Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
Maybe you didn't think about it at all, but in your scenario big streamer guy is the one being an ass
This just sounds like a retroactive attempt to excuse poor escalation managment.
A permanent KoS Order is the most severe action against an oponent you can take at this time (no node seiging are implemented yet) and I've never heard of Apex even controling any nodes that would even be viable targets, or having allies which could be intimidated into abandoing them etc. It is essentially the 'Nuclear option' in Pirates retaliation spectrum at this time (atleast in terms of responses which would not risk punishment by Intrepid). Given that Pirates had maxed out their response immediatly, they gave Apex no reason to not likewise escalate, and essentially Pirates were left with no additional response to this claimed mass-reporting other then to sware a more 'eternal' vendetta, a nebulus concept in this highly fluid alpha environment for a game years from release. Wise escalation managment means that even when applying hurt on your advasary you always clearly communicate to them you have additional level/s of hurt you can pile on so that a 'back down or else ...' has something in it other then ...
Now I think it's very clear to everyone that Pirates response is all about signaling to 3rd parties rather then actually disiplining the behavior of Apex. They want to project the Porcupine defence, anyone who touches them will recive a disproportionate retaliation, and crushing a fly with a hammer is an obvious way to do so. I don't think anyone missed that message, many are even explicity praising it, but I for one clearly picked up an additional message, that Pirates are unsopfisticated in their force calibration.
They stream sniped.
If you stream snipe once, there is nothing at all to stop you doing it again. Thus, while a streamer in a game like Ashes needs to be aware that they will sometimes be sniped, a permanant KoS order on any guild that does so is an appropriate response.
It isn't butt hurt as some people are suggesting in this thread - it is perfectly appropriate.
It is the response I would have had in that situation.
If you want to say it is them sending a message to other guilds, that's fine, you can think of it that way. However, that message is "if you stream snipe us, we will perma KoS your guild" - and that is a valid response.
After the initial attack: Thor said to to gather the PVP members of Pirates to kick Apex down. A jolly bit of disproportionate response fighting. A common thing if coming from a game like EVE.
When Mec made the "<3 we won't loot" n/ "love you" in public chat is when Thor assumes stream sniping, and timed the attack with when he was bug reporting. This is when Thor called for the permanent shit list. But clarified in further conversations with Khronos that they were open to the option of parley and diplomacy through concessions.
Vlad was a spawn camp of convince, as the the respawn point was the rally point for the Pirates outside the cave.
Pirates were aware of potential corruption of respawn camping and stopped after Vlad is killed 4 times to prevent getting it. It is not shown if Vlad respawns another time for a potential 5th death.
Only once Vlad whispered to Thor that Apex was attempting a mass reporting was the KoS made irremovable.
Sorry that you don't like it.
<Actual Pirates XLI>
Big streamer guy gets killed in PvP game, returns favor by PvPing said people. Said people say the big streamer is being a baby unironically posted in a 5 page threat said people made crying about it in general chat. Unless you can point me to Pirate's thread in general chat crying about PvP happening in a PvP game.
I mean you can frame it however you want. It's still some dude with a mindless hoard severely over-retaliating against a small group for one PvP death. The guy doesn't have to make a thread for people to see it's all a tantrum about getting killed. Actions speak louder than words, as the saying goes
You spelled cheapest and best advertisement for games wrong.
(On that note, maybe I'm a boomer here on this; but I will never understand the allure of watching someone else play video games when you could just play the game yourself)
Streamers aren't that good for advertising an MMORPG.
They are, however, great for marketing single player games - especially indie ones.
Saying things doesn't make them true. You cannot with a straight face tell me that big name content creators are less effective than... what? Banner ads on mmorpg.com?
You live in an alternate dimension.
For an MMORPG, yes.
There are exceptions, but most streamers these days jump between games fairly frequently, and their audience follows them.
Since the goal of an MMORPG developer is to maintain a population, and since streamers and their audience are by their very nature rather transient, it isn't that good a fit.
Banner adds are pointless, this is true.
The best advertising for an MMORPG that I am aware of is word of mouth. For example, Steven made a single post on these forums years ago that immediately put tens of thousands of people off this game for good. While the result isn't what Intrepid want, one can't argue the effectiveness of getting the word out.
This is a pretty off take, as you don't seem to be familiar with the streaming landscape - as well as making a pretty wild assumption on the behavior of viewers based on this already false take.
1.) Most streamers are not variety streams - some of the biggest streamers might be, however exposure to the games/games looking fun are what cause people to try games. Obviously the variety streamers are the biggest streamers for a very obvious reason - they can get viewers tapping into new player bases, where more dedicated streamers don't.
2.) Why do you think people switch games because a streamer they watch does? Let's take for instance Diablo Immortal. How many of Darth Transactions' viewers swapped to Diablo IV when he started playing it? Do you think all of Zizeran's viewers also quit playing PoE everytime he plays a new ARPG? Asmongold logged into this game, do you think all his WoW fanbase is picking up the Alpha packages and cancelling their sub? It's simply a matter of exposure. It's simply a matter of exposing people to something that looks like something they'd enjoy. When streamers play a game it doesn't feel manipulative, unlike ads, or even worse game journalism/reviews. Games pop off on platforms like steam because of good reviews combined with increasing popularity, causing the up and coming games to flare up due to EXPOSURE. Just like games get exposure from seeing the list of games currently streaming. By your very logic - if viewers hard locked into whatever streamers were playing - you'd be proving me right in the first place by acknowledging their influence.
Streamers simply help with the primary driver, Exposure. Even word of mouth is literally just a form of exposure. A Streamer's good word for a game is just as valuable as a random review/mention somewhere else. I admit that I think it's weird how people like watching people watch streams instead of playing games - but you just seem to not understand streaming in general, nor it's effect on the games you play. I hope this clears things up for you, It literally doesn't matter if your opinion changes or not. Like Tim Minchin once said; "which makes me think there's hope... that maybe they'll think gravity is 'just a theory' and float (insert colorful language) away."
Keep in mind though, I have said several times I am talking about MMORPG's specifically, and you just rattled off a whole list of games, most of which are not MMORPG's. The only MMORPG you listed was in reference to people NOT leaving it because of a streamer.
Some games do indeed "pop off" on Steam due to exposure from streamers - but not MMORPG's.
I mean, feel free to prove me wrong - tell us all the big budget MMORPG that "popped of" because of streamers.
This is my opinion, and I dont have feelings about pirate one way or the other. I am a software engineer, I believe he is too, and I just hate listening to other software engineers outside of a work emvironment.
The bit about your group not knowing he was there seems false to me. They literally said 'We wont loot you' and 'love you'. My opinion is they knew who he was, that doesnt seem like something someone would say otherwise.
The bit about 'we had no way of knowing it was him' also false as he was streaming so that is a clear way to have known about it. Saying you dont watch streamers doesnt mean that way of knowing doesnt exist as you could simply be lying. Not accusing here, but your statement isnt accurate.
'No reports were made' so are you saying he is lying about being contacted by one of your guild mates? I believe pirate here.
Your ages and relation to the party are irrelevant. The actions causing the conflict are all that matters in a game with pvp.
If you are gonna quote Steven, quote the bit how he said this incident was okay while you are at it.
Reading that last bit is sounding to me like avoiding accountability and trying to slander pirate. You guys killed him, thats the incident he saw as the leader of a huge guild. This is the game you play when you attack people. Lets say everything you said is 100% the truth, you still attacked him. Every time you kill someone you risk this, its literally just the prime example of you f'd around and found out. You unfortunately won the lottery of shit storms.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________
Look man, this event has been clipped and uploaded to youtube and you look like the bad guys. YOUR guild f'd around and found out. The attackers clearly knew who he was in my opinion. I'm not being a hater, the ball just got rolling from your people and you trying to paint pirate that way seems like you did nothing wrong is not gonna help your case. That is the result of playing around in pvp, whether you knew or not who he is. Every time you pvp randoms, you risk this. At 44 you should know this if you have ever gamed before so I do not sympathize, but I will offer advice anyways.
Your options are to hope there are a lot of pirate software haters on your server to start to muster up enough people to fight back, keep seeking peace, or rebrand your guild.
Even though my opinion is that the reaction of Pirate is completely justified, it would be neat to see another massive guild form for a long term war if you put in that effort. I dont think you will get peace from pirate, I wouldnt accept terms either if it were me. Rebranding is the easiest. The game isnt out yet, you can take the L and not randomly kill people going forward.
These are my opinions, to anyone else watch video and feel free to disagree. Just wanted to post my take on the incident.
What you don't do, if you are not stream sniping, is make a comment in the stream.
That really is the key thing you don't do.
I replied to your comment, and quoted the comment in that reply because that is the proper thing to do.
You asked how a guild can know you are stream sniping if all you do is kill someone in game - I pointed out that the situation in question was given away as stream sniping due to the people attacking the streamer comment in that streamers stream. If you are in the stream and you are killing the streamer, you are stream sniping.
Basically, you asked a question, I answered it, you then deleted the question and started asking me what the problem is.
People witnessed APEX members engaging in chat, in Thor's Stream, yet oddly enough, APEX didn't know he was there and putting reports in? I call absolute BULLSHIT.
I stand by what I said earlier and add a little bit more wisdom.
1. This is an ALPHA test, the focus is on finding, reporting and squishing bugs, not petty squabbles and definitely not stopping people from doing what they're meant to be doing. People who don't allow this to happen and won't report bugs, shouldn't even be in Alpha, no matter how much they paid.
2. Did said character that was sniped, even make a hostile move against the member of APEX, at the time?
So, how does "They clipped you killing me at spawn and they're reporting you", translate into him saying "our entire team was going to mass report him."? I watch Thor's stream and he didnt say that. He said that one person said that's what some in APEX, were saying they'd do. There's a difference!!!!
PS: They can refer to both one person and a group of people. In the case of the report, I believe this to be one person that said they were reporting him.
Seriously get your story straight
Cassara71 <Karita/Kareya>