PVE: be mindful of people farming mobs with AoEs (or range) and avoiding damage. Figure out a way to make sure mobs do not give credit/loot/xp if they are unable to attack their aggressor.
PVP: Please restrict beneficial AoEs to players who are GROUPED.
Similarly, damage AoE should hit ALL pvp engaged targets (not grouped) unless specifically designed to hit a limited number of targets.
AoE abilities should not be âsmartâ and ignore allies/guildmates who are part of the zerg but not part of the group.
Good AoE design can be an antizerg mechanic and allow smaller, more organized, groups to âpunch upâ.
as a warhammer online player on return of reckoning and a vanilla wow player i think these games did it the best. especially warhammer online as you have mass pvp battles its visible with the animations but for yourself it has some extra effect in it.
this way you can see what skill they use but its not overwhelming that you can not see whats going on in the world amymore.
i think that every class should have atleast like 1 aoe while some classes shine with aoe.
in warhammer online guilds and pugs roam the rvr zone that has a couple of battlefield objectives i suppose somewhat the same as nodes but a way smaller degree as its just a flag you capture like arathi basin in wow.
each guild or pug can have up to 40 memebers in it and they fight for the bo and aoe is really good for this but again its animations shouldnt block the screen but be visible
AoE in PvP (Player vs. Player):
- Players should be visually notified when they are being targeted by an AoE ability.
- Visual cues help players avoid or counter AoEs using defensive abilities or utilities.
Clarity of AoEs for Enemy and Friendly Players:
- For enemies: AoEs should be clear enough to allow skilled players the chance to avoid or counter the ability.
- For allies: AoEs should be clear for friendly players to coordinate, stack abilities, or focus damage on an area or enemy.
- Balance: Visual effects should be clear but not overwhelming, avoiding too many distracting flashes or lighting effects that impair vision.
AoE in PvE (Player vs. Environment):
- Similar principles of clarity likely apply.
Examples from Other Games:
- Some games allow settings to toggle AoE visibility for players or enemies, especially in large battles (e.g., 100v100).
- The option to adjust or turn off spell effects for better visual clarity is valued in high-intensity combat scenarios.
Key Points:
- Visual telegraphing is essential for skill-based combat.
- Clarity is crucial for both enemy and ally coordination.
- Optional settings to control AoE visibility are appreciated in large-scale battles or raids.
This is based on my own opinion I just hope the game will be great and will have its own take or spin on things but also keep things relevant. Really looking forwards to playing and Iâm sure it will be a success đđŒ
1
KrystalKittenMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Area of Effect (AoE) abilities are a common staple in MMORPG combat. Weâre curious to know what your thoughts are on AoE abilities and the way theyâre displayed.
I do like AOEs but I dislike how they get to be a "MY EYES!!! THEY BURN!!!!" as the screen gets lit up with constant AOE animations. Yes AOEs need to be beautiful to look at in an individual level but maybe if multiple casters are casting the same spell, their magics get intertwined and a just more powerful animation happens instead?
In PvP, which Area of Effect (AoE) abilities, should be telegraphed to enemies?
in PVP the ONLY telegraph maybe should be the spell windup, have them see a different spell circle for individual vs AOE spell and you have to pay attention to what they are doing, or maybe an audio que but not a circle on the ground or AOE targeting that shows where/when it goes off like PVE. PVP needs to be as minimal give away as possible
How clearly should AoEs be to enemy and friendly players? To the enemy? you never see it coming, to friendly players, you have a timer and see where it is being used, that way you can synchronize your spells to be different places and hit different people
Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting? Obviously yes, in a PVE setting you should be able to see the spell effect area to have a chance to get out of the way, because in a PVE setting the goal is your group vs the boss and no one else, the boss itself even with the AOE effect ques should be hard to accomplish just like any other MMO
Do you have examples from other games in which AoE abilities are presented in a way you like? If so, please share them!
I like the FFXIV way they do things with the boss AOE mechanics. I do not like the multiple player AOE "light up my screen and burn my eyes" thought, just the boss mechanics AOEs
1
ZekethephoenixMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Honestly the easiest to sum up for my opinion is to copy/innovate on games like Wildstar where the aoes are mostly telegraph shapes sticking out the front of your character circle at your feet.
Whatever spell they tossed had a specific shape telegraphed on the ground. You could adjust the brightness and whether the floor was filled in or just an outline via an opacity slider.
Everything from pvp or pve had clear telegraphs. In PVP mass fights it would get chaotic with telegraph cones everywhere but that was kinda the point, "you are in danger in those cones and lines, so use your roll to get out."
Wildstar was a more technic themed game so the telegraphs made sense thematically. Ashes would probably have to have them be various types of magic circles\lines\cones\squares that could be adjusted in kind.
I think having options for those kind of telegraph settings is the best bet. Give the people who just wanna see just abilities but no telegraphs and the people who want them to be visible and clear what you're getting hit by.
AOE Mechanics: The Importance of Telegraphing in PvP and PvX Environments
Alliterating further from my previous thoughts, I believe visual cues are crucial for creating a competitive and balanced environment, especially in PvP and PvX scenarios. No one enjoys being sniped or obliterated by an ability they never saw coming or had a chance to react to. While Iâm not suggesting we need exaggerated cones or bright triangles on the ground, there should be some form of visual and audio awareness that players can pick up on.
Take, for example, a giant fireball or meteorite dropping on your head that deals massive damage without any warningâwhere's the fun in that? Players should have the opportunity to use defensive abilities, either individually or through group coordination, to mitigate or counter such attacks. If it's impossible to move out of the way in time, there should at least be a chance to react. Without that possibility, the encounter becomes frustrating rather than challenging.
Imagine the caster of that fireball having a visual wind-up: perhaps spinning their staff around their head, flames surrounding them, or even a fire circle appearing on the ground where they aim, with smoke rising as a signal. Audio cues could further complement this, like the rippling sound of flames in the air. Magic circles or elemental effects that blend into the game world can make telegraphing more immersive without being jarring or artificial.
Big, hard-hitting abilities should come with clear visual wind-ups and subtle follow-up cues. One issue with many games today is the pacingâabilities are cast at breakneck speed, turning combat into a flurry of spell-slinging with little to no weight behind each attack. This not only diminishes the tactical depth of the fight but also makes encounters feel repetitive, reducing combat to a button-mashing affair. Players need time to execute their rotations, react, and engage in the back-and-forth of a good skirmish, rather than being instantly deleted by an unseen ability.
Whatâs needed are visual cues that arenât overly flashy or intrusiveâno fake flashing lights or unnatural effects. These cues should feel like an organic part of the game world. For instance, a mage using an earth-based ability could have a wind-up where they slam their staff into the ground, causing cracks to form before the earth breaks open and the attack strikes. These are just a few examples, but the essence is that telegraphing should be integrated naturally to enhance gameplay and give players a fair chance to react without sacrificing immersion.
Area of Effect (AoE) abilities are a common staple in MMORPG combat. Weâre curious to know what your thoughts are on AoE abilities and the way theyâre displayed.
I don't quite understand what I should write here. I think I have some thoughts about displaying AOE on enemies/myself. I think if you are under the effect of an enemy AOE, then your screen should display a Fade effect according to the element of this AOE. That is, if you are set on fire by a pillar of fire, then the edges of the screen should turn red and look like a fire animation. If frozen, then blue and ice. I think this way you should immediately understand that you need to run out of the AOE. Also, you should draw a visible circle on the ground where the AOE ends, to understand whether to use blink or take a step to get out of it.
In PvP, which Area of Effect (AoE) abilities, should be telegraphed to enemies?
I think all of them. I don't know if hunter traps are standard AoE, but I think they need to be shown, but not focused on. That is, it should still be a trap, but there shouldn't be a specific circle around it.
I think I described everything else above.
I think friendly AoE healing abilities can be left unseen by enemies. But buff AoE abilities that work in the "dome" should be shown to enemies so that they understand whether you are under any protection in a specific area
How clearly should AoEs be to enemy and friendly players?
I think only the borders of this AoE should be clear. All other animations of freezing rain, burning field, and the rest should not distract from what is happening around. It should not distract the attention of players.
Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting?
I think AOE is an integral part of PVE. we should have pve compositions for a more efficient way to farm mobs in the world. npc enemies should also use AOE for more interesting fights.
Do you have examples from other games in which AoE abilities are presented in a way you like? If so, please share them!
there are many ideas, as well as a concept:
One of the concepts of AOE is damage escalation: the more enemies (pvp) your AOE hits, the more damage it should do. 1 player - 100% damage, 2 players - 105%, 5 players - 125%, 10 players - 150%. This could be configured differently for different abilities, because there are those for which it would be very strong (chain abilities should increase damage much less)
///
chain is an ability that needs to be cast for several seconds to maintain existence.
cast is an ability that has a casttime, and leaves a field on the floor for X seconds
I think there can be a lot of ideas for damage dealers, but I am most focused on AOE support and control.
AOE ability ideas:
- Silince area (cast 0.4sec)(for tanks) - create an area 3 meters wide in which you can't use the ability, which lasts 6 seconds and slows down enemies inside by 30%.
- Ring of energy (cast 0sec)(for tanks) - create a ring 20 meters long and 1 meter thick, which slows down by 80% those who enter, which lasts 4 seconds
- Curse field (chain 5secs)(someone) - create an area 5 meters wide in which 1 enemy buff will be destroyed every second
- Dome of protection (cast or chain5sec) - create a dome 16 meters wide giving protection to all players inside (or up to 20 players inside)
- Time stop (cast 0sec) - in an area 5 meters wide, time freezes for 3 seconds. Players/NPCs frozen in time are invulnerable, cannot move and use abilities. after use, a debuff appears on players that does not allow another TimeStop to be used on them
- rune of protection (cast 1sec) - creates an area 6 meters wide for 9 seconds, giving invulnerability to types of control: slowdown, knockback, and timestop.
- protective barrier (chain 5sec) - creates a dome in front of itself for 5 seconds, 4 meters wide, which pushes all players who touch it back 12 meters
- barrier wall (cast 1sec) - creates protection 5 meters wide existing 5 seconds, which pushes all players who touch it back 12 meters
We opened a thread in our community once more and asked the questions.
General answers:
- Area of Effect (AoE) abilities are a common staple in MMORPG combat. Weâre curious to know what your thoughts are on AoE abilities and the way theyâre displayed.
Have a different vfx to differentiate friendly and enemy AoE
Have a difference between DoT AoE's and nuke AoE, visibility wise
- In PvP, which Area of Effect (AoE) abilities, should be telegraphed to enemies?
Have big spells/AoE's be telegraphed before they land, ie a meteor or huge blizzard.
- How clearly should AoEs be to enemy and friendly players?
Across the board agreed it should be very clear.
- Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting?
No, people wanted it to be as clear as possible there as well. With perhaps some vfx culling.
- Do you have examples from other games in which AoE abilities are presented in a way you like? If so, please share them!
Albion online. Ragnarok Online.
Area of Effect (AoE) abilities are a common staple in MMORPG combat. Weâre curious to know what your thoughts are on AoE abilities and the way theyâre displayed.
I agree AoEâs are a common staple in MMORGP combat. The real question is, does Intrepid want common abilities in their game. I personally would prefer less damage AoE abilities in-game. And the ones that make it should be innovative in some way.
If Intrepid gets 200v200 avatars firing off AoE abilities, in the same space, it's going to look like a Jackson Pollock painting pasted over your monitor in short order. I suggest moderation with the Fx. I saw your Bard cameo. I thought it looked pretty good by itself, but during the PvE run the squad started to clutter up the screen, Also the AoE radius was way too large for some of those skills.
In PvP, which Area of Effect (AoE) abilities, should be telegraphed to enemies?
Iâm assuming there are animations for skills and a damage log? This should be enough for players to figure out what is killing them or locking them down. Not to mention most everyone is going to alt out and experience most of the classes from the user position. However I am not opposed to baking tells into the class animations.
How clearly should AoEs be to enemy and friendly players?
Iâd have to play your game before I could answer this question. Iâm Alpha 2
Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting?
I don't have an opinion on PvE
Do you have examples from other games in which AoE abilities are presented in a way you like? If so, please share them!
ArtCraft had this very same discussion for Crowfall during their early Pre-Alpha phase of development, it was clear that hardcore PvP constituents wanted less AoE, less FX spam, and better performance. And everybody else wanted flashing lights, bells and whistles, buzzers, and glitter. ArtCraft leaned into the special effects because they felt like the sensory stimulation would put âButts In Seatsâ and the glitter would grab the attention of potential customers/subscriptions. So we ended up with more glitter than the early player base wanted, however they did some things right with hard counter abilities, caps, and immunities, that kept the insta-kill, and perma-lock, down to a minimum while still effectively utilizing area denial, or making players spread out from the zerg ball with ticking DoTs. The blinds were fun too.
-Area of Effect (AoE) abilities are a common staple in MMORPG combat. Weâre curious to know what your thoughts are on AoE abilities and the way theyâre displayed.
Should be separated to 2 type, one display to enemies another one doesnât.
-In PvP, which Area of Effect (AoE) abilities, should be telegraphed to enemies?
Same answer as above.
Big aoe spell that deal good amount of damage and can be casted far away like over 35 meters from enemy should display the indicator on ground.(example: Elementalistâs Meteor Shower in GW2)
Small aoe spell that deal okay damage and only can be casted in a middle range like 15~25 meters from enemy shouldnât display the indicator on ground and should be instant cast or has very short cast time.(example: Mesmerâs Mind Stab in GW2)
-How clearly should AoEs be to enemy and friendly players?
Same to both side.
-Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting?
No reason to do it differently in PVE.
-Do you have examples from other games in which AoE abilities are presented in a way you like? If so, please share them!
In PvP, which Area of Effect (AoE) abilities, should be telegraphed to enemies?
In general I don't think that incoming AoE should ever be telegraphed to enemies using AoE markers on the ground, this completely destroys the purpose of scouting, information gathering, hiding, being sneaky etc. during fights as well as the possibility of setting traps for your adversaries (cooperation is the essence of an MMO). Once the abilities has landed and leaves an effect on the ground, either dealing damage or applies debuffs, a small indicator could be used by just having that area a different color or pattern, eg Nasus Spirit fire ability in league (https://us.v-cdn.net/6030144/uploads/editor/8a/k9efcc16b3m0.png) or like AoEs in Smite. I think that AoE abilities in Smite are very well done, you can clearly see where they are targeting most abilities and projectiles are mostly avoidable if you keep pay attention, even if they are instant cast. You can also go the route of the current blizzard ability that you have in the game and just rely on effect. My point is just that it should not be immersion breaking like FF14 or newer versions of WoW. Player awareness is also a skill to have for a good player, not just visual prowess and reaction speed.
How clearly should AoEs be to enemy and friendly players?
Stated above most of it.
Incoming dmg (like a long cast meteor) can be telegraphed to friendly players to make it easier to combine attacks but is not needed, since this can also be a skill of a well coordinated team to perfectly layer abilities (again highlighting the enjoyable interactions and cooperation aspects of MMOs).
Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting?
No difference. PvE combat and PvP combat should work the same way, not different systems, maybe just that PvE abities should be extra telegraphed with movement/gesture from NPCs, not with AoE markers.
.
Area of Effect (AoE) abilities are a common staple in MMORPG combat. Weâre curious to know what your thoughts are on AoE abilities and the way theyâre displayed.
The Art and Animation should suffice to indicate what is and what is not, nothing else is further needed.
In PvP, which Area of Effect (AoE) abilities, should be telegraphed to enemies?
Animations should be appropriate for the very spell it's using. Meteors should fall from the sky, ice spikes on the ground should be actual ice spikes.
Cast times and telegraphed should be appropriate to what they do and how they used, a meteor should hit like a meteor and thus should come with a cast time and animation.
How clearly should AoEs be to enemy and friendly players?
Art should be distinguishable, visualizations and sonifications need to be appropriate, if you walk over ice spikes and they're enemy ice spikes, there should be the appropriate visuals associated with it, not a cheap indicator. More like your legs are frozen.
Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting?
No.
Do you have examples from other games in which AoE abilities are presented in a way you like? If so, please share them!
[*] Area of Effect (AoE) abilities are a common staple in MMORPG combat. Weâre curious to know what your thoughts are on AoE abilities and the way theyâre displayed.
Yes, well... I don't hate them but I wouldn't be upset if you remove them completely from the game.
I don't like to see a lot or colored spell effects everywhere. Simple graphics are better for me.
There should be clear distinctions between damaging, healing and cc AOEs. It also needs to be possible to scale down their intensity to reduce clutter in larger scale combat scenarios while still having them clearly distinguishable from each other while still being visible. I'm not a big fan of clear coloured outlines of aoe abilities because I find them to be immersion breaking but it would get the job done which is better then a mess.
When caster is casting AOE (other than seeing animation of that spell on the caster himself)
Red circle where caster is applying AOE
In other words - no warnings.
After AOE is already applied, I think it's okay to make a setting where players can turn on/off red circles that will highlight AOE on the ground, could be color coded for enemy(damage)/healing/buff(friendly). However, if you make visual effects visible enough, where if player just looks where he standing then that would be ideal.
I said "to make a setting" because not everyone wants to see digital advice in games like this. Not everyone is playing with health bars turned on (in Diablo for example), some people like myself don't want to see too much overlayed on top of the screen, especially if it's against the atmosphere of the game or current mood of player. Another example would be, in some games, especially in MMO, they make an arrow of where you need to go to finish a quest - circles around AOE debuffs give the same feeling.
Comments
PVP: Please restrict beneficial AoEs to players who are GROUPED.
Similarly, damage AoE should hit ALL pvp engaged targets (not grouped) unless specifically designed to hit a limited number of targets.
AoE abilities should not be âsmartâ and ignore allies/guildmates who are part of the zerg but not part of the group.
Good AoE design can be an antizerg mechanic and allow smaller, more organized, groups to âpunch upâ.
this way you can see what skill they use but its not overwhelming that you can not see whats going on in the world amymore.
i think that every class should have atleast like 1 aoe while some classes shine with aoe.
in warhammer online guilds and pugs roam the rvr zone that has a couple of battlefield objectives i suppose somewhat the same as nodes but a way smaller degree as its just a flag you capture like arathi basin in wow.
each guild or pug can have up to 40 memebers in it and they fight for the bo and aoe is really good for this but again its animations shouldnt block the screen but be visible
AoE in PvP (Player vs. Player):
- Players should be visually notified when they are being targeted by an AoE ability.
- Visual cues help players avoid or counter AoEs using defensive abilities or utilities.
Clarity of AoEs for Enemy and Friendly Players:
- For enemies: AoEs should be clear enough to allow skilled players the chance to avoid or counter the ability.
- For allies: AoEs should be clear for friendly players to coordinate, stack abilities, or focus damage on an area or enemy.
- Balance: Visual effects should be clear but not overwhelming, avoiding too many distracting flashes or lighting effects that impair vision.
AoE in PvE (Player vs. Environment):
- Similar principles of clarity likely apply.
Examples from Other Games:
- Some games allow settings to toggle AoE visibility for players or enemies, especially in large battles (e.g., 100v100).
- The option to adjust or turn off spell effects for better visual clarity is valued in high-intensity combat scenarios.
Key Points:
- Visual telegraphing is essential for skill-based combat.
- Clarity is crucial for both enemy and ally coordination.
- Optional settings to control AoE visibility are appreciated in large-scale battles or raids.
This is based on my own opinion I just hope the game will be great and will have its own take or spin on things but also keep things relevant. Really looking forwards to playing and Iâm sure it will be a success đđŒ
I do like AOEs but I dislike how they get to be a "MY EYES!!! THEY BURN!!!!" as the screen gets lit up with constant AOE animations. Yes AOEs need to be beautiful to look at in an individual level but maybe if multiple casters are casting the same spell, their magics get intertwined and a just more powerful animation happens instead?
In PvP, which Area of Effect (AoE) abilities, should be telegraphed to enemies?
in PVP the ONLY telegraph maybe should be the spell windup, have them see a different spell circle for individual vs AOE spell and you have to pay attention to what they are doing, or maybe an audio que but not a circle on the ground or AOE targeting that shows where/when it goes off like PVE. PVP needs to be as minimal give away as possible
How clearly should AoEs be to enemy and friendly players? To the enemy? you never see it coming, to friendly players, you have a timer and see where it is being used, that way you can synchronize your spells to be different places and hit different people
Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting? Obviously yes, in a PVE setting you should be able to see the spell effect area to have a chance to get out of the way, because in a PVE setting the goal is your group vs the boss and no one else, the boss itself even with the AOE effect ques should be hard to accomplish just like any other MMO
Do you have examples from other games in which AoE abilities are presented in a way you like? If so, please share them!
I like the FFXIV way they do things with the boss AOE mechanics. I do not like the multiple player AOE "light up my screen and burn my eyes" thought, just the boss mechanics AOEs
Whatever spell they tossed had a specific shape telegraphed on the ground. You could adjust the brightness and whether the floor was filled in or just an outline via an opacity slider.
Everything from pvp or pve had clear telegraphs. In PVP mass fights it would get chaotic with telegraph cones everywhere but that was kinda the point, "you are in danger in those cones and lines, so use your roll to get out."
Wildstar was a more technic themed game so the telegraphs made sense thematically. Ashes would probably have to have them be various types of magic circles\lines\cones\squares that could be adjusted in kind.
I think having options for those kind of telegraph settings is the best bet. Give the people who just wanna see just abilities but no telegraphs and the people who want them to be visible and clear what you're getting hit by.
Alliterating further from my previous thoughts, I believe visual cues are crucial for creating a competitive and balanced environment, especially in PvP and PvX scenarios. No one enjoys being sniped or obliterated by an ability they never saw coming or had a chance to react to. While Iâm not suggesting we need exaggerated cones or bright triangles on the ground, there should be some form of visual and audio awareness that players can pick up on.
Take, for example, a giant fireball or meteorite dropping on your head that deals massive damage without any warningâwhere's the fun in that? Players should have the opportunity to use defensive abilities, either individually or through group coordination, to mitigate or counter such attacks. If it's impossible to move out of the way in time, there should at least be a chance to react. Without that possibility, the encounter becomes frustrating rather than challenging.
Imagine the caster of that fireball having a visual wind-up: perhaps spinning their staff around their head, flames surrounding them, or even a fire circle appearing on the ground where they aim, with smoke rising as a signal. Audio cues could further complement this, like the rippling sound of flames in the air. Magic circles or elemental effects that blend into the game world can make telegraphing more immersive without being jarring or artificial.
Big, hard-hitting abilities should come with clear visual wind-ups and subtle follow-up cues. One issue with many games today is the pacingâabilities are cast at breakneck speed, turning combat into a flurry of spell-slinging with little to no weight behind each attack. This not only diminishes the tactical depth of the fight but also makes encounters feel repetitive, reducing combat to a button-mashing affair. Players need time to execute their rotations, react, and engage in the back-and-forth of a good skirmish, rather than being instantly deleted by an unseen ability.
Whatâs needed are visual cues that arenât overly flashy or intrusiveâno fake flashing lights or unnatural effects. These cues should feel like an organic part of the game world. For instance, a mage using an earth-based ability could have a wind-up where they slam their staff into the ground, causing cracks to form before the earth breaks open and the attack strikes. These are just a few examples, but the essence is that telegraphing should be integrated naturally to enhance gameplay and give players a fair chance to react without sacrificing immersion.
I think I described everything else above.
I think friendly AoE healing abilities can be left unseen by enemies. But buff AoE abilities that work in the "dome" should be shown to enemies so that they understand whether you are under any protection in a specific area
One of the concepts of AOE is damage escalation: the more enemies (pvp) your AOE hits, the more damage it should do. 1 player - 100% damage, 2 players - 105%, 5 players - 125%, 10 players - 150%. This could be configured differently for different abilities, because there are those for which it would be very strong (chain abilities should increase damage much less)
///
chain is an ability that needs to be cast for several seconds to maintain existence.
cast is an ability that has a casttime, and leaves a field on the floor for X seconds
I think there can be a lot of ideas for damage dealers, but I am most focused on AOE support and control.
AOE ability ideas:
- Silince area (cast 0.4sec)(for tanks) - create an area 3 meters wide in which you can't use the ability, which lasts 6 seconds and slows down enemies inside by 30%.
- Ring of energy (cast 0sec)(for tanks) - create a ring 20 meters long and 1 meter thick, which slows down by 80% those who enter, which lasts 4 seconds
- Curse field (chain 5secs)(someone) - create an area 5 meters wide in which 1 enemy buff will be destroyed every second
- Dome of protection (cast or chain5sec) - create a dome 16 meters wide giving protection to all players inside (or up to 20 players inside)
- Time stop (cast 0sec) - in an area 5 meters wide, time freezes for 3 seconds. Players/NPCs frozen in time are invulnerable, cannot move and use abilities. after use, a debuff appears on players that does not allow another TimeStop to be used on them
- rune of protection (cast 1sec) - creates an area 6 meters wide for 9 seconds, giving invulnerability to types of control: slowdown, knockback, and timestop.
- protective barrier (chain 5sec) - creates a dome in front of itself for 5 seconds, 4 meters wide, which pushes all players who touch it back 12 meters
- barrier wall (cast 1sec) - creates protection 5 meters wide existing 5 seconds, which pushes all players who touch it back 12 meters
General answers:
- Area of Effect (AoE) abilities are a common staple in MMORPG combat. Weâre curious to know what your thoughts are on AoE abilities and the way theyâre displayed.
Have a different vfx to differentiate friendly and enemy AoE
Have a difference between DoT AoE's and nuke AoE, visibility wise
- In PvP, which Area of Effect (AoE) abilities, should be telegraphed to enemies?
Have big spells/AoE's be telegraphed before they land, ie a meteor or huge blizzard.
- How clearly should AoEs be to enemy and friendly players?
Across the board agreed it should be very clear.
- Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting?
No, people wanted it to be as clear as possible there as well. With perhaps some vfx culling.
- Do you have examples from other games in which AoE abilities are presented in a way you like? If so, please share them!
Albion online. Ragnarok Online.
I agree AoEâs are a common staple in MMORGP combat. The real question is, does Intrepid want common abilities in their game. I personally would prefer less damage AoE abilities in-game. And the ones that make it should be innovative in some way.
If Intrepid gets 200v200 avatars firing off AoE abilities, in the same space, it's going to look like a Jackson Pollock painting pasted over your monitor in short order. I suggest moderation with the Fx. I saw your Bard cameo. I thought it looked pretty good by itself, but during the PvE run the squad started to clutter up the screen, Also the AoE radius was way too large for some of those skills.
In PvP, which Area of Effect (AoE) abilities, should be telegraphed to enemies?
Iâm assuming there are animations for skills and a damage log? This should be enough for players to figure out what is killing them or locking them down. Not to mention most everyone is going to alt out and experience most of the classes from the user position. However I am not opposed to baking tells into the class animations.
How clearly should AoEs be to enemy and friendly players?
Iâd have to play your game before I could answer this question. Iâm Alpha 2
Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting?
I don't have an opinion on PvE
Do you have examples from other games in which AoE abilities are presented in a way you like? If so, please share them!
ArtCraft had this very same discussion for Crowfall during their early Pre-Alpha phase of development, it was clear that hardcore PvP constituents wanted less AoE, less FX spam, and better performance. And everybody else wanted flashing lights, bells and whistles, buzzers, and glitter. ArtCraft leaned into the special effects because they felt like the sensory stimulation would put âButts In Seatsâ and the glitter would grab the attention of potential customers/subscriptions. So we ended up with more glitter than the early player base wanted, however they did some things right with hard counter abilities, caps, and immunities, that kept the insta-kill, and perma-lock, down to a minimum while still effectively utilizing area denial, or making players spread out from the zerg ball with ticking DoTs. The blinds were fun too.
Should be separated to 2 type, one display to enemies another one doesnât.
-In PvP, which Area of Effect (AoE) abilities, should be telegraphed to enemies?
Same answer as above.
Big aoe spell that deal good amount of damage and can be casted far away like over 35 meters from enemy should display the indicator on ground.(example: Elementalistâs Meteor Shower in GW2)
Small aoe spell that deal okay damage and only can be casted in a middle range like 15~25 meters from enemy shouldnât display the indicator on ground and should be instant cast or has very short cast time.(example: Mesmerâs Mind Stab in GW2)
-How clearly should AoEs be to enemy and friendly players?
Same to both side.
-Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting?
No reason to do it differently in PVE.
-Do you have examples from other games in which AoE abilities are presented in a way you like? If so, please share them!
Like above GW2 is a baseline to me.
In general I don't think that incoming AoE should ever be telegraphed to enemies using AoE markers on the ground, this completely destroys the purpose of scouting, information gathering, hiding, being sneaky etc. during fights as well as the possibility of setting traps for your adversaries (cooperation is the essence of an MMO). Once the abilities has landed and leaves an effect on the ground, either dealing damage or applies debuffs, a small indicator could be used by just having that area a different color or pattern, eg Nasus Spirit fire ability in league (https://us.v-cdn.net/6030144/uploads/editor/8a/k9efcc16b3m0.png) or like AoEs in Smite. I think that AoE abilities in Smite are very well done, you can clearly see where they are targeting most abilities and projectiles are mostly avoidable if you keep pay attention, even if they are instant cast. You can also go the route of the current blizzard ability that you have in the game and just rely on effect. My point is just that it should not be immersion breaking like FF14 or newer versions of WoW. Player awareness is also a skill to have for a good player, not just visual prowess and reaction speed.
How clearly should AoEs be to enemy and friendly players?
Stated above most of it.
Incoming dmg (like a long cast meteor) can be telegraphed to friendly players to make it easier to combine attacks but is not needed, since this can also be a skill of a well coordinated team to perfectly layer abilities (again highlighting the enjoyable interactions and cooperation aspects of MMOs).
Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting?
No difference. PvE combat and PvP combat should work the same way, not different systems, maybe just that PvE abities should be extra telegraphed with movement/gesture from NPCs, not with AoE markers.
.
The Art and Animation should suffice to indicate what is and what is not, nothing else is further needed.
In PvP, which Area of Effect (AoE) abilities, should be telegraphed to enemies?
Animations should be appropriate for the very spell it's using. Meteors should fall from the sky, ice spikes on the ground should be actual ice spikes.
Cast times and telegraphed should be appropriate to what they do and how they used, a meteor should hit like a meteor and thus should come with a cast time and animation.
How clearly should AoEs be to enemy and friendly players?
Art should be distinguishable, visualizations and sonifications need to be appropriate, if you walk over ice spikes and they're enemy ice spikes, there should be the appropriate visuals associated with it, not a cheap indicator. More like your legs are frozen.
Do your thoughts differ in a PvE setting?
No.
Do you have examples from other games in which AoE abilities are presented in a way you like? If so, please share them!
I like damage escalation from Albion.
Yes, well... I don't hate them but I wouldn't be upset if you remove them completely from the game.
I don't like to see a lot or colored spell effects everywhere. Simple graphics are better for me.
- When caster is casting AOE (other than seeing animation of that spell on the caster himself)
- Red circle where caster is applying AOE
In other words - no warnings.After AOE is already applied, I think it's okay to make a setting where players can turn on/off red circles that will highlight AOE on the ground, could be color coded for enemy(damage)/healing/buff(friendly). However, if you make visual effects visible enough, where if player just looks where he standing then that would be ideal.
I said "to make a setting" because not everyone wants to see digital advice in games like this. Not everyone is playing with health bars turned on (in Diablo for example), some people like myself don't want to see too much overlayed on top of the screen, especially if it's against the atmosphere of the game or current mood of player. Another example would be, in some games, especially in MMO, they make an arrow of where you need to go to finish a quest - circles around AOE debuffs give the same feeling.