As adventurers begin to pass through the portals from Sanctus, the lore of Terra is just myth. Playing a game of telephone for 1000 years surely has made these stories into impossible feats of strength or mysticism unheard of.
The idea of picking a magical class coming from Sanctus should be possible, as the players coming through are not the literal first. An introductory quest for magic users on how to harness magic would be nice, a reminder that Sanctus is a world devoid of magic.
Archetypes are just an idea, the ideology of them is up to the player. Fighter that enjoys herbalism? Great. Cleric who enjoys destroying fellow players in duels? Also great. These two archetypes have fantastically different "roles" to play within the greater lens of the game but it is the player that plays them and ultimately decides what to do.
Class based responses to quest text is something I always enjoy in a game. It's something that gives questing that little bit of flare that keeps me engaged in reading the whole quest line, responding with something I choose and living with that decision, even if it doesn't change the world.
It would be interesting to think that future AoC Storytelling With Archetypes could be told as a story instead of just complete missions or have titles, that really if my effort makes me get something incredible as a unique recognition it will be recorded and sung as history.
That the Storytelling With Archetypes stop being just as leveling up or character upgrades and evolve into something more usable and personal , something like a narrative line of a story, like a story or as part of a chant, something more special than just a cinematic or trailer.
Just like the Prologue of LOTR, a story told. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj139dE7tFI
A story that is being told depending on the events that occur in the different types of servers as if the storyteller with the voice of Morgan Freeman was telling it and where the players can know that they are part of it.
Like others have said, I think the archetypes can be connected to the lore of Verra through archetype-specific quest chains.
In addition, I think allowing each archetype to have an unique role they can fill outside of combat would have an enormous impact on how they connect to the lore. Fighter-specific dueling arena, mage-specific tome deciphering, summoner-specific taming, ranger-specific hunts, and of course bard-specific performances.
I look to Final Fantasy XIV and how they incorporate a large quest line for each of the playable jobs, allowing the players to immerse themselves in the origins of the archetype among other lore-based developments. The bard in particular is an interesting case, as in FFXIV bards are the only class that can perform with musical instruments; utilizing an amazing system of note-to-note play, they truly stand out as being the musicians and minstrels of that world. To see something akin to this in Verra and AoC would be amazing.
Lot of good suggestions. I’d like to see something where the bard tells the group some lore or news of the times. Maybe a daily quest where the bard goes to a town ( node) square or tavern and summons a lore creature or spirit. It tells or sings a tale/news. Anyone within distance can here/see the presentation and it’s archived for them to review for content/quest hints.
The bard can access the archive to replay as part of a performance.
This ends up being a bit server specific over time. Might be a way of introducing server events such as changes caused by player actions inactions. Etc…
EVERY archetype needs to have ways to do this, and I'm glad that this isn't just about the bard.
I could see Bards interfacing with the server history and events they've witnessed, as well as to be able to fulfill necessary performative roles at NPC event ceremonies. Now when they interact in these ways, it is up to them to choose which parts of the story to focus on in order to create the kinda mood and narrative that you are aiming for to influence the audience. This could be anything from the bias and perspective of a battle from one side or the other to paint the opposite side as the "bad guys" or to taking the audience through the highs and lows of a person's life in their eulogy--after speaking to people around the gathering before the ceremony begins to get some details and perspective on the recently departed.
Rangers would have a lot of interface with nature and natural goings on, and may have access to events that are off the beaten path and don't exactly start at an NPC so much as a peculiar plant feature or seemingly out of place pack of creatures, something that other players may observe but not know what to do with/about. Likewise they would have tracking skills that can help to locate things that are mentioned in local folklore but are perhaps unconfirmed.
I jokingly say "let tanks use their shield as a parachute" but nah, leave that in The Lost Vikings and Trine
I love what FFXI did with JSE artifact armor. It was a chance to learn the lore of the job class, but it was broken up throughout the last 10 levels before cap. Completing the set really motivated me to do the story quests (as someone who HATES questing and normally never cares about lore)
My main preference for all archetypes, in the context of storytelling and world building, is for them to have HUUUGE quest chains where we learn how any given archetype influences the world.
Personally, I'd love if the Class quest was this huge chain, where your character is taken to representatives of all archetypes, experiences effects that those archetypes would provide you through their augments (i.e. the mage part of the quest would have a mage npc teleport somewhere, or smth like that), and learns the history of the first settlers and how the archetypical leaders used their skills to make Verra livable again.
Imo that would be the most immersive way to both tell the story of the world being repopulated and to explain to the player, through in-game means, what they could expect if they choose one of the archetypes as their secondary.
I wholly agree with this, or mainly agree with this. I think there should be a large quest chain for the secondary of a class. I would separate a huge chain dealing with archetypes as a major optional/side quest.
Everquest 2 had some quick quests when you refined your class ( a lot like picking a secondary in Ashes) that explained the motivations of the different class types. The ones that stuck out to me were the class refinements from Fighter to Guardian, Crusader, or Brawler. The Guardian sent you on a quest to protects something (I think, i dont really remember that one). The Brawler got you into a bar brawl to showcase unarmed combat (as that further refined into monk/bruiser). The one that I thought was hilarious was the Crusader, though. This class refined into Paladin or Dark Knight, but the quest had little to do with that. The Crusader was all about joining a cause. The guy "training" you was standing in a line because he had committed to standing in that line. Nothing could dissuade him (not even how long it was taking to get to the front). They probably had something in the quest to deal with using Magic for damage, but the stupid line thing stuck with me all of these years.
Regardless, a beefy, optional, secondary quest that explores what your Archetype brings to the world would be amazing, and could help stimulate players' ideas on different ways the class can be played or skills used.
Usually no story matters and no story is memorable, I ran all possible quest chains in every game and I barely remember any of them, storylines are not important to any game and barely anyone remembers them.
It's best if your story is simply carved by your actions, whatever you do is your story. AoC should have let people pick their own goals and work towards achieving them. The system should then throw some curveballs at them, trying to make the players fail or get odd results (Bizarro World style). After many months, we’d see what happened, and the story of Verra would evolve based on the players' failures and successes. Please don’t create another dull story arc like other games, where players just grind through quests and hit the SKIP button when cutscenes come.
No one really cares about the lore itself, it's just a perfume shop people visit once in a decade. Lore is only fun if you can use it to justify why you're attacking your enemies and tell them to their faces: "This is why I killed you!!!"
So, with this, each server will have a different story, the world events will be there but the results wll not be exactly the same.
This isnt really true, though. It looks like you want to rush through content to get to end game and pvp. MMO players (at least the OGs) love a story, RP, exploration, etc.
I can agree that not every story is good, but this game style is steeped heavily in DnD. One of the reasons why MMOs are basically dead now is the constant attempt to remove the similarities to DnD. There is not a lot of solo play in DnD. There is not a lot of pvp in DnD. There is not a lot of skipping to the end in DnD. There is not a lot of DnD characters that can craft their own armor, weapons, jewelry/charms, and do everything everywhere all at once.
I think each ARCHETYPE should have its own Quest/Story chain unique to it. I like when MMOs make specific quest lines. You can showcase the mage going through Vera, learning about “Essence” and how to control & weave it. Or, the fighter coming from a barbarian village. So on so forth. I would love the quest line to extend 1-max level & taking place all around Vera.. maybe certain POIs being place for each specific archetype.
A great example of integrating an Archetype into Ashes lore IMO has been showcased during a previous Livestream, when a developper explained some of the lore behind the huge statues and the murals in front of the Carphin tower, referencing to some major Mage figures of Verra's past.
It was awesome. Very immersive. Very lore oriented. Very class related.
I'd like to see more of this. And I believe Bard could be the perfect archetype to build some solid link in game between classes and the lore.
Because Bards are storytellers right ?
I'd love to hear some Bard singing a song in a tavern about how village [Fill in the name] has been almost destroyed by some angry minotaur tribe, but warrior [Fill in the name²] managed to slay the minotaur warchief thanks to a deadly technique he acquired after training on the Potato Mountains.
And here is my warrior going on a journey all the way to the Potato Mountains in order to check if it's just a rumor or if there is an actual warrior class quest awaiting there, offering some specific augment for a given skill for example.
This example is not a straight « here is your quest, complete it and get the reward » approach (altough I suppose it could be), but to those among us who love lore it would be super immersive, and incredibly rewarding if there is an actual quest on the infamous Potato Mountains.
If they don't have much part to the lore or any significant storytelling, why add them? Every spell, class, area needs a background and why. It holds Intrepid team accountable to make sure everything they add fits with the brand and world of Ashes of Creation.
I'd love to hear stories from quests and Easter eggs about the origins of each archetype. Not only that, but even hear as to how every spell/ability came about.
What problem needed to be solved for one to come up with a solution (spell/ability) we now use on a regular basis, that we may even take for granted these days?
Usually no story matters and no story is memorable, I ran all possible quest chains in every game and I barely remember any of them, storylines are not important to any game and barely anyone remembers them.
I have to disagree. GW2 the race storyies and especally the living story is / was a great one. Nice characters , great story telling.. I loved it. The funny parts were great however the tragic scenes where you leave behind a companion are those who got under my skin. I still remember those scenes four to six years after i played them.
Usually no story matters and no story is memorable, I ran all possible quest chains in every game and I barely remember any of them, storylines are not important to any game and barely anyone remembers them.
It's best if your story is simply carved by your actions, whatever you do is your story. AoC should have let people pick their own goals and work towards achieving them. The system should then throw some curveballs at them, trying to make the players fail or get odd results (Bizarro World style). After many months, we’d see what happened, and the story of Verra would evolve based on the players' failures and successes. Please don’t create another dull story arc like other games, where players just grind through quests and hit the SKIP button when cutscenes come.
No one really cares about the lore itself, it's just a perfume shop people visit once in a decade. Lore is only fun if you can use it to justify why you're attacking your enemies and tell them to their faces: "This is why I killed you!!!"
So, with this, each server will have a different story, the world events will be there but the results wll not be exactly the same.
"storylines are not important to any game and barely anyone remembers them." This is simply an opinion that holds no credibility. Story do matters, that is a fact.
Another thought I had for a sort of lore "separation" or even potential conflict between classes/archtypes is having more physical focused classes like fighters, rogues, rangers, and tanks having their class forms and teachings based more in origin to Sanctus due to the lack of magic there requiring a focus in non-magic martial ability. Then the bard, mage, summoner, and cleric classes would have more origins within the world of Verra due to them being Magic focused. The Sanctus focused classes may have a natural aversion to the use of magic while Verra focused classes may think of the non-magic arts of war as uncivilized. There would obviously be room for lore where these ideals mix and match through secondary archetypes which would enable storylines for these arts coming together as well as the stories of them clashing with eachother.
i always like when games have classes have their own little story. like having a harpers guild that you can join that gives you their own quests that only bards can be a part of. you can have a couple special groups that each class can join and get higher ranks in. most games just focus on the pvp and fighting of each class and i would like to see more pve/utility story telling abilities.
Since Story Arcs are going to be a major vehicle for delivering certain types of content, I think it would be cool if different Archetypes had a role in either starting the Story Arc or progressing the Story Arc.
For example, since Bards are the story tellers, they could get an archetype-specific quest when a new Story Arc is introduced to spread the word of an imminent major event. The Tower of Carphin is about to cause a major blood moon? Any Bards can get a quest to travel around to nearby nodes and deliver the news to an NPC, which leads to a "Call to Arms" for other Archetypes to do their own specific quest to prepare for the event (tanks train soldiers, fighters sharpen weapons, clerics check the health of expedition members, etc.) The more Bards who spread the word, the more support players will get from their local nodes (or more soldiers per tanks, better weapon buffs per fighters, etc.)
Story Arcs, commissions boards, and dungeons are 3 of my most hyped systems in AoC, so having Archetype specific interactions for those pieces of content could be a huge source of fun and variety for players (especially those more interested in the PvE content than the PvP content).
How would you like to see character Archetypes like the Bard be integrated into Ashes of Creation’s lore and storytelling to enrich world-building?
Ability VFX
I would like to see the ability VFX tell part of the Ashes story. A good example is in the bard showcase as mentioned in the OP. Another example would be whichever deity a cleric devotes themselves to could impact some visuals of spells. (I can see an argument about pvp and interpreting ability telegraphing but you could limit this by level or only on High Priest augments.)
NPC Interaction
How NPCs respond to a character could vary based on race, archetype, profession, and level. I see the key to making this impactful is being selective in application. If a wizard of a high level goes to a mage academy then they might be more gracious, offer slightly better rewards, or have unique side quests. This not only enhances storytelling but makes the world a bit more dynamic and prompt the player to pay better attention to the story by making them curious. Not all the ways the world responds might be intuitive (so long as it isn't too punishing) and could make for some interesting experiences.
Problem Solving
With the same considerations as under the prior point, how a cleric might solve a crisis related to missing medical supplies might vary as compared to a rogue. Perhaps the cleric has the choice to spend time healing those in need instead of hunting down the thieves.
(Re?)Active Storytelling
Archetype, race, and profession could be a good vehicle for storytelling as well. A fun example that springs to mind, my Empyrean Elf Cleric of Shol who is a Metalworker may want to relearn a lost way of crafting a signature Empyrean alloy. Reclaiming this craft would be a victory for Empyreans, my faith, and my profession. The alloy could be a variant visually and in mechanic but still similar. My race, my faith, and my profession all saw this achievement as a monumental victory and it was prompted by the character I created so I am naturally more interested.
Another approach might be more organic where the player (based on the character they created) in a personal quest has to decide what part of Verra they want to learn more about at a given time. So there's an Empyrean questline, a cleric one, and a metalworking one. Maybe you can explore only one to finish or there's a long time lockout so the choice is compelling and important. If the choice is limited the reward significant otherwise the choice is limiting without a benefit which would feel bad.
That's all I've got for now but I might edit this later with more thoughts.
Wanted to expand on the (Re?)Active Story Telling point. Actively telling the story through the reactions of people to the choices you made when you make your character and how the world responds (both by interaction and content provided) makes the story come to life more and the world more dynamic.
I think a set of interests, goals, or something else that feed into how the world responds to you beyond your archetype could be interesting as well as perhaps a non-launch feature.
I'd like the game world to acknowledge the archetype I play in lore, quests and dialogue. However, as long as the "Tank" exists, it's going to be a problem.
I won't be able to take the world seriously if I have to go to the "Tanking Guild" to level up, or if a leader commands "the Tanks into the field". The word is just too loaded with real world context to be placed as is in a fantasy world, no matter the amount of lore explanations built around it.
Just give us Vanguard or Guardian. People will figure out it's the tank archetype and nothing of value was lost.
I think you need players empowered to be quest givers and that could be per Archetype or have crossover for multiple archetypes or tie in to a variety of relationships.
That would mean players having the tools to construct game content with developer supervision. Could be anything from a one off event to an entire campaign. Level of complexity would drive which quests could be given, with a tier system of “player-quest developers” built on trust and feedback from other players. Roll this in with guilds or nodes, and you can build the stories beyond just the meta.
How would you like to see character Archetypes like the Bard be integrated into Ashes of Creation’s lore and storytelling to enrich world-building?
When considering the integration of character archetypes such as the Bard into the lore and storytelling of Ashes of Creation, it's essential to delve into the underlying mechanisms that give these archetypes their unique powers and roles within the world. The Bard, for example, should not merely be seen as a character who uses music for buffing allies or manipulating the environment, but rather as a conduit of a deeper, mystical connection to the world's essence.
To enrich the world-building, the lore should explain how the Bard's musical abilities tap into ancient and arcane energies that flow through the land itself. These energies could be remnants of primordial forces or the echoes of a forgotten civilization that once harnessed the power of sound to shape reality. Each note or chord played by a Bard could resonate with specific frequencies that unlock or manipulate these latent forces, allowing the Bard to produce tangible effects—whether healing wounds, inspiring courage, or weaving illusions.
For instance, the lore could describe how certain instruments or musical scales are attuned to the elemental forces of the world. A lute crafted from the wood of a sacred tree might allow a Bard to summon protective barriers, while a flute made from dragonbone could invoke fear in enemies by channeling the essence of the beast. The songs themselves could be ancient incantations passed down through generations, each with its own history and significance, tied to specific events or deities within the world's mythology.
Similarly, this attention to detail should permeate other aspects of the world, such as the flora and fauna. Why do certain herbs have specific effects? This could be explained by the magical properties of the soil in which they grow, influenced by ley lines of power running beneath the earth. The difficulty of harvesting different herbs could be tied to their magical potency—herb X might be protected by thorny vines imbued with defensive magic, while herb Y could only grow in the shadow of a certain mountain range where the winds carry whispers of the past.
By embedding such intricate explanations into the lore, the world of Ashes of Creation would feel more alive and interconnected. Every action a player takes, from playing a melody as a Bard to gathering herbs as an alchemist, would be grounded in the rich history and magical framework of the world. This approach not only deepens immersion but also encourages players to explore and engage with the world on a more profound level, discovering the reasons behind the mechanics and the stories that bring them to life.
In conclusion, the integration of character archetypes like the Bard into the lore should be done with a focus on the "why" behind their powers and roles. By doing so, the world of Ashes of Creation can become a tapestry of interwoven stories and mechanics that enrich the player's experience and create a living, breathing world.
When it comes to character fantasy, one of the primary focus points should always be on a frame of power, and recognition for your progress within that frame. One of the primary mistakes that a lot of modern MMO make, is framing the world with unobtainable goals. When you put a king in front of someone and you say "This king is far more powerful than any other mortal in the realm. He is a warrior of infinite power and can only be bested by the old gods themselves." ... You are officially creating a frame in which the player operates.
The player now knows as a warrior, they want to strive to be as powerful as that king. Most players within their power fantasy seek to be an equal or even surpass that power frame you have established. The problem that happens is with the introduction of expansions, modern games constantly stretch that frame and break the power fantasy. Certainly hitting creatures with big numbers can help with that, but if the King is always magically fluctuating in power, and the power of enemies are artificial, you can never feel like you have a place in the world.
Without some form of power fantasy, you'll never be able to distinguish yourself from a city guard, and a vigilante adventurer, who's words weigh heavy on the ears of even the most powerful people in the world.
This of course is incredibly important when it comes to the Archetype's position in story and lore. Your class can be a perfect realm in which you can frame yourself in the world. I enjoyed a comment that was previously mentioned in this threat: Stories told of previous mages of untold power were carved into the very walls of Carphin. Learning stories of those people, finding their predecessors, and learning how to reach their potential. There is no satisfaction as ultimate as the ability to become someone written in the history books, or carved into a monolith.
Archetypes, race, gender, and creed, are all primary characteristics that can be leveraged to frame the power structure around the player. MMO players are burnt by previous games, you're either treated as a nameless soldier that has no history or impact, or you're constantly being bombarded with being the hero of everything always and anywhere. Instead if you're told, you're the first female arch-mage of the dark order, infused with the very power of the Goddess of Fate... That creates impact, that gives your character weight and importance. If every NPC you walked past bowed their head in respect, you could feel strong for a time, but quickly you would see it as a parlor trick by the Devs to make you feel accomplished.
If you walk past the mages of the world, and they bow down at the same time they raise their staff, and refer to you as the arch-mage, you feel your accomplishments and your place in the world. If warriors shrug at the presence of you, but respect your title and refer to you as the arch-mage, you feel the world adapt to your accomplishments around you.
If this is done right, if the Archetypes can be used as a tool to fuel satisfaction and achievement, I will be joyful to see my character on my screen every time that I log on. If that's not the goal of an MMO, I'm not sure what is honestly.
Class quests for each archetype group in neutral grounds that tells small fraction of story through their eyes.
For example:
-All bards go to music school with section for specific focus. Like in DnD (College of Lore section of school, College of Valour, College of Swords, College of Tragedy). Newly build.
-All Clerics converge at certain cathedral that was left thousands years ago.
-All mage primary classes go into floating Academia. Like a small magic school transported from previous world players inhabited.
...and so on.
....
And all of these could be in its early stages of settling in on Verra.
Like some things are newly build and some are ruins from 1000 years ago.
All of those hubs could have shady areas for subclasses that are not seen as good. I doubt wizards and necromancers would chill in the same section of the area.
Idk if this answers the question but I want to see an Order of Tulnar bards who use their music, maybe a form of the Blues, in order to cope with the difficulty of living in Verra during the Calamity. As generations passed and life got easier for the Tulnar their musical heritage stayed with them. Now they share their stories, and their music with the returning players and citizens; a way to try and convey just how bad things were but in a digestible format such as music.
I really want to see the Bard archtype to have different roles inside the lore within different races. Each race probably has it's own culture behind it and thus the Bard should have different roles inside each culture, though it's overall purpose is thematically tied to "the Bard". For example, in one race, it could be filling the role of court jester and a different race could be the traditional tavern Bard!
A bards strongest weapon is its tongue, will there be any chance for vocalization abilities, (I.E. Let me sing you to death.) much like how the current iteration of instruments interacts with abilities?
He who does not punish evil, commands it to be done. In the end, I will still usher those to either the jaws of Ammit or Eternal Paradise.
A bards strongest weapon is its tongue, will there be any chance for vocalization abilities, (I.E. Let me sing you to death.) much like how the current iteration of instruments interacts with abilities?
Bro imagine bards can force game chat on anyone by disabling the other person's mute button, and annoy them to the point of alt f4ing out of the game.
Comments
The idea of picking a magical class coming from Sanctus should be possible, as the players coming through are not the literal first. An introductory quest for magic users on how to harness magic would be nice, a reminder that Sanctus is a world devoid of magic.
Archetypes are just an idea, the ideology of them is up to the player. Fighter that enjoys herbalism? Great. Cleric who enjoys destroying fellow players in duels? Also great. These two archetypes have fantastically different "roles" to play within the greater lens of the game but it is the player that plays them and ultimately decides what to do.
Class based responses to quest text is something I always enjoy in a game. It's something that gives questing that little bit of flare that keeps me engaged in reading the whole quest line, responding with something I choose and living with that decision, even if it doesn't change the world.
OR DOES IT?
Storytelling With Archetypes
It would be interesting to think that future AoC Storytelling With Archetypes could be told as a story instead of just complete missions or have titles, that really if my effort makes me get something incredible as a unique recognition it will be recorded and sung as history.
That the Storytelling With Archetypes stop being just as leveling up or character upgrades and evolve into something more usable and personal , something like a narrative line of a story, like a story or as part of a chant, something more special than just a cinematic or trailer.
Just like the Prologue of LOTR, a story told.
A story that is being told depending on the events that occur in the different types of servers as if the storyteller with the voice of Morgan Freeman was telling it and where the players can know that they are part of it.
I imagine a voice like Morgan Freeman's narrating the events that my characters provoke in my journey through Verra.
In addition, I think allowing each archetype to have an unique role they can fill outside of combat would have an enormous impact on how they connect to the lore. Fighter-specific dueling arena, mage-specific tome deciphering, summoner-specific taming, ranger-specific hunts, and of course bard-specific performances.
I look to Final Fantasy XIV and how they incorporate a large quest line for each of the playable jobs, allowing the players to immerse themselves in the origins of the archetype among other lore-based developments. The bard in particular is an interesting case, as in FFXIV bards are the only class that can perform with musical instruments; utilizing an amazing system of note-to-note play, they truly stand out as being the musicians and minstrels of that world. To see something akin to this in Verra and AoC would be amazing.
The bard can access the archive to replay as part of a performance.
This ends up being a bit server specific over time. Might be a way of introducing server events such as changes caused by player actions inactions. Etc…
I could see Bards interfacing with the server history and events they've witnessed, as well as to be able to fulfill necessary performative roles at NPC event ceremonies. Now when they interact in these ways, it is up to them to choose which parts of the story to focus on in order to create the kinda mood and narrative that you are aiming for to influence the audience. This could be anything from the bias and perspective of a battle from one side or the other to paint the opposite side as the "bad guys" or to taking the audience through the highs and lows of a person's life in their eulogy--after speaking to people around the gathering before the ceremony begins to get some details and perspective on the recently departed.
Rangers would have a lot of interface with nature and natural goings on, and may have access to events that are off the beaten path and don't exactly start at an NPC so much as a peculiar plant feature or seemingly out of place pack of creatures, something that other players may observe but not know what to do with/about. Likewise they would have tracking skills that can help to locate things that are mentioned in local folklore but are perhaps unconfirmed.
I jokingly say "let tanks use their shield as a parachute" but nah, leave that in The Lost Vikings and Trine
I love what FFXI did with JSE artifact armor. It was a chance to learn the lore of the job class, but it was broken up throughout the last 10 levels before cap. Completing the set really motivated me to do the story quests (as someone who HATES questing and normally never cares about lore)
I wholly agree with this, or mainly agree with this. I think there should be a large quest chain for the secondary of a class. I would separate a huge chain dealing with archetypes as a major optional/side quest.
Everquest 2 had some quick quests when you refined your class ( a lot like picking a secondary in Ashes) that explained the motivations of the different class types. The ones that stuck out to me were the class refinements from Fighter to Guardian, Crusader, or Brawler. The Guardian sent you on a quest to protects something (I think, i dont really remember that one). The Brawler got you into a bar brawl to showcase unarmed combat (as that further refined into monk/bruiser). The one that I thought was hilarious was the Crusader, though. This class refined into Paladin or Dark Knight, but the quest had little to do with that. The Crusader was all about joining a cause. The guy "training" you was standing in a line because he had committed to standing in that line. Nothing could dissuade him (not even how long it was taking to get to the front). They probably had something in the quest to deal with using Magic for damage, but the stupid line thing stuck with me all of these years.
Regardless, a beefy, optional, secondary quest that explores what your Archetype brings to the world would be amazing, and could help stimulate players' ideas on different ways the class can be played or skills used.
This isnt really true, though. It looks like you want to rush through content to get to end game and pvp. MMO players (at least the OGs) love a story, RP, exploration, etc.
I can agree that not every story is good, but this game style is steeped heavily in DnD. One of the reasons why MMOs are basically dead now is the constant attempt to remove the similarities to DnD. There is not a lot of solo play in DnD. There is not a lot of pvp in DnD. There is not a lot of skipping to the end in DnD. There is not a lot of DnD characters that can craft their own armor, weapons, jewelry/charms, and do everything everywhere all at once.
It was awesome. Very immersive. Very lore oriented. Very class related.
I'd like to see more of this. And I believe Bard could be the perfect archetype to build some solid link in game between classes and the lore.
Because Bards are storytellers right ?
I'd love to hear some Bard singing a song in a tavern about how village [Fill in the name] has been almost destroyed by some angry minotaur tribe, but warrior [Fill in the name²] managed to slay the minotaur warchief thanks to a deadly technique he acquired after training on the Potato Mountains.
And here is my warrior going on a journey all the way to the Potato Mountains in order to check if it's just a rumor or if there is an actual warrior class quest awaiting there, offering some specific augment for a given skill for example.
This example is not a straight « here is your quest, complete it and get the reward » approach (altough I suppose it could be), but to those among us who love lore it would be super immersive, and incredibly rewarding if there is an actual quest on the infamous Potato Mountains.
A Fighter hitting max level just going ''i'm a Spellblade now'' is the worst thing you could do for world building.
There can't just be some ''choose your subclass'' list that pops out of nowhere without an explanation.
Instead you would need to find these specific subclass trainers out in the world somewhere.
They would then proceed to give you a quest chain to unlock that class.
Final Fantasy 14 has a system like this and it's amazing.
What problem needed to be solved for one to come up with a solution (spell/ability) we now use on a regular basis, that we may even take for granted these days?
I have to disagree. GW2 the race storyies and especally the living story is / was a great one. Nice characters , great story telling.. I loved it. The funny parts were great however the tragic scenes where you leave behind a companion are those who got under my skin. I still remember those scenes four to six years after i played them.
Quality over Quantity
"storylines are not important to any game and barely anyone remembers them." This is simply an opinion that holds no credibility. Story do matters, that is a fact.
For example, since Bards are the story tellers, they could get an archetype-specific quest when a new Story Arc is introduced to spread the word of an imminent major event. The Tower of Carphin is about to cause a major blood moon? Any Bards can get a quest to travel around to nearby nodes and deliver the news to an NPC, which leads to a "Call to Arms" for other Archetypes to do their own specific quest to prepare for the event (tanks train soldiers, fighters sharpen weapons, clerics check the health of expedition members, etc.) The more Bards who spread the word, the more support players will get from their local nodes (or more soldiers per tanks, better weapon buffs per fighters, etc.)
Story Arcs, commissions boards, and dungeons are 3 of my most hyped systems in AoC, so having Archetype specific interactions for those pieces of content could be a huge source of fun and variety for players (especially those more interested in the PvE content than the PvP content).
Ability VFX
I would like to see the ability VFX tell part of the Ashes story. A good example is in the bard showcase as mentioned in the OP. Another example would be whichever deity a cleric devotes themselves to could impact some visuals of spells. (I can see an argument about pvp and interpreting ability telegraphing but you could limit this by level or only on High Priest augments.)
NPC Interaction
How NPCs respond to a character could vary based on race, archetype, profession, and level. I see the key to making this impactful is being selective in application. If a wizard of a high level goes to a mage academy then they might be more gracious, offer slightly better rewards, or have unique side quests. This not only enhances storytelling but makes the world a bit more dynamic and prompt the player to pay better attention to the story by making them curious. Not all the ways the world responds might be intuitive (so long as it isn't too punishing) and could make for some interesting experiences.
Problem Solving
With the same considerations as under the prior point, how a cleric might solve a crisis related to missing medical supplies might vary as compared to a rogue. Perhaps the cleric has the choice to spend time healing those in need instead of hunting down the thieves.
(Re?)Active Storytelling
Archetype, race, and profession could be a good vehicle for storytelling as well. A fun example that springs to mind, my Empyrean Elf Cleric of Shol who is a Metalworker may want to relearn a lost way of crafting a signature Empyrean alloy. Reclaiming this craft would be a victory for Empyreans, my faith, and my profession. The alloy could be a variant visually and in mechanic but still similar. My race, my faith, and my profession all saw this achievement as a monumental victory and it was prompted by the character I created so I am naturally more interested.
Another approach might be more organic where the player (based on the character they created) in a personal quest has to decide what part of Verra they want to learn more about at a given time. So there's an Empyrean questline, a cleric one, and a metalworking one. Maybe you can explore only one to finish or there's a long time lockout so the choice is compelling and important. If the choice is limited the reward significant otherwise the choice is limiting without a benefit which would feel bad.
That's all I've got for now but I might edit this later with more thoughts.
I think a set of interests, goals, or something else that feed into how the world responds to you beyond your archetype could be interesting as well as perhaps a non-launch feature.
I won't be able to take the world seriously if I have to go to the "Tanking Guild" to level up, or if a leader commands "the Tanks into the field". The word is just too loaded with real world context to be placed as is in a fantasy world, no matter the amount of lore explanations built around it.
Just give us Vanguard or Guardian. People will figure out it's the tank archetype and nothing of value was lost.
That would mean players having the tools to construct game content with developer supervision. Could be anything from a one off event to an entire campaign. Level of complexity would drive which quests could be given, with a tier system of “player-quest developers” built on trust and feedback from other players. Roll this in with guilds or nodes, and you can build the stories beyond just the meta.
When considering the integration of character archetypes such as the Bard into the lore and storytelling of Ashes of Creation, it's essential to delve into the underlying mechanisms that give these archetypes their unique powers and roles within the world. The Bard, for example, should not merely be seen as a character who uses music for buffing allies or manipulating the environment, but rather as a conduit of a deeper, mystical connection to the world's essence.
To enrich the world-building, the lore should explain how the Bard's musical abilities tap into ancient and arcane energies that flow through the land itself. These energies could be remnants of primordial forces or the echoes of a forgotten civilization that once harnessed the power of sound to shape reality. Each note or chord played by a Bard could resonate with specific frequencies that unlock or manipulate these latent forces, allowing the Bard to produce tangible effects—whether healing wounds, inspiring courage, or weaving illusions.
For instance, the lore could describe how certain instruments or musical scales are attuned to the elemental forces of the world. A lute crafted from the wood of a sacred tree might allow a Bard to summon protective barriers, while a flute made from dragonbone could invoke fear in enemies by channeling the essence of the beast. The songs themselves could be ancient incantations passed down through generations, each with its own history and significance, tied to specific events or deities within the world's mythology.
Similarly, this attention to detail should permeate other aspects of the world, such as the flora and fauna. Why do certain herbs have specific effects? This could be explained by the magical properties of the soil in which they grow, influenced by ley lines of power running beneath the earth. The difficulty of harvesting different herbs could be tied to their magical potency—herb X might be protected by thorny vines imbued with defensive magic, while herb Y could only grow in the shadow of a certain mountain range where the winds carry whispers of the past.
By embedding such intricate explanations into the lore, the world of Ashes of Creation would feel more alive and interconnected. Every action a player takes, from playing a melody as a Bard to gathering herbs as an alchemist, would be grounded in the rich history and magical framework of the world. This approach not only deepens immersion but also encourages players to explore and engage with the world on a more profound level, discovering the reasons behind the mechanics and the stories that bring them to life.
In conclusion, the integration of character archetypes like the Bard into the lore should be done with a focus on the "why" behind their powers and roles. By doing so, the world of Ashes of Creation can become a tapestry of interwoven stories and mechanics that enrich the player's experience and create a living, breathing world.
The player now knows as a warrior, they want to strive to be as powerful as that king. Most players within their power fantasy seek to be an equal or even surpass that power frame you have established. The problem that happens is with the introduction of expansions, modern games constantly stretch that frame and break the power fantasy. Certainly hitting creatures with big numbers can help with that, but if the King is always magically fluctuating in power, and the power of enemies are artificial, you can never feel like you have a place in the world.
Without some form of power fantasy, you'll never be able to distinguish yourself from a city guard, and a vigilante adventurer, who's words weigh heavy on the ears of even the most powerful people in the world.
This of course is incredibly important when it comes to the Archetype's position in story and lore. Your class can be a perfect realm in which you can frame yourself in the world. I enjoyed a comment that was previously mentioned in this threat: Stories told of previous mages of untold power were carved into the very walls of Carphin. Learning stories of those people, finding their predecessors, and learning how to reach their potential. There is no satisfaction as ultimate as the ability to become someone written in the history books, or carved into a monolith.
Archetypes, race, gender, and creed, are all primary characteristics that can be leveraged to frame the power structure around the player. MMO players are burnt by previous games, you're either treated as a nameless soldier that has no history or impact, or you're constantly being bombarded with being the hero of everything always and anywhere. Instead if you're told, you're the first female arch-mage of the dark order, infused with the very power of the Goddess of Fate... That creates impact, that gives your character weight and importance. If every NPC you walked past bowed their head in respect, you could feel strong for a time, but quickly you would see it as a parlor trick by the Devs to make you feel accomplished.
If you walk past the mages of the world, and they bow down at the same time they raise their staff, and refer to you as the arch-mage, you feel your accomplishments and your place in the world. If warriors shrug at the presence of you, but respect your title and refer to you as the arch-mage, you feel the world adapt to your accomplishments around you.
If this is done right, if the Archetypes can be used as a tool to fuel satisfaction and achievement, I will be joyful to see my character on my screen every time that I log on. If that's not the goal of an MMO, I'm not sure what is honestly.
For example:
-All bards go to music school with section for specific focus. Like in DnD (College of Lore section of school, College of Valour, College of Swords, College of Tragedy). Newly build.
-All Clerics converge at certain cathedral that was left thousands years ago.
-All mage primary classes go into floating Academia. Like a small magic school transported from previous world players inhabited.
...and so on.
....
And all of these could be in its early stages of settling in on Verra.
Like some things are newly build and some are ruins from 1000 years ago.
All of those hubs could have shady areas for subclasses that are not seen as good. I doubt wizards and necromancers would chill in the same section of the area.
The Bard is the jester in the king's court. The choir singer in the church. The drummer keeping the military's march on pace.
When there is no fighting, the Bards are the ones that keep society busy and distracted with telling stories and have plays.
It was likely that Bards that helped keep the morale when everyone was exiled from Verra.
Bro imagine bards can force game chat on anyone by disabling the other person's mute button, and annoy them to the point of alt f4ing out of the game.