Current forced pvp will kill the game

I agree with Steven that pvp should be for game political reasons, fight over resources, etc.
But ... people who can grief will always exist and Ashes will NEVER be able to control it.
Big Streamers will never be able to really cover the game and it will take revenue from the game.
Casual players will not want to login for 30 min and deal with a griever. If you can not play the game the way you want people will leave.
This will cause the game to be too niche. And I really really like playing Ashes ... this will be sad.

Bottom line, consider the unconsentual pvp system the way it is now. Your current penalties will not stop grievers, and you can not police it.

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ratbait

Casual crafters wont play a game like this,to spend 2 hours gathering just to have a guy roll up and kill you,lose half your stuff just isnt worth it.But hey lets incentivize the griefing by giving the killer 25% of your stuff for 1 seconds farming gatherers.

Blip

caldrin

no it wont kill the game.

Veeshan

ratbait wrote: »

Casual crafters wont play a game like this,to spend 2 hours gathering just to have a guy roll up and kill you,lose half your stuff just isnt worth it.But hey lets incentivize the griefing by giving the killer 25% of your stuff for 1 seconds farming gatherers.

what idiot spends 2 hour gathing/farming and never does a bank break? to be fair they deserve to loose it if they dont bank often :P

Its_Me

Symbiosome wrote: »

But ... people who can grief will always exist and Ashes will NEVER be able to control it.

I see more control over griefing in this game than I do most others so I think Steven's take on this is promising.

Over the past few weeks I have seen it go from players flagging up to kill non-combatants to not seeing this happen at all last weekend due to the penalties they incurred the first couple of weekend where they were dropping gear and had issues playing without constantly being killed.

Players realized that the penalty for killing non-combatants far outweighs the benefit so they have switched to now flagging just to lower health on players (being careful not to get killing blow and going red) and CCing players in front of aggro'd mobs, allowing the mobs to kill them.

This can be overcome with good situational awareness and defensive play. Our small grouped spent at least an hour fending off group(s) that was 3x our size that wanted us to leave and trying to get us to do so by training mobs and CCing us. One was baited into going red and lost gear and the rest eventually got tired if it and left, it was a win situation in our eyes, even if we had to give up a higher level of xp earnings (pulling less mobs and playing defensively) to win this battle and this felt quite satisfying.

ratbait

Deny the failure of 90% of every open world pvp game ever all ya want...facts are facts.calling people names and arguing it wont change anything,and assuming people who post against it are carebears is childish,you dont know them or there motivation's,I am liking the game and want it too succeed, I also want it too have a healthy player base which it wont if the game actively drives people away.I would think even the pvp crowd would want that, if you want more people engaging in pvp its way easier to talk a pve er into trying pvp to have more people playing than drive players away and have alot less paticipating.

Wethion

Symbiosome wrote: »

I agree with Steven that pvp should be for game political reasons, fight over resources, etc.
......
And I really really like playing Ashes ... this will be sad.

I think there absolutely should be PvP, and I look forward to that aspect of the game as a sizable factor of playing, but complete agree with OP. Having PvP be the largest or even close to the largest aspect of the game will be a serious detriment to playability, enjoyment, and will definitely cause me to leave and many others to not start playing.

Kalnazzar

ratbait wrote: »

Casual crafters wont play a game like this,to spend 2 hours gathering just to have a guy roll up and kill you,lose half your stuff just isnt worth it.But hey lets incentivize the griefing by giving the killer 25% of your stuff for 1 seconds farming gatherers.

I get where you’re coming from with concerns about griefing, but it’s important to recognize that Ashes of Creation is actively tackling this with the corruption system. Right now, it’s already set up to be very punishing for players who abuse PvP, especially with griefing in mind.

The corruption system isn’t just a minor slap on the wrist. Once a player goes corrupt, they start suffering significant stat dampening, to the point where they’re doing minimal damage, regardless of their gear. Corrupt players also risk dropping their equipped gear and respawn in random, unsafe locations. The penalties apply across land and sea, meaning they can’t dodge these consequences. So if someone repeatedly engages in unwarranted PvP, they’ll eventually become so ineffective that they’re barely able to fight at all.

Now, on to the suggestion for a Tier 4 corruption: I agree that targeting low-level players without cause is harassment, not PvP. Setting a higher-tier corruption for those who gank level 1–6 players would deter griefers while keeping the PvP system meaningful. Under this system, if a player engages in predatory PvP, they’d face harsher penalties that couldn’t be removed by simply logging off, dying, or even deleting the character. The only way to reduce Tier 4 corruption would be through hours upon hours of grinding, making the cost of griefing so high that most players wouldn’t bother.

To make Tier 4 even more punishing, imagine if the corruption remained on the account even if the character is deleted. This would mean that if a player tries to escape their Tier 4 corruption by deleting the character, the corruption would instead transfer over to another character on the same account. If there are no other characters, the next new character they create would start with the same level of corruption that their deleted character had. This prevents anyone from bypassing the corruption penalty by creating a new character and forces players to work off their corruption through legitimate gameplay. It would be a serious, lasting consequence.

For those worried about looting, adding a ‘PvP-flag’ mechanic for players looting an ash pile could be a fair addition. Let’s say if someone grabs your loot, they’re flagged for PvP, making them fair game to protect what they’ve taken. This way, players have a chance to protect their loot without triggering full corruption penalties.

Lastly, this is still alpha, and the game has room to evolve. Adding a more nuanced penalty system could further reduce issues with unconsented PvP without diminishing the game's PvX focus. And we could enhance the experience with stats like:

Flash Inferno: Provides a brief, initial protection period on lootable ash piles, allowing the owner time to return if close by.
Slow Burn: Extends the ash pile’s duration, giving players more time to retrieve their items before they despawn.
By including such mechanics, players get more ways to manage risks without removing PvP’s role in the world. If implemented right, these penalties and protections can make for an exciting, competitive environment without inviting harassment. Remember, Ashes of Creation isn’t about PvP for the sake of griefing; it’s about resource competition, political conflicts, and strategic gameplay. Toxic players will find their tactics limited, while true PvP fans can enjoy a challenging, balanced system. I want to be clear—I’m all for PvP when it’s over land, resources, or territory. That’s the core of Ashes of Creation, and it adds depth to the game. If you’re gathering materials in my area or pushing into contested zones, then yes, bring it on. That’s fair play. But griefing? That’s not PvP; it’s just harassment. True PvP has a purpose, whether it’s a competition over resources or control of territory, and it’s essential for a game like this to thrive.

The devs should absolutely draw a hard line between strategic PvP and pointless harassment. With systems like Tier 4 corruption in place, players can fight for what matters while toxic behavior is punished. That’s the balance we need to make this world immersive and competitive without encouraging griefing.

Symbiosome

As I was thinking about it, I really dont get why pvp is not enabled based on simple rules.
1. Become permitted when a territory is contested , and you are native to that territory
2. Become permitted when resources are heavily mined in an area, and you just mined them. Including special PvE areas.
3. While participating in contested events like convoys, world boss fight, etc.

I really dont see why one would be a target otherwise.

mainedutch

The system we have now has quite literally already stopped it. No one is PvPing via corruption.

Kalnazzar

mainedutch wrote: »

The system we have now has quite literally already stopped it. No one is PvPing via corruption.

It is and for regular real PvP not lower level griffing, it’s Honestly to harsh nobody is going to come help push off a group mass exp grinding a area or a guy can’t chase of a guy farming his resource spot these kinda things are perfectly good reasons to kill someone. Which is why I suggested a tier all itself for low level griffing. So the regular corruption system works the way it should be.

Zapatos80

Imagine going into a vegan restaurant and explaining to them why they should serve you steak.

TehGoat

The current corruption system is way to harsh. There are ways to deal with griefers or give protections to new players and low levels. I cant even begin to count the number of games that listened to all the pve'rs before the game game came out, nerf the pvp into oblivion and the game dies within a month or two. Aion had a great pvp system and Archeage also had a pretty good pvp system so there are games that have figured out good way to do it.

Okolo

I get a kick out of people screaming and having a fit about there being risk to PvP. In many cases, those are the same people who are quick to attack any "care bear" request or argument by saying there should be risk to gathering.

They boosted the corruption system because they saw it's current iteration didn't deter people from being assholes. The first weekend it seemed like every half hour or so there was someone who got bored and decided to start killing people in the starter zones. I saw/heard of waaaaay less people being assholes this last weekend, so I'd honestly say it was a success. At the very least, it's a step closer to the right implementation.

Systems can always be adjusted and fine tuned, but the team feels PvP should have a reason and a place in Ashes. Random ganking and pk-ing doesn't seem to be what they want their version of PvP to look like, they want it to mean something ie: legitimate organization, node wars, guild wars, etc. I don't see anything in the corruption system that couldn't be overcome or mitigated through organization. If anything I'd say the biggest risk here is the degree large guilds could mess with the average player's experience.

You have an organized group that wants to push out competition at a hot spot? Go ahead and get organized about it. Corruption falls off (or is intended to) after X amount of XP gained, so go ahead and take that risk. If you're just a loner asshole who just likes to gank players lower leveled than yourself because it's easy, then feel free to cry more as you enjoy every bit of the recently boosted risk.

novercalis

Blip wrote: »

there sooo many cry babies care bears. GO AWAY, this game isn't for you.

Orym

You sid it yourself. "And I really like playing ashes"
No, casuals wont have to deal with griefers all their play sessions. Because you know what most people are causals therefore most people wont pvp as much and even less grief some random casual.
Starter zone is alredy confirmed to be another safe zone as every place with guards are.
Corruption system is actively being tweaked and worked on.
"Forced pvp" is GOING to be a thing in ashes.

Griefing is already bannable similar to harassment or physical threats.
Asmongold has to play the game to his advantage as every large streamer will have to. You can kill the stremer but the streamer can also kill them, wich they will need to do.

Dezemi

I feel almost alienated from these discussions. Is it really that much of a difference between NA and EU servers?

In EU, I hardly see PvP at all. On Lotharia (the server I been playing on) we have a few guilds known to push people out with PvP if necessary, but even among the "hostile" guilds, PvP just at a whim is far from frequent, at least from my experience.

Most PvP I've witnessed have been coordinated, consensual PvP between guilds in isolated areas. I've seen a few skirmishes in the highwaymen area, but honestly they been surprisingly few given how popular the spot is.

Dezemi

Orym wrote: »

Asmongold has to play the game to his advantage as every large streamer will have to. You can kill the stremer but the streamer can also kill them, wich they will need to do.

I actually sorta agree with this statement. Ashes have very unique advantages for big streamers - they can easily run for mayor and thus have much more control of the game than most MMORPGs would allow a single player to.

While I don't want the game to be literally unplayable for him, I do believe that being hunted based on one's social status (as long as it is not griefing) is fair game. There has to be some kind of disadvantage to all of the advantage and percs one gets with the power of having hordes of followers.

redherring

Hmm.. I seem to read a lot of PvP opinions that miss the mark. However, I do see that Orym encapsulated a lot of the recent design principle updates Steve has shared.

To those who want the "casuals" to go away. Uh... there are more "casuals" than "true PvPers" and "casuals" are what makes a game monetarily stable and successful. The "casuals" are the unwashed masses you need.

That isn't to say this game doesn't feature PvP as a core principle. It is not too much unlike Albion. In Albion, you better believe that the "carebears" there are a large percentage of what makes the economy move.

I do agree that having consequences and "weight" to actions and decisions seems to be the message being portrayed. Levels matter. Groups Matter. Crafting matters. Leveling up and each level matters. Being thoughtful when you are out gathering or doing solo content isn't inherently safe. The tension is a core game requirement.

However, when I read "leave carebears" or "this game isnt' for you", I think there is a vocal minority of players that don't get that this game IS for all of us. Every day isn't "The Purge". There is a flagging system that will punish you for killing innocents. You should PvP for political reasons, but just killing indiscriminately isn't a design tenant.

To those espousing "kill everyone" and "griefing is fine", you are welcome to leave as well as this game isn't for you.

ratbait

So true Redherring,these forums are just a narrowminded echo chamber for the hardcore PVPer,who will probably just leave after a few months of play and it has all burned to the ground.

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