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Will Streamers Take Over Our Servers?

BlipBlip Member, Alpha Two
Dear Intrepid Team,

First and foremost, I want to express my excitement and appreciation for all the hard work you’re putting into this incredible project. It's evident that you’re creating something truly special, and the vision for a dynamic, immersive world is inspiring. With that said, I have a suggestion that I hope you’ll consider in order to protect and enhance the experience for a wide range of players.

As we’ve seen in other games, influential content creators and streamers have a unique impact on server dynamics. While their contributions to community engagement and visibility are undeniable, there’s a growing concern that servers heavily populated by streamers can unintentionally shift the focus from organic, player-driven development to something more performance-oriented. In these cases, gameplay can feel less about exploring or building a cohesive in-game world and more like a backdrop for content creation, sometimes even leaving regular players feeling like props in someone else's storyline.

In fact, we’re already seeing this trend with content creators taking on influential roles as mayors on multiple servers, effectively carving out ownership of nodes. While they undoubtedly invest in their communities, this ownership can create environments where players feel overshadowed or pressured by the content-driven goals of these leaders. It can be challenging for regular players who wish to contribute to node development or play a more significant role in their community, only to find themselves feeling sidelined by high-profile influencers.

A possible solution, which I believe could benefit everyone, would be to create separate servers specifically for content creators and their communities. This approach would allow streamers and their followers to engage in a world where they can comfortably pursue content-driven interactions, while other players who prefer a more organic and unstructured experience can enjoy the game on regular servers without feeling influenced by the pressures of public viewership.

This distinction could serve the following goals:

Improved enjoyment for all players: For those who play for escapism, immersion, or purely for personal goals, a regular server ensures they aren’t inadvertently involved in someone else’s content. Meanwhile, streamer-focused servers allow creators to freely engage with their audience in a way that enhances their own and their followers' experience.

Freedom from unintended pressure: In an environment heavily influenced by content creators, regular players may feel that their actions or choices are part of a performance. This could hinder the natural development of the game world, leading to interactions and achievements that cater more to an audience than to authentic in-game progress.

More balanced dynamics: Streamers are often naturally gifted at gathering communities, and that influence can significantly shape a server’s culture, economy, and politics. In regular servers, the development of guilds, alliances, and rivalries would likely unfold in a way that's shaped by all players, rather than by the needs of content-driven entertainment.

I want to clarify that this suggestion comes from a place of respect and appreciation for content creators. Their work contributes immensely to the visibility and excitement around games, and I have no issue with their role in the community. However, I believe that maintaining separate servers for them could ultimately lead to a richer, more balanced experience for everyone.

Thank you for considering this suggestion, and for all the work you do to make this world a place we’re all eager to be a part of!
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Comments

  • I am glad more and more players are bringing the concerns for Zerg guilds in the forums, so Intrepid can take this seriously and come up with some solution.
  • BlipBlip Member, Alpha Two
    I've been watching YouTube today, and apparently, on one U.S. server, all nodes are held by content creators who are collaborating to shape the world how they want.

    I'm not saying it's wrong; just saying it's an example of what I'm talking about. And at some point, it will be about the views.
  • OrcLuckOrcLuck Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 29
    This is a fair complaint, but I think it can only be truly solved via systems. If zerg guilds weren't simply a feature of social cohesive player patterns...that are endorsed and enabled by MMO design. Then you wouldn't have such a big oof moment. When a zerg guild funnels all assets towards a streamer, and then they break through content first...sharing all of it to the world. It limits the amount of time that asset's value will last. That's why my suggestion is to take an intentional role, to try and limit it via inherit systems design.

    My recommendation is having loot goblin assassins try to steal Guild Leader resources, and make them hunt them down. Give the streamers a different kind of content to use up, and a frustrating piece of homework to try and dominate by hording resources in one account.

    That would also be a sort of status symbol...you can only hunt loot goblins if you've got the loot after all.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    To me this is literally nothing different from a powerful guild doing the exact same thing. And the game is built around strong guilds doing strong guild things.

    If anything, strong guilds are scarier than streamer hordes, because those guilds are usually way more organized and have people who are way more dedicated to the guild's success overall, rather than just the leader's.

    I also fail to see how the impact on other players is different. If a group of people is stopping me from doing content - I couldn't care less why they're doing it or for whom. I just need to prevent them from stopping me.

    People enfroce metanarrative onto themselves and then complain that there is a metanarrative in the game.
  • Blip wrote: »
    I've been watching YouTube today, and apparently, on one U.S. server, all nodes are held by content creators who are collaborating to shape the world how they want.

    I'm not saying it's wrong; just saying it's an example of what I'm talking about. And at some point, it will be about the views.

    What server?
    zrp01jc5ucrx.jpg
  • BlipBlip Member, Alpha Two
    Blip wrote: »
    I've been watching YouTube today, and apparently, on one U.S. server, all nodes are held by content creators who are collaborating to shape the world how they want.

    I'm not saying it's wrong; just saying it's an example of what I'm talking about. And at some point, it will be about the views.

    What server?

    Lyneth
  • Uncommon SenseUncommon Sense Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    just let them have their server and watch it fall off in about a month as the views for the new hype wave disappears ...
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Zerg is a play style but it's not the only valid one. As you level your guild you earn points. You get to pick two ways to do that. One grow how many people you can add to your guild or spend points on making your members more powerful. Buffs that do everything from damage increases, skills durations longer like dots and char skills that buff. Buffs that make you craft better pots, weapons and armor. Small guilds will have bigger teeth. This all needs to be tested to see if it balances things out. I will say this, large guilds better have people that show up when they face a smaller guilds fully buffed with guild buffs.
  • RocketFarmerRocketFarmer Member, Alpha Two
    Are we thinking casual solo players are running nodes?

    Putting the MMO back in MMORPG means larger groups. Streams will be part of that. Fortunately there should be enough servers and nodes to spread things out. If the problem is that all of the nodes are full on all of the servers, then you have a successful game. Right now in Alpha 2 there are a total of 30 nodes. Very easy to have streamers and large guilds fill that up.

    Git gud, find frens.
  • Uncommon SenseUncommon Sense Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Just make upkeep/tax exponential and zerg groups/mega guilds will not be viable without massive logistics and management...

    It's not the difficult to impose self regulation factors that keep organised group dynamics healthy...
  • Blip wrote: »
    Blip wrote: »
    I've been watching YouTube today, and apparently, on one U.S. server, all nodes are held by content creators who are collaborating to shape the world how they want.

    I'm not saying it's wrong; just saying it's an example of what I'm talking about. And at some point, it will be about the views.

    What server?

    Lyneth

    will def avoid, ty for the response
    zrp01jc5ucrx.jpg
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    just let them have their server and watch it fall off in about a month as the views for the new hype wave disappears ...

    This is the correct response.

    Streamers won't be in Ashes long term - not if they want an audience. This game is too niche to provide the viewers they need.
  • NemesesNemeses Member
    edited October 30
    How would you possibly police this, let’s say AoC set servers 1 to 18 as streamer servers, how would you stop someone joining server 19, with player followers and set up a steaming guild?
    The Immortals
    • We Lived a Thousand Lives, United we Stand.
    • Recruitment
  • Noaani wrote: »
    just let them have their server and watch it fall off in about a month as the views for the new hype wave disappears ...

    This is the correct response.

    Streamers won't be in Ashes long term - not if they want an audience. This game is too niche to provide the viewers they need.

    What are you about, I would guess this is about the most, or close to followed MMO.

    This game will have a huge audience base.

    More drivel from the clueless
    The Immortals
    • We Lived a Thousand Lives, United we Stand.
    • Recruitment
  • Just make upkeep/tax exponential and zerg groups/mega guilds will not be viable without massive logistics and management...

    It's not the difficult to impose self regulation factors that keep organised group dynamics healthy...

    More utter nonsense

    The Immortals
    • We Lived a Thousand Lives, United we Stand.
    • Recruitment
  • i think thet server for content creators is good idia, they will fight with each other with thear followers. i think it intresting moment for both of them, and for those who watch twitch... its like realyty show))) but how to fight against zergs idk how.
    perhaps there should be mechanics in which the larger the roster, the greater the responsibility and production of large zerg, becomes such a tasty morsel that it attracts the attention of all players on the server.
  • Uncommon SenseUncommon Sense Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Nemeses wrote: »
    Just make upkeep/tax exponential and zerg groups/mega guilds will not be viable without massive logistics and management...

    It's not the difficult to impose self regulation factors that keep organised group dynamics healthy...

    More utter nonsense

    Not nonsense, Uncommon Sense...

    Keep the uttering to yourself it suits you...
  • GithalGithal Member
    edited October 30
    Noaani wrote: »
    just let them have their server and watch it fall off in about a month as the views for the new hype wave disappears ...

    This is the correct response.

    Streamers won't be in Ashes long term - not if they want an audience. This game is too niche to provide the viewers they need.

    Correct response for what exactly?
    This is not solution for the problem at hand. You just saying:
    "Get oppressed by Streamers in your server for couple of months, Have some miserable experience all the time, AND AFTER THIS, after they leave you will enjoy your EMPTY server that has no players left coz they followed the streamer, and now you need to merge to another server"

    Get real and think of the consequences. Coz Intrepid has to take this seriously if we want a great experience.
    And they wont if you keep telling BS.
  • Uncommon SenseUncommon Sense Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    The player has the option to try and join the "streamer server" or an alternative. The streamers will make clear what the server will be...

    It happens with any multiplayer online game in this day and age. Weather you like it or not streamers are entitled to engage with the game while providing publicity for Intrepid.

    Intrepid will have some sever merge system in place irrespective of which servers and for what circumstances deem a merge required...

    If you feel oppressed by streamers that's a you problem for choosing the wrong server.

    That is the get real situation and consequences. Your experience is your own responsibility.
  • Uncommon SenseUncommon Sense Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Nemeses wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    just let them have their server and watch it fall off in about a month as the views for the new hype wave disappears ...

    This is the correct response.

    Streamers won't be in Ashes long term - not if they want an audience. This game is too niche to provide the viewers they need.

    What are you about, I would guess this is about the most, or close to followed MMO.

    This game will have a huge audience base.

    More drivel from the clueless

    seeing as you joined the forums in 2022 let me inform you that some members you are calling clueless have answered the same questions multiple times since the kickstarter and forums were updated and refreshed...

  • AsmodeusAsmodeus Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 31
    At least during the release, if streamer nodes have many resources, they are likely to be invaded by nearby coalitions from other cities or guilds, who are as above mentioned, probaly far more dangerous than a mountain of low level players. The number of metropolises in this vast landscape are also very limited, meaning many other streamers will likely want to get their hands on one as well, this could potentially lead them to fight one another, creating a fascinating and unique storyline in itself.

    I believe the alpha is an exception when it comes to streamer servers and nodes being at peace. There are currently only five nodes on each server, with no real need for war or conflict over resources and territory.

    I also believe there is no proper way to 'fix' this issue without negatively impacting larger groups of players who are not streamers. The best solution for players is to avoid these servers altogether.




  • yianni_LoDyianni_LoD Member, Alpha Two
    Avoid the streamer servers

    Carebears are already trying to change Ashes.

    DON'T LISTEN, Intrepid!
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited October 31
    Nemeses wrote: »
    This game will have a huge audience base.

    It really won't.

    If it matches Archeage in popularity (either at launch or as time goes on) I'll be surprised.

    While Archeage was fairly big for a PvP MMORPG, it was always small as an MMORPG in general.

    Ashes may well be the biggest MMORPG with a PvP focus in the west, but that will still pale in comparison to MMORPG's that are less PvP focused.

    Steven says this is a niche game, and he is right.

    Edit; with the required number of players to keep any given server active, I'll be closely following the game to see how quickly regional servers get abandoned (I expect the Oceania server to last no more than 18 months). It will also be interesting to see how quickly the game gets reduced down to 2 or 3 NA servers, and 1 or 2 EU servers.

    My guess is 3 years.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited October 31
    Githal wrote: »
    You just saying:
    "Get oppressed by Streamers in your server for couple of months, Have some miserable experience all the time, AND AFTER THIS, after they leave you will enjoy your EMPTY server that has no players left coz they followed the streamer, and now you need to merge to another server"
    Well, yeah.

    Streamers aren't going to make it to the level cap in large numbers, nor will their audience. They don't have the attention span for that.

    Just ignore them and get on about your own gameplay.

    Also, lets not ignore the fact that if you have the dual issue of all servers being taken over by streamers, and also of the servers ending up empty when streamers leave, then there's no real point to any of this, is there?

    So, either one of those two things won't be true (either of them not being true means you can ignore streamers), or the game will only survive while it attracts streamers so your best bet is to join them.
  • KilionKilion Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 31
    Me wrote:
    Here are my thoughts on this:
    • I refuse to play on a server where people with commercial interest are. Not only because I think that the worst motivation to play a game is commercial interest, but also because I refuse to be an unpaid participant of their show business. I did not consent to providing them with content for their program.
    • That is why I have been advocating for (still doing it), that Intrepid will give me the tools to play the game on a server where only people who just want to play a good MMO are present (either by barring streaming and recording tools on these servers or by marking servers with big streamers so I can avoid them). I want to play the game for the sake of the game that Intrepid is putting painstakingly together, not because someone else is paying them to generate uninvolved third party entertainment.
    • There still will be servers where big streamers will take control over a portion of the server. As long as I can avoid these servers, I am fine with that. And while I doubt that 1 streamer community can take over an entire server, I think that if they actually are able to achieve that, they will basically ruin themselves that way. Because with one person being basically the "gamemaster" of the server with everyone else in tow, conflicts as the driver of it all will be so heavily skewed that nothing will work right IMO.

    I really cant stress this enough, I don't think it is reasonable to assume that people waiting for years to play this game have to become subject to the ingame actions of someone who is not primarily driven by the enjoyment of gaming, but the commercial interest of entertaining others on a different platform. I HEAVILY despise that people could currently use me without consent, without payment as an extra for their entertainment show.

    I play games because I enjoy experiencing what other people build, I write Campaigns for TTRPGs because I want people to have fun immersing themselves in the world I created. But the moment someone tries to commercialize that gameplay, their whole priority of decision making shifts, it is no longer about playing the game, it is about making whatever maintains or increases views/subscribers, which depending on those followers often enough means doing irrational, aggressive and unsocial things because outrage and the thrill of the forbidden (and edging towards that) sells.

    I DON'T WANT TO BE MADE PART OF THIS.

    Especially not in my free time, where I want to get away from the real world for a change. And the solution is easy. Mark servers for meant for streamers to make their thing on and let those who want to game in peace amongst other players with no commericial interest have a space of their own, where they are not reduced to involuntary assets of someone elses show. Just like the servers that at lauch will be marked for early starters. People just want to make informed decisions about important stuff. And being amongst people who are just there to play the game with nothing outside to gain from it, seems like a huge thing.

    Edit: To clarify, I have no issues with big guilds. If people manage to organize their large numbers, that is perfectly fine with me. Doing all of that however because they get paid for it, rather than anyone else pay-to-play, that's where I draw the line. To them it is a whole different game, they don't care whether something they build up is destroyed, its all content, they get paid either way.
    The answer is probably >>> HERE <<<
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    So create a mega-guild that's purely focused on Streamer Murder. Watch their videos to find out where they are, and then make it impossible for them to make their videos.
    Just be prepared the army of zombies that follow them to throw themselves at you.


    Or, just accept it as part of modern gaming, and try to enjoy your own game-time with your friends.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


    giphy-downsized-large.gif?cid=b603632fp2svffcmdi83yynpfpexo413mpb1qzxnh3cei0nx&ep=v1_gifs_gifId&rid=giphy-downsized-large.gif&ct=s
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Kilion wrote: »
    I really cant stress this enough, I don't think it is reasonable to assume that people waiting for years to play this game have to become subject to the ingame actions of someone who is not primarily driven by the enjoyment of gaming, but the commercial interest of entertaining others on a different platform.

    Streamers and their audience have the same "rights" to the game as you and I do. They have just as much right to enjoy Ashes in their own way as we do.

    The fact that Ashes is a game where others can fairly significantly negatively impact your own experience is something those of us that have been here a long time should be well aware of, and so those that have been here the longest have the least validity to any complaints in this regard.
  • BlipBlip Member, Alpha Two
    Asmodeus wrote: »
    At least during the release, if streamer nodes have many resources, they are likely to be invaded by nearby coalitions from other cities or guilds, who are as above mentioned, probaly far more dangerous than a mountain of low level players. The number of metropolises in this vast landscape are also very limited, meaning many other streamers will likely want to get their hands on one as well, this could potentially lead them to fight one another, creating a fascinating and unique storyline in itself.

    I believe the alpha is an exception when it comes to streamer servers and nodes being at peace. There are currently only five nodes on each server, with no real need for war or conflict over resources and territory.

    I also believe there is no proper way to 'fix' this issue without negatively impacting larger groups of players who are not streamers. The best solution for players is to avoid these servers altogether.




    If you want to avoid them then Intrepid need to designate servers for and not for streamers.
  • Noaani wrote: »
    Nemeses wrote: »
    This game will have a huge audience base.

    It really won't.

    If it matches Archeage in popularity (either at launch or as time goes on) I'll be surprised.

    While Archeage was fairly big for a PvP MMORPG, it was always small as an MMORPG in general.

    Ashes may well be the biggest MMORPG with a PvP focus in the west, but that will still pale in comparison to MMORPG's that are less PvP focused.

    Steven says this is a niche game, and he is right.

    Edit; with the required number of players to keep any given server active, I'll be closely following the game to see how quickly regional servers get abandoned (I expect the Oceania server to last no more than 18 months). It will also be interesting to see how quickly the game gets reduced down to 2 or 3 NA servers, and 1 or 2 EU servers.

    My guess is 3 years.

    Pretty sure there will be core group of players that will stick to the game.

    TBH i have always wondered why people play PVE focused MMORPG games. And the answers i reached were that: The PVP in those game sucks and has no PVP content, The players have no Skill and dont want to feel like they are bad when they lose in pvp, so they play PVE where they have 0% chance to lose since the content is for brain dead people.

    But i am yet to find the answer how can doing the exact same pve content for the 200th time be any interesting for a person? I mean why do this instead play some RPG game or whatever.
  • LaetitianLaetitian Member
    edited October 31
    Ludullu wrote: »
    To me this is literally nothing different from a powerful guild doing the exact same thing. And the game is built around strong guilds doing strong guild things.
    Strong guilds are united by shared goals, or at least compatible personalities. Streamer guilds are united by a king crowned through parasocial relationships. Making his clan's actions less representative of real people's interests, and more like mindless drones executing the will of their overlord.
    It's just less interesting for the server realm's community at large to engage with that. I'd rather play against people who care about the results of their plans, not just making streamerdaddy happy.
    Githal wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    just let them have their server and watch it fall off in about a month as the views for the new hype wave disappears ...

    This is the correct response.

    Streamers won't be in Ashes long term - not if they want an audience. This game is too niche to provide the viewers they need.
    Correct response for what exactly?
    This is not solution for the problem at hand. You just saying:
    "Get oppressed by Streamers in your server for couple of months, Have some miserable experience all the time, AND AFTER THIS, after they leave you will enjoy your EMPTY server that has no players left coz they followed the streamer, and now you need to merge to another server"

    Get real and think of the consequences. Coz Intrepid has to take this seriously if we want a great experience.
    And they wont if you keep telling BS.
    No, the quoted comment by Uncommon Sense hits the nail on the head. Make it easy for players to join server realms that don't have large streamers on them, and it'll be fine. There will be a lot of server realms, and several streamers will likely join the same ones anyway. As long as you and your existing community make sure you don't join on the server realms that the top streamers start playing on, you'll mostly be interacting with real guilds.
    The only one who can validate you for all the posts you didn't write is you.
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