a raining day make mud wet and even form puddles and it might slow down movement speed.
↓Good youtube channel to learn things about creating games.↓
Masahiro Sakurai on Creating Games:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCv1DvRY5PyHHt3KN9ghunuw
Yes, let there be a complete waste of resources.
It was alright it wasn't particularly special to me, it's nice to see something for all ranges of time available to play the game. I didn't have an expectation of commissions being anything other than advanced dailies.
I don't particularly care for townboard/advanced dailies. And while its neat to see quests be a "mini epic", they'll still only ever be a quest. There is no emotional evocation within me at all about them.
So when a solo player and casual has invested this time into these missions and state building, what do you think they're going to do when they lose their node? What do you think will happen if your answer is to restrict node wars to a specialty event that doesn't occur enough to as apart regular PvP activities? I would like to see where it all ties in and your answer to this. I have a good idea of what the casual player who does these quests and then in turn loses that node. So I hope there is much more planned to this system and this was only truly a peek in the window at the system, otherwise if casuals lose their city they'll quit and if the world isn't changing enough the PvPers will be dissatisfied.
A daily is a daily no matter how you try to spin it and a quest is a quest no matter how many times you try to upgrade the wheel. If you do them once in one game you've done them in all games. Townboards are townboards no matter what game they're in. I'm indifferent towards it because they're not interesting.
What makes anything interesting in terms of a quest is the combat, class, and AI interesting along the way and we're a fart way off from seeing those three things receive a lot of polish.
Tab - it's at the limits of what devs can do with it because it's seen every iteration under the sun. 20 more years of WoW, ArcheAge, and GW2 does not have any appeal or I'd be playing those games. I'd like to see an Ashes of Creation hybrid combat system and not another combat clone, there's nothing about the system that particularly has "Intrepid Studios" stamped on it so far.
Classes - I'm more confident that you guys are going to make Summoner interesting and ignore feedback that makes Summoner like every summoner spec seen before it. (Which is the path you should take for every aspect of the game, while like the rest of the archetypes are wholesale generic, is looking to have an Intrepid Studios stamp on it, which is what I'm particularly excited for.)
If they're the path I have to take to get to fun interactive PvE and PvP then so be it, but so far I'm indifferent.
Overall I love questing, dailies any type or guided gameplay, I am always a fan of. I like that its called Commissions to set it apart a little bit from other typical questing even if its at its core the same thing.
I enjoyed seeing how the Commissions took you out to an area and then there were other things to engage with quest wise and discovery wise.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Commissions system?
I am excited for the exploration it promotes. I hope along the way there will be achievements, things to collect like view points or discovery locations. I like to wander and I hope that the commissions will encourage that type of wandering and discovering of the game.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Commissions Preview?
I will focus on concerns for this one since I wrote about excitements in the previous question. I am concerned about the nature of the board. I can imagine in a popular node there being TONS of players huddled around this board on a regular and with only 8 selectable commissions I am worried about population around these questing areas. I understand as nodes progress their will be more boards and hopefully each board has different commissions to choose. How many of these commissions can one take?
Also I am concerned about getting quests mostly from a board. In a node that is living and breathing with townsfolk and people trying to repopulate a world I want to fall in love with those townsfolk. If I am not engaging with them then who are they but just that guy who walks down the street with a log? I want to have a connection to the towns people and the town itself and I feel the board does take away from that. I dont mind a board in addition to folks in town giving quests,
Are there similar systems you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
It feels similar to New World in a way. In New World a mayor will be able to dictate what procs on the board for activities and they also refresh on a regular basis. You feel obligated to preform these tasks for the good for the town but in reality your doing the same thing as every one else in the town. It feels like we are all sheep doing the same thing for the same goals. I would like to see diversity of choice.
How do you feel about the way Commissions, side quests, and story arcs worked together during the Commissions Preview?
Once you head out on a commission I would love it if the side quests in the area gave more "Choose your own adventure" vibes. Maybe you could choose to give that polis to that brother minotaur or you could have chosen to bring it to another minotaur who then would know that the exiled minotaur is trading with him and rat him out or something. I am not sure but I would like to see players get to do things other then just the same thing. Maybe instead of us all killing minotaurs some people had a commission in the same area to get totems from their camps or to chop down minotaur touched trees that only grow in that area. But over all they still give exp. to the same story arc that will trigger the storm. So the players are all doing things in the same area to contribute to a collective goal but its not pigeon holed into the same activity. So if me and a friend start in town and the board has me going to kill minotaurs maybe my friend gets collect totems so we can work together to get both of our activities completed in a more timely fashion. It feels a little linear currently by all having the same activity to complete.
It looks about normal to me. This is what I'm used to from other games I play.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Commissions system?
The problem that I tend to see in games with this system other than FFXI, ED, TL, is solved easily enough by connecting commissions down through vassal chains and trade relationships, something Ashes is poised to do.
In all of these games I have my usual play areas and cycles, but the organizations and game structures will sometimes send me outside of my home turf, to make deliveries, or handle some matter in the neighboring regions, or areas I don't tend to go to very often. This then has the effect of making me notice the changes in situation there, and having a concrete connection (even if just RP) between the status in that area and the reason I was sent over there in the first place, or something else that matters to me in my normal flows, even if only for context.
In Elite Dangerous, I'm sometimes asked to do a delivery or an "investigation" in a further away system that I don't spend time in. In the process of this, I might find out that that system has a famine, or security issue, which may be either related to, or incidental to, the reason I was sent out in the first place. It can also be very easy to find RP reasons that my faction's leaders sent me over there. Whether because I'm a specialist in X or Y activity, or it's something that one can easily perceive as linked to my factions own politics, internal state, broader goals, or similar things. I find myself having a compelling personal reason to spend time, even if only briefly, in a different environment, as well as a concrete feeling of how it relates to either my personal interests, or those of my "node".
In FFXI, the status of the Crystal War shifts on a regular basis, and sometimes, depending on the positions of our forces, and the forces of our allied nations, operations tend to open up in forward areas, or even allied just areas that we are covering for them this week (this happens occasionally). I get new types of missions available that are specific to those forward areas. Even if the mission types are familiar, the means of executing them may be very different depending on the terrain and structure of that region. It provides a new perspective on areas that I am familiar with, and a reason to visit some that I haven't been to recently, while still integrating this with my regular game flows to provide a sense of a more living world. Even if I don't think too much about the changes in my local area, I notice more clearly the same level of changes elsewhere, if only simply because more change has happened in total since the last time I saw it.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Commissions Preview?
What do you mean "the additional lightning damage in rain isn't implemented yet"?
Are there similar systems you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
Covered above.
How do you feel about the way Commissions, side quests, and story arcs worked together during the Commissions Preview?
I liked the BDO x Netflix "Cursed" collab too. I don't feel like the showcase did a great job of telling me how they worked together, but obviously I can imagine, and my main experience with non-static (sorta) "breadcrumbs" writing of this quality that comes from the game, and not my RP leader, is from that collab, and these.
Econ Whining
I know why I don't have faith in Ashes economy yet, now.
In FFXI, EVE, Elite, your goal is money or fun factor, and levels are incidental. Leveling doesn't, in itself, pay money, at best it multiplies your gains a little bit. FFXI manages because it's a PvE game, EVE manages because it is 'full destruction' PvP, and Elite is in the middle, where you can't lose a LOT, but you also don't gain a lot because 'levels' are nowhere near the same type of thing.
These systems shown are great if Ashes is that type of game. Where you can just 'not bother to level up, but go out and gather and kill mobs in competition or niche to make money, and the thing you want, due to scarcity, is money.
If you don't want money, it's usually because the thing you want to buy isn't on the market and you have to go get it yourself. This is the core mental state of the three games I mentioned, as I experience them, actually. You want something, you go get it. If you have something you enjoy getting more, you get that and sell it and buy the thing if available.
Similarly, if a quest does not reward something you like, and isn't very fun for you, you just don't do it. You don't necessarily 'look for a different quest that does' either, because questing for mats and similar is only efficient when no one else wants to do it.
My advice is don't incentivize Commissions too much, basically. It might seem like a good engagement tool, but I feel it'll mess your game up. In Elite, my allied faction, by itself, acts in 20+ star systems. The Emperor controls thousands. Each and every one of these has its own 'Commissions board' equiv. Technically every single station or port has a separate one. I'm supposed to feel like sometimes 'I just don't care about this, it's not my thing'. And it works because just within one random sector, I know there are over two thousand missions I could choose from just by flying around for between 10 and 20 minutes (give or take 400 - Average of 7 missions per faction, 7 factions per system, 3 ports per system, 20 populated systems in what I'm calling a 'sector').
One team member noted as her feedback to pass on, that if she was your Econ designer she'd be mad at you for this. As 'our' Econ designer I don't entirely agree, even with my cynicism, but in explaining to her why, I realized what I needed to say on her behalf, i.e. the above.
Oh, also, being able to kill people for loot the moment they try to kill a boss is bad. Not a 'make it instanced' or 'protect PvE players' suggestion, though. Just be careful with the conditions under which the PvX happens. The Stormcall event is a prime example of a spot in the game where a very specific type of unnecessary pain-point occurs. Not because of the PvP, but because you created a situation where the goal is for functionally unprepared players to randomly engage in PvE and then effectively broadcasted their intended location to everyone in the area. So please solve this by changing the reward system/structure for sidequests that have area-tells.
It's not clear what happens if someone else just kills off the Stormcaller, anyway, so maybe I'm just whining here too, but there you go.
Weather events are fantastic, and I anticipate more occurrences like that, including earthquakes and volcano eruptions, I want to see mayhem on the land.
In Eve Online, since 2023, there's been the Opportunities system, which is entirely player-driven. In short, the CEO of a corporation creates quests and uses the corporation's resources to reward their members, both for PvP and PvE. CCP plans to expand the system, but currently, you can't create a public opportunity, which is a downside. I'd love to be able to launch public opportunities so that random people in the region could work for me and receive payment. Would be great castles and guilds having their own comissions board with player driven comissions.
The system looks like it has a lot of potential! It sounded like some side quests may be hidden / hard to find, especially due to the fact that some quests won't be available depending upon the world's state. Encountering new side-quests should hopefully make commissions feel a little less grindy when you're sent to the same area multiple times.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Commissions system?
I think it would be really cool to have multiple ways to complete certain side-quests. For example, when the minotaur handed the healing poultice over to Steven, my first thought was, "A random stranger just handed you a valuable object. Can you just keep that and use it for yourself?" I like the idea of being able to decide whether I want to be good or evil.
It wasn't mentioned in the stream, but I also like the thought of having secret quest completion options. Imagine that there was another NPC in the area that was dying and would accept the poultice as well. Finding the wounded NPC and choosing to give them the healing poultice instead, could lead you down a different quest chain with better rewards. I think that finding those types of secrets would feel really rewarding!
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Commissions Preview? How do you feel about the way Commissions, side quests, and story arcs worked together during the Commissions Preview?
One major concern I have is in regards to the pacing of the world state. Its really cool to have my interactions have effects upon the world, but in order for those interactions to mean anything the world has to stay in a particular state for a meaningful period of time. On paper, the idea of killing enough minotaurs to summon the stormcaller chieftain sounds really cool. However, I think this might be really frustrating in practice. If the chieftain has a high respawn rate, then the area will always be stormy and the event of summoning him won't feel special. On the other hand, if his respawn rate is too long, then I think most players will feel really conflicted. Do I grind minotaurs indefinitely, hoping the chieftain isn't on a 6 hour respawn cooldown, or do I just move on and pick up new commissions to level more efficiently?
Another concern I have is regarding quest sharing. Steven said that all quests are currently shareable. I hope he meant that all quests are shareable if the player is eligible to complete them and within a certain range of the quest sharer. Otherwise, you'll see some weird shenanigans from players. Guilds will park a player at the node's commission board and use quest sharing to avoid having to come back to town to get new commissions. Also, you might see players holding onto epic and legendary commissions so that they can share them with others. I can imagine my guild telling me that I'm not allowed to complete my commission because the tank isn't online tonight and he needs the reward from my epic commission.
Are there similar systems you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
The commission boards look very similar to the ones in New World. In that game, you quickly learn that certain commission types have much better reward/effort ratios than others. Even though you're given many different options, I found myself completing the same few commissions repeatedly. It would be nice to see diminishing returns when repeating commissions to encourage gameplay variety.
I also found myself picking up commissions and purposely waiting to complete them because waiting for the boards to reset was often more efficient. If I had a commission to loot chests in a certain area, I wouldn't complete it until the board reset and gave me the commission to kill mobs in the same area. I don't have a solution, but playing commission roulette to try to optimize your grinding efficiency is annoying so I hope you can find a better way to handle this issue.