What is your solution that does not involve giving more people to the person attempting to pk and making it easier for them?
Isn't Corruption already a nice Deterrent ?
You can lose not just Stuff from your Pockets but also your GEAR when You die as a corrupted Player.
Playerkillers will have to be careful.
I can imagine the fewest of them actually being bold enough to move around alone while they murder other Players and get corrupted for Minutes of Minutes to come. >;-]
You are missing the point with what I'm saying, players will do whatever they can to win in most cases. Meaning any advantage they can use in a fight they will use good or bad.
Which means Ow pvp is low because of the consequences but sieges are high because of the consequences. It doesn't mean its a green flag to make it easy for people to do whatever they can or the most scummy things to win every fight or destroy economies.
I don't see that many people pking in AoC so long as there is a good amount of population and people again content pushing people to play in groups. I don't think a dps is going to want to stack up on 3 corruption kills like that as a constant thing.
You underestimate the fuel some gankers have. Gankers also work in groups and nothing is better or adds more kudos than wiping another group. Especially if you wipe a group without casualties. As corruption doesn't degrade your pve effectiveness then its a no brainer that groups will quite happily wipe another group to take a grind spot and some will wipe groups just for fun.
I think u are underestimating the effect of corruption if you think people are going to roll in groups and kill people. Effectively your corruption build up is going to immensely increase since you are now killing groups of people. Meaning you will be more of a target for people for a longer period of time and every time you kill someone again you are gaining more corruption.
On top of that every time you kill a person you gain more corruption per kill, meaning if you have killed 10 people over your accounts life time you are gaining more corruption per kill than your first kill as it builds up.
Since it is the killers that are corrupted everyone else can attack them for free without turning purple meaning if there are like 30 people around the area seeing them there is a good chance someone is going to attack them to hope they drop their gear.
People that have not experienced these systems are severely underestimating the effect of being a big red flag with a ton of other people around. You are effectively potential loot everyone will want to take.
I don't think you've played on a pvp server before if you think its any different to be red. Gankers names get called out on global and you get hunted constantly until you log off - there is no arbitrary function that prevents further hunting/retribution when you turn green again. The system is a fallacy and makes people like you believe something which is not the case.
You not talking about any factual information while I'm basing my onw information off playing games where you can free attack people with different rule sets.
Having experience playing different pvp in different mmorpgs I can clearly see the different responses of players, while you don't actually reference any element of pvp mmorpgs in your comment you just say what you think while not backing it off how things work in game or past expereinces with mmorpgs as examples.
If you had experience in these mmorpgs you would clearly see the differences between a game like Shadowbane for example with 0 rule sets and full loot drop compared to BDO with a buffer system before you turn red and seeing the difference of pvp between bot those games.
The way you are talking like "Play on a pvp server" Further pushers my point about you having a lack of experience with these types of things. Because PvP servers generally do not have rule sets to control PvP or very limited. IE Shadowbane being a full pvp game, compared to BDO that doesn't work off "PvP server" (though they added a pvp shard where u can see the difference between the base game).
PvP server is added on generally though the game was designed overall as a PvE game IE WoW, Rift, Swtor and don't really have rules against pvp besides not killing your own faction. Games designed to intended PvP on the game like BDO do not have PvE or PvP servers. But there is a rule set to keep people in check from killing everyone and making sure it is not a form around a player being red (Ie u can view it as corrupted). The rule sets you can see directly influence how often and willing someone is to PvP or take other ways around going red in the situation because of that limit.
This is what i mean when people say things but don't actually understand these elements of pvp like your comment and use any kind of game comparison
Unsure why you are bringing up the point of saying you call out a gankers name and them getting hunted. Technically that works in the point I'm trying to say in people won't just go corrupted like you are trying to suggest. Though im unsure if that is actually going to be a reality since its not really common around pvp type mmorpgs (Not your Pve ones with a added pvp server where you calling out calls out your own faction.)
What are you talking about? I've been ganked in BDO plenty of times lol. I've also played pvp servers in 23 MMOs. People went red all the time in l2. People will go red all the time in Ashes too. I don't think you understand human behaviour.
I'm telling you how gankers I know operate and their plans for release. Gankers love to gank. It's not about loot per say and its not even about death penalties. Its about power. You're a prime target because you are gullible and will expect a group to protect you by default.
Furthermore, it's not expected that a whole group won't fight back. Its debatable if corruption would even happen because you lure the targets into a false sense of security and then wipe the floor with the targets. It's the same in any game with pvp.
What are you talking about? I've been ganked in BDO plenty of times lol. I've also played pvp servers in 23 MMOs. People went red all the time in l2. People will go red all the time in Ashes too. I don't think you understand human behaviour.
I'm telling you how gankers I know operate and their plans for release. Gankers love to gank. It's not about loot per say and its not even about death penalties. Its about power. You're a prime target because you are gullible and will expect a group to protect you by default.
Furthermore, it's not expected that a whole group won't fight back. Its debatable if corruption would even happen because you lure the targets into a false sense of security and then wipe the floor with the targets. It's the same in any game with pvp.
You aren't making a good point, im going to make this even more clear using BDO as an example since you must have played it somewhat. What is the % of times roughly you were ganked by a red player (negative karma) in BDO compared to being ganked by a non red player.
(I'm really not talking about players that fight back I'm talking about people willing to go corrupted and stack a ton of kills that build corruption based on lifetime of account. While you say people have no regard for life time increases on accounts with the sever penalties.)
I know how people willing to flag up and kill people are quite well actually because I'm one of those people. But im not going to go red with 20 people around me because of the punishments. Even if I wanted to i have to taken into account every time i kill someone it takes longer to grind off corruption meaning if i feel like killing someone for no reason that has a permanent cost.
When you talk about pvp servers that is akin to rift, swtor, wow there is no draw back to massacring everyone.
I'm not sure how you conflate killing a group of people to having no regard for a lifetime tracker. How will you know twenty people are around you? BDO is a bad example because you stack karma for kills and head into the desert where you lost nothing in pvp death even if red. In the desert you just farmed xp and gems off the monsters there, no item degradation and turn the karma back to positive. I see no reason why those same principles don't apply in Ashes. If a grind spot is contested you can bet you'll have a fight on your hands. You seem to believe the corruption system will stop any conflict and I'm telling you the corruption system won't. Hell, even the corruption will be worked off in a grind spot or prime location after conflict for the spot.
I'm not sure how you conflate killing a group of people to having no regard for a lifetime tracker. How will you know twenty people are around you? BDO is a bad example because you stack karma for kills and head into the desert where you lost nothing in pvp death even if red. In the desert you just farmed xp and gems off the monsters there, no item degradation and turn the karma back to positive. I see no reason why those same principles don't apply in Ashes. If a grind spot is contested you can bet you'll have a fight on your hands. You seem to believe the corruption system will stop any conflict and I'm telling you the corruption system won't. Hell, even the corruption will be worked off in a grind spot or prime location after conflict for the spot.
Im unsure how much you played BDO but you are giving me a lower level answer saying "you just go in the desert" when that is the one place everyone generally respects and ask "duel for spot" and choose not even go for a single pk with karma. Because the moment u die you go to jail and end up wasting time running back and forth constantly.
Your your point feels pretty weak in how im viewing your experience with the amount you played bdo since this is like basic 101 stuff tot he point you are getting the principles wrong.
Ill wait to here your comment on this aspect since it will make proving my point even easier.
Lmao. I can see we are two different breeds. You can leave jail pretty rapidly by jumping through jail without stamina use without loss of anything and end up in muiquan. In fact, if you start in Valencia you only have to suffer 30 minutes of the Villain Mark and should be able to grind back to positive karma in said 30 minutes.
However, if you have ganked low gear scored players a lot then 30 minutes isn't enough time. Your best bet was to gain 100,000 positive karma before starting your murder spree. Anyway, you certainly don't join the duelists as negative karma. If you die with negative karma in the desert you will have to return to jail and start the loop all over again.
Lmao. I can see we are two different breeds. You can leave jail pretty rapidly by jumping through jail without stamina use without loss of anything and end up in muiquan. In fact, if you start in Valencia you only have to suffer 30 minutes of the Villain Mark and should be able to grind back to positive karma in said 30 minutes.
However, if you have ganked low gear scored players a lot then 30 minutes isn't enough time. Your best bet was to gain 100,000 positive karma before starting your murder spree. Anyway, you certainly don't join the duelists as negative karma. If you die with negative karma in the desert you will have to return to jail and start the loop all over again.
Getting sent to jail over and over is a pretty big deal, means you won't be making a whole lot of money. Exactly why in my other points about people asking duel for spot and waiting for secs to avoid even a single pk kill.
Next the fact you say people will go to the desert (which isn't really true people grind where they make money not because of karma) already shows an impact of being in negative karma having an effect. Which again can be related to corruption, though corruption effect is much stronger than being red in BDO. Stronger severity = less people will to risk dealing with it or as frequently.
The point you are making leans towards what I have been saying in you are not going to see tons of red people everywhere. Even by chance population on the game isn't thick enough to see people all around you, they also have a BH system as well to track players bringing people towards them.
If you are stacking tons of karma before killing people that agaaaain leads to giving more weight to my point on people trying to avoid being in negative karma (aka corrupt). Again I feel you are not understanding the weight corruption will have and how that is not something people are going to be doing actively.
This is why i asked you how often red players have killed you on BDO, because i know for a fact that was not common in the slightest. Either people feed you to mobs, stop pking to get karma back or end up leaving over becoming red. I played BDO for too many years to see the patterns and sat in the worse kinds of peoples rotations so i am well aware of the limits having pressed all the buttons on people. As my goal was to get them to go red and feed them to mobs (which ends up being only a rare case). Even after going red people don't stick around long to find out or one death to mobs makes them leave and not come back.
Now with a stronger system not needing to rely on pve but player kills able to drop their gear.....You can see where I'm going with this in how people are literally not going to want to be corrupt and dying to players.
You have ignored my actual points. The whole goal of a ganker is to gank. Not to make money. There are dedicated toons/accounts for ganking on. Its not something you do on your main because of the aforementioned name calling that happens, the lock out of raids that happens and the social pariah aspect that happens after constant kill sprees. The fact remains there will be a lot of red karma and those people will suffer the karma bombs like they do in BDO. I'm not even sure how we will make money in ashes because I'm not one for the lack of gold from mobs. The other aspect remains that there is no prison in Ashes, therefore, the punishment system is completely different and more akin to Lineage 2. When a group works together to gank then there is less chance the group will be killed at a grind spot unless another group arrives for the feat. Then the spiral is not prison but negative karma bombs. The main pull for going red is the fight with bounty hunters which will be an experience all alone.
You have ignored my actual points. The whole goal of a ganker is to gank. Not to make money. There are dedicated toons/accounts for ganking on. Its not something you do on your main because of the aforementioned name calling that happens, the lock out of raids that happens and the social pariah aspect that happens after constant kill sprees. The fact remains there will be a lot of red karma and those people will suffer the karma bombs like they do in BDO. I'm not even sure how we will make money in ashes because I'm not one for the lack of gold from mobs. The other aspect remains that there is no prison in Ashes, therefore, the punishment system is completely different and more akin to Lineage 2. When a group works together to gank then there is less chance the group will be killed at a grind spot unless another group arrives for the feat. Then the spiral is not prison but negative karma bombs. The main pull for going red is the fight with bounty hunters which will be an experience all alone.
The main point is people are not going to go corrupt to pk people do to the system in the majority of cases as this system is far stronger than any other game in terms of punishment. I used BDO as an example that shows a clear pattern and the fact people will stop pking when they are close to red or avoid it in the desert.
The group aspect is a two way street that again is in favor of less pking. A group orientated game means more people and more groups around different areas and rotations as they do content. That means if you are going to pk you have to risk getting multiple amounts of corruption for each player. This scales higher towards DPS since they will be the ones getting corruption, and per kill on your account gives more corruption additively. Of course not all them are just going to stand there and die but they can come back and now they have a clear red target they can attack without consequences or some other group comes along and kills the red player.
Its not going to be optimal to have red players and getting attacked for free and losing the whole point of grinding the dungeon to make money / xp.
If i wasn't the group that attacked and I'm rolling with my group and i see a red player we would 100% kill them and if the others flag we would kill them as well. By chance we get a gear drop bonus loot of us.
This is where we differ. The gankers are hitting low level groups, thus, wiping them quite easily. Otherwise, I foresee a group vs group fight where no one is red because everyone has flagged. There's two sides to the coin here and two completely different aims. The fact remains that world pvp is not halted by corruption but murder hobos are tamed by corruption. In my mind, if one group member has to turn red its fair game, if everyone has to turn red its time to look for another target. This goes double for raids and raid boss fights where someone has to instigate the combat.
This is where we differ. The gankers are hitting low level groups, thus, wiping them quite easily. Otherwise, I foresee a group vs group fight where no one is red because everyone has flagged. There's two sides to the coin here and two completely different aims. The fact remains that world pvp is not halted by corruption but murder hobos are tamed by corruption. In my mind, if one group member has to turn red its fair game, if everyone has to turn red its time to look for another target. This goes double for raids and raid boss fights where someone has to instigate the combat.
I'd rather not go towards that side of the argument atm, and not talking about targeting lower levels. Unless you are agree corruption will remove most kinds of pk around that element I'm talking about.
Its not going to prevent the killing of low levels at all. The problem is all the mobs are located in similar areas due to the node system and grind spots will be mixed areas as well as straight areas. Therefore, I feel the corruption is ripe to be gained. Furthermore, I still feel that a node war/guild war will see many gankers in their element because I don't think you go corrupted killing lower levels in a node war/guild war.
Its not going to prevent the killing of low levels at all. The problem is all the mobs are located in similar areas due to the node system and grind spots will be mixed areas as well as straight areas. Therefore, I feel the corruption is ripe to be gained. Furthermore, I still feel that a node war/guild war will see many gankers in their element because I don't think you go corrupted killing lower levels in a node war/guild war.
Can we focus on not talking about killing lower levels right now...I can talk about that after.
Well, you are talking about massive karma bombs. You only get massive karma bombs killing lower levels. Its quite manageable to go red slightly if you hit a same level toon/same geared toon. Steven used to say one or two kills wasn't a big deal. Therefore, I still believe group vs group will see an instigator. I also believe that a player will be less likely not to fight back if the player is in a group.
Well, you are talking about massive karma bombs. You only get massive karma bombs killing lower levels. Its quite manageable to go red slightly if you hit a same level toon/same geared toon. Steven used to say one or two kills wasn't a big deal. Therefore, I still believe group vs group will see an instigator. I also believe that a player will be less likely not to fight back if the player is in a group.
You were talking about lifetime karma stacking which will build slower killing one or two players a time. I really don't foresee an aspect where world pvp will boil down to corruption and anti corruption more times than not. I feel that the majority of players are pvp centric and therefore would fight rather than karma bomb. A ganker doesn't aim to kill greens, a ganker aims to kill groups/players. If the groups/players fight back all the better for achievement.
You were talking about lifetime karma stacking which will build slower killing one or two players a time. I really don't foresee an aspect where world pvp will boil down to corruption and anti corruption more times than not. I feel that the majority of players are pvp centric and therefore would fight rather than karma bomb. A ganker doesn't aim to kill greens, a ganker aims to kill groups/players. If the groups/players fight back all the better for achievement.
The point about life time corruption means every time you are pking that is building up and making it much worse. If you are going from gaining 100 corruption to 700 per kill, and it starts to take a long time to work off people are most likely not going to risk pking a player knowing its going to continue to increase.
We are making an assumption there are going to be all types of players as well as all types of strategies. That doesn't mean everyone is going to simply just flag up. Though if for whatever reason everyone flags up all the time, than this isn't really a conversation about corruption anymore. So I'd be saying what is the point talking about corruption if you think everyone will flag up? (don't actually answer that).
Clearly we are talking about corruption and the instances where people don't fight back. From not wanting to, feeling like they don't have anything to lose, or wanting the player to go red.
Its difficult to quantify in truth. I need to test the corruption system in A2. I think a lot of players want to test the corruption system in A2. I'm not sure how long it takes to clear the karma or how long it takes to build the karma. I'm not sure of the karma thresholds or the percentage thresholds for losing gear. I'm also not sure how the dynamics will work because I'd aim to bait players to attack and then finish those players. Of course, if I meet my hard counter and I'm alone I would karma bomb if the challenge stack is indomitable in a hard counters favour.
The decision tree starts with "i will attack that player over there" and not "oh my do i fight back". The idea that somebody rather takes a hit to XP and materials (assuming not max level) seems odd. Besides the gear drop panic is overblown. Only wear what you are willing to risk.
Its difficult to quantify in truth. I need to test the corruption system in A2. I think a lot of players want to test the corruption system in A2. I'm not sure how long it takes to clear the karma or how long it takes to build the karma. I'm not sure of the karma thresholds or the percentage thresholds for losing gear. I'm also not sure how the dynamics will work because I'd aim to bait players to attack and then finish those players. Of course, if I meet my hard counter and I'm alone I would karma bomb if the challenge stack is indomitable in a hard counters favour.
I'm unsure how long it takes but we need to remember their goal with what they have been saying. As again things will be tested and balanced in the game.
IE killing lowbies they can always increase the amount of corruption and such, or in general to the point they are happy with it. And give more tools to BH for finding them based on what they feel is fair.
I was going by what was said by Steven, However, I have not kept a close eye on matters since November to be honest. I wasn't sure if new information had been given on the subject matter. Still, a system that punishes one or two kills to the extreme would be a bad system. You must be able to combat griefers because green griefers will be the worst kind.
I was going by what was said by Steven, However, I have not kept a close eye on matters since November to be honest. I wasn't sure if new information had been given on the subject matter. Still, a system that punishes one or two kills to the extreme would be a bad system. You must be able to combat griefers because green griefers will be the worst kind.
He even referenced again on this stream talking about corruption and saying it highly discourages pvp around corruption use. So i guess it is up to each is own interpretation on the percent that it will reduce until they see more. But based on the wording it is going to be tuned towards pvers.
I was going by what was said by Steven, However, I have not kept a close eye on matters since November to be honest. I wasn't sure if new information had been given on the subject matter. Still, a system that punishes one or two kills to the extreme would be a bad system. You must be able to combat griefers because green griefers will be the worst kind.
He even referenced again on this stream talking about corruption and saying it highly discourages pvp around corruption use. So i guess it is up to each is own interpretation on the percent that it will reduce until they see more. But based on the wording it is going to be tuned towards pvers.
You say it will be tuned towards pvers but the ocean is forced pvp. Thus, pvers won't likely play in droves or they will simply be stuck on one land mass or the other.
I was going by what was said by Steven, However, I have not kept a close eye on matters since November to be honest. I wasn't sure if new information had been given on the subject matter. Still, a system that punishes one or two kills to the extreme would be a bad system. You must be able to combat griefers because green griefers will be the worst kind.
He even referenced again on this stream talking about corruption and saying it highly discourages pvp around corruption use. So i guess it is up to each is own interpretation on the percent that it will reduce until they see more. But based on the wording it is going to be tuned towards pvers.
You say it will be tuned towards pvers but the ocean is forced pvp. Thus, pvers won't likely play in droves or they will simply be stuck on one land mass or the other.
What does the ocean have to do with corruption?!?!?
I was going by what was said by Steven, However, I have not kept a close eye on matters since November to be honest. I wasn't sure if new information had been given on the subject matter. Still, a system that punishes one or two kills to the extreme would be a bad system. You must be able to combat griefers because green griefers will be the worst kind.
He even referenced again on this stream talking about corruption and saying it highly discourages pvp around corruption use. So i guess it is up to each is own interpretation on the percent that it will reduce until they see more. But based on the wording it is going to be tuned towards pvers.
You say it will be tuned towards pvers but the ocean is forced pvp. Thus, pvers won't likely play in droves or they will simply be stuck on one land mass or the other.
What does the ocean have to do with corruption?!?!?
there is no corruption on the ocean...hence the whole reason people like Dygz won't play. If Dygz won't play then a lot of people of the same calibre as Dygz won't play for the same reasons. Its not about corruption, its about forced pvp. We had a debate about forced pvp a few months ago and it was stated the corruption system stops forced pvp. Well, my stance was it does not stop forced pvp because forced pvp does not exist in a pvx game. You sign up for pvp when you sign into the game. Thus, there should not be a disparity between pvp and pve players, just pvx players and no preferential treatment should be given to non conformists.
I was going by what was said by Steven, However, I have not kept a close eye on matters since November to be honest. I wasn't sure if new information had been given on the subject matter. Still, a system that punishes one or two kills to the extreme would be a bad system. You must be able to combat griefers because green griefers will be the worst kind.
He even referenced again on this stream talking about corruption and saying it highly discourages pvp around corruption use. So i guess it is up to each is own interpretation on the percent that it will reduce until they see more. But based on the wording it is going to be tuned towards pvers.
You say it will be tuned towards pvers but the ocean is forced pvp. Thus, pvers won't likely play in droves or they will simply be stuck on one land mass or the other.
What does the ocean have to do with corruption?!?!?
there is no corruption on the ocean...hence the whole reason people like Dygz won't play. If Dygz won't play then a lot of people of the same calibre as Dygz won't play for the same reasons. Its not about corruption, its about forced pvp. We had a debate about forced pvp a few months ago and it was stated the corruption system stops forced pvp. Well, my stance was it does not stop forced pvp because forced pvp does not exist in a pvx game. You sign up for pvp when you sign into the game. Thus, there should not be a disparity between pvp and pve players, just pvx players and no preferential treatment should be given to non conformists.
I think you are getting conversations mixed up, I'm not talking about general pvp I'm talking about corruption and its effects. in reducing pvp around it.
A conversation about the amount of pvp in the game is a different discussion.
I was going by what was said by Steven, However, I have not kept a close eye on matters since November to be honest. I wasn't sure if new information had been given on the subject matter. Still, a system that punishes one or two kills to the extreme would be a bad system. You must be able to combat griefers because green griefers will be the worst kind.
He even referenced again on this stream talking about corruption and saying it highly discourages pvp around corruption use. So i guess it is up to each is own interpretation on the percent that it will reduce until they see more. But based on the wording it is going to be tuned towards pvers.
You say it will be tuned towards pvers but the ocean is forced pvp. Thus, pvers won't likely play in droves or they will simply be stuck on one land mass or the other.
What does the ocean have to do with corruption?!?!?
there is no corruption on the ocean...hence the whole reason people like Dygz won't play. If Dygz won't play then a lot of people of the same calibre as Dygz won't play for the same reasons. Its not about corruption, its about forced pvp. We had a debate about forced pvp a few months ago and it was stated the corruption system stops forced pvp. Well, my stance was it does not stop forced pvp because forced pvp does not exist in a pvx game. You sign up for pvp when you sign into the game. Thus, there should not be a disparity between pvp and pve players, just pvx players and no preferential treatment should be given to non conformists.
I think you are getting conversations mixed up, I'm not talking about general pvp I'm talking about corruption and its effects. in reducing pvp around it.
A conversation about the amount of pvp in the game is a different discussion.
I'm discussing corruption and the effect it has. No corruption on the ocean means pve players won't play. Therefore, a vain attempt to dissuade the pvp players elsewhere through over harsh punishments just won't fly. It won't stop anyone from killing a green because killing a green has reason behind it. It will stop massacres and people killing lower levels. However, green person hoarding resources - prime target. Green person taking my mobs - prime target. Green person training mobs into me - prime target.
I was going by what was said by Steven, However, I have not kept a close eye on matters since November to be honest. I wasn't sure if new information had been given on the subject matter. Still, a system that punishes one or two kills to the extreme would be a bad system. You must be able to combat griefers because green griefers will be the worst kind.
He even referenced again on this stream talking about corruption and saying it highly discourages pvp around corruption use. So i guess it is up to each is own interpretation on the percent that it will reduce until they see more. But based on the wording it is going to be tuned towards pvers.
You say it will be tuned towards pvers but the ocean is forced pvp. Thus, pvers won't likely play in droves or they will simply be stuck on one land mass or the other.
What does the ocean have to do with corruption?!?!?
there is no corruption on the ocean...hence the whole reason people like Dygz won't play. If Dygz won't play then a lot of people of the same calibre as Dygz won't play for the same reasons. Its not about corruption, its about forced pvp. We had a debate about forced pvp a few months ago and it was stated the corruption system stops forced pvp. Well, my stance was it does not stop forced pvp because forced pvp does not exist in a pvx game. You sign up for pvp when you sign into the game. Thus, there should not be a disparity between pvp and pve players, just pvx players and no preferential treatment should be given to non conformists.
I think you are getting conversations mixed up, I'm not talking about general pvp I'm talking about corruption and its effects. in reducing pvp around it.
A conversation about the amount of pvp in the game is a different discussion.
I'm discussing corruption and the effect it has. No corruption on the ocean means pve players won't play. Therefore, a vain attempt to dissuade the pvp players elsewhere through over harsh punishments just won't fly. It won't stop anyone from killing a green because killing a green has reason behind it. It will stop massacres and people killing lower levels. However, green person hoarding resources - prime target. Green person taking my mobs - prime target. Green person training mobs into me - prime target.
Saying no corruption on ocean and no pve players will play is too much of a stretch to say that and using an extreme example like dygz does not make a lot of sense.
Again corruption has no link to the ocean in a disccusion around will corruption prevent someone from pking and then you are bringing up an entirely different system that does not effect what I'm talking about.
Even if someone is a prime target than your goal would be to making some kind of gain be it xp or items from mobs. The thing is people will always be "prime target" and you will lose more than gain from killing everyone farming mobs around you. Again yes you can get a potion of their drops but when you die being red you are dropping far more than you get on top of 4* xp debt. If the game as a population you are going to be seen by people and most likely killed unless you go deeper into corruption.
So if your goal is to gain xp / loot corruption is not going to be the best way at removing people without significant risk to losing more than what you got. Leading to relying on other pvp systems int he game over corruption (which means people will choose to not pk and wait to use the other system before killing someone)
Comments
You not talking about any factual information while I'm basing my onw information off playing games where you can free attack people with different rule sets.
Having experience playing different pvp in different mmorpgs I can clearly see the different responses of players, while you don't actually reference any element of pvp mmorpgs in your comment you just say what you think while not backing it off how things work in game or past expereinces with mmorpgs as examples.
If you had experience in these mmorpgs you would clearly see the differences between a game like Shadowbane for example with 0 rule sets and full loot drop compared to BDO with a buffer system before you turn red and seeing the difference of pvp between bot those games.
The way you are talking like "Play on a pvp server" Further pushers my point about you having a lack of experience with these types of things. Because PvP servers generally do not have rule sets to control PvP or very limited. IE Shadowbane being a full pvp game, compared to BDO that doesn't work off "PvP server" (though they added a pvp shard where u can see the difference between the base game).
PvP server is added on generally though the game was designed overall as a PvE game IE WoW, Rift, Swtor and don't really have rules against pvp besides not killing your own faction. Games designed to intended PvP on the game like BDO do not have PvE or PvP servers. But there is a rule set to keep people in check from killing everyone and making sure it is not a form around a player being red (Ie u can view it as corrupted). The rule sets you can see directly influence how often and willing someone is to PvP or take other ways around going red in the situation because of that limit.
This is what i mean when people say things but don't actually understand these elements of pvp like your comment and use any kind of game comparison
Unsure why you are bringing up the point of saying you call out a gankers name and them getting hunted. Technically that works in the point I'm trying to say in people won't just go corrupted like you are trying to suggest. Though im unsure if that is actually going to be a reality since its not really common around pvp type mmorpgs (Not your Pve ones with a added pvp server where you calling out calls out your own faction.)
I'm telling you how gankers I know operate and their plans for release. Gankers love to gank. It's not about loot per say and its not even about death penalties. Its about power. You're a prime target because you are gullible and will expect a group to protect you by default.
Furthermore, it's not expected that a whole group won't fight back. Its debatable if corruption would even happen because you lure the targets into a false sense of security and then wipe the floor with the targets. It's the same in any game with pvp.
You aren't making a good point, im going to make this even more clear using BDO as an example since you must have played it somewhat. What is the % of times roughly you were ganked by a red player (negative karma) in BDO compared to being ganked by a non red player.
(I'm really not talking about players that fight back I'm talking about people willing to go corrupted and stack a ton of kills that build corruption based on lifetime of account. While you say people have no regard for life time increases on accounts with the sever penalties.)
I know how people willing to flag up and kill people are quite well actually because I'm one of those people. But im not going to go red with 20 people around me because of the punishments. Even if I wanted to i have to taken into account every time i kill someone it takes longer to grind off corruption meaning if i feel like killing someone for no reason that has a permanent cost.
When you talk about pvp servers that is akin to rift, swtor, wow there is no draw back to massacring everyone.
Im unsure how much you played BDO but you are giving me a lower level answer saying "you just go in the desert" when that is the one place everyone generally respects and ask "duel for spot" and choose not even go for a single pk with karma. Because the moment u die you go to jail and end up wasting time running back and forth constantly.
Your your point feels pretty weak in how im viewing your experience with the amount you played bdo since this is like basic 101 stuff tot he point you are getting the principles wrong.
Ill wait to here your comment on this aspect since it will make proving my point even easier.
However, if you have ganked low gear scored players a lot then 30 minutes isn't enough time. Your best bet was to gain 100,000 positive karma before starting your murder spree. Anyway, you certainly don't join the duelists as negative karma. If you die with negative karma in the desert you will have to return to jail and start the loop all over again.
Getting sent to jail over and over is a pretty big deal, means you won't be making a whole lot of money. Exactly why in my other points about people asking duel for spot and waiting for secs to avoid even a single pk kill.
Next the fact you say people will go to the desert (which isn't really true people grind where they make money not because of karma) already shows an impact of being in negative karma having an effect. Which again can be related to corruption, though corruption effect is much stronger than being red in BDO. Stronger severity = less people will to risk dealing with it or as frequently.
The point you are making leans towards what I have been saying in you are not going to see tons of red people everywhere. Even by chance population on the game isn't thick enough to see people all around you, they also have a BH system as well to track players bringing people towards them.
If you are stacking tons of karma before killing people that agaaaain leads to giving more weight to my point on people trying to avoid being in negative karma (aka corrupt). Again I feel you are not understanding the weight corruption will have and how that is not something people are going to be doing actively.
This is why i asked you how often red players have killed you on BDO, because i know for a fact that was not common in the slightest. Either people feed you to mobs, stop pking to get karma back or end up leaving over becoming red. I played BDO for too many years to see the patterns and sat in the worse kinds of peoples rotations so i am well aware of the limits having pressed all the buttons on people. As my goal was to get them to go red and feed them to mobs (which ends up being only a rare case). Even after going red people don't stick around long to find out or one death to mobs makes them leave and not come back.
Now with a stronger system not needing to rely on pve but player kills able to drop their gear.....You can see where I'm going with this in how people are literally not going to want to be corrupt and dying to players.
The main point is people are not going to go corrupt to pk people do to the system in the majority of cases as this system is far stronger than any other game in terms of punishment. I used BDO as an example that shows a clear pattern and the fact people will stop pking when they are close to red or avoid it in the desert.
The group aspect is a two way street that again is in favor of less pking. A group orientated game means more people and more groups around different areas and rotations as they do content. That means if you are going to pk you have to risk getting multiple amounts of corruption for each player. This scales higher towards DPS since they will be the ones getting corruption, and per kill on your account gives more corruption additively. Of course not all them are just going to stand there and die but they can come back and now they have a clear red target they can attack without consequences or some other group comes along and kills the red player.
Its not going to be optimal to have red players and getting attacked for free and losing the whole point of grinding the dungeon to make money / xp.
If i wasn't the group that attacked and I'm rolling with my group and i see a red player we would 100% kill them and if the others flag we would kill them as well. By chance we get a gear drop bonus loot of us.
I'd rather not go towards that side of the argument atm, and not talking about targeting lower levels. Unless you are agree corruption will remove most kinds of pk around that element I'm talking about.
Can we focus on not talking about killing lower levels right now...I can talk about that after.
I'm not talking about massive karma bombing...
The point about life time corruption means every time you are pking that is building up and making it much worse. If you are going from gaining 100 corruption to 700 per kill, and it starts to take a long time to work off people are most likely not going to risk pking a player knowing its going to continue to increase.
We are making an assumption there are going to be all types of players as well as all types of strategies. That doesn't mean everyone is going to simply just flag up. Though if for whatever reason everyone flags up all the time, than this isn't really a conversation about corruption anymore. So I'd be saying what is the point talking about corruption if you think everyone will flag up? (don't actually answer that).
Clearly we are talking about corruption and the instances where people don't fight back. From not wanting to, feeling like they don't have anything to lose, or wanting the player to go red.
I'm unsure how long it takes but we need to remember their goal with what they have been saying. As again things will be tested and balanced in the game.
IE killing lowbies they can always increase the amount of corruption and such, or in general to the point they are happy with it. And give more tools to BH for finding them based on what they feel is fair.
He even referenced again on this stream talking about corruption and saying it highly discourages pvp around corruption use. So i guess it is up to each is own interpretation on the percent that it will reduce until they see more. But based on the wording it is going to be tuned towards pvers.
You say it will be tuned towards pvers but the ocean is forced pvp. Thus, pvers won't likely play in droves or they will simply be stuck on one land mass or the other.
What does the ocean have to do with corruption?!?!?
there is no corruption on the ocean...hence the whole reason people like Dygz won't play. If Dygz won't play then a lot of people of the same calibre as Dygz won't play for the same reasons. Its not about corruption, its about forced pvp. We had a debate about forced pvp a few months ago and it was stated the corruption system stops forced pvp. Well, my stance was it does not stop forced pvp because forced pvp does not exist in a pvx game. You sign up for pvp when you sign into the game. Thus, there should not be a disparity between pvp and pve players, just pvx players and no preferential treatment should be given to non conformists.
I think you are getting conversations mixed up, I'm not talking about general pvp I'm talking about corruption and its effects. in reducing pvp around it.
A conversation about the amount of pvp in the game is a different discussion.
I'm discussing corruption and the effect it has. No corruption on the ocean means pve players won't play. Therefore, a vain attempt to dissuade the pvp players elsewhere through over harsh punishments just won't fly. It won't stop anyone from killing a green because killing a green has reason behind it. It will stop massacres and people killing lower levels. However, green person hoarding resources - prime target. Green person taking my mobs - prime target. Green person training mobs into me - prime target.
Saying no corruption on ocean and no pve players will play is too much of a stretch to say that and using an extreme example like dygz does not make a lot of sense.
Again corruption has no link to the ocean in a disccusion around will corruption prevent someone from pking and then you are bringing up an entirely different system that does not effect what I'm talking about.
Even if someone is a prime target than your goal would be to making some kind of gain be it xp or items from mobs. The thing is people will always be "prime target" and you will lose more than gain from killing everyone farming mobs around you. Again yes you can get a potion of their drops but when you die being red you are dropping far more than you get on top of 4* xp debt. If the game as a population you are going to be seen by people and most likely killed unless you go deeper into corruption.
So if your goal is to gain xp / loot corruption is not going to be the best way at removing people without significant risk to losing more than what you got. Leading to relying on other pvp systems int he game over corruption (which means people will choose to not pk and wait to use the other system before killing someone)