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State of Monster Coins in 2024.

RocknonRocknon Member
edited March 13 in General Discussion
Monster coins seems like a really interesting mechanic that was announced but does not have much detail revealed in the last few years. I personally am very interested and hopeful for the mechanic but want to know how y'all feel. Maybe through discussion we can see where it is now, and what everyone is hopeful or worried about.

This ->https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Monster_coins#:~:text=Monster%20coins%20enable%20players%20to,become%20monsters%20and%20wreak%20havoc!
  1. Should they be sold in the cosmetic shop?
  2. Would you be interested in monster coin events where players control monsters have camps? (to be raided by players)
  3. Would you like also letting caravans be attacked by player controlled monsters? (random not neighboring nodes, battle of the three armies style add some spice to caravans where players might even ally at first)
  4. Could the progression by involvement in monster events unlock story telling features? (make a name on the server as a monster)
  5. Does the system let some players be bosses of the monster horde and some underlings, should it?
  6. Could the monster have abilities that spawned adds to give more strategy or longer battles?

It seems like the system now is like most in the world and a reaction to players actions. I will write a quick example of a cool way I hoped might be implemented and still follow this reactionary method:

A node is ranking up near a goblin camp. The game triggers a few monster coin events, do to the citizens of that node not pushing the goblins back enough. A player is lucky enough to have played monsters in that event multiple times and performs very well leveling that goblin up the most before being defeated. The node advances more... and triggers this event. The star or lucky player is personally given the ability to embody the Goblin Chief and give it a name. Say... Chief Kabeeki. Villagers begin to talk about need to cut the head from the serpent. Make a player raid event on the goblin fort and let the player be the chief with a bunch of other players using coins as the rest of the gobbos. idk something like that. Being able to level monsters to a point that you get to tell a story. Maybe even give the boss dialog he could click at points in the raid taunting the mayor of the node? Then if people really like the event let them rate it and earn that player the right to host more stories? If there were a way to do it safely without toxicity or "gaming the system" you could even let the player type up an event kick off dialog or write the 5 taunts he could shout during the event at the correct times. Then once the chief is defeated and the event is over perhaps all those that took part in it could rate it? And if the ranking were high allow that player to host more? (its dreaming big and I know it has holes, feel free to troll me now)

~Rocknon~

Below is attached a document that outlines some feedback/ideas for Monster Coins. If anyone is interested in these ideas be ye community or devs, feel free to view it and comment on it. This doc will be kept updated based on community feedback in this thread. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cIJOK1n8_NoQfJowhyzhvX7nGBYtNa4khuDm3vAr4jc/edit?usp=sharing
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Comments

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    VyrilVyril Member
    Monster coins can be a meme at this point. I'd be ok with a expansion for monster coins.

    They have about 50 other systems to polish in the next couple years.
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    unknownsystemerrorunknownsystemerror Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    They literally sold them as part of KS/Summer packs. They are coming. You don't have to like them, but you are going to get them.
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    AnimusRexAnimusRex Member
    edited March 12
    G'day Rocknon,

    You're not going to like this take after all your hard work on your post, but I think a lot of people are going to be pretty ambivalent about them. I know I am.

    I'm not going to protest loudly about them but they just don't feel right to me in this game. Hard to explain, but I just don't want to break my immersion in a character to become something else. Others will love them of course.

    When they first were mentioned in early streams, Steven said they were unique. The mechanism isn't of course. A DLC for DA:O had you playing as the Darkspawn. It was ok, novel at first, then meh. Maybe I'm tainted by that.

    Anywho, they are coming. Steven wants what Steven wants. Enjoy!
    The girl watched the last of the creatures die and murmured a soft 'Thank you' to her rescuer.

    The stranger's eyes lifted to the blood red cloud on the horizon.

    'We have to move. It's not safe here.'
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    LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited March 12
    They literally sold them as part of KS/Summer packs. They are coming. You don't have to like them, but you are going to get them.
    e23dijbkkjmw.png

    Subject to change, and feedback is valid. They also sold crossbow skins, which were removed and refunded as embers, and thats is fine, we all agreed on the ToS.

    "You acknowledge and agree that Intrepid may change, modify, “nerf,” delete, remove or otherwise alter the appearance, function, use and/or properties of any Game Assets at any time, in its sole discretion."

    I personally hope that monster tokens are removed/reworked to only be obtainable in-game.
    img]
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    If monster coins is to be kept as a function (I am personally indifferent to if they keep it or not) and Intrepid would be alright with modifying their current plans (according to the wiki: "purchasable from the cosmetic store"), perhaps appearances could be sold in the shop (like re-colors, slight reskins) but these skins can only be used to modify appropriate monster coins found ingame?

    As an example:
    Undead monster coins might have different style of skeletons/zombies/ghost coins that have different abilities, and you can perhaps find different appearances within each undead coin type in side quest-lines, ingame vendors and maybe a few in the cash shop?
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    RocknonRocknon Member
    edited March 12
    AnimusRex wrote: »
    G'day Rocknon,

    Hard to explain, but I just don't want to break my immersion in a character to become something else. Others will love them of course.

    Yeah I definitely hear you on this, and you are not alone. A lot of people feel this way. I actually do as well. I don’t like that a player is seen turning into a mob. If we look at the teaser where the player transforms into the mob. They had said “the monsters will be AI controlled and are coming regardless unless a player takes control via monster coin system”. This seems like the monsters exist in the world and then players “jack in” and take control. Maybe if when a coin is activated you just sit down and disappear as if logging out. Then you load into the mob where ever it is in the world. Other players would not even know or see the control change. For me this is allowing the player to play a different role in the world. You were your character, now you are the monster. Role playing games started with DnD. The players had roles as the PCs and the DM played the role of all npcs and monsters. If they pulled this off correctly you could hide the role switch. And allow players to basically make monsters less scripted.

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    Shouldn't really be in the Cosmetic Store, cos it's not just a cosmetic. It changes gameplay, adds gameplay, gives possible advantages to those buying the coin. It isn't a cosmetic. It's something that sounds a whole lot of fun, but it's not a cosmetic.

    Liniker wrote: »
    I personally hope that monster tokens are removed/reworked to only be obtainable in-game.
    I agree with Liniker here.


    Aaaaand I'm off now to wash my mouth out..... :D:D:D
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
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    RocknonRocknon Member
    edited March 12
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Shouldn't really be in the Cosmetic Store, cos it's not just a cosmetic. It changes gameplay, adds gameplay, gives possible advantages to those buying the coin. It isn't a cosmetic. It's something that sounds a whole lot of fun, but it's not a cosmetic.

    I agree. I too don’t think it needs to be in the shop. If they have to keep it in there for some reason maybe make 2 types? With the one sold there having little effect on other nodes? Like random world events.

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    RocknonRocknon Member

    As an example:
    Undead monster coins might have different style of skeletons/zombies/ghost coins that have different abilities, and you can perhaps find different appearances within each undead coin type in side quest-lines, ingame vendors and maybe a few in the cash shop?

    Yeah it would be cool if they insist on them in the shop if those didn’t have such a tactical advantage on pressuring neighbor nodes. Just pure cosmetic rewards. I personally would love a progression based monster system where you get to tell stories in the world. (As example in OP). And maybe through having different coins that could be implemented. I love the play as monster idea to give player vs mob battles that are not always the same so could be a fun challenge for players. If expanded on the system could become great player created content if a person chose to spend their time playing monsters. I’m old school tho. Been around since UO ans EQ and always loved GM events. It seems like if done right this could allow players to host these events for other players. My basic idea was that if you manage to survive you could snowball ans level your monster. Let’s say if you make it to lvl 5 you could name them. You could even log out ans log back in as them. They exist until they die. And if they snowball enough they could make ruckus on the server and have the name feared or eventually hunted. If devs were worried about “gaming the system” with this they could op to only allow this form of monster coin on servers you didn’t have citizens on. So a person would choose to make a name for themselves on the server as a storyteller by playing the mobs. It’s definitely expansion food, I don’t see any of this in release but hopefully if the monster system makes it in ans stays it might evolve.
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    NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Yeah, monster coins in the shop has always been icky to me. Even if the final reward is cosmetics, the fact is you can buy gameplay content in the shop that isn't just cosmetic if they sell coins.
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    Hands down, Guys.


    Who would also love to see a LiveStream Presentation of the Monster Coin System in 2024 ?

    If it's not invented in the Game yet, that's a Shame but i guess we can only wait then. ^.^
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    RocknonRocknon Member
    edited March 13
    My
    Aszkalon wrote: »
    Hands down, Guys.


    Who would also love to see a LiveStream Presentation of the Monster Coin System in 2024 ?

    If it's not invented in the Game yet, that's a Shame but i guess we can only wait then. ^.^

    100% upvote! I'm glad someone else actually wants to see what they got planned. I for one have wanted this in a game for a really long time. It was there in DnD which birthed this genre if you look to the roots. DM is a player and PvPed the characters. I'm personally really happy they are trying it. If I understand their idea now its basically world events will set off raids on the nodes. These raids happen with AI or they allow players to control the mobs in the raid. Hense the no pay to win justification. You would most likely not play the mob as well as the AI. I think that's the idea. But if the dev team spends the time to create a way for players to control monsters for this game mechanic it could be the start of something beautiful. All buying the content aside just looking at the potential I think there is a lot there. The trick would be not having it ruin the other plans of PvP among citizens and nodes. But there are many ways around that if the community is keen and the devs use it in other ways. I see random world events being a good angle. The world is huge just don't let the monsters choose where they spawn so its not used to grief neighbors. I would love something where they expand on it later and let raids or groups que up for monster play while online. If an event spawns outside the area of their influence they get to play those mobs. Defend a monster stronghold or dungeon. Level the mobs, tell a story ect... Make the players come take them out. It would add content to the game and bring life to the mobs who usually although dynamic would be predictable and more static as the game ages.
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    RocknonRocknon Member
    Nerror wrote: »
    Yeah, monster coins in the shop has always been icky to me. Even if the final reward is cosmetics, the fact is you can buy gameplay content in the shop that isn't just cosmetic if they sell coins.

    Yeah I agree. I see the point that its not pay to win, because the raid is going to happen on the node anyway. But it is content behind a paywall. Which is usually not great. And honestly I dont see the reason for it. I understand cosmetics fuel the assets and populate the world. Do you think monster coins in the shop are a similar thing? That is hard to code all these extra mobs animations and abilities so they need to fund them? Maybe it the coin system created more content other than letting you control raid mobs it could be justified for dev time without the need for coin sales?
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    Rocknon wrote: »
    Yeah I agree. I see the point that its not pay to win, because the raid is going to happen on the node anyway.

    But, if you can jump a character into the Monster Boss that's attacking your node (even if you're doing it with a non-node alt), then you can choose to sit there outside the main town and not disable any of the buildings, not kill your node-mates, etc.

    While the node next door that hasn't bought the Monster Coin then has the battle with the Monster Boss and the repair of its buildings, etc.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
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    unknownsystemerrorunknownsystemerror Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Rocknon wrote: »
    Nerror wrote: »
    Yeah, monster coins in the shop has always been icky to me. Even if the final reward is cosmetics, the fact is you can buy gameplay content in the shop that isn't just cosmetic if they sell coins.

    Yeah I agree. I see the point that its not pay to win, because the raid is going to happen on the node anyway. But it is content behind a paywall. Which is usually not great. And honestly I dont see the reason for it. I understand cosmetics fuel the assets and populate the world. Do you think monster coins in the shop are a similar thing? That is hard to code all these extra mobs animations and abilities so they need to fund them? Maybe it the coin system created more content other than letting you control raid mobs it could be justified for dev time without the need for coin sales?

    They can be earned in game. If you don't want to take the time and find them, then you can buy them.
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Rocknon wrote: »
    Yeah I agree. I see the point that its not pay to win, because the raid is going to happen on the node anyway.

    But, if you can jump a character into the Monster Boss that's attacking your node (even if you're doing it with a non-node alt), then you can choose to sit there outside the main town and not disable any of the buildings, not kill your node-mates, etc.

    While the node next door that hasn't bought the Monster Coin then has the battle with the Monster Boss and the repair of its buildings, etc.

    Was addressed years ago. You don't choose the event. Your participation is random in the world.
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    RocknonRocknon Member
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Rocknon wrote: »
    Yeah I agree. I see the point that its not pay to win, because the raid is going to happen on the node anyway.

    But, if you can jump a character into the Monster Boss that's attacking your node (even if you're doing it with a non-node alt), then you can choose to sit there outside the main town and not disable any of the buildings, not kill your node-mates, etc.

    While the node next door that hasn't bought the Monster Coin then has the battle with the Monster Boss and the repair of its buildings, etc.

    True. Maybe the flag for you having a citizen of a node has to be account based not character based so you can't game the system with alts?
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    RocknonRocknon Member
    edited March 13
    I made a Gdoc to try and list the common repeating feedback on the potential benifits or faults of the system posted by users in this thread. Also ideas/suggestions for use of the system. I will update this document to keep a running list of hope/concerns for Monster Coins as posted in this thread.

    Post your concerns or creative ideas and I'll update them into the document! :D

    Gdoc link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cIJOK1n8_NoQfJowhyzhvX7nGBYtNa4khuDm3vAr4jc/edit?usp=sharing
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    LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited March 13
    They can be earned in game. If you don't want to take the time and find them, then you can buy them.

    @unknownsystemerror really... they can be earned in game... what kind of argument is that?

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    ILLPeonUILLPeonU Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Good post OP, I definitely don't want to see them available in s shop, However I'm ok with possibly some dropping as part of a loot table from a dragon kill or other world boss. Also maybe you can get them through some social organizations as a reward for your contributions. These definitely need to be earned and not bought. Other than ones in the world we already know about from packages, but once those are gone then earned for sure.
    TwitchTV Streamer: The Hidden Dagger Inn Saturday's 5:00 PM Cst
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    https://youtube.com/@TheHiddenDaggerInn
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    RocknonRocknon Member
    Howdy Peon, Yeah seems like everyone is against the shop idea. I haven’t seen one post the other direction. Glad you like seeing the post and brought your opinion to this lovely soup.

    What do you mean by “social organizations”? Like a quest reward from NPC societies in the world?
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    RocknonRocknon Member
    Will this system be outlined in a LiveStream in 2024…. Flips a coin.

    Anyone else have any predictions or opinions about the system?
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    NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Liniker wrote: »
    unknownsystemerror really... they can be earned in game... what kind of argument is that?
    I think the argument there is that opting to play as the monster in a monster coin event isn't supposed to be an achievement, thus isn't something you "achieve", making the notion of buying them perfectly apt.

    In regards to the effect on the game as a whole, playing as the monster is basically the same as cosmetics - there is no actual impact on the game at all.
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    NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited March 17
    @Rocknon

    The way I see monster coins working is more along the lines of joining a queue to use it when you have one, and when a monster coin event is triggered that you are eligible for (ideally restricted to events on a different server), you would then be given the option to accept or decline the offer to become that monster. The invitation would tell you what kind of monster you are being invited to play (or what part of what type of monster).

    You shouldn't know what server you are going to be playing as the monster on, let alone what node. Once switched over to the monster, you shouldn't see any player names, chat or anything at all that can identify other players. I could see an in game voice chat set up automatically with the other players playing as monsters, but that is the only in game communication that should exist. I would take this to the point where all players are displayed in the default skin as per large scale sieges and such, so as to avoid any possiblity of being able to identify someone by appearance.

    You are literally now fighting as a player monster, with other players appearing as nothing more than NPC's to you.

    Once the event is over, there is then the possibility of getting a cosmetic reward from the event.

    Basically, the whole thing is a long winded, slightly more entertaining method to getting cosmetics. Selling the coins on the store is 100% appropriate - I'd probably be pissed off if I had one drop in place of some functional item in game.
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    RocknonRocknon Member
    edited March 17
    Gotcha. I will add this viewpoint to the doc. I think the Que idea when you use a coin fits with my hope for the system. I would go further with my dreams that you could Que up in a party or raid to play out an event as monsters. Which would help with voice com within monster group you spoke of.

    As for the important or relevance of monster coins I would hope they make them I into fun events for both sides. So it’s more about the activity than the reward. Like PvP that isn’t toxic amongst communities more for the pure thrill of battles. Would add PvP to the server without worrying about griefing if it were implemented correctly.

    Thanks for sharing your views and opinions. I think it’s cool to have the community talking about it incase it ever gets a discussion we could reference this post as feedback.
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    RocknonRocknon Member
    edited March 18
    I have said this in the thread through hopes and examples but I will ask it simply here.

    Are any of you interested in player controlled monsters hidden in the game? Like as you roam the open world not knowing if a mob or entire camp is actually players?

    I ask this because I have always wanted it in a game. Just imagine the idea without relating it to the effect on all other systems in AoC just purely would you enjoy that suspense?
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    ApokApok Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    from my understanding coins work like this, there will be NPC sieges on cities depending on the size of the node, coins are used by opposing cities to join in, and not just a mob; but a boss against that city to try and get the city to loose the fight.

    I think Steve said multiple times in streams that he wanted these coins to be rare maybe extremely rare based on how good they are and are more of a random prize when grinding dungeons. So I definitely don't see them showing up in the cash shop

    The coins to me seem to be a feature to layer over the game to give it some character while giving people something out of the norm to do. Think of it like this, on one hand you have cities being besieged by NPC hordes and on the other you have players raiding dungeons. Now take the concept of allowing the players to play as a big bad boss and it be relevant to the game without being game breaking. with monster coins you can do this by having a player whose lucky enough to get a coin take that bosses place in an NPC siege event
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    unknownsystemerrorunknownsystemerror Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Apok wrote: »
    I think Steve said multiple times in streams that he wanted these coins to be rare maybe extremely rare based on how good they are and are more of a random prize when grinding dungeons. So I definitely don't see them showing up in the cash shop

    Monster coins are obtainable from:

    Rare drops in-game.[21]
    Purchasable from the cosmetic store.[21]
    Monster coins are not tradeable.[8]
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Monster_coins
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    akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited March 20
    From the wiki:

    "Monster coins only allow a character to participate in events on their own server"

    Great way for some anonymous/rival nodal citizens / PvE`ers / PvP`er alike to have some collective fun!
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    AszkalonAszkalon Member
    edited March 20
    Rocknon wrote: »
    Are any of you interested in player controlled monsters hidden in the game ? Like as you roam the open world not knowing if a mob or entire camp is actually players ?

    100 Million % Yes.


    Imagine being the most dangerous and scary Group of Goblins in the whole Riverlands or everywhere else, where they might be.

    Imagine being a huge Group or even "Army" of Undead, roaming the Land and spread Dread and Horror everywhere. Like the Scourge of the North in Game of Thrones, or the Scourge in Warcraft III.


    It is also a refreshing change of Pace from usually only always using your own Character to fight.
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    akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited March 20
    Rocknon wrote: »

    Are any of you interested in player controlled monsters hidden in the game? Like as you roam the open world not knowing if a mob or entire camp is actually players?

    absolutely.. be it the chance to be an annoying little field rabbit or massive raid boss with some fun mechanics and anything in between.
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