Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
So apparently it is already starting ... ... ? ... ... (Companies whining and bitching about Ashes)
Aszkalon
Member, Alpha Two
I am aware that like basically Everybody else, i too am just a relatively unimportant little Light in this amazing Forum. So i won't blame Anyone who forgot about all the Moments when i commented and posted between January 2024 and the last Weeks,
- > that Companies " SURE WILL " whine and bitch and nag and talk Trash about Ashes of Creation,
-> when they ALREADY DID IT - WITH BALDURS GATE THREE !!!
Who else got Wind back then in 2023, that whole Companies got all salty and pissy FAST,
saying Baldurs Gate Three is "an Anomaly" - around the Time of Baldurs Gate Three's Release ?
That the Game is SO unnatural, basically a " Freak " among VideoGames,
so that People should NOT expect now such Passion and Competence to make a good Game - to become "the Standard" ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGgs6JeLCqU
O rly ???
Companies hate Sir Steven ?
All pretty much ALL of Intredid's dear, mighty Crew alongside him - who are working now since YYEEAARRSS to make a good Game, without giving up ? Awwwwww, i am going to play the World's tiniest Violin now for these poor, poor, "SHITTY" Companies - who are afraid of People actually giving their all - and "loving" the Fantasy Universe of the VideoGame they want to create. 
I MADE A PICTURE OF THIS, in the Meme-Topic of this Forum !!
And on April 16th i did load it up there !! x'D
And i DON'T EVEN NEED an awesome Ability like some Fortuneteller to be able to actually glance into the Future and predict a more or less accurate description of what may come to pass.
Because Companies ALREADY DID THIS ONCE - with Larian Studios !!
They WHINED AND BITCHED about a Game apparently not being up to the VideoGame Standart,
while in Truth this " WAS - THE - STANDART " - between at least around 2003 up until 2015.
These obstinate, lazy, incompetent Companies should just quit.
People don't want to play bad VideoGames. NOT EVEN as a free to play model !!
People want THIS !!
People want what Ashes is about to become. And BOOOIIII i can't wait to have my Revenge as i will deliciously sip on a fine Wine or whatever, while enjoying Intrepid's Success and Entrance into a glorious Age of Ashes of Creation for Years to come,
while other Companies were to lazy, undecided - and COWARDLY - to invest Time, Money - and Effort, into giving the MMO VideoGamers an awesome MMO that they love to play.
. .
Ahhh.
the butthurt is already making it's way here. * sn~iiiff * - and it smells like Victory.
I think the next Months are going to be aaaabsolutely delicious. Especially after Alpha Two has started.
Let the BUTTHURT - begin !!!
- > that Companies " SURE WILL " whine and bitch and nag and talk Trash about Ashes of Creation,
-> when they ALREADY DID IT - WITH BALDURS GATE THREE !!!
Who else got Wind back then in 2023, that whole Companies got all salty and pissy FAST,
saying Baldurs Gate Three is "an Anomaly" - around the Time of Baldurs Gate Three's Release ?
That the Game is SO unnatural, basically a " Freak " among VideoGames,
so that People should NOT expect now such Passion and Competence to make a good Game - to become "the Standard" ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGgs6JeLCqUO rly ???
Companies hate Sir Steven ?
All pretty much ALL of Intredid's dear, mighty Crew alongside him - who are working now since YYEEAARRSS to make a good Game, without giving up ?
Awwwwww, i am going to play the World's tiniest Violin now for these poor, poor, "SHITTY" Companies - who are afraid of People actually giving their all - and "loving" the Fantasy Universe of the VideoGame they want to create. I MADE A PICTURE OF THIS, in the Meme-Topic of this Forum !!
And on April 16th i did load it up there !! x'D
And i DON'T EVEN NEED an awesome Ability like some Fortuneteller to be able to actually glance into the Future and predict a more or less accurate description of what may come to pass.
Because Companies ALREADY DID THIS ONCE - with Larian Studios !!
They WHINED AND BITCHED about a Game apparently not being up to the VideoGame Standart,
while in Truth this " WAS - THE - STANDART " - between at least around 2003 up until 2015.
These obstinate, lazy, incompetent Companies should just quit.
People don't want to play bad VideoGames. NOT EVEN as a free to play model !!
People want THIS !!
People want what Ashes is about to become. And BOOOIIII i can't wait to have my Revenge as i will deliciously sip on a fine Wine or whatever, while enjoying Intrepid's Success and Entrance into a glorious Age of Ashes of Creation for Years to come,
while other Companies were to lazy, undecided - and COWARDLY - to invest Time, Money - and Effort, into giving the MMO VideoGamers an awesome MMO that they love to play.
. . Ahhh.
the butthurt is already making it's way here. * sn~iiiff * - and it smells like Victory. I think the next Months are going to be aaaabsolutely delicious. Especially after Alpha Two has started.
Let the BUTTHURT - begin !!!
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Currently no guild !! (o_o)
3
Comments
The comments made that are discussed in the OP were not from those companies, they were from employees within those companies.
There is a difference - no one on these forums is attributing your comments to the place you work - they are your comments.
The problem is, those comments also had perfect validity behind them.
EA, Activsion and other large companies are simply not capable of producing a game like Baulders Gate 3. Not because they don't have the technical ability, but because these large companies are simply not geared up to create them. It is like expecting a 3 michelin star meal from a McDonalds - that is an unrealistic expectation, it is not what McDonalds is geared up to do. Even the best McDonalds in the world isn't capable of producing 3 michelin star meals.
Realistically, when Ashes releases, the comments you are going to see from most MMORPG developers (the people, not the companies) is that yeah, they played Ashes, and yeah, they liked it.
Hold on a Moment there ... ... ... ... fixed.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Currently no guild !! (o_o)
Quite right, Yes. There is also this fact that many (most ?) of these Companies are run and under Authority of Decision-Makers, who in short : DON'T. PLAY. Videogames.
They are solely interested in Profits. Not in possible Fun of the VideoGamers. This sadly, is something that many, many VideoGamers have not realised over the Years.
It get's really interesting however, is how many People reacted towards "Larian Studios" because Larian made such a wonderful, beautiful and funny Game.
It was not just all Praises and Flowers. That is for sure. Apparently many People critizised Larian Studios for making such a Game,
because it allegedly "falsely rises" VideoGamers' expected Standards.
Which it does not.
Maybe i am somewhat entitled over here, but my Standart was always this -> " You give fun Game. Then me give You money. " (
I've boycotted more VideoGames between 2016 and 2023 than most VideoGamers ever did, i think. Now i am aware this is completely insignificant as i am only a single Person myself,
but damn so many VideoGames which could have been good. Very, very good in fact.
And then it is mostly " Under false Pretenses " - like it was in Aliens, Colonial Marines.
I dare say,
if many, MANY more People would have acted just like me, it would have made Videogame Developers think a little bit more. Respect the Wishes of the Gaming Community more.
We need more People who don't jump at any new, promising looking Game like a Trainstation-Junkie in Withdrawal to the next Shot of his Dealer.
I am not special. I am not extraordinary. My Willpower is not necessarily above anyone else's.
I think this to be the Case as well. Thanks for looking into this Topic, Noaani.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Currently no guild !! (o_o)
Lovely. Although it seems i can slightly hear the buzzing of a dung-fly in the Distance.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Currently no guild !! (o_o)
You will find very little criticizm of Larian. Not none, but very little.
What people said - and quite rightly - is that other companies simply can't do what they did, and so gamers should not expect it from them.
This is an absolutely true statement - and was made in reply to comments from people stating that Larian had raised the expectation of RPG's.
This is a perfectly valid statement to make.
The sequence of events was thus;
Larian released BG3.
Players loved BG3.
Developers in other companies loved BG3.
Person#1 said BG3 raised the bar for RPG' going forward.
Person#2 said that players shouldn't expect the bar to be raised due to BG3.
You posted this thread that person#2 criticized BG3.
You are right in stating that BG3 should not raise the bar of what gamers expect from games going forward. That means that you are actually agreeing with the person you are here criticizing, and it is in fact the person they were replying to (person#1 above) that you should be criticizing (if anyone).
I know your Life is shit and so on : and You hate Everyone who talks their Mind while You on the other Hand don't dare to do the same,
but believe me : " You - will - be - okay. "
Someday,
you find Someone, who will love You just for who you are. Then you don't need to act like an edgy, mouthy Teenager towards People like me in a Forum. Have a nice Day. Yes - on my Igno-List.
Please not You too, Chonkers.
I know what the " Checker-Language " in the Internet is,
and let me tell You : this is the Language of usually braindead " "Lower Secondary Education" -Students,
or outright " Special Needs School " -Students,
and long Story short - the latter is "NOT" for People with Disabilities - NOT for People who have one or several Handicaps,
No. I mean solely People who REFUSE to learn and educate themself and to improve their Brain -> i mean People who are so obstinate to be lazy and Lowbrow-Ghetto in Society - that they INTENTIONALLY throw their School Education under the Bus.
Please don't use the Word " Schizo ", Chonkers. I mean,
i could write some edgy, cool Stuff - like : " I am ALWAYS Schizo !! Now, to the Schizo-Batmobile !! "
But actually most People on the Internet who i see using the Word Schizo, are not necessarily smart People. It is more a thing for Entertainers. "Cheap" Entertainers. I know smarter People use that Word, too - but it has been spoiled.
Tainted. Sullied. Stained. The Word has become soiled by People who laugh over a Zero-I.Q. Joke.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Currently no guild !! (o_o)
Exactly.
When we all want to be completely fair actually,
then Yes. Yes i can accept that not all Video Game Companies "can" do the same. That not all have the Knowhow and so on.
But there is a Difference between People being not able to,
aaannnd People usually being "FORCED" to bring a Game out like Two Years before it would be really good and finished,
OORR People who "refuse" to put in the Time, Money - and Effort, to create a wonderful Game. I must say it is very disappointing how "restive and ornery" this Attitude and Stance from many VideoGame Companies looks from the outside,
or even worse : IS the actual Attitude and Stance from some Developers.
Like :
" Jeah we want your Money. "
" But we WON'T. MAKE. a. really. fun/good. VideoGame. "
" You. can. not. force. us. "
" We. will. make. what. we. want. And. You. get. either. THIS. - or. nothing. "
And i am fine with it. I rather skip +6 to +8 Games i would have loved to play probably - and get "nothing", as instead being fobbed off with a half-assed VideoGame,
that COULD have been so incredibly much Fun like some former VideoGames in the Past -> but then it is ag~aaaiiiinnnn only such an "half-fun" Knock-off,
next unworthy Successor after a glorious first Game/Predecessor... ...
It is just tiring.
The Air is just out of this. There is just Zero Surprise with so many Successors of former VideoGames which were all cool and exciting. And usually the second Game then falls flat, or is complete Garbage.
I have the Impression You missed my Point a little bit, Noaani. Thanks a lot for the good and correct Points anyway however.
What i mean,
what i meant with my as People call it " Schizo-Opening Comment " here,
is the Fact that the "Trashtalkers" will slowly coming crawling and otherwise emerging out from their Gollum-like Holes and Caves (lol),
and You can expect more or less funny Entertainment in the form of Drama happening in the Months to come. At least when the Alpha Two is finally here.
" MOST " Trashtalkers until now,
are usually these bitter, miserable little Gamers with a toxic Personality and usually as much Friends as they had Sex-Partners in their Life,
meaning most have not a single Friend, (
and those are usually PISSED because they waited for Ashes of Creation since 2018 or even before : and feel entitled to be entertained by Developers "OR" spitefully talk Trash about them, when their Expectations are not met.
For Example the Expectation that Ashes of Creation would have come out somewhere between 2021 and 2024
Ashes' Success will come. "Someday". Someday sooner, or later.
But the "now-Trashtalker", sooner or later to be followed by VideoGame Developers of long Story short shitty, bad VideoGames,
want Revenge for being let down for a few Years.
They " WANT " to see it fail. For several Reasons.
ONE is the Reason that they have already probably talked Trash about Ashes of Creation for Years.
" Muuuh. It's a Scam. "
" I know for a HUNDRED PERCENT SURE it's a Scam !! "
" It is a Scam like Star Citizen and will keep sucking your Money and never come out - and yada yada yada- "
Like a WoW-Player that got angry and sour over the Years from something -> and keeps constantly saying and claiming that WoW is a dead Game and that it is SO. DEAD. and we just wait and see it will come true sooner or later.
A few Times "Narc" came a bit close to become such a Person, but naaah. His Withdrawal from a good MMO have made him an atta-Loyalist to our Cause for a good MMO. Heheheheh.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Currently no guild !! (o_o)
Your OP and threat title are all about other companies criticizing Ashes. You stated it has begun already.
Rather than showing us where it begun, you cited a quote from a game developer in regards to Baulders Gate 3. That quote was essentially a weirdly worded piece of praise for the game (basically saying "we can't make anything like this game with the restrictions placed on us, please don't expect this from us").
Now, in this reply, you are talking about gamers, content creators and such - none of which existed in the threat title or the OP.
So, perhaps I have missed your point - but I think that is because you have changed what your point is. The point you are trying to make now is definately not the same as the point you were trying to make in the OP.
The only thing I can summarise is that you are trying to say that you think "general criticism for Ashes will start soon". As a general statement, it is perhaps true - but even then there are considerations to make.
Content creators criticise things if they think that is what their audience wants, or what will get them the most views. Their opinions they talk about are not always the opinions they have, they are the opinions they think will get them more views - much like EA, content creators are essentially running a business, and profit is paramount.
Posters on Reddit will critise Ashes - but that is because Reddit exists for talking shit - regardless of it is what people believe.
Most (not all) gaming "news" websites these days only give positive articles to games that have paid them money in some manner (adds or sponsored articles). Thus, most written media can be ignored.
So, basically, anything a content creator says can be ignored. Anything posted on Reddit can be ignored. Any articles about Ashes can be ignored. Add this to the notion that game developers will not talk shit about a game they didn't work on, and what are you left with?
Twitter/X, forums and Discord.
Idk what's funnier. The insane rambling from OP or you trying to have an actual discussion about whatever the hell OP is trying to say lmao.
It's like some homeless crackhead screaming about angels on the street and you're there like "yes, interesting...let's consider a few other possibilities first ☝️😮"
Indeed. And you can be sure it will get stronger in the Months to come. The first "scattered, more silent" bitching and whinings were already uttered.
Forgive me if i don't want to link X/Twitter here. ESPECIALLY NOT that Website.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Currently no guild !! (o_o)
Based on your misinterpritation of the quote you talked about in the OP, you'll have to excuse me for not just taking your word for it.
A ton of hope and dreams are riding on this development. I dont think "new" MMO gamers see how much. The ones of us, who remembers playing UO etc. We all have a sense of whats riding on this development.
That is fine Noaani. Time will definitely prove me right again.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Currently no guild !! (o_o)
I'm sure you will find quotes that you think back you up. If you really want to find a comment on Twitter to back you up, you can find it.
Nope.
Not simply Quotes, Noaani.
Not simply some Tweets on Twitter.
More like News Articles which make their Way to either YouTube, or the steaming pile of You-know-what that is Reddit - and ... ... ... well okay, maybe also Twitter.
But You can be sure it will come at some Point sooner or later -> and maybe in whole News Articles in the next Months already.
Why i can be so sure of that ? Well Alpha Two is coming. In the worst Case maybe i am around 2 Years to early with this Topic and will look silly in the long Run - but that doesn't mean that my Point doesn't stand.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Currently no guild !! (o_o)
Why are you giving that crap any credence though?
I will state though, your discussion in this thread has gone from developers talking shit, to players talking shit, back to developers talking shit and now it is "news" media talking shit.
You don't seem to have a cohesive understanding of who you want to blame. You seem to just be pointing your finger in to the dark and yelling "they" are doing it, with no thought or care as to who "they" actually are.
I see nothing else than genuine News Articles will satisfy You, Noaani ... ...
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Currently no guild !! (o_o)
He does not want to discuss or debate something, he wants you to see his words as the final truth. In short, he wants to "win" the argument, not discuss it.
Thanks for mentioning what i also at least partially suspect, but it is a little bit confusing. Because we have already seen this in Action of what i mentioned with this Topic in the first Place.
1.) Company makes great VideoGame.
2.) G~ooooood Videogame. (lol)
3.) Suddenly -> without any Warning or Reason, other Companies and Developers go W~IIIIIIIILD and either throw hissy-fits, what is completely embarrassing - or LIVELY STEP UP at least - and state one or several Reasons why this "G~ooooood Videogame" is for SOME Reason a Problem.
Like it is either a Problem to the Industry,
or the VideoGamers/Players themselves - because it "heightens" the Expectations/Standard allegedly,
and for "SOME" Reason Nobody can name - or wants to name -> apparently People can invest MUCH Motivation and Energy into telling People, why immensely good and funny VideoGames are for "SOME" Reason not the Normal Standard anymore.
Which is long Story short total Nonsense.
First of all -> many People's Standards never "lowered" from what is expected as normal since 2000 until the likes of 2015.
-> People STILL want to play usually only VideoGames they find fun to play.
-> People "STILL" usually buy only VideoGames that give them this Feeling of fun.
For what other Reason and Purpose would People want to play VideoGames otherwise ?
I mean it is nice that some People here like Noaani and a few Others come around the Corner,
and can explain to me why -> "Yes", there are apparently not so many competent, or "innovative" , capable Developers still around anymore,
and apparently it is "SO. HARD." (lol) to make a VideoGame simple - as in simply Fun for the Fanbase who wants a fun Game to play in the specific Fantasy-Universe and Franchise the Games takes place in,
but - honestly now ... ... ... ... ... what the heck ??
This doesn't change the Facts at all. >; )
Why should People want to purchase and buy and play VideoGames -> who are not Fun ?
Nobody can honestly tell me,
by the Time of "PIXEL-GAMES" long before 3D-Videogame Worlds were a thing -> People were for some magical Reason effortlessly able to develop cool, fun and stunning VideoGames,
and for some Reason now - since around 2011 to 2015 -> suddenly People have no Idea anymore allegedly what their Fanbase/Customer-Base and VideoGames want,
and can for some Reason not get any satisfying and funny Plot, Story, Game Mechanics and Fantasy-World inside a VideoGame running anymore.
But for some Reason,
for "SOME" Reason, Developers can make VideoGames that are mostly void of simple Fun : but full of Micro-Transactions and other ways to pay Money - AAAFTER the Game was already purchased and bought.
I don't want to quote Asmongold unnecessarily here,
but IMAGINE People would invest so much Effort, Willpower, Stamina, Time, Effort and Money into developing VideoGames, like they do at nagging and bitching about some actual good VideoGames like for example Baldurs Gate Three.
We see the Result on Baldurs Gate Three itself. The Developers do not only "love" the Game,
no - they invested "TIME", "Money", "Effort", Willpower, Skill, Stamina and so on - into making a good and worthy Successort of Baldurs Gate Two.
I see Sir Steven and his mighty Crew do just the same. Investing "LOTS" of Time, Money, Effort, Stamina and Skill and Willpower to create Greatness. They don't give up and keep being at it.
Not again One of these many Failures that got released Years to early.
I shall play the World's tiniest Violin for all those shitty Companies like Activision Blizzard, EA, Ubisoft and a few Others, when Ashes of Creation succeeds in a few Years : and the crying, whining, bitching and complaining of other Companies will reach up to the Sky's and above.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Currently no guild !! (o_o)
Nor is there any reason for Activision or Ubisoft to have hissy fits since Steven has not released any games yet..., he missed his "Before 2020" date, and it's been 3 years between Alpha 1 and Alpha 2.
And, sure, most developers will not be able to rely on help from family money to fund their project.
Most developers will need to rely on a publisher and/or outside investors. And publishers and outside investors can ask for changes that are money-oriented rather than fun-oriented.
But... Ashes still has to release first - then we can determine how much of a success the development has been.
Before we get in to where the comments you are talking about come from, perhaps you should just focus on understanding those comments.
We can discuss sources once you have understood what has been said. Again, you are missing the point of the comments on BG3.
The person that you said was complaining about Bg3 was in fact complementing it. Not just complementing it, but basically stating it was the best game that was able to be made given the state of the game development industry.
I can't think of any higher praise than someone working in the same industry as me saying that my output is the best that could conceivably be achieved across the entire industry in which I work.
That is some fucking solid praise. I'd print that shit out and frame it.
There is no win or lose in discussion. It is a discussion, not a competition.
My point here is that the OP blatantly misunderstood someone elses comments, and started running on a tangent with that in relation to developers badmouthing other games. When pointed out to them that this is not what was said, they then went on about press badmouthing games. When it was pointed out that most of the "gaming media" was in fact paid for "articles" that are little more than adds disguised as articles, they then switched it up again to being about other players badmouthing games.
The simple fact is, the bulk of the criticism for a game like Ashes, once it is live, will come from these very forums. Some YouTubers and other content creators may pick that up and either misrepresent it or blow it out of proportion (they want views, after all, not truth), but the basic fact is that most of the actual criticism for this game will come from it's players.
With all of this, I can't see the point the OP is making at all. It started off about develoeprs (as per the thread title), but game developers historically do not go around bad mouthing each others work.
I mean, look at No Man's Sky at launch. There were players hating on it (valid, as they played the game). There was some news organizations that ran with stories, but there were very few developers talking about it other than saying "lets see where they take this".
Same with Cyberpunk 2077. The game was objectively bad at launch. Other developers weren't talking about it though, because they know what it's like.
Or you have the more revent Cities Skylines 2, that game was a mess at launch. Developers were not commenting on it though, because again, they knew Paradox would do what they could to make things right.
The only time developers really trash talk other games is when they are basically scams.
Essentially, the either point in the OP and threat title is factually incorrect, but the OP themself has switched positions on who they claim is doing the badmouthing so many times that I really just don't know where their finger is pointing right now.
All I know is that if it is not pointed at us players (or potential players), it is pointing in the wrong direction - as we will always be the source of any and all criticism of the games we play.
I know this is less bordering to nothing of a Point or Argument from me,
but You "should have" ( NOT ^.^ ) visited the German WoW-Forum in early January and February this Year, Dygz. ^.^ The Reaction whenever i mentioned Ashes of Creation, Intrepid and Sir Steven was ... ... ...
... ... QUITE wild and toxic. ^.^
But to be fair here, this is the Case with the German WoW-Community since a l~OOOOONNNG time by now. People were already like this around the Age of Cataclysm around 2010 and so on.
In the "mildest Cases" You get met with sheer Ridicule, Sneer and Malice and People ask You mockingly "what" Ashes of Creation is : and act like it was never announced and never existed as a Game in Development.
In the not-so-mild-Cases, You get the Impression that Sir Steven has "done" something to these People,
like played them for a Fool,
took some of their Money away from them and gave them soul-less Content in more and more and evermore Grinds in a Game with a toxic Community,
but that wasn't Sir Steven : that was a former CEO named Bobby Kotick -> plus a bunch of nasty Pricks for Developers.
But to not divagate here to much. -> It will become interesting in a few Months at least. "IF" nobody beats me to the Punch, that is.
People complained and yapped in fear over their own Incompetence being called out, when Baldurs Gate Three was not even fully released.
And You can be confident it will happen again when an MMO comes out, that truly puts the Word "massive" back into MMO.
Because Developers will have all the Excuses in the World, why their own Game's Engine is rightfully to shitty to give and present others also this amazing Feeling of Epicness.
The Fourty-versus-Fourty-Players Battlegrounds from Worst of Warcraft for Example will just not able to keep up with the Epicness that will be Node Wars, Node Sieges, Monster-Coin Raids, Naval Battles, Caravan Battles, etc. etc. etc. - and the Four Seasons WoW will also not have.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Currently no guild !! (o_o)