As to wars being the primary method to declare player conflict, nothing promotes zergs more. Who, besides the largest and most organized player organizations, will be declaring wars?
High player count orgs will use the war system to exert their will on everyone else. The only opportunity you will have to hit back will be when they declare war on you. That will always be on their terms.
Fantasies about Robin Hood or the little guy striking back in areas that punish spontaneous pvp are just fantasies.
I think everybody will declare wars on everybody if they can afford paying the fee, maybe the fee too add 300 players in a war should cost 300x so if you have three guilds with 100 players then you would still have to pay for the 300x. So a big guild with 300 players would pay 900x for declaring three different wars.
Scaling the declaration costs is a step in the right direction. It mitigates though. It doesn't cure.
Larger organizations still have their support structures. They could easily divide themselves up. One guild for fighting, one for supplying. They could even divide themselves up into regiments. The supply guild doesn't declare war, they just "sell" everything the fighters need and never have to endanger themselves.
If large organizations divide themselves up well enough, they just have to declare one war. The smaller defenders have to declare several wars to be allowed to attack everyone who is actually coming after them.
If you didn't catch in on stream, they announced that there will be lawless areas that will not be affected by Corruption. They will be higher level areas and they will have caravan drop off point that will pay more.
Just wondering what people thoughts about this.
I don't like it, but it makes sense to me within the following confines:
The mechanic is introduced into A2 primarily to collect more data on PvP in activity in an objective based environment (the objective being the high level monsters, probably as a substitute for too few open world dungeons)
Within the storyline of what Alpha 2 represents (the wave of first settlers trying to get as many resources for themselves from the wilderness)
It will be all but gone in the finished game outside of the open seas and events
Of course and it will continue until the game releases at which point players will either accept it or they leave for a different game because they indeed cannot arrange themselves with the fact that PvP can happen.
RaetionMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I personally don't mind the open seas being a lawless zone.
But to have a land area that is Lawless and on top of that that this is the only area where the end game mobs are I do no agree with.
I am aware that they are doing this for the current testing.
But if they bring this on release it would be a major change to their game.
And I would not support this change.
I personally don't mind the open seas being a lawless zone.
But to have a land area that is Lawless and on top of that that this is the only area where the end game mobs are I do no agree with.
I am aware that they are doing this for the current testing.
But if they bring this on release it would be a major change to their game.
And I would not support this change.
I think they want to see people's reactions first before they decide if they will bring it on release. I personally believe the majority won't like it so no need to worry, but for testing purposes I think it's a great addition in the alpha.
I personally don't mind the open seas being a lawless zone.
But to have a land area that is Lawless and on top of that that this is the only area where the end game mobs are I do no agree with.
I am aware that they are doing this for the current testing.
But if they bring this on release it would be a major change to their game.
And I would not support this change.
I think they want to see people's reactions first before they decide if they will bring it on release. I personally believe the majority won't like it so no need to worry, but for testing purposes I think it's a great addition in the alpha.
So what will the majority do if they don't like it?
I think they will not avoid it. And they will get used to it. Then they will miss it.
If you didn't catch in on stream, they announced that there will be lawless areas that will not be affected by Corruption. They will be higher level areas and they will have caravan drop off point that will pay more.
Just wondering what people thoughts about this.
I really like the idea that im going to relive my OSRS Wilderness feeling again i also loved this idea in Albion online it works really well because it gives everyone what they want, pvpers get that hgih risk high reward. people who are more risk advrse can just trade for those higher tier items everyone wins
Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Lawless areas are great for the game, those are the places people go for a fight, go for a roam with your friends when you are bored and get some good fights without the constraints of being under a war and any flagging system.
We have Lawless systems in EVE now and people are adoring it, the lawless systems stay in this state for a few days and then it wears off.
Even the carebears find it enticing having the danger come closer to them and having to develop new strategies to adapt, this keeps everybody entertained.
This came out with the Havoc expansion, the most successful expansion released in it's 20 years.
Carebears don't play EvE.
Sounds similar to ArcheAge, though. L2 and ArcheAge fans are the target audience for Ashes, so... should be OK.
Heh - the drama. I don’t think ‘lawless zones’ are anything more than a fence around the swingset while they work on the slide.
Breathe, my friends.
As for me, all I want is for people who are fine with it as a test (or at least don't care enough about the downsides/weird implications of it to make a fuss) but NOT entirely fine with this proceeding... say so now.
Heh - the drama. I don’t think ‘lawless zones’ are anything more than a fence around the swingset while they work on the slide.
Breathe, my friends.
As for me, all I want is for people who are fine with it as a test (or at least don't care enough about the downsides/weird implications of it to make a fuss) but NOT entirely fine with this proceeding... say so now.
I don't want another New World Alpha situation.
I am fine with it as a testing mechanism
I would be fine with it as an empty zone for large groups to pvp just for kicks
Hell I would be ok with a large island with one pirate hold on it where a single guild or player can be pirate lord and “safely” stockpile their plunder until a rival player dethrones
What I am NOT ok with is another high level zone where “the best” drops are with auto flagging
Why?
Because my first impression of this game(albeit naive) back in 2018 was a game that has amazing pve systems and content where we would be able to use pvp to solve problems.
Someone farming mats you want? Snipe em
Player blocking your path do a dungeon? Slit their throat
Someone flooding the AH with cheap materials? KOS
But this game is leaning more and more towards PvP IS the content, and I know THAT is not a game I will play for very long
And before anyone says it yes I know “this game might be for you”
And trust me I have gone from being a white knight who was literally gathering real life humans to adventure through Vera, to cautiously optimistic, to let’s wait and see.
If it keeps up that pattern, then it’s only a matter of time before I write this game off.
And honestly that is fine, if they decide that is the direction they want to go, but as someone who is excited for so many amazing things intrepid has promised and in my opinion definitely has been delivering on I want to want to play this game for a long long time
As to wars being the primary method to declare player conflict, nothing promotes zergs more. Who, besides the largest and most organized player organizations, will be declaring wars?
High player count orgs will use the war system to exert their will on everyone else. The only opportunity you will have to hit back will be when they declare war on you. That will always be on their terms.
Fantasies about Robin Hood or the little guy striking back in areas that punish spontaneous pvp are just fantasies.
I think everybody will declare wars on everybody if they can afford paying the fee, maybe the fee too add 300 players in a war should cost 300x so if you have three guilds with 100 players then you would still have to pay for the 300x. So a big guild with 300 players would pay 900x for declaring three different wars.
Scaling the declaration costs is a step in the right direction. It mitigates though. It doesn't cure.
Larger organizations still have their support structures. They could easily divide themselves up. One guild for fighting, one for supplying. They could even divide themselves up into regiments. The supply guild doesn't declare war, they just "sell" everything the fighters need and never have to endanger themselves.
If large organizations divide themselves up well enough, they just have to declare one war. The smaller defenders have to declare several wars to be allowed to attack everyone who is actually coming after them.
For months, from time to time, I thought about this and after thinking a lot a concluded that:
scaling the war fee is bad for the game
This is because the people who can wardec the entire server should do it for the sake of making more enemies against themselves, however if the fees scale then they will wardec less people and they will absolutely stomp the few enemies they make.
War fee should be flat, but based on members number, the more members you have the more you pay.
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
But the most dangerous space in the game was LowSec 0.1-0.5 space. Little police response but the transition from HiSec to Nullsec, so pirates were everywhere and it was often total chaos and the most dangerous systems to travel through.
I think of this sort of thing like THAT, and typically, those were the places very few people went. The only reason people went there was they had to pass THROUGH there, and in the end, that makes those spaces only for the most niche of the most niche of players.
That's where I live in EVE!
More specifically, I live in the factional warfare warzone, right in the heart of the warzone specifically in the most central system.
Nowadays even lowsec and highec can become lawless due to the Havoc expansion mechanics, you can now deploy bubbles and bombs in lowsec; and in highsec CONCORD police doesn't come if your ship or station is being shot.
Lowsec nowadays is full of people in the warzone and around it, many groups from nullsec and highec are going to fight and farm in lowsec, it's quite a revolution in the game and the content is simply celebrated by the players.
The Lawless state is quite a huge thing now, you can even go to highsec and bash player structures without police interference and without even needing a war declaration.
Lawless areas are fine and huge groups go fight huge groups for the lolz
Wow, I haven't looked at Havoc yet. That actually sounds fantastic.
I'm 95 percent care bear and even I like what you just described.
I can imagine, I have some friends who kept being highsec miners for years and never tried anything, but then they got attacked on highsec and they joined the militia and started fighting in highsec and lowsec in a daily basis, they also started mining in lowsec and participating in structure fights. They are very happy now, they are still miners tough, but miners who fight
Nowadays in EVE you can even align with the npc pirates, like Guristas and Angels and live in the new region of space, beyond empires. What CCP did is instead of making better AI for the NPCs, they just let people be the official pirates in the game and form a pirate army who only goals are killing, stealing and spreading corruption to achieve the lawless state. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knwql031JR4
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
Hate it. I hated the seas as well. This will push away even more people, while completely ruining the whole fucking point of wars between guilds and nodes.
And don't even start me on corruption and BHs...
Agreed for the most part.
If they wanna have open pvp areas that's fine but I don't think having areas without corruption penalty will be good for the game. It's kind of like removing the dislike button from youtube. You can't tell anymore who is a baddy and who is friendly..
Another way to put it is, in d and d terms: they just turned on murder hobo mode.
"Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes." - Ephesians 6:11
Lawless areas are great, the rewards can be exactly the same as any other area and the lawless area will still be better for the farmers. The tiny lawless areas will be chill and people becomming friends, everything else will be plagued with toxic fearmers
I am sure that if 5% of the planet is lawless it will make ll the carebears whine day and night that they have only 95% of the map for themselves and why not 100% of the map? LOL
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
I hope they keep at least one lawless zone on land in the world on release.
Of course this zone shouldn't contain exclusive ressources or items you can't find elsewhere.
At best it could have a better spawn/drop rate or a way to earn exclusive cosmsetics.
I hope they keep at least one lawless zone on land in the world on release.
Of course this zone shouldn't contain exclusive ressources or items you can't find elsewhere.
At best it could have a better spawn/drop rate or a way to earn exclusive cosmsetics.
I think lawless areas should have normal everything, the only difference is that it's lawless. For sure, this is enough to be a better area for farmers since it won't be crowded and the locals will form strong bonds among themselves and raise an army, it will be awesome
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
I hope they keep at least one lawless zone on land in the world on release.
Of course this zone shouldn't contain exclusive ressources or items you can't find elsewhere.
At best it could have a better spawn/drop rate or a way to earn exclusive cosmsetics.
One area i feel would be pointless, i could see akin to node destruction, there could be a area that becomes lawless for some reason.
If you didn't catch in on stream, they announced that there will be lawless areas that will not be affected by Corruption. They will be higher level areas and they will have caravan drop off point that will pay more.
Just wondering what people thoughts about this.
I love it. Most of my favourite games (that aren't full ffa pvp) have this kind of system and it works great, especially and perhaps necessarily, if there's enough good quality content in the carebear zones. I love me some ffa pvp for high-value items, but sometimes it's nice to just point your mining laser at a high-sec veldspar 'roid and chill out.
Eve, Albion, DAoC, many others follow that model and it creates some very fun gameplay. I loved collecting nullsec loot, then trying to find the safest way to transporr it to highsec. Some of the most fun i've had gaming were 3 way battles in Darkness Falls (a large, full pvpve dungeon in DAoC).
I was very excited when they announced the "black zone" aspect of the oceans, and i'm even more excited that they're going to expand that type of content.
People think that just because there might be pvp zones or the corruption system that carebears won't even farm. That's not the case, they will just most likely farm to the lower valued zones where player friction will be minimized.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Carebears won't even play.
There will be PvPers who focus on farms, sure.
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mcstackersonMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Carebears won't even play.
There will be PvPers who focus on farms, sure.
Just because someone is a carebear, doesn't mean they are intolerant of PVP.
I would really like to see an MMORPG official dictionary...lol
Because in my experience Carebear means exactly that someone is intolerant of PvP. That is at least how it is used most frequently in my experience.
,
As an old af aficionado of 80s cartoons, though Carebears are obsessively peaceful and loving, they are more than willing to fight evil when necessary:
"The Care Bears' ultimate weapon is the "Care Bear Stare", in which the collected Bears stand together and radiate light from their respective tummy symbols. These combine to form a ray of love and good cheer which can bring care and joy into the target's heart, break dark spells, or revive something that has been broken, wilted, or messed up"
Carebears won't even play.
There will be PvPers who focus on farms, sure.
Just because someone is a carebear, doesn't mean they are intolerant of PVP.
I would really like to see an MMORPG official dictionary...lol
Because in my experience Carebear means exactly that someone is intolerant of PvP. That is at least how it is used most frequently in my experience.
,
As an old af aficionado of 80s cartoons, though Carebears are obsessively peaceful and loving, they are more than willing to fight evil when necessary:
"The Care Bears' ultimate weapon is the "Care Bear Stare", in which the collected Bears stand together and radiate light from their respective tummy symbols. These combine to form a ray of love and good cheer which can bring care and joy into the target's heart, break dark spells, or revive something that has been broken, wilted, or messed up"
Heh yeah! It was always a fight with my sister over Carebears versus He-Man. But the power of Grayskull for the win. I pwned her in cartoon PvP silly Carebear that she was.
Comments
I'd be showing up like this
Scaling the declaration costs is a step in the right direction. It mitigates though. It doesn't cure.
Larger organizations still have their support structures. They could easily divide themselves up. One guild for fighting, one for supplying. They could even divide themselves up into regiments. The supply guild doesn't declare war, they just "sell" everything the fighters need and never have to endanger themselves.
If large organizations divide themselves up well enough, they just have to declare one war. The smaller defenders have to declare several wars to be allowed to attack everyone who is actually coming after them.
I don't like it, but it makes sense to me within the following confines:
But to have a land area that is Lawless and on top of that that this is the only area where the end game mobs are I do no agree with.
I am aware that they are doing this for the current testing.
But if they bring this on release it would be a major change to their game.
And I would not support this change.
I think they are only doing land for the testing phase, because you need to test this stuff.
I think they want to see people's reactions first before they decide if they will bring it on release. I personally believe the majority won't like it so no need to worry, but for testing purposes I think it's a great addition in the alpha.
So what will the majority do if they don't like it?
I think they will not avoid it. And they will get used to it. Then they will miss it.
I really like the idea that im going to relive my OSRS Wilderness feeling again i also loved this idea in Albion online it works really well because it gives everyone what they want, pvpers get that hgih risk high reward. people who are more risk advrse can just trade for those higher tier items everyone wins
Sounds similar to ArcheAge, though. L2 and ArcheAge fans are the target audience for Ashes, so... should be OK.
Breathe, my friends.
As for me, all I want is for people who are fine with it as a test (or at least don't care enough about the downsides/weird implications of it to make a fuss) but NOT entirely fine with this proceeding... say so now.
I don't want another New World Alpha situation.
I am fine with it as a testing mechanism
I would be fine with it as an empty zone for large groups to pvp just for kicks
Hell I would be ok with a large island with one pirate hold on it where a single guild or player can be pirate lord and “safely” stockpile their plunder until a rival player dethrones
What I am NOT ok with is another high level zone where “the best” drops are with auto flagging
Why?
Because my first impression of this game(albeit naive) back in 2018 was a game that has amazing pve systems and content where we would be able to use pvp to solve problems.
Someone farming mats you want? Snipe em
Player blocking your path do a dungeon? Slit their throat
Someone flooding the AH with cheap materials? KOS
But this game is leaning more and more towards PvP IS the content, and I know THAT is not a game I will play for very long
And before anyone says it yes I know “this game might be for you”
And trust me I have gone from being a white knight who was literally gathering real life humans to adventure through Vera, to cautiously optimistic, to let’s wait and see.
If it keeps up that pattern, then it’s only a matter of time before I write this game off.
And honestly that is fine, if they decide that is the direction they want to go, but as someone who is excited for so many amazing things intrepid has promised and in my opinion definitely has been delivering on I want to want to play this game for a long long time
*steps down off soap box*
For months, from time to time, I thought about this and after thinking a lot a concluded that:
scaling the war fee is bad for the game
This is because the people who can wardec the entire server should do it for the sake of making more enemies against themselves, however if the fees scale then they will wardec less people and they will absolutely stomp the few enemies they make.
War fee should be flat, but based on members number, the more members you have the more you pay.
I can imagine, I have some friends who kept being highsec miners for years and never tried anything, but then they got attacked on highsec and they joined the militia and started fighting in highsec and lowsec in a daily basis, they also started mining in lowsec and participating in structure fights. They are very happy now, they are still miners tough, but miners who fight
Nowadays in EVE you can even align with the npc pirates, like Guristas and Angels and live in the new region of space, beyond empires. What CCP did is instead of making better AI for the NPCs, they just let people be the official pirates in the game and form a pirate army who only goals are killing, stealing and spreading corruption to achieve the lawless state.
Agreed for the most part.
If they wanna have open pvp areas that's fine but I don't think having areas without corruption penalty will be good for the game. It's kind of like removing the dislike button from youtube. You can't tell anymore who is a baddy and who is friendly..
Another way to put it is, in d and d terms: they just turned on murder hobo mode.
I am sure that if 5% of the planet is lawless it will make ll the carebears whine day and night that they have only 95% of the map for themselves and why not 100% of the map? LOL
Of course this zone shouldn't contain exclusive ressources or items you can't find elsewhere.
At best it could have a better spawn/drop rate or a way to earn exclusive cosmsetics.
I think lawless areas should have normal everything, the only difference is that it's lawless. For sure, this is enough to be a better area for farmers since it won't be crowded and the locals will form strong bonds among themselves and raise an army, it will be awesome
One area i feel would be pointless, i could see akin to node destruction, there could be a area that becomes lawless for some reason.
I love it. Most of my favourite games (that aren't full ffa pvp) have this kind of system and it works great, especially and perhaps necessarily, if there's enough good quality content in the carebear zones. I love me some ffa pvp for high-value items, but sometimes it's nice to just point your mining laser at a high-sec veldspar 'roid and chill out.
Eve, Albion, DAoC, many others follow that model and it creates some very fun gameplay. I loved collecting nullsec loot, then trying to find the safest way to transporr it to highsec. Some of the most fun i've had gaming were 3 way battles in Darkness Falls (a large, full pvpve dungeon in DAoC).
I was very excited when they announced the "black zone" aspect of the oceans, and i'm even more excited that they're going to expand that type of content.
There will be PvPers who focus on farms, sure.
Just because someone is a carebear, doesn't mean they are intolerant of PVP.
I would really like to see an MMORPG official dictionary...lol
Because in my experience Carebear means exactly that someone is intolerant of PvP. That is at least how it is used most frequently in my experience.
Fair.
I'm defining it as someone who avoids it. A peaceful player. Some people don't engage in pvp but may still play games where it can happen.
As an old af aficionado of 80s cartoons, though Carebears are obsessively peaceful and loving, they are more than willing to fight evil when necessary:
"The Care Bears' ultimate weapon is the "Care Bear Stare", in which the collected Bears stand together and radiate light from their respective tummy symbols. These combine to form a ray of love and good cheer which can bring care and joy into the target's heart, break dark spells, or revive something that has been broken, wilted, or messed up"
Heh yeah! It was always a fight with my sister over Carebears versus He-Man. But the power of Grayskull for the win. I pwned her in cartoon PvP silly Carebear that she was.