One thing I simply do not get is people who are upset about this.
You are complaining about an ALPHA. You are not meant to play the game, you are meant to TEST it and provide feedback. Having Alpha be persistent immediately, or next year in May, should make absolutely 0 difference to you, AS A TESTER. It does however make a huge difference to devs, you know, because at this stage of the game, they matter a lot more than you.
If they cannot provide you with something that was promised during this stage, then it's totally normal, for anyone who has a slight clue about development process. Expecting them to meet deadlines, while they're still very much in the middle of developing the game and it's systems, is beyond baffling to me.
If I were Steven, I would never, ever again put a deadline on anything, ever, just because of crybabies online who complain when they cannot meet said deadlines. And for a long time, he didn't want to say when Alpha 2 will happen, because he wanted to avoid situations like these.
Be happy that you get an Alpha 2 this year, because they could've easily pushed it back to May, and maybe then you would've got persistent alpha, except then you would cry about the delay.
I'd be totally supporting the argument if we were talking about a launch, but this is an Alpha. Things change, some deadlines cannot be met due to various reasons.
No, nobody lied to you. Yes, there is a reason they had to push it back.
People that have paid money are absolutely allowed to be upset here. It doesn't matter that we've paid to "test" instead of "play" either. We've invested money into the project and if deadlines are missed then feedback should be provided.
Investors pushing game devs to crunch to fit in their unrealistic timeline expectations?
Now where have I seen this before, and what have gamers always said about those people pushing dev teams to crunch out games despite it harming the overall product?
Nothing that can be said here, that’s for sure.
That isn't what I'm saying. Don't put words in other people's mouths. Also don't reply to something you don't actually understand.
I took the words straight from your post. If you don’t see your own entitlement in it, that’s a You problem
You did not. I never said anything about unrealistic timeline expectations or crunch. You're just dishonest and too dumb to understand what you're reading. That's a You problem.
One thing I simply do not get is people who are upset about this.
You are complaining about an ALPHA. You are not meant to play the game, you are meant to TEST it and provide feedback. Having Alpha be persistent immediately, or next year in May, should make absolutely 0 difference to you, AS A TESTER. It does however make a huge difference to devs, you know, because at this stage of the game, they matter a lot more than you.
If they cannot provide you with something that was promised during this stage, then it's totally normal, for anyone who has a slight clue about development process. Expecting them to meet deadlines, while they're still very much in the middle of developing the game and it's systems, is beyond baffling to me.
If I were Steven, I would never, ever again put a deadline on anything, ever, just because of crybabies online who complain when they cannot meet said deadlines. And for a long time, he didn't want to say when Alpha 2 will happen, because he wanted to avoid situations like these.
Be happy that you get an Alpha 2 this year, because they could've easily pushed it back to May, and maybe then you would've got persistent alpha, except then you would cry about the delay.
I'd be totally supporting the argument if we were talking about a launch, but this is an Alpha. Things change, some deadlines cannot be met due to various reasons.
No, nobody lied to you. Yes, there is a reason they had to push it back.
People that have paid money are absolutely allowed to be upset here. It doesn't matter that we've paid to "test" instead of "play" either. We've invested money into the project and if deadlines are missed then feedback should be provided.
Investors pushing game devs to crunch to fit in their unrealistic timeline expectations?
Now where have I seen this before, and what have gamers always said about those people pushing dev teams to crunch out games despite it harming the overall product?
Nothing that can be said here, that’s for sure.
That isn't what I'm saying. Don't put words in other people's mouths. Also don't reply to something you don't actually understand.
I took the words straight from your post. If you don’t see your own entitlement in it, that’s a You problem
You did not. I never said anything about unrealistic timeline expectations or crunch. You're just dishonest and too dumb to understand what you're reading. That's a You problem.
Hmm yes, surely that’s why so many people have pointed out your entitlement, because they are simply too dumb to understand your superior ways.
Get over yourself. You either came into this development process with reasonable expectations or unreasonable ones, and from how you’re behaving, it’s pretty clear to everyone that you didn’t know what you were signing up for.
One thing I simply do not get is people who are upset about this.
You are complaining about an ALPHA. You are not meant to play the game, you are meant to TEST it and provide feedback. Having Alpha be persistent immediately, or next year in May, should make absolutely 0 difference to you, AS A TESTER. It does however make a huge difference to devs, you know, because at this stage of the game, they matter a lot more than you.
If they cannot provide you with something that was promised during this stage, then it's totally normal, for anyone who has a slight clue about development process. Expecting them to meet deadlines, while they're still very much in the middle of developing the game and it's systems, is beyond baffling to me.
If I were Steven, I would never, ever again put a deadline on anything, ever, just because of crybabies online who complain when they cannot meet said deadlines. And for a long time, he didn't want to say when Alpha 2 will happen, because he wanted to avoid situations like these.
Be happy that you get an Alpha 2 this year, because they could've easily pushed it back to May, and maybe then you would've got persistent alpha, except then you would cry about the delay.
I'd be totally supporting the argument if we were talking about a launch, but this is an Alpha. Things change, some deadlines cannot be met due to various reasons.
No, nobody lied to you. Yes, there is a reason they had to push it back.
People that have paid money are absolutely allowed to be upset here. It doesn't matter that we've paid to "test" instead of "play" either. We've invested money into the project and if deadlines are missed then feedback should be provided.
Investors pushing game devs to crunch to fit in their unrealistic timeline expectations?
Now where have I seen this before, and what have gamers always said about those people pushing dev teams to crunch out games despite it harming the overall product?
Nothing that can be said here, that’s for sure.
That isn't what I'm saying. Don't put words in other people's mouths. Also don't reply to something you don't actually understand.
I took the words straight from your post. If you don’t see your own entitlement in it, that’s a You problem
You did not. I never said anything about unrealistic timeline expectations or crunch. You're just dishonest and too dumb to understand what you're reading. That's a You problem.
Hmm yes, surely that’s why so many people have pointed out your entitlement, because they are simply too dumb to understand your superior ways.
Get over yourself. You either came into this development process with reasonable expectations or unreasonable ones, and from how you’re behaving, it’s pretty clear to everyone that you didn’t know what you were signing up for.
Crazy how @patrick68794 can't take criticism in this kind of situation. And saying the devs need to take criticism (with one of the most terrible points I've ever seen).
One thing I simply do not get is people who are upset about this.
You are complaining about an ALPHA. You are not meant to play the game, you are meant to TEST it and provide feedback. Having Alpha be persistent immediately, or next year in May, should make absolutely 0 difference to you, AS A TESTER. It does however make a huge difference to devs, you know, because at this stage of the game, they matter a lot more than you.
If they cannot provide you with something that was promised during this stage, then it's totally normal, for anyone who has a slight clue about development process. Expecting them to meet deadlines, while they're still very much in the middle of developing the game and it's systems, is beyond baffling to me.
If I were Steven, I would never, ever again put a deadline on anything, ever, just because of crybabies online who complain when they cannot meet said deadlines. And for a long time, he didn't want to say when Alpha 2 will happen, because he wanted to avoid situations like these.
Be happy that you get an Alpha 2 this year, because they could've easily pushed it back to May, and maybe then you would've got persistent alpha, except then you would cry about the delay.
I'd be totally supporting the argument if we were talking about a launch, but this is an Alpha. Things change, some deadlines cannot be met due to various reasons.
No, nobody lied to you. Yes, there is a reason they had to push it back.
People that have paid money are absolutely allowed to be upset here. It doesn't matter that we've paid to "test" instead of "play" either. We've invested money into the project and if deadlines are missed then feedback should be provided.
Investors pushing game devs to crunch to fit in their unrealistic timeline expectations?
Now where have I seen this before, and what have gamers always said about those people pushing dev teams to crunch out games despite it harming the overall product?
Nothing that can be said here, that’s for sure.
That isn't what I'm saying. Don't put words in other people's mouths. Also don't reply to something you don't actually understand.
I took the words straight from your post. If you don’t see your own entitlement in it, that’s a You problem
You did not. I never said anything about unrealistic timeline expectations or crunch. You're just dishonest and too dumb to understand what you're reading. That's a You problem.
Hmm yes, surely that’s why so many people have pointed out your entitlement, because they are simply too dumb to understand your superior ways.
Get over yourself. You either came into this development process with reasonable expectations or unreasonable ones, and from how you’re behaving, it’s pretty clear to everyone that you didn’t know what you were signing up for.
I can't help it if you people are too stupid to understand what's being said and/or are reading things that aren't there into what's being said lol that is 100% on those people, not me.
For the record, and as I've said in this very topic, I'm not upset or surprised by the delay and change in plans. I knew very well what I was signing up for (and I'd bet money that I have a better idea of what I was signing up for than the people trying to say I'm saying things I'm not, since I have a decade of experience in software development and I backed Star Citizen over a decade ago and have been pretty active in helping test that in their PTU, tech preview, and Live environments for years) and personally am perfectly fine with the changes and delays. I'm just pointing out that people that paid money to Intrepid have the right to be upset with the delays and poor communication. It has nothing to do with expecting crunch (they shouldn't) or the people that paid money setting unrealistic deadlines (this doesn't make sense anyway since Intrepid is the one that's been announcing dates and timeframes, the community that's paid hasn't demanded anything except for better communication as far as I've seen).
People upset over there being the probability of resets during alpha or even potentially beta testing are merely concerned with playing the game as opposed to the well being of development through actually testing, and individuals whose main priority is playing instead of testing/development should be given the least amount of consideration during this phase of the game. Simple as.
Alpha isnt about persistent content. Its about testing and improving content, even if it means having to reset things.
People upset over there being the probability of resets during alpha or even potentially beta testing are merely concerned with playing the game as opposed to the well being of development through actually testing, and individuals whose main priority is playing instead of testing/development should be given the least amount of consideration during this phase of the game. Simple as.
Alpha isnt about persistent content. Its about testing and improving content, even if it means having to reset things.
It's really about both ultimately, but yeah phase 1 at least is going to be mostly focused on stability and performance (that said, character progression is also part of the testing focus for phase 1 so there will be some level of focus from Intrepid on persistence, though I would expect issues will be found with progression in general that will also necessitate resets/wipes). I would expect a lot of focus testing around specific content, progression, and mechanics to be part of the norm in phases 2 and 3 as well once the servers are somewhat stable and reliable.
People upset over there being the probability of resets during alpha or even potentially beta testing are merely concerned with playing the game as opposed to the well being of development through actually testing, and individuals whose main priority is playing instead of testing/development should be given the least amount of consideration during this phase of the game. Simple as.
Alpha isnt about persistent content. Its about testing and improving content, even if it means having to reset things.
Good god were there actually people thinking there wouldn’t be any wipes during Alpha2? That’s just bizarre to me that anyone could miss the mark that badly as to what this phase of the development process is actually about.
Seems odd to be upset at this. MMOs are never on time. Most people thought A2 would be pushed back to some time in 2025. I find it a pleasant surprise its even showing at all in 2024. If you are following an MMO, there is one rule. Never expect anything on time.
4
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I already provided good arguments. The people that paid have every right to be upset at the constant missed deadlines and changing plans and Intrepid is not above hearing negative feedback from those people. Saying "that's software development" and just dismissing the actual problem shows complete ignorance about how professional software development works just as much as people complaining the first time a deadline was missed.
One thing you can bank on in game development is that "deadlines" will be missed.
It's actually one of the first things gamers learn when they actually join a game dev team - if they didn't learn it already by following several games in early development.
I don't know how it works for other types of software development...
But in video game development, really, the expectation should be that any date will be missed.
And I'm saying that having spent 10 years in game development.
"Better communication" rarely works out well for devs in game development.
That's probably the 2nd thing gamers learn when they actually join a dev team.
Which is why you Steven, over time, move from "We are going to be completely transparent and communicate EVERYTHING!" to "Um. I think it's probably best if we're a litle bit more opaque - but we still aim to be more communicative than any previous MMO dev team."
Is no one else disappointed that "Persistent Alpha" AKA 24/7 Alpha 2 access isn't until May 2025 ?
Of Course it is a bit disappointing that it feels like we are getting cucked into waiting yet again somehow,
but on the other Hand it is not a Surprise by all means - > when we consider how insanely long we are allowed to wait in the first Place. Good things always take a while - and dear Sir Steven and his mighty Crew try nothing else than to create the Crown and the Peak of all current MMO's out there since Years.
I am - (i think?!) - aware, that the Main Time why all of this has taken so long until now - > is the Development of the mighty Server-Engine itself. The One which shall allow HUNDREDS OF PLAYERS to play/fight each other in relatively close Proximity towards each other,
without ridiculous Frame-incursions and Disconnects.
Sure. To complete create such a MASSIVE Open World also takes some time -> even if dear Intrepid has shown us that they have nice Tools and Programms to be able to quickly create Landscapes and so on. But of Course all these many Quests which will hopefully fill those Landscapes must be programmed as well ... ...
The only true Disappointment right now is - > it was said there are already around +120.000(!!!) Testers ready to go, right ?
So i heard there are like " Nine " (lol) Servers planned for the Beginning of Alpha Two ? And each one is supposed to be able to hold/house 3.000 Players first ?
This is a Maximum of 27.000 Players if my Math isn't off, now isn't it ?
Yes it was said they want to add new Servers in Case there won't be enough -> but there won't be enough even on Day One if just enough People plan to storm the Test-Servers. so the estimated/feared +11 Hours Waiting Ques WILL definitely come.
And then Disconnects during these waiting Ques or after logging into the Alpha for a Minute or Two -> and then the People affected are back to Square One.
Maybe we should just find our Peace with the fact that we will probably not get to find Bugs and help out testing before our lovely, lovely dear Winter Solstice around the 20th December. .
Maybe i am just to pessimistic. But daaaymn i would already be satisfied with the Character Editor. Dear Intrepid SHOULD in any Case do something like Weekly Contests of who creates the most cool or pretty looking Characters or something.
Or eccentric looking Characters ?
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
I already provided good arguments. The people that paid have every right to be upset at the constant missed deadlines and changing plans and Intrepid is not above hearing negative feedback from those people. Saying "that's software development" and just dismissing the actual problem shows complete ignorance about how professional software development works just as much as people complaining the first time a deadline was missed.
One thing you can bank on in game development is that "deadlines" will be missed.
It's actually one of the first things gamers learn when they actually join a game dev team - if they didn't learn it already by following several games in early development.
I don't know how it works for other types of software development...
But in video game development, really, the expectation should be that any date will be missed.
And I'm saying that having spent 10 years in game development.
"Better communication" rarely works out well for devs in game development.
That's probably the 2nd thing gamers learn when they actually join a dev team.
Which is why you Steven, over time, move from "We are going to be completely transparent and communicate EVERYTHING!" to "Um. I think it's probably best if we're a litle bit more opaque - but we still aim to be more communicative than any previous MMO dev team."
It's the same in software development in general, to an extent. At some point you have to stop missing every single date you provide to your customers and deliver something. Eventually delays point to a deeper issue than just "it's development, this is to be expected" and the customer(s) have every right to be upset. Game development is ultimately no different.
In regards to communication my issue is that they're not communicating more often or more transparently than other crowdfunded devs, despite trying to say they are. CIG as the most prominent example is better at communication, both in terms of frequency and transparency. Other studios like Frontier, Skymill (the developers for Kindred Fates), Once Lost Games (developers for Wayward Realms), and Novaquark (the developer for Dual Universe) provide communication at least on par with and even beyond what Intrepid has been providing. Even some of the people that are purposely misconstruing what I've said in what appears to be an attempt to defend Intrepid (when they don't need defending and have even said they don't want people doing this) have admitted to poor communication on Intrepid's part.
Regardless, I've said my piece here and am done talking about this. People are going to just continue misinterpreting what I've said, probably intentionally, and saying that I'm saying things that I haven't because I'm providing a different viewpoint that upsets them.
I already provided good arguments. The people that paid have every right to be upset at the constant missed deadlines and changing plans and Intrepid is not above hearing negative feedback from those people. Saying "that's software development" and just dismissing the actual problem shows complete ignorance about how professional software development works just as much as people complaining the first time a deadline was missed.
One thing you can bank on in game development is that "deadlines" will be missed.
It's actually one of the first things gamers learn when they actually join a game dev team - if they didn't learn it already by following several games in early development.
I don't know how it works for other types of software development...
But in video game development, really, the expectation should be that any date will be missed.
And I'm saying that having spent 10 years in game development.
"Better communication" rarely works out well for devs in game development.
That's probably the 2nd thing gamers learn when they actually join a dev team.
Which is why you Steven, over time, move from "We are going to be completely transparent and communicate EVERYTHING!" to "Um. I think it's probably best if we're a litle bit more opaque - but we still aim to be more communicative than any previous MMO dev team."
It's the same in software development in general, to an extent. At some point you have to stop missing every single date you provide to your customers and deliver something. Eventually delays point to a deeper issue than just "it's development, this is to be expected" and the customer(s) have every right to be upset. Game development is ultimately no different.
In regards to communication my issue is that they're not communicating more often or more transparently than other crowdfunded devs, despite trying to say they are. CIG as the most prominent example is better at communication, both in terms of frequency and transparency. Other studios like Frontier, Skymill (the developers for Kindred Fates), Once Lost Games (developers for Wayward Realms), and Novaquark (the developer for Dual Universe) provide communication at least on par with and even beyond what Intrepid has been providing. Even some of the people that are purposely misconstruing what I've said in what appears to be an attempt to defend Intrepid (when they don't need defending and have even said they don't want people doing this) have admitted to poor communication on Intrepid's part.
Regardless, I've said my piece here and am done talking about this. People are going to just continue misinterpreting what I've said, probably intentionally, and saying that I'm saying things that I haven't because I'm providing a different viewpoint that upsets them.
I'm looking at one of these games and the scope is 10000* smaller and thier amount of videos they posted isn't even close to AoC if you are looking at their timeline lmao.
This guy is having worse and worse takes, pretty much he is trying to use the transparency point on devs tell everything single details when that is not the point of transparency. ITs about showing the game before release and getting feedback on it so everyone knows exactly what they will be getter.
Like i know i said this before but the level if entitlement patrick has is honestly astonishing. This is high level entitlement privilege at this point. He out here like if i don't know the full development time like, all details about the game including unfinished parts, and they aren't making it so i can play the alpha 24/7 at the very start of it just cause they are aren't being transparent"
This si wild that we one of of the most fair roadmaps (that is subject to change) with DATE. And this guy is out here putting this MUCH EFFORT into trying to say they aren't being transparent. Like what the actual....f.....entitlement.
It's the same in software development in general, to an extent. At some point you have to stop missing every single date you provide to your customers and deliver something. Eventually delays point to a deeper issue than just "it's development, this is to be expected" and the customer(s) have every right to be upset. Game development is ultimately no different.
I'm not sure what this is intended to mean.
Game development schedules will always have delays. "Customers" being upset is not going to change that.
Not having a delay should be treated like a very rare "miracle".
In the most recent case, Ashes appears to be set to deliver something.
A2 Spot Testing has begun in Q3. A2 Testing apparently will be delayed by about one month. And that's pretty could for a target date that was given 6 months in advance.
In regards to communication my issue is that they're not communicating more often or more transparently than other crowdfunded devs, despite trying to say they are. CIG as the most prominent example is better at communication, both in terms of frequency and transparency. Other studios like Frontier, Skymill (the developers for Kindred Fates), Once Lost Games (developers for Wayward Realms), and Novaquark (the developer for Dual Universe) provide communication at least on par with and even beyond what Intrepid has been providing. Even some of the people that are purposely misconstruing what I've said in what appears to be an attempt to defend Intrepid (when they don't need defending and have even said they don't want people doing this) have admitted to poor communication on Intrepid's part.
Who claimed that Intrepid has the best communication??
Regardless, I've said my piece here and am done talking about this. People are going to just continue misinterpreting what I've said, probably intentionally, and saying that I'm saying things that I haven't because I'm providing a different viewpoint that upsets them.
I guess that's an indication that your communication isn't very clear??
It's the same in software development in general, to an extent. At some point you have to stop missing every single date you provide to your customers and deliver something. Eventually delays point to a deeper issue than just "it's development, this is to be expected" and the customer(s) have every right to be upset. Game development is ultimately no different.
I'm not sure what this is intended to mean.
Game development schedules will always have delays. "Customers" being upset is not going to change that.
Not having a delay should be treated like a very rare "miracle".
In the most recent case, Ashes appears to be set to deliver something.
A2 Spot Testing has begun in Q3. A2 Testing apparently will be delayed by about one month. And that's pretty could for a target date that was given 6 months in advance.
In regards to communication my issue is that they're not communicating more often or more transparently than other crowdfunded devs, despite trying to say they are. CIG as the most prominent example is better at communication, both in terms of frequency and transparency. Other studios like Frontier, Skymill (the developers for Kindred Fates), Once Lost Games (developers for Wayward Realms), and Novaquark (the developer for Dual Universe) provide communication at least on par with and even beyond what Intrepid has been providing. Even some of the people that are purposely misconstruing what I've said in what appears to be an attempt to defend Intrepid (when they don't need defending and have even said they don't want people doing this) have admitted to poor communication on Intrepid's part.
Who claimed that Intrepid has the best communication??
Regardless, I've said my piece here and am done talking about this. People are going to just continue misinterpreting what I've said, probably intentionally, and saying that I'm saying things that I haven't because I'm providing a different viewpoint that upsets them.
I guess that's an indication that your communication isn't very clear??
Final word on this since you seem incapable of grasping a very simple concept. It all boils down to this:
People that have paid are allowed to be upset at the numerous delays and the poor communication surrounding those delays. Their feedback about that is valid and Intrepid should be listening to them, even if they ultimately decide not to make any changes based on that feedback. Intrepid doesn't want people senselessly defending them or insulting other people for providing criticism either.
Now you can take whatever intentional misinterpretation of that that you want and go to town with it. If you want to think I'm upset personally then go right ahead. If you want to think that I don't know how development works go right ahead. Just know that you'll continue being wrong, just like the other people that have made the same idiotic, baseless assumptions. I'm done discussing this.
It's the same in software development in general, to an extent. At some point you have to stop missing every single date you provide to your customers and deliver something. Eventually delays point to a deeper issue than just "it's development, this is to be expected" and the customer(s) have every right to be upset. Game development is ultimately no different.
I'm not sure what this is intended to mean.
Game development schedules will always have delays. "Customers" being upset is not going to change that.
Not having a delay should be treated like a very rare "miracle".
In the most recent case, Ashes appears to be set to deliver something.
A2 Spot Testing has begun in Q3. A2 Testing apparently will be delayed by about one month. And that's pretty could for a target date that was given 6 months in advance.
In regards to communication my issue is that they're not communicating more often or more transparently than other crowdfunded devs, despite trying to say they are. CIG as the most prominent example is better at communication, both in terms of frequency and transparency. Other studios like Frontier, Skymill (the developers for Kindred Fates), Once Lost Games (developers for Wayward Realms), and Novaquark (the developer for Dual Universe) provide communication at least on par with and even beyond what Intrepid has been providing. Even some of the people that are purposely misconstruing what I've said in what appears to be an attempt to defend Intrepid (when they don't need defending and have even said they don't want people doing this) have admitted to poor communication on Intrepid's part.
Who claimed that Intrepid has the best communication??
Regardless, I've said my piece here and am done talking about this. People are going to just continue misinterpreting what I've said, probably intentionally, and saying that I'm saying things that I haven't because I'm providing a different viewpoint that upsets them.
I guess that's an indication that your communication isn't very clear??
Final word on this since you seem incapable of grasping a very simple concept. It all boils down to this:
People that have paid are allowed to be upset at the numerous delays and the poor communication surrounding those delays. Their feedback about that is valid and Intrepid should be listening to them, even if they ultimately decide not to make any changes based on that feedback. Intrepid doesn't want people senselessly defending them or insulting other people for providing criticism either.
Now you can take whatever intentional misinterpretation of that that you want and go to town with it. If you want to think I'm upset personally then go right ahead. If you want to think that I don't know how development works go right ahead. Just know that you'll continue being wrong, just like the other people that have made the same idiotic, baseless assumptions. I'm done discussing this.
Last i checked A2 is coming out in october its not that much of a delay.
Crazy how they are being transparent giving dates though knowing with development and all those dates could get pushed back.
I'VE said it before, people can not handle an alpha development. Doesnt matter if u spend 30 minutes telling people this is alpha, etc. People still going to think early access and defy all logic and ignore the words alpha in their own mind. Most people dont understand development and will always think of it as a game being released.
People that have paid are allowed to be upset at the numerous delays and the poor communication surrounding those delays.
People are allowed to be upset about anything.
Being upset about delays is irrelevant. Being upset about poor communication is probably irrelevant as well.
Their feedback about that is valid and Intrepid should be listening to them, even if they ultimately decide not to make any changes based on that feedback. Intrepid doesn't want people senselessly defending them or insulting other people for providing criticism either.
Feedback might be valid, but...
Game devs used to be gamers, too. Especially for Intrepid, Steven pretty much only hires gamers with MMORPG dev experience, specifically. Just because they listen and sympathize does not mean they are able to accommodate gamers' hopium.
Not sharing your entire perspective is not the same thing as senseless defense.
Now you can take whatever intentional misinterpretation of that that you want and go to town with it. If you want to think I'm upset personally then go right ahead. If you want to think that I don't know how development works go right ahead. Just know that you'll continue being wrong, just like the other people that have made the same idiotic, baseless assumptions. I'm done discussing this.
Apparently, you have not worked in game development, specifically.
If I'm mistaken, please share a couple of video games you have successfully released.
"I'm not personally upset... just the people who disagree with me are wrong, idiotic and making baseless assumptions, so I'm out! QQ"
Bye, Felicia.
I think my only real concern was that there would be fewer days in a week when I could just login and look/test something since weekends can get crowded with commitments. That goes away next Spring '25 but I think that was the real core of my disappointment since I have more free time in the winter season then any other time of the year.
I think my only real concern was that there would be fewer days in a week when I could just login and look/test something since weekends can get crowded with commitments. That goes away next Spring '25 but I think that was the real core of my disappointment since I have more free time in the winter season then any other time of the year.
But the main core of winter is 5 days a week with A2 (unless delays)?
Comments
You did not. I never said anything about unrealistic timeline expectations or crunch. You're just dishonest and too dumb to understand what you're reading. That's a You problem.
Hmm yes, surely that’s why so many people have pointed out your entitlement, because they are simply too dumb to understand your superior ways.
Get over yourself. You either came into this development process with reasonable expectations or unreasonable ones, and from how you’re behaving, it’s pretty clear to everyone that you didn’t know what you were signing up for.
Crazy how @patrick68794 can't take criticism in this kind of situation. And saying the devs need to take criticism (with one of the most terrible points I've ever seen).
I can't help it if you people are too stupid to understand what's being said and/or are reading things that aren't there into what's being said lol that is 100% on those people, not me.
For the record, and as I've said in this very topic, I'm not upset or surprised by the delay and change in plans. I knew very well what I was signing up for (and I'd bet money that I have a better idea of what I was signing up for than the people trying to say I'm saying things I'm not, since I have a decade of experience in software development and I backed Star Citizen over a decade ago and have been pretty active in helping test that in their PTU, tech preview, and Live environments for years) and personally am perfectly fine with the changes and delays. I'm just pointing out that people that paid money to Intrepid have the right to be upset with the delays and poor communication. It has nothing to do with expecting crunch (they shouldn't) or the people that paid money setting unrealistic deadlines (this doesn't make sense anyway since Intrepid is the one that's been announcing dates and timeframes, the community that's paid hasn't demanded anything except for better communication as far as I've seen).
Alpha isnt about persistent content. Its about testing and improving content, even if it means having to reset things.
Good god were there actually people thinking there wouldn’t be any wipes during Alpha2? That’s just bizarre to me that anyone could miss the mark that badly as to what this phase of the development process is actually about.
It's actually one of the first things gamers learn when they actually join a game dev team - if they didn't learn it already by following several games in early development.
I don't know how it works for other types of software development...
But in video game development, really, the expectation should be that any date will be missed.
And I'm saying that having spent 10 years in game development.
"Better communication" rarely works out well for devs in game development.
That's probably the 2nd thing gamers learn when they actually join a dev team.
Which is why you Steven, over time, move from "We are going to be completely transparent and communicate EVERYTHING!" to "Um. I think it's probably best if we're a litle bit more opaque - but we still aim to be more communicative than any previous MMO dev team."
Of Course it is a bit disappointing that it feels like we are getting cucked into waiting yet again somehow,
but on the other Hand it is not a Surprise by all means - > when we consider how insanely long we are allowed to wait in the first Place. Good things always take a while - and dear Sir Steven and his mighty Crew try nothing else than to create the Crown and the Peak of all current MMO's out there since Years.
I am - (i think?!) - aware, that the Main Time why all of this has taken so long until now - > is the Development of the mighty Server-Engine itself. The One which shall allow HUNDREDS OF PLAYERS to play/fight each other in relatively close Proximity towards each other,
without ridiculous Frame-incursions and Disconnects.
Sure. To complete create such a MASSIVE Open World also takes some time -> even if dear Intrepid has shown us that they have nice Tools and Programms to be able to quickly create Landscapes and so on. But of Course all these many Quests which will hopefully fill those Landscapes must be programmed as well ... ...
The only true Disappointment right now is - > it was said there are already around +120.000(!!!) Testers ready to go, right ?
So i heard there are like " Nine " (lol) Servers planned for the Beginning of Alpha Two ? And each one is supposed to be able to hold/house 3.000 Players first ?
This is a Maximum of 27.000 Players if my Math isn't off, now isn't it ?
Yes it was said they want to add new Servers in Case there won't be enough -> but there won't be enough even on Day One if just enough People plan to storm the Test-Servers.
And then Disconnects during these waiting Ques or after logging into the Alpha for a Minute or Two -> and then the People affected are back to Square One.
Maybe we should just find our Peace with the fact that we will probably not get to find Bugs and help out testing before our lovely, lovely dear Winter Solstice around the 20th December.
Maybe i am just to pessimistic. But daaaymn i would already be satisfied with the Character Editor. Dear Intrepid SHOULD in any Case do something like Weekly Contests of who creates the most cool or pretty looking Characters or something.
Or eccentric looking Characters ?
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
It's the same in software development in general, to an extent. At some point you have to stop missing every single date you provide to your customers and deliver something. Eventually delays point to a deeper issue than just "it's development, this is to be expected" and the customer(s) have every right to be upset. Game development is ultimately no different.
In regards to communication my issue is that they're not communicating more often or more transparently than other crowdfunded devs, despite trying to say they are. CIG as the most prominent example is better at communication, both in terms of frequency and transparency. Other studios like Frontier, Skymill (the developers for Kindred Fates), Once Lost Games (developers for Wayward Realms), and Novaquark (the developer for Dual Universe) provide communication at least on par with and even beyond what Intrepid has been providing. Even some of the people that are purposely misconstruing what I've said in what appears to be an attempt to defend Intrepid (when they don't need defending and have even said they don't want people doing this) have admitted to poor communication on Intrepid's part.
Regardless, I've said my piece here and am done talking about this. People are going to just continue misinterpreting what I've said, probably intentionally, and saying that I'm saying things that I haven't because I'm providing a different viewpoint that upsets them.
I'm looking at one of these games and the scope is 10000* smaller and thier amount of videos they posted isn't even close to AoC if you are looking at their timeline lmao.
https://www.youtube.com/@SkymillStudios/videos
https://www.youtube.com/@OnceLostGames/videos
This guy is having worse and worse takes, pretty much he is trying to use the transparency point on devs tell everything single details when that is not the point of transparency. ITs about showing the game before release and getting feedback on it so everyone knows exactly what they will be getter.
Like i know i said this before but the level if entitlement patrick has is honestly astonishing. This is high level entitlement privilege at this point. He out here like if i don't know the full development time like, all details about the game including unfinished parts, and they aren't making it so i can play the alpha 24/7 at the very start of it just cause they are aren't being transparent"
This si wild that we one of of the most fair roadmaps (that is subject to change) with DATE. And this guy is out here putting this MUCH EFFORT into trying to say they aren't being transparent. Like what the actual....f.....entitlement.
Game development schedules will always have delays. "Customers" being upset is not going to change that.
Not having a delay should be treated like a very rare "miracle".
In the most recent case, Ashes appears to be set to deliver something.
A2 Spot Testing has begun in Q3. A2 Testing apparently will be delayed by about one month. And that's pretty could for a target date that was given 6 months in advance.
Who claimed that Intrepid has the best communication??
I guess that's an indication that your communication isn't very clear??
People that have paid are allowed to be upset at the numerous delays and the poor communication surrounding those delays. Their feedback about that is valid and Intrepid should be listening to them, even if they ultimately decide not to make any changes based on that feedback. Intrepid doesn't want people senselessly defending them or insulting other people for providing criticism either.
Now you can take whatever intentional misinterpretation of that that you want and go to town with it. If you want to think I'm upset personally then go right ahead. If you want to think that I don't know how development works go right ahead. Just know that you'll continue being wrong, just like the other people that have made the same idiotic, baseless assumptions. I'm done discussing this.
Last i checked A2 is coming out in october its not that much of a delay.
Crazy how they are being transparent giving dates though knowing with development and all those dates could get pushed back.
I'VE said it before, people can not handle an alpha development. Doesnt matter if u spend 30 minutes telling people this is alpha, etc. People still going to think early access and defy all logic and ignore the words alpha in their own mind. Most people dont understand development and will always think of it as a game being released.
Being upset about delays is irrelevant. Being upset about poor communication is probably irrelevant as well.
Feedback might be valid, but...
Game devs used to be gamers, too. Especially for Intrepid, Steven pretty much only hires gamers with MMORPG dev experience, specifically. Just because they listen and sympathize does not mean they are able to accommodate gamers' hopium.
Not sharing your entire perspective is not the same thing as senseless defense.
Apparently, you have not worked in game development, specifically.
If I'm mistaken, please share a couple of video games you have successfully released.
"I'm not personally upset... just the people who disagree with me are wrong, idiotic and making baseless assumptions, so I'm out! QQ"
Bye, Felicia.
But the main core of winter is 5 days a week with A2 (unless delays)?