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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Current forced pvp will kill the game
Symbiosome
Member, Alpha Two
I agree with Steven that pvp should be for game political reasons, fight over resources, etc.
But ... people who can grief will always exist and Ashes will NEVER be able to control it.
Big Streamers will never be able to really cover the game and it will take revenue from the game.
Casual players will not want to login for 30 min and deal with a griever. If you can not play the game the way you want people will leave.
This will cause the game to be too niche. And I really really like playing Ashes ... this will be sad.
Bottom line, consider the unconsentual pvp system the way it is now. Your current penalties will not stop grievers, and you can not police it.
But ... people who can grief will always exist and Ashes will NEVER be able to control it.
Big Streamers will never be able to really cover the game and it will take revenue from the game.
Casual players will not want to login for 30 min and deal with a griever. If you can not play the game the way you want people will leave.
This will cause the game to be too niche. And I really really like playing Ashes ... this will be sad.
Bottom line, consider the unconsentual pvp system the way it is now. Your current penalties will not stop grievers, and you can not police it.
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Comments
what idiot spends 2 hour gathing/farming and never does a bank break? to be fair they deserve to loose it if they dont bank often :P
I see more control over griefing in this game than I do most others so I think Steven's take on this is promising.
Over the past few weeks I have seen it go from players flagging up to kill non-combatants to not seeing this happen at all last weekend due to the penalties they incurred the first couple of weekend where they were dropping gear and had issues playing without constantly being killed.
Players realized that the penalty for killing non-combatants far outweighs the benefit so they have switched to now flagging just to lower health on players (being careful not to get killing blow and going red) and CCing players in front of aggro'd mobs, allowing the mobs to kill them.
This can be overcome with good situational awareness and defensive play. Our small grouped spent at least an hour fending off group(s) that was 3x our size that wanted us to leave and trying to get us to do so by training mobs and CCing us. One was baited into going red and lost gear and the rest eventually got tired if it and left, it was a win situation in our eyes, even if we had to give up a higher level of xp earnings (pulling less mobs and playing defensively) to win this battle and this felt quite satisfying.
I get where you’re coming from with concerns about griefing, but it’s important to recognize that Ashes of Creation is actively tackling this with the corruption system. Right now, it’s already set up to be very punishing for players who abuse PvP, especially with griefing in mind.
The corruption system isn’t just a minor slap on the wrist. Once a player goes corrupt, they start suffering significant stat dampening, to the point where they’re doing minimal damage, regardless of their gear. Corrupt players also risk dropping their equipped gear and respawn in random, unsafe locations. The penalties apply across land and sea, meaning they can’t dodge these consequences. So if someone repeatedly engages in unwarranted PvP, they’ll eventually become so ineffective that they’re barely able to fight at all.
Now, on to the suggestion for a Tier 4 corruption: I agree that targeting low-level players without cause is harassment, not PvP. Setting a higher-tier corruption for those who gank level 1–6 players would deter griefers while keeping the PvP system meaningful. Under this system, if a player engages in predatory PvP, they’d face harsher penalties that couldn’t be removed by simply logging off, dying, or even deleting the character. The only way to reduce Tier 4 corruption would be through hours upon hours of grinding, making the cost of griefing so high that most players wouldn’t bother.
To make Tier 4 even more punishing, imagine if the corruption remained on the account even if the character is deleted. This would mean that if a player tries to escape their Tier 4 corruption by deleting the character, the corruption would instead transfer over to another character on the same account. If there are no other characters, the next new character they create would start with the same level of corruption that their deleted character had. This prevents anyone from bypassing the corruption penalty by creating a new character and forces players to work off their corruption through legitimate gameplay. It would be a serious, lasting consequence.
For those worried about looting, adding a ‘PvP-flag’ mechanic for players looting an ash pile could be a fair addition. Let’s say if someone grabs your loot, they’re flagged for PvP, making them fair game to protect what they’ve taken. This way, players have a chance to protect their loot without triggering full corruption penalties.
Lastly, this is still alpha, and the game has room to evolve. Adding a more nuanced penalty system could further reduce issues with unconsented PvP without diminishing the game's PvX focus. And we could enhance the experience with stats like:
Flash Inferno: Provides a brief, initial protection period on lootable ash piles, allowing the owner time to return if close by.
Slow Burn: Extends the ash pile’s duration, giving players more time to retrieve their items before they despawn.
By including such mechanics, players get more ways to manage risks without removing PvP’s role in the world. If implemented right, these penalties and protections can make for an exciting, competitive environment without inviting harassment. Remember, Ashes of Creation isn’t about PvP for the sake of griefing; it’s about resource competition, political conflicts, and strategic gameplay. Toxic players will find their tactics limited, while true PvP fans can enjoy a challenging, balanced system. I want to be clear—I’m all for PvP when it’s over land, resources, or territory. That’s the core of Ashes of Creation, and it adds depth to the game. If you’re gathering materials in my area or pushing into contested zones, then yes, bring it on. That’s fair play. But griefing? That’s not PvP; it’s just harassment. True PvP has a purpose, whether it’s a competition over resources or control of territory, and it’s essential for a game like this to thrive.
The devs should absolutely draw a hard line between strategic PvP and pointless harassment. With systems like Tier 4 corruption in place, players can fight for what matters while toxic behavior is punished. That’s the balance we need to make this world immersive and competitive without encouraging griefing.
1. Become permitted when a territory is contested , and you are native to that territory
2. Become permitted when resources are heavily mined in an area, and you just mined them. Including special PvE areas.
3. While participating in contested events like convoys, world boss fight, etc.
I really dont see why one would be a target otherwise.
It is and for regular real PvP not lower level griffing, it’s Honestly to harsh nobody is going to come help push off a group mass exp grinding a area or a guy can’t chase of a guy farming his resource spot these kinda things are perfectly good reasons to kill someone. Which is why I suggested a tier all itself for low level griffing. So the regular corruption system works the way it should be.
They boosted the corruption system because they saw it's current iteration didn't deter people from being assholes. The first weekend it seemed like every half hour or so there was someone who got bored and decided to start killing people in the starter zones. I saw/heard of waaaaay less people being assholes this last weekend, so I'd honestly say it was a success. At the very least, it's a step closer to the right implementation.
Systems can always be adjusted and fine tuned, but the team feels PvP should have a reason and a place in Ashes. Random ganking and pk-ing doesn't seem to be what they want their version of PvP to look like, they want it to mean something ie: legitimate organization, node wars, guild wars, etc. I don't see anything in the corruption system that couldn't be overcome or mitigated through organization. If anything I'd say the biggest risk here is the degree large guilds could mess with the average player's experience.
You have an organized group that wants to push out competition at a hot spot? Go ahead and get organized about it. Corruption falls off (or is intended to) after X amount of XP gained, so go ahead and take that risk. If you're just a loner asshole who just likes to gank players lower leveled than yourself because it's easy, then feel free to cry more as you enjoy every bit of the recently boosted risk.
there sooo many cry babies care bears. GO AWAY, this game isn't for you.
No, casuals wont have to deal with griefers all their play sessions. Because you know what most people are causals therefore most people wont pvp as much and even less grief some random casual.
Starter zone is alredy confirmed to be another safe zone as every place with guards are.
Corruption system is actively being tweaked and worked on.
"Forced pvp" is GOING to be a thing in ashes.
Griefing is already bannable similar to harassment or physical threats.
Asmongold has to play the game to his advantage as every large streamer will have to. You can kill the stremer but the streamer can also kill them, wich they will need to do.
In EU, I hardly see PvP at all. On Lotharia (the server I been playing on) we have a few guilds known to push people out with PvP if necessary, but even among the "hostile" guilds, PvP just at a whim is far from frequent, at least from my experience.
Most PvP I've witnessed have been coordinated, consensual PvP between guilds in isolated areas. I've seen a few skirmishes in the highwaymen area, but honestly they been surprisingly few given how popular the spot is.
I actually sorta agree with this statement. Ashes have very unique advantages for big streamers - they can easily run for mayor and thus have much more control of the game than most MMORPGs would allow a single player to.
While I don't want the game to be literally unplayable for him, I do believe that being hunted based on one's social status (as long as it is not griefing) is fair game. There has to be some kind of disadvantage to all of the advantage and percs one gets with the power of having hordes of followers.
To those who want the "casuals" to go away. Uh... there are more "casuals" than "true PvPers" and "casuals" are what makes a game monetarily stable and successful. The "casuals" are the unwashed masses you need.
That isn't to say this game doesn't feature PvP as a core principle. It is not too much unlike Albion. In Albion, you better believe that the "carebears" there are a large percentage of what makes the economy move.
I do agree that having consequences and "weight" to actions and decisions seems to be the message being portrayed. Levels matter. Groups Matter. Crafting matters. Leveling up and each level matters. Being thoughtful when you are out gathering or doing solo content isn't inherently safe. The tension is a core game requirement.
However, when I read "leave carebears" or "this game isnt' for you", I think there is a vocal minority of players that don't get that this game IS for all of us. Every day isn't "The Purge". There is a flagging system that will punish you for killing innocents. You should PvP for political reasons, but just killing indiscriminately isn't a design tenant.
To those espousing "kill everyone" and "griefing is fine", you are welcome to leave as well as this game isn't for you.
I see extreme statements on both sides of the fence, those saying PVE players don't matter and those saying PVP players don't matter. As far as I am concerned, it is the extremists on both sides that are the real issue.
-I think Tier 4 corruption sounds like a great idea, with even more tiers being possible so you could eventually gain enough corruption to corrupt all your characters on your account. There needs to be VERY serious punishment for griefing players. Not all of us have the platform that Asmongold has to make it to the attention of Steven that we are being griefed (I'll be lucky if a dev even sees this post I imagine). Since this is the case it must be made an in game mechanic that punishes players for griefing, that could be dragging mobs onto innocent players, or using skills to nondirectly kill players. If you are flagged for PvP and do anything to another player it should be punishable in a serious way.
-I think looting a non flagged players body should give you corruption (and they need to make it more clear what body is yours and what is another players, maybe even adding a check box in settings to choose not to be able to loot other players bodies at all)
-I also think that dropping resources when not in PvP is excessive, while XP debt is fine while PvE'ing. On the flip side, XP debt while PvP'ing is too much, but dropping resources seems fine!
Examples: If you are PvP flagged and hit an enemy then that enemy kills a player, it should count as corruption. If you are PvP flagged and you hit a player with ANY spell effect it should give you corruption. If you loot a non flagged player body it should give you corruption.
We dont want another New World Flop thank you very much. They caved to the PVE crowd the game lost its identity and environment function and the game died.
Please do some research on how the corruption system works because right now we have PVP'rs complaining they cant PVP.
While the next wave of PVE'rs try to break the will of fundamental world mechanics by using the threat that they wont play...
Well guess what you're not playing NewWorld either after they made the PVP toggle.
That big$ MMO is essentially dead because PVE players made the same threats the game would be unplayable and that they wouldnt play unless it changes...
So the eveidence is clear even if Ashes changed it (They wont) the PVE crowd wont play it...
it will not kill the game and let me explain why:
1)Not all systems are in place:
eventually players will be able to bounty hunt red players. towns also may be non-pvp areas, as well as no pvp for players below a certain level.
2)Being red is VERY punishing:
when you get killed as a red player you drop 2-3 GEAR pieces you have equipped(Gear that you can't take off to protect it, once red)
3) You get next to nothing from killing players
Players drop a very small % of there materials, not gear. going red to loot 8 oak logs and 20 glint is not worth losing 2-3 gear pieces.
If your going to reference the Asmond gold issue, ill cover that too. That happened to him because as many people love him, just as many do not. Many people do not want his massive zerg following populating their server and ruining the natural flow of the game. i am one of those players. so many of the players who were griefing him, would never normally do that. I believe that on launch they should have a server dedicated to big streamers that is encouraged for them to use. this server should be known to all players so they have the option to avoid them if they wish
But keeping the system in the game allows players to flag and fight over resources and mobs. if you take the system out. itll turn into Black desert online, where low level players who are not strong enough to properly contest an area freely farm under you with 100% protection which is a far bigger issue. Ever play BDO and grind for a rare drop for 1,000+ hours to constantly be dealing with players who you could push out of your farm spot but cant because the system protects them? that kills a game.
The system currently is so punishing that out of thousands of players on a server, you may see a handful of people still play the style of red, griefing. but the rewards for killing the red players in the future will be worth it, and bring the thousands of other players together to hunt them.
It will not kill the game, its perfectly fine as is. ive played over 80 hours in the alpha and have been killed once by a player, who did it for science and gave my stuff back.
In short, Aoc will have many systems in place to keep the red player numbers low, and playing as red useless. just give them time to implement all the systems.
here is the thing - steven has gone on records saying he's fine this game doesnt appeal to the masses (aka casuals) and isn't in it to make money or be a WoW killer. He is contend this game is a niche game that itches his perfect Lineage/ArchAge system. He is fine if the game becomes a 20k 1 server population. He isn't here to win investors or be the biggest mmo ever, that was never his goal and vision.
It's so refreshing to hear a voice of reason. I agree.
I think corruption is fine if it gets tuned down and will prevent PvErs from getting ganked like they're afraid. I also believe there will be plenty of PvP events and areas for PvPers to get the combat they want. I desperately want there to be a healthy mix of both, and I honestly believe we're moving in that direction (though reading these forums would make you think otherwise). Anyway, we're not even feature testing yet... Time will tell.
But to say there should be PvP toggles, PvE/PvP servers, or the removal of a barrier to PK (corruption) is all crazy IMO. The game is PvX and it needs to remain PvX. That was always its goal. I believe it will work out.
Corruption will be tuned down as Steven already stated he has purposely overtuned for alpha to prevent griefing.
I too hope that they do not go with a toggle as other games have tried (looking at you New World) and it didn't work very well. New World started out in design as a great pvp game and then did this 180 mid development changing to a pvp opt in, no loot drop upon death ect which was disappointing. I did like what they attempted to do with incentives to achieve more open world pvp by giving players a higher xp gain if flagged, but this resulted in a lot of pve players constantly crying that pvp was happening when they flagged for the xp and died to another player. 🤦♀️The safe zone fighting where fights would break out around towns and people would constantly run into the safe zone to escape death was weird as well.
I am used to real pvp games so pvx will take a little getting used to but like I said in another post, I am willing to stay flexible enough in my mindset in the hope that Steven's corruption system will balance out his playerbase of both pve and pvp players and the game stays populated a lot longer than recently released games.
also in game they can add this high level corruption where you also drop your storage key that players can loot and open your town storage. obviously only save this for the most vile of the player base.
I think a corruption system to balance the risk/reward for PvP players killing and disincentivizing players focused on PvE is necessary. But I would say that a bigger priority is incentivising those PvE players to play in the first place.
I think the goal in a PvX game, is to create content gated behind PvE and PvP, so that a team comprised of both PvE focused players and PvP focused players, or all-rounders, is most successful.
All I am seeing is a PvP focused game. Even the grinding in groups and zergs is very PvP oriented, because gathering and crafting is a solo operation. When artisanship is added, are all the mobs going to be rebalanced? Because I am too far behind now to do anything after 1 weekend. I cant rejoin the group grinding and I cant solo anywhere.
Right now I don't think me dying repeatedly out in the wild, grinding to 10 for 3 days in the starter area, trying to compete for mobs in a level 9 group amongst the level 15 groups, or spamming LFG is helping test much.
I think a more holistic design to the first 15 levels is required, because it is going to require a lot of rework to balance PvE leveling in with what we have at the moment.