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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
my bad bae, ill read your mind next time
I guess you also didn't mean countering laziness.
And in case of countering laziness it's both a direct quote and an ironic coloring to the quote. But I wouldn't expect people to properly see that ironic coloring in text, so in this case reading it as just a direct quote would be fine.
But the "tutorial" part was something I brought up myself as a replacement for my initial post in this thread, instead of reposting that entire comment.
And I know that my commenting style can be real weird/hard to parse in the way I'd prefer it to be parsed, but that's due to me following Poe's Law when posting. This video explains it the best
back to reading your mind. its easier ;3
I dont think there is any adventure in knowing everything before you have to choose
It's was I wanted to suggest and something has been suggested by someone (RO player) few days ago in another topic.
A solid, interesting, relatively difficult and long quest to learn about second archetypes in game would be ideal. Quests could start at the same place with NPCs about each archetypes.
It's also possible for players to tutor this in-game.
Ashes has a mentor-ship mechanic which fits well with that kind of in-game interaction.
I see no damn point why they couldn't do that.
Yes, sociable people who are ready to get rejected by a ton of people before receiving their information will be able to find the people who'll be willing to answer there questions.
But there'll be a shitton of people who are neither sociable, nor would they even want to attempt to socialize before properly learning the game. And one of the reasons for that is exactly due to the culture of "you can just go look that up, why are you asking me".
Maybe once you're level 25, you can go to a teacher who will tell you that you've learned everything you can from him, but he knows some masters he can link you up with. You get to decide what sub-archetype/class you want, and he sends you to the corresponding master where you do a class-themed quest that introduces you to the class. At the end, you can decide if you want to pick that class or go grab a class quest for another class to see what that class is like.
Having quests associated with some abilities would be cool too.
In my opinion, these class quests should be more theme/lore-based and not super hardcore quests, but, for example, the quest for the ultimate skill can be harder.
And has nothing to do with laziness and everything to do with typical RPG design.
Because games have rules. Sometimes players don't like all the rules.
You should be glad that "subclass" can be changed. Which is already atypical for RPGs.
All kinds of ways to find information in-game and out-of-game - besides having Quests to teach about "subclasses" before a "subclass" is chosen.
Tell me you don't really like RPGs without telling me you don't really like RPGs.
This is a legit and solid Point, Yes.
I liked that in WoW, with the many Books lying around. But i might add here, Blizzard does a very shitty Job of bringing the "Lore" of Characters and BETWEEN Expansions over to the Players.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
I'm sure there will be some sort of tutorial or n game info about what can you expect from your 2nd archetype. i just don't think we will have all the specific augments and effects. you will get those by experimenting or going to a website.
i know I'm going cleric/cleric for life ;3
All the info will be there in order for people to make an informed choice. If they choose not to use that info, then that's on them.
I guess it comes down to how much you want progression to be time-gated, and how much you want it to be reliant on player strategy and skill. I don't want pointless time-gates just for the sake of it. I think time investment should be about skill, strategy, and mastery, rather than arbitrary time sinks to progress.
Just as you don't need a Quest to decide on Race or Primary Archetype.
Has nothing to do with time-gates.
I dunno why anyone expects choosing Secondary Archetype will be significantly different - especially since it's a choice that can be changed later.
I don't expect Race descriptions and Primary Archetype descriptions will be "detailed".
It's never going to be as much detail as possible.
I've seen this class boundary line idea implemented across many MMOs over the past 30 years and every version, in my opinion, has done serious damage to the game that is hard to undo. I know people want access to more, m o r e, MORE!!! But the reality is that making hybrid classes makes each class role less important. Sure, it opens gateways to playability for when there aren't enough tanks or healers to go around but there are other ways around that.
I think that crossing class boundaries is a surefire way to downgrade the quality of the game. Keep class continuity and role separation intact, please! You don't need to be a dual wielding warrior-mage. Wouldn't that technically just be a class that already exists in most fantasy anyway? If you're going to do that then just incorporate the class as it's own entity and build it's limitations into the game so it actually works instead of allowing one character to fit into every hole.
Very seriously hope this gets filtered out in testing. It is such a quick way to ruin class dynamics. A warrior/healer is just a Paladin. A mage/rogue is just an assassin. A healer/mage is a priest. Make the class or don't, IMO.
Albeit rare, I do agree with you here Nikr. 100%. This would be great to implement.
I like steven's view on this subject but I think they could implement what your idea. This would make it interesting and at the same time learning about your Archtype and class.
Tell me you don't really like playing RPGs without telling me you don't really like playing RPGs.
You're basically saying you want to play soccer but you don't like the restrictions against using your hands to move the ball across the field.
You like rugby but you want to be able to wear a helmet, shoulder pads and kneepads.
You like baseball, but you want the ball to be about twice the size and softer.
In Ashes, a Tank/Cleric is not just a Paladin.
A Tank/Cleric is primarily a Tank but can do some Cleric stuff also.
A Mage/Rogue is primarily a Mage but can do some Rogue stuff also.
A Cleric/Mage is primarily a Mage but can do some Rogue stuff also.
This design doesn't ruin class dynamics because the Augments from Secondary Archetype are applied on top of the Primary Archetype Active Skills. So you're really always playing your Primary Archetype.
Choosing Race and Primary Archetype are not time-gated.
Choosing Secondary Archetype is time-gated because you have to reach Level 25 first.
Other than that, you learn more about your Race and Class... your Role... through experience.
That's kinda the whole entire point of xp. And the Hero's Journey.
Yes I am fine with mastering the class through experience playing, I am talking in terms of deciding whether it is something I would want to spend time mastering, which means I would not like having to wait 25 levels to find out the details of how a secondary archetype would play, as opposed to knowing from the start to determine whether I would want to grind 25 levels to unlock it and play it.
Same things goes for the primary archetype, I want to know everything about it before selecting it, its just even worse with the secondary because not only do you have to grind to level 25 to unlock it, but then you might have to play it for multiple levels to find out what it can really do. I want to have all the info ahead of time to be able to make an informed decision of whether it would be a class I would like to invest effort into mastering. I think that is a more strategic/skillful proposition than a time-gated approach of gathering info, unless that acquisition of knowledge was designed to be more interesting than just trial and error data collection.