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Can we do something about Griefers ?

ThePepperThePepper Member, Alpha Two
in General Discussion
I'm on Shol server, this past two days have been an horrible experience. I'm looking to test Carphin Tower content, each time we go there there is one (1) player named Heiler from Standby Rubin guild that wants us to pay. We did not, he then proceeded to pull large packs of mobs onto us over and over again until we die. If we kill him we get corrupted, even if he dies from mobs, he's back within 2 minutes. He's at max level so doesn't care about exp debt.

I tried the day later, within 10 minutes he was here, apparently someone from our group was streaming. We moved to Gravespeak, he followed us all the way to grief us there as well.

I'm playing this game to test its content and provide feedback. I'm not interested in providing entertainment for some jobless loser. Want me to provide feedback about Carphin ? Well guess what every time I went there I got griefed.

I'm done playing until something is done.
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Comments

  • SarkgpSarkgp Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 8
    There is currently no timeout in the game, which means that in PvP zones as soon as you look for action people run away and ALT F4, disappearing in your face as you hit them.

    That loses excitement and seems totally dirty to me.
  • ShinasoShinaso Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited December 8
    +1
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  • OverdemonOverdemon Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 8
    +1
  • BinniBinni Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 8
    +1
  • YeiijYeiij Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 8
    +1
  • DogmacoreDogmacore Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 8
    +1
  • FastFireFastFastFireFast Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 8
    +1
  • filimerufilimeru Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 8
    +1
  • AstuWarAstuWar Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 8
    Sarkgp wrote: »
    There is currently no timeout in the game, which means that in PvP zones as soon as you look for action people run away and ALT F4, disappearing in your face as you hit them.

    That loses excitement and seems totally dirty to me.

    To make it clear, the complaint here is that there is currently no log out timer and that player characters disappear from the game as soon as the player logs out, which makes it frustrating for anyone fighting them in PvP. Although risky, this could be abused in PvE as well.

    The suggestion is that you should wait in place for a few seconds after trying to log out outside safe zones before actually logging out, and that if you exit the game by closing the client's window your character should stay in-game for a few seconds instead of disappear immediately.
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited December 8
    ALT + F4 out of the conversation. My question. How would you fix that? Having people crash and left in the game would suffer if you changed how long people stuck around when disconnected. Is there another way?
  • TyranthraxusTyranthraxus Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 8
    nanfoodle wrote: »
    ALT + F4 out of the conversation. My question. How would you fix that? Having people crash and left in the game would suffer if you changed how long people stuck around when disconnected. Is there another way?

    Acceptable versus an exploit.

    The game could also be coded to detect the difference between a signal-loss and a closure of the program. You might still get people pulling their modem cables, but it'd still be preferable versus insta-safety for program closures.
  • unknownsystemerrorunknownsystemerror Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited December 8
    They are aware of the issue and it will be eventually fixed. Before moaning about how life is unfair, check the wiki to see what the intended mechanics are for your latest "THEY MUST FIX THIS NOW!" rant. Would allow you to focus your outrage at testing an alpha client for those things that matter. Characters are meant to persist for a time on logout in the world. This was originally going to be only for those corrupt, because everyone knew those people were going to try and dodge a death. It will be expanded to everyone. Will people inevitably have some hilarious stories about how they logged out in town, and then came back dead? Sure. Intrepid has a lot of work to do on various systems, they will get there eventually.

    There is a 60 second timer to logout while corrupt. Force-disconnecting the client during the cooldown will leave the character in-game.[23][49]
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  • kadimirkadimir Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 8
    Tyranthraxus wrote: »

    Acceptable versus an exploit.

    The game could also be coded to detect the difference between a signal-loss and a closure of the program. You might still get people pulling their modem cables, but it'd still be preferable versus insta-safety for program closures.

    Ill be your tour guide to gaming history good sir,

    1.) Lagswitching is a very long standing cheat that has been a plague in online games for a long long time.

    2.) even if someone didn't want to set that up, simply disconnecting their internet/changing network is very quick and easy too.

    If someone runs from pvp without flagging, not a whole lot you can do at the moment. IMO maybe an implementation that wont let ANY player log off/remains in the game world for 20 seconds after any Player vs player interaction on the receiving or giving end.
    PvP focused: TERA / Wildstar / Aion
    PvE focused: WoW / FFXIV / Lineage II
    Sandbox: Ultima Online / Darkfall / Mortal Online
    Big Influence: SNES Fighting games / Starcraft / Diablo II / Smite
  • UntypicalUntypical Member, Alpha Two
    Hello, Ashe community.

    there is a general issue that needs to be addressed.

    Some players are exploiting the game by leading high-level mobs to low-level players or aggroing a lot of mobs into parties.
    causing their deaths without engaging in PvP and bypassing the corruption system.

    There are two issues:
    1. They steal the resources you farm,
    2. They avoid all penalties for their actions..

    Even with a grace timer, it is nearly impossible to respond in time when farming in remote locations.

    This exploitation will likely escalate, especially once the rogue becomes available, with players targeting everyone.

    Could you please clarify if, and how this issue will be addressed?

    Many thanks.





  • Ebro EpaitoEbro Epaito Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited December 8
    Someone once said "the greatest thing about MMO's are the people and the worst thing about MMO's are the people"
    All MMO's have douche bag players, if you ever played UO prior to Trammel PK's were rampant and what's worse they would run with "blue" healers that would turn "grey" but it sucked getting PK'ed in a full loot game...
  • UntypicalUntypical Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 8
    it's not about PK, I support PK to the fullest.
    it's about abusing the game and bypassing the limitations.
    when the rogue comes out it can become a strategy if it's allowed.
  • pyrealpyreal Member, Warrior of Old, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited December 8
    Mudkip is doing this on Lyneth at HH.
    He's lvl 25, and was dragging multiple three star elites into our group, blinking away, and dashing back in to loot our corpses as soon as we got wiped.

    Thankfully one of our party members was recording and so sent in a griefing report.
  • UntypicalUntypical Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 8
    pyreal wrote: »
    Mudkip is doing this on Lyneth at HH.
    He's lvl 25, and was dragging multiple three star elites into our group, blinking away, and dashing back in to loot our corpses as soon as we got wiped.

    Thankfully one of our party members was recording and so sent in a griefing report.
    how did he report I have some to report too, and the question is if they are allowing it as part of the game or it's considered bluntly griefing.
  • Savic ProsperitySavic Prosperity Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 8
    Untypical wrote: »
    pyreal wrote: »
    Mudkip is doing this on Lyneth at HH.
    He's lvl 25, and was dragging multiple three star elites into our group, blinking away, and dashing back in to loot our corpses as soon as we got wiped.

    Thankfully one of our party members was recording and so sent in a griefing report.
    how did he report I have some to report too, and the question is if they are allowing it as part of the game or it's considered bluntly griefing.

    would be curious where you report it too
    as for how its griefing, if they were testing the limits of the borked aggro system they would only do it once as a stretch twice, and frankly wouldnt really bother to loot peoples glint since if they were wanting to steal peoples glint or wanted the spot the system is intended for you to fight them in pvp not using mobs to avoid the corruption system
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited December 8
    Ya I have had a good time messed up by this.
  • UntypicalUntypical Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 8
    Savic Prosperity wrote: »
    Untypical wrote: »
    pyreal wrote: »
    Mudkip is doing this on Lyneth at HH.
    He's lvl 25, and was dragging multiple three star elites into our group, blinking away, and dashing back in to loot our corpses as soon as we got wiped.

    Thankfully one of our party members was recording and so sent in a griefing report.
    how did he report I have some to report too, and the question is if they are allowing it as part of the game or it's considered bluntly griefing.

    would be curious where you report it too
    as for how its griefing, if they were testing the limits of the borked aggro system they would only do it once as a stretch twice, and frankly wouldnt really bother to loot peoples glint since if they were wanting to steal peoples glint or wanted the spot the system is intended for you to fight them in pvp not using mobs to avoid the corruption system

    I reported inside a bug report
  • excidiusexcidius Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 8
    To be honest if training mobs into groups in an attempt to get players killed without engaging in pvp is not considered griefing possibly even exploiting it is one of the few things I will probably consider as making this game not for me (at launch), I can deal with it in an alpha (for now at least) and I can handle the fact that occasionally someone might do this trying to keep themself alive not as a griefing or exploitive behaviour but when you see people doing this 10 hours a day multiple days a week at that point it is pretty clear they are doing it on purpose and are a bad actor who needs to be dealt with.
    These people also tend to loot you and if attacked alt+F4 or log out to character and back in to drop their flag which is another exploit when used solely for the purpose of avoiding the 1-2 minute flag timer INTENDED by the game.

    This is the kind of behaviour that will see many casual players quit and for the long term health of the game casual players are needed
  • AgripinensiaAgripinensia Member, Alpha Two
    We have 3 players (That I actually have the names of on the server that abuse the honestly not so good AI system (running through mobs or mobs running through your group making them aggressive towards you instead of the person who pulled them).

    Does it make sense to report them?
    They effectively shut down Carphin (which they advertise) ever since they started being bored, people can't advertise where they want to farm (otherwise they show up and ruin it for everyone).
    They know we can't do anything about it unless we are willing to go corrupted and loose our gear.

    This seems to me like obvious abuse of two systems that are clearly intended to not work this way.
    They are also guildless, so declaring war isn't an option either.

    They go so far to actually write in global that they will "shut down Carphin for maintenance".

    I would kindly ask to either take action against this behaviour.
    By the way: These are the same people who abused the fact that you could instantly switch guilds to declare wars against guilds to freely grief low level players.

    It would be different if they at least intended to use the farmspots themselves or free them up for their guild- but there is no ingame benefit to them, they just want to piss people off and make them quit the game.

    It might make sense to actually flesh out more what is considered being abuse/exploitation and what is not.
    Especially for the communities coming from a more "letter of the law" culture as these people don't think they are doing anything wrong.

    P.S.: Please don't hold the mistakes I clearly made writing this up against me, as english is just my 2nd language.
    The realm I am talking about is EU-Shol.
    I am pretty sure anyone playing there will be able to name at least 2 of the players names, but I will leave them out here since it is my intention to get a general ruling and not single 2 players out or incentivice real life action (apart from maybe banning them from the game).
  • AgripinensiaAgripinensia Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 8
    Untypical wrote: »
    it's not about PK, I support PK to the fullest.
    it's about abusing the game and bypassing the limitations.
    when the rogue comes out it can become a strategy if it's allowed.

    This is the problem.
    Didn't see this thread for some reason when i made the other one.

    You can't PK them bc the corruption system f-s you if you do.
    You can't ignore them because they will continuously pull mobs through your group.
    You can't declare war because they are not in a guild.
    excidius wrote: »
    To be honest if training mobs into groups in an attempt to get players killed without engaging in pvp is not considered griefing possibly even exploiting it is one of the few things I will probably consider as making this game not for me (at launch), I can deal with it in an alpha (for now at least) and I can handle the fact that occasionally someone might do this trying to keep themself alive not as a griefing or exploitive behaviour but when you see people doing this 10 hours a day multiple days a week at that point it is pretty clear they are doing it on purpose and are a bad actor who needs to be dealt with.
    These people also tend to loot you and if attacked alt+F4 or log out to character and back in to drop their flag which is another exploit when used solely for the purpose of avoiding the 1-2 minute flag timer INTENDED by the game.

    This is the kind of behaviour that will see many casual players quit and for the long term health of the game casual players are needed

    This is how I see it as well.
    I also can't see how it is helpful in any way.
    They have effectively shut down carphin for 2 weeks now on our realm.
    And here "Inaction is action".
    You tell them that you reported them but they don't care as they think (so far correctly) that nothing will happen to them.

    Steven and Intrepid said, that they want to be strict when it comes to griefing. So please are!
    Yes, sometimes you run away and pull a mob group into another player group accidentally - that is not what this is! They do it deliberately and even post in chat that they will "shut down carphin for maintenance"!
  • pyrealpyreal Member, Warrior of Old, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited December 8
    Mudkip likes to do this at HH on Lyneth.
  • SilvertreeSilvertree Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 8
    People are frequently doing this to groups (and solo players) on Resna at both Church of the Seven and Highwayman Hills. I killed one of them, became corrupted, and logged out.

    I'm pretty sure their goal is to irritate people into becoming corrupted so they can steal high-quality gear without farming. I'll delete my character before I reward them with my gear.

    The corruption system is protecting and rewarding griefers while making the game toxic for normal players. If changes aren't made, I won't be playing much.
  • RymRym Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 8
    Yes, this is not intended and an oversight.

    The corruption and blight system should cover this type of behavior.

    The detection system would see whether you pulled mobs and said mobs killed other players multiple times in a row. Each time you pull a mob and that mob has managed to kill a player that is not part of your group or raid, you should accumulate Blight.

    This type of Blight should last for about 120 minutes or more, and if you continue pulling mobs and they keep killing players outside of your party, your Blight accumulation should increase exponentially.

    After you have done this for about 10 times, your fate is sealed, your Blight turns to Corruption at level 2 or level 3, similar to the murders you committed with your pulls plus an additional punishment for intentional griefing, ending up with Corruption III or IV.

    This, in my opinion, would make for an amazing griefing deterrent. Additionally, the corruption and blight system for this behavior should be IP-wide, so if you get corrupted on a low lvl griefing char, you would spawn in with that corruption on your main char as well.

    Another easier option but less punishing is for the griefer to be forcefully turned Combatant the moment a mob they pulled kills a player not in their party, this would be the most immediate and simplest solution that is least punishing to the griefer.

    But I think bricking your character is a more fitting deterrent for griefers.
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  • RymRym Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 8
    They will likely wake up with their characters "missing" soon, sooner than dec 20th.
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  • AgripinensiaAgripinensia Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 8
    Thing is, that this needs to be communicated explicitly - it would also be good to have an option to report harassment and abuse.

    And people really seem to think (at least they say so) that this doesn't constitute exploiting/harassing players.
  • AgripinensiaAgripinensia Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 8
    Ironically I think longterm the best solution would be to make it, so the AI builds more aggro against the initially pulling player, requiring multiple attacks or a spot to get it off you.

    If being close wasn't enough to actually aggro the mobs, this abuse would be much harder to pull off.
    That would make the suggested Blight System unnecessary.

    Its also annoying that whenever you run through another grp fighting mobs, half of those follow your group into the "dungeon" (Happens regularly at Steelbloom) - for both groups...

    But there will always be some ways to exploit systems that are supposed to prevent exploitation (here: Corruption - in a PvP game we would have just killed the a*****e), I think it needs to be clear that this is abuse and not tolerated.

    Ironically I think Stevens Joke about the Gallows is actually a pretty good idea.
    1st time: Put the character into one of those middle-age tomato throwing things for a few days
    2nd time: Gallows

    Shaming sucks for the person being shamed, but it works wonders - suspensions quite often get explained by "I had something come up in real life"...
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