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Mana regeneration feels awful

AdelissaAdelissa Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
When out of combat the mana regen remains the same as if you were in combat and it is dreadfully slow. Rations also don't help much with this when you have to eat 10 of them to regen one mana bar. Food at the very least should be enough to fill your mana to full.

The current system is just tedious to navigate and doesn't add any layer of difficulty, Please make food restore more mana ore make bards pensive restore more mana to help with the current rates
Adelissa | Guild Master | Heathen Lords
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Comments

  • KalnazzarKalnazzar Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Adelissa wrote: »
    When out of combat the mana regen remains the same as if you were in combat and it is dreadfully slow. Rations also don't help much with this when you have to eat 10 of them to regen one mana bar. Food at the very least should be enough to fill your mana to full.

    The current system is just tedious to navigate and doesn't add any layer of difficulty, Please make food restore more mana ore make bards pensive restore more mana to help with the current rates

    Rations are a low tier food why would they restore mana to full? Games were mana isn’t a resource that needs managing this would make sense any food would fully restore it. But a full mana restore should be saved for end tier food/potions ect. If not higher tier/quality stuff would be pointless to craft if something as simple as rations can do the same function.
  • AdelissaAdelissa Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Kalnazzar wrote: »

    Rations are a low tier food why would they restore mana to full? Games were mana isn’t a resource that needs managing this would make sense any food would fully restore it. But a full mana restore should be saved for end tier food/potions ect. If not higher tier/quality stuff would be pointless to craft if something as simple as rations can do the same function.

    You're just wrong here. We don't currently have many higher tier foods. Low level rations should work for low level characters and restore them to full. It's a system that's tedious and outdated and does nothing but inconvenience the player currently.
    Adelissa | Guild Master | Heathen Lords
    avlegukgqhk0.png
  • HalaeHalae Member, Alpha Two
    The trick behind this is to encourage you to bring along a support class. I can't remember if clerics get a mana restore option, but I know for certain that bards do in the form of one of their songs that can be picked up as early as level 2.

    If it feels like you're lacking recovery, that's intentional. It's to encourage you to bring a support player.
  • AdelissaAdelissa Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Halae wrote: »
    The trick behind this is to encourage you to bring along a support class. I can't remember if clerics get a mana restore option, but I know for certain that bards do in the form of one of their songs that can be picked up as early as level 2.

    If it feels like you're lacking recovery, that's intentional. It's to encourage you to bring a support player.

    We have a bard in our party, 2 mana per second from their song isn't enough for extended stays at POI's.
    Adelissa | Guild Master | Heathen Lords
    avlegukgqhk0.png
  • HalaeHalae Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 27
    Then maybe you're just moving too fast. This isn't the kind of game where you can sprint from one combat encounter to another. Or, if you can't, it's not something you can do readily at low levels.

    Still, this does remain good feedback, even if I disagree with it.
  • KalnazzarKalnazzar Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 27
    Adelissa wrote: »
    Kalnazzar wrote: »

    Rations are a low tier food why would they restore mana to full? Games were mana isn’t a resource that needs managing this would make sense any food would fully restore it. But a full mana restore should be saved for end tier food/potions ect. If not higher tier/quality stuff would be pointless to craft if something as simple as rations can do the same function.

    You're just wrong here. We don't currently have many higher tier foods. Low level rations should work for low level characters and restore them to full. It's a system that's tedious and outdated and does nothing but inconvenience the player currently.

    You know there's a rest buff that restores 4 mana, right? Just press the 'X' key on your keyboard (it’s the default). Also, it's not outdated—new MMORPG players are often in a rush, wanting infinite mana to keep going nonstop. That’s not how old-school players enjoyed the game. We liked to stop, rest, and regroup—taking time to plan the next move, talk, and laugh together as a team. Nowadays, like in WoW, players often don’t even talk in dungeons—it’s just a race to the end, which creates a toxic gameplay environment in my opinion. p94mtvyoug9y.png

  • AdelissaAdelissa Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Kalnazzar wrote: »

    you do know there is a rest buff that restores 4 mana? Just press the X button on your keyboard i am pretty sure by default. p94mtvyoug9y.png

    If I'm mentioning rations in my post then I'm aware of the rest system yes. My point stands that artificially increasing time spent to restore something as simple as mana makes the game feel bad.
    Adelissa | Guild Master | Heathen Lords
    avlegukgqhk0.png
  • HalaeHalae Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 27
    It's not "artificially" increasing time spent, this is intended. Literally everything you can do in the game is slow, focused, and to a degree fairly plodding, and intentionally so. Getting from one node to another is a 20 minute ordeal depending on what direction you go. Gathering has a wait time. There's no partyfinder system to make grouping faster. You are, at the core of it, intended to take the entire experience slowly and with goals oriented. Why do you think the combat should break from the structure of the rest of the game?
  • katarinaekatarinae Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I feel mana regeneration is fine where it is. Both bards and clerics have a mana regen ability. Bard being it affects the entire party and clerics can choose who they want to bless with mana. Rations take 10 seconds to fill half your bar, so what's another 10 seconds to fill up the remaining half?

    Go out, make some kills, take a breather once in a while and refill. This really isn't a huge issue.
  • KalnazzarKalnazzar Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Adelissa wrote: »
    Kalnazzar wrote: »

    you do know there is a rest buff that restores 4 mana? Just press the X button on your keyboard i am pretty sure by default. p94mtvyoug9y.png

    If I'm mentioning rations in my post then I'm aware of the rest system yes. My point stands that artificially increasing time spent to restore something as simple as mana makes the game feel bad.

    My point stands: making mana regen too fast so players can endlessly pull mobs leads to boring gameplay. I enjoy the challenge of learning how to manage mana properly—my friends do too. This isn’t World of Warcraft, where they’ve removed mana management mechanics. In Ashes, mobs are supposed to be tough, so you can’t steamroll through them without understanding mana, class mechanics, crowd control, and mob strategies. Skill and teamwork are crucial for pushing forward. It adds depth and keeps everyone, including healers and support classes, mindful.
  • Song13Song13 Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I'm with the OP to an extent. the main argument isn't really the mana regen in combat that is the major problem. the major problem is the fact that rations aren't giving back much at higher levels. ideally it'd be nice if vendors could sell better food or something at like level 10 so it doesn't take 4 ration packs to get back to full which does take a very long time of sitting. the sitting regen out of combat also takes like 2-4mins thats a ton of time to just sit there to regen ur mana when out of combat. especially if you are a class that doesn't do very well on their own in terms of regen or healing urself. if you fight 2 mobs and then have to sit for 3 or so mins to regen everything back that is a bit much. now yes cooking profession could change a lot of this. better foods could regen faster but that relies on markets and such usually

    that also being said, I desperately want mana management especially for healers in combat to be a thing because it's a very important skill for healers and makes it more engaging. just sucks when ur party manas up in 1-2 ration packs for u to still be sitting there staring at the next pack to be pulled while mobs are respawning all around you
  • AdelissaAdelissa Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Song13 wrote: »
    I'm with the OP to an extent. the main argument isn't really the mana regen in combat that is the major problem. the major problem is the fact that rations aren't giving back much at higher levels. ideally it'd be nice if vendors could sell better food or something at like level 10 so it doesn't take 4 ration packs to get back to full which does take a very long time of sitting. the sitting regen out of combat also takes like 2-4mins thats a ton of time to just sit there to regen ur mana when out of combat. especially if you are a class that doesn't do very well on their own in terms of regen or healing urself. if you fight 2 mobs and then have to sit for 3 or so mins to regen everything back that is a bit much. now yes cooking profession could change a lot of this. better foods could regen faster but that relies on markets and such usually

    that also being said, I desperately want mana management especially for healers in combat to be a thing because it's a very important skill for healers and makes it more engaging. just sucks when ur party manas up in 1-2 ration packs for u to still be sitting there staring at the next pack to be pulled while mobs are respawning all around you

    Correct. The issue is mana management outside of combat at higher levels.
    Adelissa | Guild Master | Heathen Lords
    avlegukgqhk0.png
  • KalnazzarKalnazzar Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Song13 wrote: »
    I'm with the OP to an extent. the main argument isn't really the mana regen in combat that is the major problem. the major problem is the fact that rations aren't giving back much at higher levels. ideally it'd be nice if vendors could sell better food or something at like level 10 so it doesn't take 4 ration packs to get back to full which does take a very long time of sitting. the sitting regen out of combat also takes like 2-4mins thats a ton of time to just sit there to regen ur mana when out of combat. especially if you are a class that doesn't do very well on their own in terms of regen or healing urself. if you fight 2 mobs and then have to sit for 3 or so mins to regen everything back that is a bit much. now yes cooking profession could change a lot of this. better foods could regen faster but that relies on markets and such usually

    I agree that at higher levels, players will need better food and potions, and I’m perfectly fine with that. However, I’m strongly against allowing NPCs to sell anything that undermines player crafting or selling. If you want to craft it yourself, go for it. If you want to buy from a player, even better. But vendors should not be selling better food or potions, as it takes away from the player-driven economy.
  • AdelissaAdelissa Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Kalnazzar wrote: »
    Song13 wrote: »
    I'm with the OP to an extent. the main argument isn't really the mana regen in combat that is the major problem. the major problem is the fact that rations aren't giving back much at higher levels. ideally it'd be nice if vendors could sell better food or something at like level 10 so it doesn't take 4 ration packs to get back to full which does take a very long time of sitting. the sitting regen out of combat also takes like 2-4mins thats a ton of time to just sit there to regen ur mana when out of combat. especially if you are a class that doesn't do very well on their own in terms of regen or healing urself. if you fight 2 mobs and then have to sit for 3 or so mins to regen everything back that is a bit much. now yes cooking profession could change a lot of this. better foods could regen faster but that relies on markets and such usually

    I agree that at higher levels, players will need better food and potions, and I’m perfectly fine with that. However, I’m strongly against allowing NPCs to sell anything that undermines player crafting or selling. If you want to craft it yourself, go for it. If you want to buy from a player, even better. But vendors should not be selling better food or potions, as it takes away from the player-driven economy.

    Sir this is an alpha, not a game. We need placeholder items until crafting is fleshed out.
    Adelissa | Guild Master | Heathen Lords
    avlegukgqhk0.png
  • Lark WyllLark Wyll Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Halae wrote: »
    The trick behind this is to encourage you to bring along a support class. I can't remember if clerics get a mana restore option, but I know for certain that bards do in the form of one of their songs that can be picked up as early as level 2.

    If it feels like you're lacking recovery, that's intentional. It's to encourage you to bring a support player.

    This simply isn't a viable idea for levelling on live launch of an mmo. Group play comes in later towards end game. Players don't group up to clear low level content and clear levels.

    What does a player do that starts the game a month after everyone else advances through the game? They have to be able to play solo with basic quality of life and bot have it be a terriblr experience and take way too much time.

    Support classes shouldn't be required to level. They should be required only for group oriented end game content or group poi or boss fights or mob farming optional.
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  • TrikkiTrikki Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 27
    Love it just the way it is personally. The rush to end game mentality needs to not exist in one game, hoping this is it.
  • Song13Song13 Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Trikki wrote: »
    Love it just the way it is personally. The rush to end game mentality needs to not exist in one game, hoping this is it.
    I agree but that is only a good thing when a game makes the leveling content rich and exciting as well. As ashes plans to try and do.
  • AdelissaAdelissa Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Lark Wyll wrote: »
    Halae wrote: »
    The trick behind this is to encourage you to bring along a support class. I can't remember if clerics get a mana restore option, but I know for certain that bards do in the form of one of their songs that can be picked up as early as level 2.

    If it feels like you're lacking recovery, that's intentional. It's to encourage you to bring a support player.

    This simply isn't a viable idea for levelling on live launch of an mmo. Group play comes in later towards end game. Players don't group up to clear low level content and clear levels.

    What does a player do that starts the game a month after everyone else advances through the game? They have to be able to play solo with basic quality of life and bot have it be a terriblr experience and take way too much time.

    Support classes shouldn't be required to level. They should be required only for group oriented end game content or group poi or boss fights or mob farming optional.

    This is definitely a concern once we're able to test higher levels in phase 3. We'll actually get to see what happens when someone joins the test six months in and is level 1 while everyone else is doing higher level content. It will be interesting to see how they keep these low level POI's relevant.
    Adelissa | Guild Master | Heathen Lords
    avlegukgqhk0.png
  • GrumpyOldKnightGrumpyOldKnight Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I agree, Mana regeneration out of combat is a little to slow. I wouldn't want to to much faster, foods and rest are how you get it done quickly, but just while out of combat it should regen a little faster, just don't do a 180 and make it too fast.
  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 27
    seems fine to me it like 10-20 seconds to be full mana/hp with one or 2 rations (3c from vendor). Makes bard feel important in groups not to mention many weapons/classes seem to have ways to return mana in the skill tree.

    if your constantly needing to rest/eat rations you either undergeared or under levels for what your trying to kill
  • VissoxVissox Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 27
    Disagree entirely. Mana management matters, bring a bard, eat rations and get good.
  • CaerylCaeryl Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I agree with the OP, especially in the Alpha's current state where there are very, very few truly safe areas with the current rate enemies respawn at. 4 mana/s when you have 1k+ mana just isn't gonna cut it when you're in a threat zone with mobs respawning constantly.

    Up in the garrison area near spawn is a great example of why its current state is insufficient for exploration. You can clear the entire upper area, but five seconds later things have respawned again. There are no safe areas to rest and regroup due to the spawn pattern, and areas don't stay cleared for more than 30 seconds, during which you'd only restore ~120 mana anyway.

    The nearest 'safe' area is back at spawn, or a small area on the outside wall of the area under the bridge.
  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    Vissox wrote: »
    Disagree entirely. Mana management matters, bring a bard, eat rations and get good.

    weapon skill tree get mana regen skill as an option aswell, atleast bows had it and i think mace aswell
  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    Caeryl wrote: »
    I agree with the OP, especially in the Alpha's current state where there are very, very few truly safe areas with the current rate enemies respawn at. 4 mana/s when you have 1k+ mana just isn't gonna cut it when you're in a threat zone with mobs respawning constantly.

    Up in the garrison area near spawn is a great example of why its current state is insufficient for exploration. You can clear the entire upper area, but five seconds later things have respawned again. There are no safe areas to rest and regroup due to the spawn pattern, and areas don't stay cleared for more than 30 seconds, during which you'd only restore ~120 mana anyway.

    The nearest 'safe' area is back at spawn, or a small area on the outside wall of the area under the bridge.

    rations is % mana/HP return and takes 2 rations to go from 0-100% and each ration is 10 seconds and 3 copper mana regen isnt an issue.
  • CaerylCaeryl Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Veeshan wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    I agree with the OP, especially in the Alpha's current state where there are very, very few truly safe areas with the current rate enemies respawn at. 4 mana/s when you have 1k+ mana just isn't gonna cut it when you're in a threat zone with mobs respawning constantly.

    Up in the garrison area near spawn is a great example of why its current state is insufficient for exploration. You can clear the entire upper area, but five seconds later things have respawned again. There are no safe areas to rest and regroup due to the spawn pattern, and areas don't stay cleared for more than 30 seconds, during which you'd only restore ~120 mana anyway.

    The nearest 'safe' area is back at spawn, or a small area on the outside wall of the area under the bridge.

    rations is % mana/HP return and takes 2 rations to go from 0-100% and each ration is 10 seconds and 3 copper mana regen isnt an issue.

    Read the quoted post again. It isn't just the amount, but the lack of opportunity and slowness that the regen occurs. We're meant to take it slow between fights, which is good. The issue comes when you genuinely are prevented from doing so because of the lack of areas out of aggro range and the respawn rates in many areas being far too generous.

    If we get word that respawn rates will be heavily slowed, then that'll change my opinion, but as is, in a lot of places, esp quest areas or any other high threat location, you can't sit in place for 20-30 seconds waiting for mana to recover to full, because something will spawn and aggro.
  • ShivaFangShivaFang Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 27
    Adelissa wrote: »
    Halae wrote: »
    The trick behind this is to encourage you to bring along a support class. I can't remember if clerics get a mana restore option, but I know for certain that bards do in the form of one of their songs that can be picked up as early as level 2.

    If it feels like you're lacking recovery, that's intentional. It's to encourage you to bring a support player.

    We have a bard in our party, 2 mana per second from their song isn't enough for extended stays at POI's.

    At level 5, the bard gets resonant weapon. Your bard should be attacking the targets with their weapon pretty much the entire fight. At level 10 my pensive melody gives 4/second and then ~50 Mana to one player every weapon combo.
    One bard is not enough to keep the mana at full constantly,, you will still have to rest just less often. 2 bards with pensive melody attacking most of the fight will keep the mana mostly full.

    Honestly, melodies are 'illusion of choice', since it's pretty much a requirement to go pensive melody, even if there's a 2nd bard in the party, and the requirement to be attacking with your weapon makes spells with longer casting times irrelevant.
  • pyrealpyreal Member, Warrior of Old, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Kalnazzar wrote: »
    Adelissa wrote: »
    Kalnazzar wrote: »

    Rations are a low tier food why would they restore mana to full? Games were mana isn’t a resource that needs managing this would make sense any food would fully restore it. But a full mana restore should be saved for end tier food/potions ect. If not higher tier/quality stuff would be pointless to craft if something as simple as rations can do the same function.

    You're just wrong here. We don't currently have many higher tier foods. Low level rations should work for low level characters and restore them to full. It's a system that's tedious and outdated and does nothing but inconvenience the player currently.

    You know there's a rest buff that restores 4 mana, right? Just press the 'X' key on your keyboard (it’s the default). Also, it's not outdated—new MMORPG players are often in a rush, wanting infinite mana to keep going nonstop. That’s not how old-school players enjoyed the game. We liked to stop, rest, and regroup—taking time to plan the next move, talk, and laugh together as a team. Nowadays, like in WoW, players often don’t even talk in dungeons—it’s just a race to the end, which creates a toxic gameplay environment in my opinion. p94mtvyoug9y.png

    Thanks
  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 27
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Veeshan wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    I agree with the OP, especially in the Alpha's current state where there are very, very few truly safe areas with the current rate enemies respawn at. 4 mana/s when you have 1k+ mana just isn't gonna cut it when you're in a threat zone with mobs respawning constantly.

    Up in the garrison area near spawn is a great example of why its current state is insufficient for exploration. You can clear the entire upper area, but five seconds later things have respawned again. There are no safe areas to rest and regroup due to the spawn pattern, and areas don't stay cleared for more than 30 seconds, during which you'd only restore ~120 mana anyway.

    The nearest 'safe' area is back at spawn, or a small area on the outside wall of the area under the bridge.

    rations is % mana/HP return and takes 2 rations to go from 0-100% and each ration is 10 seconds and 3 copper mana regen isnt an issue.

    Read the quoted post again. It isn't just the amount, but the lack of opportunity and slowness that the regen occurs. We're meant to take it slow between fights, which is good. The issue comes when you genuinely are prevented from doing so because of the lack of areas out of aggro range and the respawn rates in many areas being far too generous.

    If we get word that respawn rates will be heavily slowed, then that'll change my opinion, but as is, in a lot of places, esp quest areas or any other high threat location, you can't sit in place for 20-30 seconds waiting for mana to recover to full, because something will spawn and aggro.

    i use a bow i took the mana skill (seems like all weapons have this option) on the weapon instead of a dmg skill i now regain 25 mana every 4 attacks basicly never have mana issues now dispite spamming skills
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I'm on Vyra server playing a Bard. Anyone is gaming having this problem. Pls DM me. My wife plays a Mage and she goes where I go :)
  • CaerylCaeryl Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Veeshan wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Veeshan wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    I agree with the OP, especially in the Alpha's current state where there are very, very few truly safe areas with the current rate enemies respawn at. 4 mana/s when you have 1k+ mana just isn't gonna cut it when you're in a threat zone with mobs respawning constantly.

    Up in the garrison area near spawn is a great example of why its current state is insufficient for exploration. You can clear the entire upper area, but five seconds later things have respawned again. There are no safe areas to rest and regroup due to the spawn pattern, and areas don't stay cleared for more than 30 seconds, during which you'd only restore ~120 mana anyway.

    The nearest 'safe' area is back at spawn, or a small area on the outside wall of the area under the bridge.

    rations is % mana/HP return and takes 2 rations to go from 0-100% and each ration is 10 seconds and 3 copper mana regen isnt an issue.

    Read the quoted post again. It isn't just the amount, but the lack of opportunity and slowness that the regen occurs. We're meant to take it slow between fights, which is good. The issue comes when you genuinely are prevented from doing so because of the lack of areas out of aggro range and the respawn rates in many areas being far too generous.

    If we get word that respawn rates will be heavily slowed, then that'll change my opinion, but as is, in a lot of places, esp quest areas or any other high threat location, you can't sit in place for 20-30 seconds waiting for mana to recover to full, because something will spawn and aggro.

    i use a bow i took the mana skill (seems like all weapons have this option) on the weapon instead of a dmg skill i now regain 25 mana every 4 attacks basicly never have mana issues now dispite spamming skills

    I find it hard to believe that just the one mana passive was sufficient, as mana problems have been a consistent issue I've seen within groups. Even for me after taking that same passive on mage, I was having to fall back often to recoup mana. Most players in the various groups I've been in were hovering at half their max, as opportunities for recovery required leaving the area entirely in most cases.

    The only place it stopped being an issue was on the far upper bridges of the garrison, because the corrupted 9th NPCs dropped mana orbs on death that restored 200-250 mana when walking into it, but even then it was only for one person.
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