Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
I understand a +5 to gear per lvl cap but 20 lvls later there +1,469 wtf?
I guess if you wine and come from WOW game, my game gets destroyed
And around 2008 new content ever 12 weeks was painful to want to even keep up with. Just to throw away ALL the fabled raid gear away for TRASH, no joke white common gear .
Plus only the top 10 guilds could clear that hole zone
But hey that new trash gear has a new stat mechanic they introduced to the new DLC... To painful
Very little
Bad, unnecessary & unpopular updates => game loses online because of that => boredom & losing sense of being in a crowd => quit
Somewhere beyond stage 2&3 they also usually introduce oppressive/game-ruining "cash shop" seeing their game dying, but not trying to save it - trying to save their profits by simply milking everyone who still remains for whatever reason...
Played the leader role (though I hated it tbh, too stressful), played the soldier role, played the spy role. Basically accomplished everything I wanted in that game. Lots of fun memories.
Then played ACE Online/Air Rivals for a long time, learned the game playing with 400MS in a European server (I'm from SA) then when an official SA server opened I became the top 1/2 player in that official server, fought while outnumbered 99% of the time, dueled basically anyone who wanted, made some tutorials, recorded myself beating pretty much everyone while being underleveled and undergeared and quit cause there was nothing more for me to do.
I bet you just named 98% of "at least of Everyone" who is aware.
There,
there is just no "sense" in being in an MMO which doesn't feel like an MMO. Unpopular Updates ruin first what EVERYONE LIKED -> and then, THEN it ruins what brought People together in the first place.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Guild is " Balderag's Garde " for now. (German)
The first thing that really started to annoy me was the inventory management/loot system. My first long break from the game was after I had played for hours and when I looked at all the drops I got, it just felt like a heap of thrash that it I didn't want to process anymore to get money out of it. Made worse by how many containers give you another container when you open them etc. The dozens of different currencies then can be used in so many different ways. It really sucks when you think you have found a good coversion for a currency into gold, only to realise a month later that some legendery you want to make has one part that you can only buy with that currency and suddenly you have to do a boring grind for several weeks. The 'collectibles' that's just running all over the maps to do nothing of imporantant, just working through a list becasue you want the skyscale mount. I'm a hero, not an accountant.
The second big thing that demotivated me was how appearances of the other players changed. The first couple of years, I felt like part of an army when we were doing open world content, but then that changed to a carnival parade. And sooo many parrticle effects on gear. I really dislike that. I'm always thinking about some bandits chilling in the forest until suddenly a christmas tree walks by them. Why on earth would anyone advertise their presance like that? It breaks my immersion. I also disliked the legendery greatswords that started to pop up everywhere. If anyone could swing around that much metal, they would be far better off with an axe or a hammer. A sword's job is to cut things. Making it half as broad as your body has no purpose whatsovever. And the back items. Hardly any of them would actually work with how frequently you roll over the floor to dodge.
The third reason was that Arenanet didn't deliver what they promised. The entire point of the living world was to make meaningful, lasting changes every two weeks. Which was great, but sooooo many people never gave it a change because Arenanet started that by building road signs and other meaningless things. Nobody cared that it was the "prelude" before the first chapter. The actually first chapter was awesome, but they had really shot themselves in the foot with that 'prelude'. They never got a perfect sollution for the living world. Season one was open world content, but then people got pissed that they couldn't see the content if they hadn't logged in, and it was gone forever. Season 2 became instances, which was nice again if you could play as they released. If you did them later, they are just story instances that you want to rush through to catch up. Overall Guild Wars 2 dynamic world is only predictable/farmable timers and instances.
The fourth thing was that Arenanet really started to use the gemstore to 'pay for convenience'. Extra bag, extra templates, permanent mining tool, ... That was my end game. Farm gold to buy for stuff so the game felt less like a hassle. But quitting makes it even less then a hassle.
It was also quitte dissapointing that 'Guild Wars' hardly had any content where your guild mattered at all. Except for levelling up the guild hall, there was nothing to do a s a guild.
EQ) this game was great I was playing when WoW came out and after a few months of hearing how great it was I tried WoW and it just felt hollow the only thing better was the combat so I went back to EQ and just about every random I talked to in game agreed that WoW was not even close... but WoW was popular and every xpac felt like it was just trying to copy wow and at some point I said if your just gonna dumb down everything copying WoW I'm just going to play that... so I did
Age of Wushu) I quit this for 2 reasons first is in order to fight bots they made it so that if you had a sub you can trade drops if you didn't they where bound to you well one month I wasn't able to afford the sub and nothing stacked instantly filled up all my bags with my mix of tradeable/bound items and felt like I couldn't play. The bigger reason is that the games combat was kinda rock paper scissors I played just about every single day for about a year I was one of the top pvp people on the server then I was challenged by a guy who used the same class and skills as me I opened him up and got 3-4 combos off and he was only down to 60% hp I messed up once dropped me down for 40% turns out he spent something like 15k and was so much stronger then me there wasn't much I could do...
Archage) The one I am most upset about I will split this in 2 P2W version and unchained.
P2W) I had be burned to many times by P2W so I honestly did even care about fighting in the game I spent my time farming and doing trade runs I was proud of my house and cart and loved growing stuff and driving the packs around even had some trains going with a guild with 20-30 people in long lines then they "reworked" trading and 100% killed running them like that and ruined the game for me.
unchained) I was actually able do the rest of the game now so I was having fun until... they made a change so that the best way to get gear was do the daily quests. so a sandbox game was now wait for 5pm spend 2 hours in a big zerg log off repeat nothing else mattered.
Pitfalls I sincerely hop ashes avoids
1) do what you think will make the game better not just what some other game made popular
2) have a hard stance on getting anything in game (gold, items, houses, ships, power) from outside sources
3) don't add any systems that make it hard to play, quit, or return. examples filling bags with stuff with no way to quickly stash or get rid of. if my bags and bank is full I feel like I cant join my friends and on the other side I have quit more the one PoE league logging in seeing I have no space and no energy to sort. iv also stopped myself from returning to Archage because I didn't play for a 3 months so I knew my house went into my mail and then was deleted after the 30 days and I had lost just about everything.
What you wrote is technically always true of course, but it is not always the reason why someone quits.
I for example quit because of depression with the current WoW for the reason of not seeing something in the game that I wanted since WoW Vanilla, (that being the official 'Highelf' race) or for example, knew that there is still stuff in the game files I want too badly but I can't get my fingers on it anymore, because it was a timelimited article.
( That would be the Black Qiraji battle tank. )
And I'm bad at accepting when I can't get what I want. So bad that I quit entire games over it which I would otherwise enjoy playing so much that I would normally never quit.
But when I see something in a game and especially see others having it while knowing it is out of my reach forever now, that is just a game-ender.
Why would I continue playing... just to get depressed on a regular basis?
If the game is also locked behind a subscription bar, something ASHES will be most probably... then it is curtains pretty quickly.
A slight offtopic
Otherwise I would quit over the 'Whailing Barnacle ship hull' for example, which I want badly, but cannot get anymore cuz I did not get it when it was still available.
Very foolish game design.
But the game is "lucky" it is free to play.
I feel SoT knows its place in that sense. It know it cannot poke its players too much.
Cause there is lots & lots of content in the game which enrages even its most passionate players on a daily basis when it comes to how the "high sea's" operate.
Of course we don't know and many would say; Nostalgia. They stay for nostalgia.
But I also say many are just pathetically addicted. And they are too lazy or cowardly to let go and seek for other games.
For example I never thought that one day I would fall in love as much as I did with a platformer this late in my life but what can I say(?); The Ori games found me. And I found them.
Game 1: https://store.steampowered.com/app/261570/Ori_and_the_Blind_Forest/
Game 2: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1057090/Ori_and_the_Will_of_the_Wisps/
Such a simple, beautiful story.
And the gameplay was pretty fun. That was most unexpected.
Because at this age in my life I thought I had "grown out" of these kind of games.
I can't put in words how glad I was that I let World of Warcraft go and looked for new shores to explore.
( solely because of the fact that Ashes is not out yet and i am also not doing some Alpha or Beta testing right now ^.^ ),
i can not truly say that i have quit WoW for good. But the Moment i do, will be for the following Reason.
Emptiness.
I am in an MMO with TONS of either silent or bored Players on my Server - and i had to actually "search" for People who don't go into their Basement to crack a Laugh and who are nice, happy and friendly to each other.
Not only were the last Expansions since BfA different kinds of Horror regarding Lore and Story -> they also quickly put you into Grinds - and Grinds bound to daily Worldquests.
It is repetitive.
Repetitive and empty-feeling. Sometimes stronger, sometimes weaker.
Plus my Friends don't really play anymore - and dear Dripyula stubbornly refuses to come back and drop by for different Reasons and a Hateboner for Blizzard.
I like the one Guild of happy People, but my closest Friends and Relatives do no longer visit Azeroth.
" War within " will be a cool Expansion i bet. But it will have the same Problems once again.
Ashes.
Ashes of Creation is the Reason.
The Moment it is out - i will sadly kiss the World of Azeroth Goodbye. If i will not die in Reallife before then.
Boredom is the only Reason i return to Azeroth from time to time. And the Moment Ashes pushes Boredom out of the Window like Jaime Lannister did to poor Bran - i have no longer a Reason to return.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Guild is " Balderag's Garde " for now. (German)
I very much agree with this if I can get everything in game I will spend 100 hours grinding for a single item to complete a collection but the very second I cant get everything I might still play the game but I wont care about anything I am not directly using or only log in to play with friends. honestly ashes is already on the line for the fomo stuff but I gave it a pass as its dev money for building out the world but if anything like that happens after launch it will drastically reduce my metal investment into the game.
I figured, for those that actually give a F, I might as well chime in here and share my exposure to 'quitting' MMO's that I have loved and sorta hated.
Of note, with regards to my MMO portfolio, I only play one MMO at a time. This is indicative of the commitment I have when it comes to gaming. So when I quit a good MMO, it comes with good reasons.
Dungeons and Dragons Online (DDO) 2007 - 2010
- stopped playing because instead of it remaining as a group-based-work-together dungeon adventuring game (as was intended from release and in honor of the Dungeons and Dragons traditional play style), it turned into a grind and eventually you had Paladins disarming traps and picking locks. Before that, it was the most fun I've ever had playing a game (and it still is, maybe even more than Diablo 2). Gygax would not have approved, even though he was already torn with video games and graphics-based gaming.
Age of Conan (AoC) 2011 - 2014
- the entire community just fell apart and the game perished. Most beautiful MMO I have ever played or seen. The combat mechanic; music; landscape; storyline; and graphics have yet to be beaten, in my opinion. Nothing has even come close. Even though DDO was the most fun, AoC is a big second place - but AoC is still far more immersive and beautiful all around. It still remains the biggest disappointment in my decades-long gaming career. I was gutted to witness AoC die.
World of Warcraft (WoW) 2016 - 2019 (+2023)
- no other MMO got my attention at this time so I decided to try WoW. Hated the graphics and the storyline just didn't do it for me. It still hasn't. I just quit because after three years of giving it a chance, I had to stop playing a game that I never liked in the first place. Tried it again in 2023 and it was even worse. Dragonflight however, was very cool and gave me something to sink my teeth into. Playing in groups was not enjoyable as everyone is clocking their DPS (including healers) and comparing it to everyone else in the group. It's not a game for people that just want to run with groups and have fun, unless you have your own 'regulars'. WoW seems to me to be nothing but a numbers game where internal competition within the group is more important than the game itself.
Elder Scrolls Online (ESO) 2020=2022
- stopped playing because I just got bored of it. It's a beautiful game with lots to do, but doing harder dungeon content requires running with a regular group, namely found in guilds (and as we all know, people in guilds only run with their regular 'friends' in the guild). Played PvP a lot in that game and it was a blast. I didn't really like the combat mechanic so that also played into my eventual departure. Finally, you cannot move characters to other servers. Relocating geographically has put me in a largely contrasting time-difference with the server that my characters are presently on. I'd probably still have continued playing if I could have moved my characters to another server.
I am confident with my outlook and opinion on MMO's based on my past experience of playing MMO's quite extensively. I have high hopes for Ashes of Creation and that's why I am here in the first place. At this point in my gaming experience, I am looking for a good / mature community; plenty of challenging diverse content; and great atmospheric music that could surpass that of Diablo 2 or Age of Conan. Good luck with that.
With bottles in their hands
You need one more drop of poison
And you'll dream of foreign lands
I loved the game world, the crafting, the collections, the muiltiple progression paths withinin each class, the gathering, all of it.
However the older style, unresponsive combat was hard to go back to. I even tried it last month, and no matter how much I love the Fury class, it just felt too static.
SWTOR and WoW - I lump these together because they share the same issue. They are mind numbingly easy. They were not that way at the start. I mean they were never crazy hard, but as the years went on they just became more and more pathetically solo friendly.
GW2 - Loved the horizontal progression and the classes were unique and fun. The combat was a bit too floaty but still enjoyable. What drove me away was the total lack of any challenge and the time gating of items. Plenty of things were locked behind time gates and daily logins. Being forced to login every day made the game feel like a job.
EVE - It takes too damn long to do anything. I'm forced to set up franchises all over the Galaxy. If I dont have equipment ready to go near a location I'm interested in, I have spend a day or two either moving things over or purchasing new stuff. The only way to avoid that is to settle in where you are and don't travel too far. Not fun. They also stopped adding major content to the game a decade ago (And no, new story loops are not game content. We want things, toys and enemies). Although, to their credit, they do seem to be picking up the pace for content lately.
I do. ^.^
So You witnessed same like some of us how a Game died which you actually really liked if not loved with all of your VideoGamer Heart.
This sucks a lot. This is the one good Reason never to forgive Developers and Companies who do shitty Decisions and then they ruin the Games they have the Copyrights from.
To this very Moment,
the WoW-Community is now as ever since WoW-Cataclysm and even before -> the MMO with the MOST. TOXIC. COMMUNITY. i have ever witnessed in the VideoGame Universe.
When You are lucky enough to find People who are always nice and friendly and play for Fun, you might as well witness also constantly People on the same Server trying to mock their Guild as something they hate for "some" Reason. But the Hater-Players can str~aaangely never say why.
There is a silent Perma-Competition Spirit going on -> which manifests in the most toxic ways (lol) but usually is never spoken out loud.
-> If some People get something "EASIER" than others did Years before -> the butthurt is MAAAAASSIVE and reaches up towards the Stars like an Eldritch Deity.
WHILE AT THE SAME TIME -> nobody knows the People most affected by the butthurt. They are usually NEVER social People and nobody ever remembers to having had a good time with them.
Do You know with what Topic i can make People in the WoW-Forums "IMMEDIATELY" hiss and foam with Toxicity and Hatred these very Days - when i mention it ?
Easy Answer. -> 😁 Ashes of Creation. 😁
The immediate "MOCKING", "gloating" and "Scoffing" show me a H~UUUGE, salt-filled butthurt. These People know in a few Years they might feel very, veeery dumb.
Very dumb for being Perma-Junkies with +550 Mounts or so, to a Company which doesn't give a crap about them and the Game they are addicted to.
Very dumb because right now and already -> Sir Steven and his mighty Crew have shown more Love for Ashes of Creation than Activision Lizzard did in about the full Two Decades.
Instead of cynical, toxic Developer-Statements when addressing the Fanbase and Community -> there is always a positive, friendly and respectful Tone and Atmosphere from Sir Steven and the Developers.
Plus not only does Ashes even in it's unfinished State look vastly superior towards WoW -> it will have a superior Engine that will easily perform and display Feats ingame where WoW in Comparison already borders on having Connection Issues.
Ashes of Creation ? You will be amazed by the sheer Amount of SALT and Hate in the Forums of WoW, if you dare to mention it - and that the Alpha Two is drawing nearer and nearer and that WoW will get a decent Rival soon in a few Years - which "WILL" without fail take People away from WoW. 😁
WoW was never dead. The Community is what is dead inside.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Guild is " Balderag's Garde " for now. (German)
He'h I thought the same about those cosmetic packs from which I also did not knew they exist.
Thanks god there was really nothing among them which I actually wanted that much and it is also one of these financial "funding" excuses for the game.
I bought V Rising in 2022... and officially it will only launch in about half a month from now.
Say what the game felt "finished" already when I played it and I had such a good time and got more out of it than many so called "Tripple AAA" titles that release today.
Not that I even play those.
I just watch them when others play them and know I would be bored to death playing these myself.
But all these so called "pre-order" things for Ashes? BIIIIIIG mistake to have them timelimited too.
They should be alltimers as optional ways to support the game that one plays and loves.
No timelimit, no regrets, no wierd gloating smugness over those that do not have it.
And hopefully a good community that is not going into toxic overdrive due to whatever reasons I can't forsee.
Ashes had cosmetic packs that they removed?
And one of them had this spooky, little guy.
: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Decaying_Thrall
Imagine that. Getting such a cool, undead (Battle?)Pet only when You Pre-Order like +6 to +8 Years before the Game would ever come out.
When Ashes succeeds nicely until Release with all that the Developers want to manage -> and i am confident they will succeed -> then Ashes will immediately be one of the best MMO's out there, if not the best.
But a few of the "Contents" inside the Game will either be owned by Nobody, or probably Friends or Relatives of People who Pre-Ordered Stuff and then died before the Game released.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Guild is " Balderag's Garde " for now. (German)
Since then i was kinda a group player and i always wanted to play with friends/groups /premades so most of my quiting were cuz of that.
List of games : Aika, Revelation, Blade and soul, Lost ark thats pretty much the most played ones.
played both final fantasy MMOs for a long time, 11 I quit after the level cap increse turning it into a solo game with NPCs. 14 I quit because calling it cookie cutter would be an understatement. Not only did the dungeons follow the same formula for every expansion, it was the same thing for the gear progression. I played crit build on my healer and every expansion my crit legs came from whatever they released as a 24 man and the same thing for all the other gear slots. they also nerfed my job for the dumbest reasons too.
kept giving new world a chance, devs spent way to much time testing useless mechanics instead of just making content, OPR is the main game mode for PvP but it's really the only one, unless you want to guild up and get involved in wars. they didn't do much for PvP in a game that's supposed to be PvP oriented. then they thought pandering to the people who cry out for more fast travel and mounts would help the game but it just made things worse.
any others I would get bored of before hitting level cap
I'm really glad they've outlined an extremely aggressive measure against botting and RTM transactions in this game.
I'm looking forward to support this game into being a massive success, and I hope they have plans to make sure it can reach a broader audience once it launches.
100% agree on that. This is the Plan.
Ashes needs to grow big and strong. "Certain MMO's" need a good Rival. Especially the most greedy MMO of all Time with the most horrible last Three Expansions that were ever pooped out by bad Writers and which has the most atrocious Dropchances of all "western MMO's".
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Guild is " Balderag's Garde " for now. (German)
Allow me to explain, we both played Classic-Wrath and both agree that Cata is where the game started to fall off, even if it isn't necessarily when we quit. I was in a very well ranked PvE guild and she was a top PvP player for our respective servers. We were discussing how the whole vibe of the game changed when the developers started implementing the infinite grinds, and the infinite grinds just never scratched the same itch as farming out for a legendary weapon, or finishing a reputation grind to get a cool cosmetic or mount, or even just finishing all of the quests in a zone. It felt good when, through your grinding, you were still able to accomplish things. But somewhere along the way the "We need %100 subscriber retention. Our players always need to have a grind, always." ruined the fun that existed in some of the harder grinds and just made all of the dumb every day grinds way way harder to swallow because there were suddenly a ton more of them. In addition to the grinds for rep and levels and whatever AP the new expansion had they changed it so you basically never naturally finished all of the quests in a zone. Don't get me wrong I love to have some hidden questlines and some really hard as nails treasure hunts, they're fun! But I hate the daily quest/world quest system that ensures that every single day, you have to repeat quests you've already done in order to get something towards your grind.
We think an MMO shouldn't shy away from letting you complete a Biome/Zone/quest and feel the accomplishment of never having to do it again! If areas like your endgame PvP/PvE/Crafting are engaging enough then you shouldn't need to force a daily grind on top of that just to remain relevant. Let a finished thing be finished. Then let them be changed by dynamic world events. That's something we so look forward to with AoC and can't wait to play it for! And once you've completed the legendary so and so, it is okay to have some downtime where you can RP, help out guildies/lower level players, try a new part of the endgame you don't normally play, etc. It encourages players to engage with the world when they have to 'find something to do' and if sub numbers dip for a couple months before new content drops that should be encouraged.
Anyways, got a bit off topic. Hope this gives the devs some perspective.
Professional Skeptic, Entertainer, and Animal Enthusiast
If you two love MMORPG's very much, i think you are most likely already married when Ashes comes out.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Guild is " Balderag's Garde " for now. (German)
Regarding that "Thrall". Ultimately this does not mean this guy won't come back later somewhere else.
It is just the usual "it won't come back syndrom" in my mind that whispers in my ear like a gleeful, taunting little devil on my shoulder.
Now I do not want to buy THIS thing!
But someone else might. And I think they should always be able to buy it.
No matter when.
EQ2 - guild decided to go to vanguard.
Vanguard - got bored.
Age of Conan - no endgame, game unfinished.
Warhammer - Guild lost interest in the game.
Rift - Game went ftp so moved to Wildstar.
Wildstar - couldn’t recruit people to fill raids so quit.
Wow - found it boring.
ESO - Group PvP got stale and didn’t like the GM.
Keep in mind- by actual law, a publically traded company serves a single purpose; making money for it's shareholders.
Every action a publically traded company does needs to facilitate that singular purpose. That means that a publically traded company with the option of making a crap product for 10 dollars and selling it for 20, or making the same number of a great product for 11 dollars and selling it for 20 is legally obliged to make the crappy product (situations are never this simple, but the point is valid).
It isn't necessarily greed when you are doing something that is required by law.
That said, if a game is making more money after a change, that presumably means more people think the game is worth playing with that change than without it. Logically, this means the issue isn't the change, it is you. If this kind of thing happens to you often, then you are an outlier who wants things from a game that the bulk of people do not, and so you will never have that game you want.
I play tibia since 2002 (7 years old).
In between i have been playing others mmos like tales of pirates, asda story, metin, metin2, mu, cabal, bit of ragnarok and bit of dofus,until level 10 wow in 2017, bit of bdo, archage, lineage, perfect world, priston tale and many others mmos and other games in between which were not mmos like the duel (gunz), point blank, league of legends, h1z1, counter strike, combat arms, lunia, grand chase, etc.
And the thing is... i never left tibia because was the one and only mmorpg which gave me freedom to somewhat be what i want and not abide to nobody rules or game system rules and such freedom is very lacking in many mmos i played specially my newest one being new world which i hyped alot in the beginning.
So whilst newer version of tibia i am not really fond of... i really play mostly tibia from versions 7.4 until 8.6 at best.
And like i explained... tibia offered a vast freedom and sandbox-ish game style which no other game ever offered to me in those times (would dare say even nowadays).
Full open world with almost none instancing (there was only one introduced in version 8.0 to a quest which when you came back you could get trapped and killed eitherway).
little to none safe zones then cities depot (for safe trading between players) and houses.
and a full open world pvp, where unexpected pvp is always near you if you are naive enough to see people and not be in alert. It was a very interesting thing, always having something unexpected to happen.
And to be honest... only reason i am on ashes of creation... is because it is basically a 3d version of tibia with many others nice features... and ashes is pratically bringing that for me, hopefully the full open world pvp enabled in ashes won't get taken back down it is what i am mostly hoping for... for the rest of the systems and feautures they are all cool, I just feel they would be even better if pvp is to be enabled world wide with harsh punishment for abusers BUT with interesting outplays and gameplays to those who really like to get ganked and somehow get out alive and let their name spread for such wholesome open world unexpected pvp skills in the annals of your server history.
Or also those who like to infiltrate a raid and ruin it, just because of the thrill of how disadvantageous it is to do so, but if you succeed it will make you feel wholesome and spread on the annals of your server history. And all that is possible in tibia.
Dragon Nest is probably my favorite MMORPG combat wise of all time. Quit at patch 32 because I couldn't be bothered going through the tedious leveling grind when arena was quickly dying because Nexon's servers were terrible. Game relied on juggling and the constant desync issues made it impossible to maintain a combo and you would deal with the rng of having an attack not register so you just lose openings.
c9 was really fun for the short time I played it, but I unfortunately I started playing it too late and the game was already dead. Combat was probably my second favorite behind DN and honestly if I got to play the later classes it might even be better than DN even comparing DN's later classes from the videos I've seen of both.
Fiesta Online is the first MMO I got into not counting OSRS and it honestly kickstarted my entire online gaming journey. I don't even remember why exactly I quit, but the game was pretty expensive to play. You had to buy a monthly potion that gave you more hp/mana to even be competitive and then the item sets I believe gave you bonuses like crit% that were necessary to be competitive as well. Game probably died out from being so expensive. Still had a ton of fun though.