Players should go all out with griefing in the alpha 2

I still think that anti-griefing systems are too optimistic. Here is my own hypothesis that I have based on PVP and PVX games I have played;

I think players will log out to avoid the bounty system and grind out their corruption during low pop hours.
I think that open world bosses will be to easy to grief.
I think the corruption debuff is will be easy to mitigate with a group of players targeting solo or duo players.

I'm not anti PVP, but there is a difference between what is intended and a never ending gankfest.
I think that during the alpha 2 players should try to exploit these systems to draw attention to any of these or other problems that might come up.
Best case scenario is I'm full of shit and everything is fine, second best is intrepid finds a problem and fixes it.
But I think we would all hate to see this game launch in a 24/7 Escape from Tarkov state when all you want to do is get a quest done.
PVP should have purpose but I think players have a tendency to make it purposeless. I see player, I kill player.

Food for thought.

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Tyranthraxus

No, they shouldn't.

daveywavey

We should go all out with everything. This is where we can help Intrepid fine-tune it all.

unknown

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Tetterian

I've always avoided games with an open-world PvP feature but for Ashes, I'm somehow optimistic that it will find a balance between ganking necessary targets and running past players. I can't put a finger on it, perhaps it's just wishful thinking...

However, I recently watched a YouTube video by Lucky Ghost titled The single biggest problem Ashes of Creation faces and later watched Asmongold's reaction to the same video.
The original video has some great points about what Ashes may face and with Asmongold's take, I think it's worth watching.
So to respond to the topic, I think it's important to show Intrepid how players will find ways to grief without penalty or unintended flagging in A2.

Dripyula

Vissox wrote: »

PVP should have purpose but I think players have a tendency to make it purposeless. I see player, I kill player.
Food for thought.

Can confirm this is how it felt for me in pretty much all games in which PvP was a thing. People will try to kill you just because they can, even if you do not have any loot with you or any reward for the victor.
Simply because they get off on the thought to make someone else angry.

One attempt which I liked back in WoW was to bring buffs to the table. For example in the Eastern Plaguelands I think there were about 4 or 5 towers stationed.
The more towers your side held the more percentages of a zone buff you would recieve.
Now this buff was utterly useless garbage

that no one needed because it was absolutely insignificant and its full value was everything to sneeze at.
Something about 15% more damage against PvE or something.
It was so underwhelming that I cannot even bother to remember what it did as you can see.

World PvP could be very meaningful if it is tied to powerful buffs handed out by holding certain locations for your guild or whatever we will see, regarding factions in the game.
Something worth fighting over. And then I do not want to see alibi advantages that are not truly noticable.
I want to see HUGE benefits like
+ 50% more damage against PvE in the same zone
+ 30% more mounted speed in the same zone
+ 25% more drops found in the bodies of foe's and wildlife

Stuff like that. Positions like towers and the like could be taken simply by lowering the flag of a guild for example and hoisting your own. Upon which a message will pop up.
" This will flag you for faction PvP. Players of the opposing faction will not accumulate corruption should they slay you during the territorial conflict, even if you do not fight back. "

Blip

I don't mean to be a jerk here, but it sounds like you want to find a reason to change a system you don't like.

There will always be shades of gray, but if a group does X, it doesn't mean I suddenly need to do Z.

Usually PvE players are the ones that complain the loudest, and I have seen so many MMOs ruined because of it.

I hope Intrepid stands true and doesn't give in to loud screaming about being ganked on.

It will happen, if you invade grind spot or something 😅.

Dygz

Steven will temp turn off PvP, like he did during Alpha 1, if the griefing is too bad at some point and interfering with other testing goals.

Kilion

"I think players will log out to avoid the bounty system and grind out their corruption during low pop hours."
But for that to be the case, players need to have the time to do so, must be willing to wait until then & will be able to easily and swiftly decrease their corruption. So I get the concern, however I don't agree with the underlying exploit assumption at all.

"I think that open world bosses will be to easy to grief."
Eh... okay?

"I think the corruption debuff is will be easy to mitigate with a group of players targeting solo or duo players."
Okay?

"I think that during the alpha 2 players should try to exploit these systems to..." [bla bla bla]

100% YES. We should try and find the exploits if there are any. Again, not sharing any of the held ideas that these are already built in problems. At best, these are risks that exist if the systems are not implemented and balanced properly.

"But I think we would all hate to see this game launch in a 24/7 Escape from Tarkov state when all you want to do is get a quest done. PVP should have purpose but I think players have a tendency to make it purposeless. I see player, I kill player."

A lot of criticism I have seen throughout my time on this forum and the subreddit is brought forth in a manner where people seem to expect the same type of people who play quick and fast games with lower price tags to come over and "grief Ashes into the ground". I don't think that this will be the case at all. Progress in Ashes will be much slower and impactful than most of the games recited for grief fest behavior.

blat

I assume there are some people out there who are testing for PvPers too?

Plenty of talk about griefing, unintended flagging etc. What about unintended corruption, and janky mechanics getting in the way of consensual PvP?

Here's a mad thought; it doesn't always have to be one side Vs the other.
Sometimes mechanics can work to benefit both/all preferences, at the very least that should be the aim.

Aszkalon

Vissox wrote: »

I still think that anti-griefing systems are too optimistic.

But how much do we know for Realsies, actually ?

We only know that when someone "MURDERS" someone else who doesn't fight back -> Corruption comes knocking at the Killers' Door.

When said Killer dies while being corrupted, he or she can lose a Piece of Gear that this Player might has worked for, for several WEEKS or so, to finally get what he or she wanted.

This sounds like a significant risk for murder-hobo'ing through the World.

Vissox wrote: »

I think players will log out to avoid the bounty system and grind out their corruption during low pop hours.

Am i understanding this right ?

A Person kills a few People - and when Corruption hits an the own Character is more vulnerable and weaker, the Person logs out "EVERYTIME" - and comes online only like during Night-Hours so that there are less Players online who could hunt him down and put his Character to Justice ?

Like EVERY - SINGLE - TIME - the ingame-Murderer slaughters a few Players who don't fight back ??

This sounds unbelievable time-consuming and laborious only for murder a few "Green Players".

Vissox wrote: »

I think that open world bosses will be to easy to grief.
I think the corruption debuff is will be easy to mitigate with a group of players targeting solo or duo players.

Hopefully you don't forget that " Buddies in Murder-Hobo Groups " (lol) could just murder their corrupted Members to faster cut down their Corruption Time again,

and give "killed Corrupted Friends" their lost Items back in Case they dropped some important Gear-Pieces. That of Course being the Case "IF" the System allows it and does not intentionally block the Possibility of a killed corrupted Player to get his/her Piece/s of Gear back from Someone else. (heheheh

)

Vissox wrote: »

I'm not anti PVP, but

B~uuut ?

Vissox wrote: »

but there is a difference between what is intended and a never ending gankfest.

I think our sexy Bountyhunters (which i hope there will be many around) will take Care of this Griefer-Problem perhaps and probably SO. FAST., that you might think this Topic here was completely unfounded and your Concerns and Worries not so justified after all.

Also i think it would add greatly to the Content. Yummy yummy hunting more intelligent "Killers" than just your average NPC Mobs that might pop up here and there.

Vissox wrote: »

Best case scenario is I'm full of shit and everything is fine

Can happen to any of us here. With some People probably more than others.

from time to time there also come Questions up in Topics which are already kinda taken care of by the Developers and Game Mechanics since a few Years or so.

I am confident the Game will be just right when the Release and Launch comes knocking. You can also be confident the Weight or Lightness of Punishments for murder-hobo'ing helpless and/or purely PvE-interested Players will probably be adjusted even after Release.

Would be awesome if " Corruption " is not Problem at all for someone who does it only very rarely - and absolute HELL of Risk for those who plan to make Playerkilling a daily Part of their Routine.

DeadlyDave

We will have to see what happens in Alpha 2.
The map is massive, should be some where safe to level up.
I'm just going to join a half decent guild and hope for the best.
Hopefully we won't be calling this Ashes of Gankers

Xeeg

This is just common sense to me. We should try and break the systems in Alpha 2, because if we don't do it then, people will do it when it goes live.

When the corruption system works as intended it can't be a gankbox, that's the whole point.

Ludullu

Yes, when Intrepid tells us "we wanna test the pvp system" - we test it. Just as we will test all the other things when we're asked to test them.

Nerror

With nothing to lose because of wipes, players will probably gank more in A2 than at release. That's good. In fact, Intrepid might as well force-flag everyone a day or two before a wipe.

I am going to test how easy it is to spot Empyreans from a distance, so I can focus on ganking them, and provide feedback that makes it easier to spot the knife-ears at release.

Unless I make an Empyrean character, then the Niküa are gonna get it. Those stunties are easy to spot

Edit: No one should be griefing in the sense of the word that they cause other testers anguish. That's gonna be against the TOS in A2 as well. Work together to find exploits though.

Vissox

Dygz wrote: »

Steven will temp turn off PvP, like he did during Alpha 1, if the griefing is too bad at some point and interfering with other testing goals.

That is unfortunate because I think if it's a problem in alpha it will be a problem at launch. The whole point of an alpha is to let players try to destroy the game so that those issues can be fixed, not swept under the rug.

Vissox

"But I think we would all hate to see this game launch in a 24/7 Escape from Tarkov state when all you want to do is get a quest done. PVP should have purpose but I think players have a tendency to make it purposeless. I see player, I kill player."

A lot of criticism I have seen throughout my time on this forum and the subreddit is brought forth in a manner where people seem to expect the same type of people who play quick and fast games with lower price tags to come over and "grief Ashes into the ground". I don't think that this will be the case at all. Progress in Ashes will be much slower and impactful than most of the games recited for grief fest behavior.

People play all kinds of games, there are all kinds of players. It's stupid to just count on one group of players not showing up and designing systems that are ignorant of what anyone would try to do. You might not think that those players would not be interested in ashes, but you don't and can't know.

Vissox

Aszkalon wrote: »

Vissox wrote: »

Vissox wrote: »

I think players will log out to avoid the bounty system and grind out their corruption during low pop hours.

Am i understanding this right ?

A Person kills a few People - and when Corruption hits an the own Character is more vulnerable and weaker, the Person logs out "EVERYTIME" - and comes online only like during Night-Hours so that there are less Players online who could hunt him down and put his Character to Justice ?

Like EVERY - SINGLE - TIME - the ingame-Murderer slaughters a few Players who don't fight back ??

This sounds unbelievable time-consuming and laborious only for murder a few "Green Players".

Vissox wrote: »

I'm not anti PVP, but

B~uuut ?

Not digging your aggressive tone buddy.

So you've never met people that spend their lives in MMORPGs? Cute.

You're also forgetting that people can have more than one character. Get corrupted on an alt, swap to a main and grind out the corruption later. Just because YOU don't think it's a worthwhile use of your time does not mean that others will feel the same way. Any system that can be exploited SHOULD BE TESTED IN ALPHA 2 . That's all my post was about essentially, I'm not trying to predict the future, I'm giving a call to action.

I also don't appreciate you cutting 5 words out of a complete thought and then trying to fight me with an 1/8th of a quote taken out of context. Pretty cringe.

Azherae

In my limited experience with the time that PvP was actually on in Alpha-1 (before the ending tests, I mean at the beginning) it actually wasn't so bad. People were enjoying it, and some people got hit accidentally when passing by.

Then someone figured out that you weren't 'immune to PvP while talking to NPCs', a few specific individuals spread this news, and it turned into a bloodbath.

Big 2b2t energy.

I expect that we'll be allowed to spread out for a day or two before PvP is enabled, for most Alpha-2 test restarts, based on the previous outcome.

I'd be happier if people moreso kept 'griefing journals' for Intrepid, or if they had some built in system for it. i.e. even if you don't actually attack, have a button or something that lets the target know 'I'd have attacked you'. And then they could respond 'I'd have fought back' or 'I'd have let you kill me' or whatever.

For those periods where PvP 'needs' to be turned off, that is.

blat

Azherae wrote: »

I'd be happier if people moreso kept 'griefing journals' for Intrepid, or if they had some built in system for it.

Made me think of how many times we use phrases like griefing, ganking, PKing etc, probably each with our own subtly different definitions.

Azherae

blat wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

I'd be happier if people moreso kept 'griefing journals' for Intrepid, or if they had some built in system for it.

Made me think of how many times we use phrases like griefing, ganking, PKing etc, probably each with our own subtly different definitions.

Yeah, even more reason for it. I don't know if they'd get good data from everyone, but I'm sure there are some players that would take the chance to 'complain' to Intrepid's data collector:
"I would have killed this person if not for [This Reason]."

Possibly useful.

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