Glorious Alpha Two Testers!

Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.

Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.

Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.

wow there is finally a races and classes page on here

2

Comments

  • SoSpokeMikaSoSpokeMika Member
    edited October 18
    Pendragxn wrote: »
    zv6e430nhgc7.png

    Middle one looks cool as hell though.

    Oh there’s a ton of spelling mistakes on some of the alpha two archtype skills if you zoom in and read them on this page. It’s not a big deal but just needs someone combing over it before they post no worries.

    https://ashesofcreation.com/news/guide-to-alpha-two

    Compared to female models, there are somewhat decent. Females are just straight up furies.

    Someone on Twitter once described AoC races as ''lacking testosterone'' and called out armor for being badly designed and way too simplistic. I tend to agree.

    Never, ever would I imagine that I would lose interest in MMO because of artstyle, but here we are...
  • SoSpokeMikaSoSpokeMika Member
    edited October 18
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Personal opinion... the art looks like recent 5e DND art....and that isnt a compliment. :#

    This (not a bad thing imo), but its poorly illustrated. At least DnD has good armor design.
  • SoSpokeMikaSoSpokeMika Member
    edited October 18
    Pendragxn wrote: »
    I’m going to be honest the art style looks kind of shit and character models. The human looks the best and the elf looks kind of withered like they’re been doing meth. Sorry I had to say it the art style is way too cartoonish compared to other games I’ve seen releasing before this!

    2025 soon fix it before it’s DOA.

    Ty!
    Elfs have this sunken elongated face that they are trying to pass as stylization, which just looks horrible.

    Concept art looks better then 3d models.

  • DolyemDolyem Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Bring back Emanuel Gonzalez
    7Nxwuhe.jpg

    Both are horrible.

    1st one is too stylized with very odd face shapes.
    2nd on is just proportion mess. Both in anatomy and armor/body ratio.

    I don't care if it's stylized. I just want quality, and for it to look cool.
    I don't mind more realistic styles either, but they aren't a requirement.
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • PendragxnPendragxn Member
    edited October 18
    Pendragxn wrote: »
    I’m going to be honest the art style looks kind of shit and character models. The human looks the best and the elf looks kind of withered like they’re been doing meth. Sorry I had to say it the art style is way too cartoonish compared to other games I’ve seen releasing before this!

    2025 soon fix it before it’s DOA.

    Ty!
    Elfs have this sunken elongated face that they are trying to pass as stylization, which just looks horrible.

    Concept art looks better then 3d models.

    I agree the elves are supposed to be a fair race and they’re not even pretty looking. The art style is bad for sure not something I’d expect from a game launching after 2025 maybe not even a 2026 release. I’ve got to be honest my favourite games are like Japanese style ones, such as monster hunter and final fantasy. I really think Arche Age Chronicles looks better than this it’s a bit of a let down. The quality is just not there looks really cartoonish I hate the weird looks of the 3D models I hope this is not what we’re going to get in-game. They need to find a balance between western and eastern art styles this is what I’ve been saying just looks super unrealistic.

    I feel like some WoW fanboy has a hand in making these models and art it’s like we’ve gone back in time. Imagine a better version of WoW but still looks shitty and cartoonish. I’ve got to be honest like if anyone thinks it looks good you’re on hard copium!

  • PendragxnPendragxn Member
    edited October 18
    I mean can we get back to the real issue why is the art style, character design, character models and detail so bad for a game launching after 2025 maybe even 2026. I don’t see an issue in promoting diversity and any race should be able to choose their skin pigment or preferred preferences for character design. As DYGZ said it’s more about their mixed background as well as culture than the colour of their skin. If I want to be a blonde haired blue eyed guy from a desert zone I’ll be that.

    Again I see no issue in promoting women or anything like that so before this thread descends into anarchy. Why is everything so cartoonish and way out of field, elves don’t even look like typical elves they’re a fair race. The human looks better than the elf who designed this needs sacking!

    5re54mc8vhm2.gif
  • Dolyem wrote: »
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Bring back Emanuel Gonzalez
    7Nxwuhe.jpg

    Both are horrible.

    1st one is too stylized with very odd face shapes.
    2nd on is just proportion mess. Both in anatomy and armor/body ratio.

    I don't care if it's stylized. I just want quality, and for it to look cool.
    I don't mind more realistic styles either, but they aren't a requirement.

    Dont mind stylized either, but I hate the way they do it.
    What bothers me is that it seems like its done by someone who is not comfortable with changing art styles.
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Bring back Emanuel Gonzalez
    7Nxwuhe.jpg

    Both are horrible.

    1st one is too stylized with very odd face shapes.
    2nd on is just proportion mess. Both in anatomy and armor/body ratio.

    I don't care if it's stylized. I just want quality, and for it to look cool.
    I don't mind more realistic styles either, but they aren't a requirement.

    Dont mind stylized either, but I hate the way they do it.
    What bothers me is that it seems like its done by someone who is not comfortable with changing art styles.

    Hahahahahahaha. Perfect description.
  • TheDarkSorcererTheDarkSorcerer Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 19
    Quick thoughts on new site:
    I am going to give Intrepid the benefit of the doubt. But I hope this site has another pass and an actual experienced branding agency is working on this. It does look like it was put together internally for Alpha 2. Which is fine if this is supposed to be temporary until launch. There's boxes on boxes within the web modules and way too much drop shadow used. The copywriting could use some love.

    Good examples:
    Throne and Liberty weapon format that would work well showing classes: https://www.playthroneandliberty.com/en-us/game/gameplay

    Elder Scrolls Online use of paralax to add movement as you scroll. Also like that they curate their images better with enough contrast so there's no need for boxes behind headline/subhead. https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/updates/chapter/necrom

    Hogwarts Legacy's great use of their decorative border frames around images, similar to AoC.
    https://www.hogwartslegacy.com/en-us

    Dragon's Dogma 2 format for class showcase. Just don't like their use of outer glow on text. It's unnecessary and a poor design choice,
    https://www.dragonsdogma.com/2/en-us/action/

    m6jque7ofxxf.gif
  • TyranthraxusTyranthraxus Member, Alpha Two
    Was this on the official site, or the wiki? Have tried going to a few different areas on this site, but have found nothing alluding to this stuff.



  • SolbranthiusSolbranthius Member, Alpha Two
    Was this on the official site, or the wiki? Have tried going to a few different areas on this site, but have found nothing alluding to this stuff.




    It's on this site.

    This is the page for the various races: https://ashesofcreation.com/races

    Here's the page for the archetypes: https://ashesofcreation.com/archetypes

  • RocketFarmerRocketFarmer Member, Alpha Two
    Let’s call this Alpha 2 splash art for the purposes of having more information on the website geared to the younger audience. Because they don’t really need to market to those over 30, IMHO, since they had us at hello. That comes with the style where they have to “please everyone” without pleasing anyone. That said the art is consistent with modern trends. It is what it is, and being a fan of art it’s kind of sad and generic. But maybe that’s what they are going for?

    What would be very cool is a built in quasi-character creator to show the variety of racial or archetype options you can choose from. That or put the art in gif format (or equivalent) that cycles through those variants. But yeah, more effort into game development than marketing.

    Perhaps a little lore about where in Verra that race and its variances came from and what’s changed since the Apocalypse. Frankly I don’t feel connected to these races without more meaningful information. It’s probably there in the lore, but not shared at the moment. I also see strong connections in real life with races to the land (or sea), as these environmental factors then to shape a race or culture.

    As for connection of the “splash” art to the PC, I think there’s zero relevance and zero correlation. Players are going to play what characters are going to play. The character creator shown in the past showcase indicates it should be capable of capturing what most players desire. Some play characters that look similar to themselves whereas others play characters who look nothing like themselves because they play the game as an escape.

    There are red flags some players will have with the embrace with modern trends.

    Race Swap for established character. This is a common theme with modern media pushing their agenda. It can work if they attend to story and other things beyond just “praise my race”. This is not applicable to Ashes because there are no established characters to race swap.

    Gender Swap for established character. Similar to race, but with gender. Also not applicable to Ashes for the same reasons.

    “Soft” art versus edgy. I can see this criticism given that Steven has previously stated the game is intended for mature audiences. Therefore expectations would be for more edgy art rather than the kinder, gentler art of today’s modern style. But at the same time, it’s all subjective. People will be offended by art. However when some players see a softer art style, they wonder whether that will extend to the game itself. I personally think there is very little correlation to the splash art and the game itself. We’re talking about art that isn’t the in game art. It’s marketing. Just like cut scenes rarely match the in game content for most games, although that can change as Unreal goes through its upgrades to the point it’s rendering cinematic art for game play and not just cut scenes.

    My criticism of the current media trends in diversity is they really aren’t doing justice to the medium. We see too many productions where they abuse both the IP and the characteristics they are attempting to diversify, and therefore they abuse the audience or customer. The characters need good, unique stories. Which is why any “swap” or remake is generally bad. It’s also lazy. Some can pull it off masterfully, but those are too few and far between. It’s also the result of promoting people before they’ve developed the tools and experiences to deliver their art as a master rather than an amateur. So quality is diminished. Perhaps a couple of decades of really bad media will result in something decent. Just seems like the tendency to want to destroy the old to make way for the new results in something less than taking the best of both to develop the skills and media to make something truly great. But then that doesn’t align with current definitions of “good” or the current cancel culture. I think comedy has been the hardest hit by these modern trends. I have seen no evidence of any of this happening at Intrepid. Steven has assembled a collection of people to attempt to develop something great, well at least compared to the latest offerings on the market (kind of a low bar, frankly). But I do get why some feel “sensitive” for the trends towards mediocrity.
  • P0GG0P0GG0 Member, Alpha Two
    Please use Ai to rework those, they look so generic.
  • CastlemanCastleman Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 23
    Now this is nice fantasy art (old Diablo2 concept)
    ug11dnkm8mu61.png

    Detailed but readable, realistic but fantastic, mature but colorful. Fit's the ingame style of the very well, that gave me the same traits
  • AszkalonAszkalon Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 23
    Caeryl wrote: »
    I realize the internet trends toward stupid in a lot of ways, but this post really has to take the cake for dumbest things said loudly.

    He has a Point, though.

    But i think they made this nicely in Toril, the World of DnD. I heard/read(?) that People of all (human) ethnic Looks can live everywhere.

    Boom ! Fixed.

    But on Verra -> You have for Example the " Kae'lar Riverlands ". A Place fixed by Location. But Kae'lar can be completely white or completely black. Which is kinda confusing. I think all Vaelune look arabic ?? (o_O)
    a50whcz343yn.png
    ✓ Occasional Roleplayer
    ✓ Guild is " Balderag's Garde " for now. (German)
  • CaerylCaeryl Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Aszkalon wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    I realize the internet trends toward stupid in a lot of ways, but this post really has to take the cake for dumbest things said loudly.

    He has a Point, though.

    But i think they made this nicely in Toril, the World of DnD. I heard/read(?) that People of all (human) ethnic Looks can live everywhere.

    Boom ! Fixed.

    But on Verra -> You have for Example the " Kae'lar Riverlands ". A Place fixed by Location. But Kae'lar can be completely white or completely black. Which is kinda confusing. I think all Vaelune look arabic ?? (o_O)

    Verra hasn't been inhabited by any of these races for a long, long time. Whether the variation has always been there, or only occurred after the apocalypse that sent them running off to another world, doesn't really matter. It's still a mundane aspect that they have wide pigment variations.

    I'd assume Vaelune will have just as much customization available in that regard, though I doubt you'll be able to make a human-toned Vek (lilac purple to navy blue is my assumption on color range til I can mess with it this weekend) maybe Renkai could get close just with the green tinge. Both elven races I'm sure will have the full human skintone range. Tulnar? Couldn't even begin to guess what sort of options for color those will have but I'm praying for no neon green fur or too-eyeburning lizards
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 23
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Eh...I can see it being taken the wrong way but honestly its not wrong. It'd be cool and beneficial to the lore if there were in depth explanations of where different races and nations developed. Sub-factions in the lore allows for more story and background development. Just saying a bunch of people who have noticeably different physical traits are actually just the same is some lazy ass writing.
    I would absolutely expect to not be able to be a pale Vaelune as far as lore goes, but if I can I would want a valid lore reason for being able to do so.
    In Ashes lore, people and Races were created by the Gods.
    Again, as far as we know right now, it's most likely that the genetic diversity for melanin-related phenotypes was establlished before leacing Verra for Sanctus. The split from Aela to Khalar and Vaelune is mostly cultural.
    Pale or dark-skinned Vaelune will probably all have some essense markings on them -indicating their Jinn lineage.
  • DolyemDolyem Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 23
    Dygz wrote: »
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Eh...I can see it being taken the wrong way but honestly its not wrong. It'd be cool and beneficial to the lore if there were in depth explanations of where different races and nations developed. Sub-factions in the lore allows for more story and background development. Just saying a bunch of people who have noticeably different physical traits are actually just the same is some lazy ass writing.
    I would absolutely expect to not be able to be a pale Vaelune as far as lore goes, but if I can I would want a valid lore reason for being able to do so.
    In Ashes lore, people and Races were created by the Gods.
    Again, as far as we know right now, it's most likely that the genetic diversity for melanin-related phenotypes was establlished before leacing Verra for Sanctus. The split from Aela to Khalar and Vaelune is mostly cultural.
    Pale or dark-skinned Vaelune will probably all have some essense markings on them -indicating their Jinn lineage.

    In reality there are plenty of people who claim people are made by a god or gods. People still look different based on where they developed.

    To say "they all look different because the gods made them that way" is just lazy writing. And it robs the lore of backstory and development for in depth description of each race.

    Prime example are the difference between the ape tulnar, the wolf tulnar, and the lizard tulnar. Why are all tulnar vastly different? "Just because" and "gods made them like that" is boring as hell
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • CaerylCaeryl Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Dygz wrote: »
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Eh...I can see it being taken the wrong way but honestly its not wrong. It'd be cool and beneficial to the lore if there were in depth explanations of where different races and nations developed. Sub-factions in the lore allows for more story and background development. Just saying a bunch of people who have noticeably different physical traits are actually just the same is some lazy ass writing.
    I would absolutely expect to not be able to be a pale Vaelune as far as lore goes, but if I can I would want a valid lore reason for being able to do so.
    In Ashes lore, people and Races were created by the Gods.
    Again, as far as we know right now, it's most likely that the genetic diversity for melanin-related phenotypes was establlished before leacing Verra for Sanctus. The split from Aela to Khalar and Vaelune is mostly cultural.
    Pale or dark-skinned Vaelune will probably all have some essense markings on them -indicating their Jinn lineage.

    In reality there are plenty of people who claim people are made by a god or gods. People still look different based on where they developed.

    To say "they all look different because the gods made them that way" is just lazy writing. And it robs the lore of backstory and development for in depth description of each race.

    Prime example are the difference between the ape tulnar, the wolf tulnar, and the lizard tulnar. Why are all tulnar vastly different? "Just because" and "gods made them like that" is boring as hell

    Except unlike real life, gods within a fantasy setting actually exist in a demonstrable fashion in the universe. It doesn't rob the races of having cultural exposition in addition to their original creation being orchestrated by a deity.

    For Tulnar specifically, there is lore for why there's so much variety in their forms. It's a short scroll on the wiki. Not exactly hidden.
    The Tulnar is a combination of four major races and many minor races that were left behind on Verra after the apocalypse.[8][9][10][7] The (ancestors of) the Tulnar fled to the Underrealm to escape the Corruption that befell Verra.[11]
    They're a combination of the leftover races, not just the leftover major race populations, but the leftover minor races as well; and that's what gives them their attributes that are bestial, or reptilian, humanoid; and that players can use sliders to influence the visual representation of. But in a similar fashion, their cultural markers are also going to be a combination of different influences, so they're very differently constructed culture than what is found in the other eight races.
  • GaettuskGaettusk Member, Alpha Two
    This is still going on? I don't understand the pivot to Tulnar biodiversity lore to prop up the haphazard "there doesn't need to be lore to justify Kaelar being a lazy amalgamation of modern irl humans"
  • It could be a part of the characters background choices where they’re from we don’t know yet, and besides you all do know you’re playing a game right. It’s funny like you want lore to explain why someone has a different skin colour, however I doubt you can even tell me the origin of magic. Why does magic exist in the world? Where did magic come from? How come you can wield or use magic? Oh yeah it’s a fantasy game… people are just so dense you want explanations for things that don’t even need answering because you know yourself irl. Honestly it’s just ridiculous that we have to have this debate or conversations in the first place.
  • DolyemDolyem Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Pendragxn wrote: »
    It could be a part of the characters background choices where they’re from we don’t know yet, and besides you all do know you’re playing a game right. It’s funny like you want lore to explain why someone has a different skin colour, however I doubt you can even tell me the origin of magic. Why does magic exist in the world? Where did magic come from? How come you can wield or use magic? Oh yeah it’s a fantasy game… people are just so dense you want explanations for things that don’t even need answering because you know yourself irl. Honestly it’s just ridiculous that we have to have this debate or conversations in the first place.

    So explanations are bad? Man, wait until Tolkien fans hear about how one of the most beloved fantasy worlds is trash for explaining things.
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • CaerylCaeryl Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Dygz wrote: »
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Eh...I can see it being taken the wrong way but honestly its not wrong. It'd be cool and beneficial to the lore if there were in depth explanations of where different races and nations developed. Sub-factions in the lore allows for more story and background development. Just saying a bunch of people who have noticeably different physical traits are actually just the same is some lazy ass writing.
    I would absolutely expect to not be able to be a pale Vaelune as far as lore goes, but if I can I would want a valid lore reason for being able to do so.
    In Ashes lore, people and Races were created by the Gods.
    Again, as far as we know right now, it's most likely that the genetic diversity for melanin-related phenotypes was establlished before leacing Verra for Sanctus. The split from Aela to Khalar and Vaelune is mostly cultural.
    Pale or dark-skinned Vaelune will probably all have some essense markings on them -indicating their Jinn lineage.

    In reality there are plenty of people who claim people are made by a god or gods. People still look different based on where they developed.

    To say "they all look different because the gods made them that way" is just lazy writing. And it robs the lore of backstory and development for in depth description of each race.

    Prime example are the difference between the ape tulnar, the wolf tulnar, and the lizard tulnar. Why are all tulnar vastly different? "Just because" and "gods made them like that" is boring as hell

    Except unlike real life, gods within a fantasy setting actually exist in a demonstrable fashion in the universe. It doesn't rob the races of having cultural exposition in addition to their original creation being orchestrated by a deity.

    For Tulnar specifically, there is lore for why there's so much variety in their forms. It's a short scroll on the wiki. Not exactly hidden.
    The Tulnar is a combination of four major races and many minor races that were left behind on Verra after the apocalypse.[8][9][10][7] The (ancestors of) the Tulnar fled to the Underrealm to escape the Corruption that befell Verra.[11]
    They're a combination of the leftover races, not just the leftover major race populations, but the leftover minor races as well; and that's what gives them their attributes that are bestial, or reptilian, humanoid; and that players can use sliders to influence the visual representation of. But in a similar fashion, their cultural markers are also going to be a combination of different influences, so they're very differently constructed culture than what is found in the other eight races.

    Excellent. So there is potential lore as to what races their combinations are based on. This shows why particular traits would show and why others would not due to separations in environments and compatibility. Just as kaelar would have particular traits based on different ancestries who developed in differing environments.

    Not sure why yall act like it's racist to provide logical explanations as to why there are differences, it just expands the lore.
    It's bad/lazy writing to just leave it at "oh well, everything/everyone just pops out differently regardless of their parents traits/ancestry"

    Except no one said that. Anywhere.
  • CaerylCaeryl Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Dygz wrote: »
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Eh...I can see it being taken the wrong way but honestly its not wrong. It'd be cool and beneficial to the lore if there were in depth explanations of where different races and nations developed. Sub-factions in the lore allows for more story and background development. Just saying a bunch of people who have noticeably different physical traits are actually just the same is some lazy ass writing.
    I would absolutely expect to not be able to be a pale Vaelune as far as lore goes, but if I can I would want a valid lore reason for being able to do so.
    In Ashes lore, people and Races were created by the Gods.
    Again, as far as we know right now, it's most likely that the genetic diversity for melanin-related phenotypes was establlished before leacing Verra for Sanctus. The split from Aela to Khalar and Vaelune is mostly cultural.
    Pale or dark-skinned Vaelune will probably all have some essense markings on them -indicating their Jinn lineage.

    In reality there are plenty of people who claim people are made by a god or gods. People still look different based on where they developed.

    To say "they all look different because the gods made them that way" is just lazy writing. And it robs the lore of backstory and development for in depth description of each race.

    Prime example are the difference between the ape tulnar, the wolf tulnar, and the lizard tulnar. Why are all tulnar vastly different? "Just because" and "gods made them like that" is boring as hell

    Except unlike real life, gods within a fantasy setting actually exist in a demonstrable fashion in the universe. It doesn't rob the races of having cultural exposition in addition to their original creation being orchestrated by a deity.

    For Tulnar specifically, there is lore for why there's so much variety in their forms. It's a short scroll on the wiki. Not exactly hidden.
    The Tulnar is a combination of four major races and many minor races that were left behind on Verra after the apocalypse.[8][9][10][7] The (ancestors of) the Tulnar fled to the Underrealm to escape the Corruption that befell Verra.[11]
    They're a combination of the leftover races, not just the leftover major race populations, but the leftover minor races as well; and that's what gives them their attributes that are bestial, or reptilian, humanoid; and that players can use sliders to influence the visual representation of. But in a similar fashion, their cultural markers are also going to be a combination of different influences, so they're very differently constructed culture than what is found in the other eight races.

    Excellent. So there is potential lore as to what races their combinations are based on. This shows why particular traits would show and why others would not due to separations in environments and compatibility. Just as kaelar would have particular traits based on different ancestries who developed in differing environments.

    Not sure why yall act like it's racist to provide logical explanations as to why there are differences, it just expands the lore.
    It's bad/lazy writing to just leave it at "oh well, everything/everyone just pops out differently regardless of their parents traits/ancestry"

    Except no one said that. Anywhere.

    Ah that's my bad, you were saying that other dude is racist

    At the 'no black NPCs without good explanation' guy, yeah.

    I expect we'll be getting plenty of lore about the races and their tensions with each other, same vein as the religions conflicting between the various gods and their adherents.

    'Why skin dark' isn't exactly a lore concern when there's people that look like huge lizards and blue orcs and have djinn markings from birth.

    Maybe. I still think details are important for world building. Even if it's open ended for now with something as simple as "descendants of conquered territories in X region" or "mingling foreign nations connected through decades or centuries of trade" are far far far better than "just because"

    I disagree. There's nothing unusual about a variety of skin tones, whereas some things that are unusual is Vaelune djinn markings, or Py'Rai branchlers, dwarven height or elven magical longevity.

    The lore comes in to explain the irregular and the fantastical elements, not mundanity.
  • DolyemDolyem Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Dygz wrote: »
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Eh...I can see it being taken the wrong way but honestly its not wrong. It'd be cool and beneficial to the lore if there were in depth explanations of where different races and nations developed. Sub-factions in the lore allows for more story and background development. Just saying a bunch of people who have noticeably different physical traits are actually just the same is some lazy ass writing.
    I would absolutely expect to not be able to be a pale Vaelune as far as lore goes, but if I can I would want a valid lore reason for being able to do so.
    In Ashes lore, people and Races were created by the Gods.
    Again, as far as we know right now, it's most likely that the genetic diversity for melanin-related phenotypes was establlished before leacing Verra for Sanctus. The split from Aela to Khalar and Vaelune is mostly cultural.
    Pale or dark-skinned Vaelune will probably all have some essense markings on them -indicating their Jinn lineage.

    In reality there are plenty of people who claim people are made by a god or gods. People still look different based on where they developed.

    To say "they all look different because the gods made them that way" is just lazy writing. And it robs the lore of backstory and development for in depth description of each race.

    Prime example are the difference between the ape tulnar, the wolf tulnar, and the lizard tulnar. Why are all tulnar vastly different? "Just because" and "gods made them like that" is boring as hell

    Except unlike real life, gods within a fantasy setting actually exist in a demonstrable fashion in the universe. It doesn't rob the races of having cultural exposition in addition to their original creation being orchestrated by a deity.

    For Tulnar specifically, there is lore for why there's so much variety in their forms. It's a short scroll on the wiki. Not exactly hidden.
    The Tulnar is a combination of four major races and many minor races that were left behind on Verra after the apocalypse.[8][9][10][7] The (ancestors of) the Tulnar fled to the Underrealm to escape the Corruption that befell Verra.[11]
    They're a combination of the leftover races, not just the leftover major race populations, but the leftover minor races as well; and that's what gives them their attributes that are bestial, or reptilian, humanoid; and that players can use sliders to influence the visual representation of. But in a similar fashion, their cultural markers are also going to be a combination of different influences, so they're very differently constructed culture than what is found in the other eight races.

    Excellent. So there is potential lore as to what races their combinations are based on. This shows why particular traits would show and why others would not due to separations in environments and compatibility. Just as kaelar would have particular traits based on different ancestries who developed in differing environments.

    Not sure why yall act like it's racist to provide logical explanations as to why there are differences, it just expands the lore.
    It's bad/lazy writing to just leave it at "oh well, everything/everyone just pops out differently regardless of their parents traits/ancestry"

    Except no one said that. Anywhere.

    Ah that's my bad, you were saying that other dude is racist

    At the 'no black NPCs without good explanation' guy, yeah.

    I expect we'll be getting plenty of lore about the races and their tensions with each other, same vein as the religions conflicting between the various gods and their adherents.

    'Why skin dark' isn't exactly a lore concern when there's people that look like huge lizards and blue orcs and have djinn markings from birth.

    Maybe. I still think details are important for world building. Even if it's open ended for now with something as simple as "descendants of conquered territories in X region" or "mingling foreign nations connected through decades or centuries of trade" are far far far better than "just because"

    I disagree. There's nothing unusual about a variety of skin tones, whereas some things that are unusual is Vaelune djinn markings, or Py'Rai branchlers, dwarven height or elven magical longevity.

    The lore comes in to explain the irregular and the fantastical elements, not mundanity.

    It's doesn't need to be unusual to have details. Just shows a history. "It's always been like this" is also bad writing
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • Dolyem wrote: »
    Pendragxn wrote: »
    It could be a part of the characters background choices where they’re from we don’t know yet, and besides you all do know you’re playing a game right. It’s funny like you want lore to explain why someone has a different skin colour, however I doubt you can even tell me the origin of magic. Why does magic exist in the world? Where did magic come from? How come you can wield or use magic? Oh yeah it’s a fantasy game… people are just so dense you want explanations for things that don’t even need answering because you know yourself irl. Honestly it’s just ridiculous that we have to have this debate or conversations in the first place.

    So explanations are bad? Man, wait until Tolkien fans hear about how one of the most beloved fantasy worlds is trash for explaining things.


    I think you’ll find that Tolkien never explained the origin or source of magic in his writing, and he just related it to the creative powers of a supreme deity that created the world. Again it’s fantasy so you say you don’t want something as basic as the gods did this or that but that’s exactly what Tolkien did… do you even do research before you say anything?
  • DolyemDolyem Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 24
    Pendragxn wrote: »
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Pendragxn wrote: »
    It could be a part of the characters background choices where they’re from we don’t know yet, and besides you all do know you’re playing a game right. It’s funny like you want lore to explain why someone has a different skin colour, however I doubt you can even tell me the origin of magic. Why does magic exist in the world? Where did magic come from? How come you can wield or use magic? Oh yeah it’s a fantasy game… people are just so dense you want explanations for things that don’t even need answering because you know yourself irl. Honestly it’s just ridiculous that we have to have this debate or conversations in the first place.

    So explanations are bad? Man, wait until Tolkien fans hear about how one of the most beloved fantasy worlds is trash for explaining things.


    I think you’ll find that Tolkien never explained the origin or source of magic in his writing, and he just related it to the creative powers of a supreme deity that created the world. Again it’s fantasy so you say you don’t want something as basic as the gods did this or that but that’s exactly what Tolkien did… do you even do research before you say anything?

    Oh please, go read Letter 155 from Tolkien. He even expresses a regret not being more descriptive about magic and goes into some details about it's nature and use.
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • Dolyem wrote: »
    Pendragxn wrote: »
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Pendragxn wrote: »
    It could be a part of the characters background choices where they’re from we don’t know yet, and besides you all do know you’re playing a game right. It’s funny like you want lore to explain why someone has a different skin colour, however I doubt you can even tell me the origin of magic. Why does magic exist in the world? Where did magic come from? How come you can wield or use magic? Oh yeah it’s a fantasy game… people are just so dense you want explanations for things that don’t even need answering because you know yourself irl. Honestly it’s just ridiculous that we have to have this debate or conversations in the first place.

    So explanations are bad? Man, wait until Tolkien fans hear about how one of the most beloved fantasy worlds is trash for explaining things.


    I think you’ll find that Tolkien never explained the origin or source of magic in his writing, and he just related it to the creative powers of a supreme deity that created the world. Again it’s fantasy so you say you don’t want something as basic as the gods did this or that but that’s exactly what Tolkien did… do you even do research before you say anything?

    Oh please, go read Letter 155 from Tolkien. He even expresses a regret not being more descriptive about magic and goes into some details about it's nature and use.

    He still never gave a logical reason why magic existed in the first place or what it was, and I think you’ll find he even struggled with that concept himself. It also didn’t come across the way he wanted it to and was more akin to abilities befitting the beings he created. Again it’s all just divine intervention regardless of if it was a god or a writer at the hands of it. You are literally playing a fantasy game and want a scientific logical reason for everything… then you deflect and try to bring Tolkien into it? What does that have to do with someone’s skin colour you literally make no sense, but I give up there’s no point talking to someone who’s just going to make me lose brain cells.
    Dolyem wrote: »
    To say "they all look different because the gods made them that way" is just lazy writing. And it robs the lore of backstory and development for in depth description of each race.

    Prime example are the difference between the ape tulnar, the wolf tulnar, and the lizard tulnar. Why are all tulnar vastly different? "Just because" and "gods made them like that" is boring as hell

    You are either literally contradicting yourself or have no clue what you’re talking about period.

  • DolyemDolyem Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Pendragxn wrote: »
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Pendragxn wrote: »
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Pendragxn wrote: »
    It could be a part of the characters background choices where they’re from we don’t know yet, and besides you all do know you’re playing a game right. It’s funny like you want lore to explain why someone has a different skin colour, however I doubt you can even tell me the origin of magic. Why does magic exist in the world? Where did magic come from? How come you can wield or use magic? Oh yeah it’s a fantasy game… people are just so dense you want explanations for things that don’t even need answering because you know yourself irl. Honestly it’s just ridiculous that we have to have this debate or conversations in the first place.

    So explanations are bad? Man, wait until Tolkien fans hear about how one of the most beloved fantasy worlds is trash for explaining things.


    I think you’ll find that Tolkien never explained the origin or source of magic in his writing, and he just related it to the creative powers of a supreme deity that created the world. Again it’s fantasy so you say you don’t want something as basic as the gods did this or that but that’s exactly what Tolkien did… do you even do research before you say anything?

    Oh please, go read Letter 155 from Tolkien. He even expresses a regret not being more descriptive about magic and goes into some details about it's nature and use.

    He still never gave a logical reason why magic existed in the first place or what it was, and I think you’ll find he even struggled with that concept himself. It also didn’t come across the way he wanted it to and was more akin to abilities befitting the beings he created. Again it’s all just divine intervention regardless of if it was a god or a writer at the hands of it. You are literally playing a fantasy game and want a scientific logical reason for everything… then you deflect and try to bring Tolkien into it? What does that have to do with someone’s skin colour you literally make no sense, but I give up there’s no point talking to someone who’s just going to make me lose brain cells.
    Dolyem wrote: »
    To say "they all look different because the gods made them that way" is just lazy writing. And it robs the lore of backstory and development for in depth description of each race.

    Prime example are the difference between the ape tulnar, the wolf tulnar, and the lizard tulnar. Why are all tulnar vastly different? "Just because" and "gods made them like that" is boring as hell

    You are either literally contradicting yourself or have no clue what you’re talking about period.

    my dude...the point is even Tolkien himself believed his world would have benefited from explaining the magic of it better...

    Origins and explanations with details makes for better stories and lore. Otherwise you could get away with literally everything in the world youre making be gray blobs fighting gray blobs, for gray blob reasons, and gray blob ideals, all while never distinguishing between which gray blobs are the good or bad gray blobs, and which gray blobs are allies or enemies.

    Arguing for the sake of less story sounds like arguing for the sake of arguing and no real end goal.
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • Dygz wrote: »
    Who told you that the entire race of Vaelune will have tanned/dark skin??
    Kia Ora
    This is going a bit OT; but do you know if/think that the Nikua might have options for lighter skin and hair?

    Titore i te rangi rehia
    "Quod mens laeva vetat suadendo animusque sinister / Hoc saltim cupiant implere timore coacti"
This discussion has been closed.