Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place five days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place five days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
FFXI's fishing is perfect. No notes.
TL's does just fine too. It's fundamentally similar, although I think they're still working on getting the depth of environmental factors involved.
BDO's gathering systems are honestly okay. I feel like it was a bit much sometimes to be able to cut every tree. I don't think that it feels right, even if it's technically very realistic to be able to cut every tree in the forest. This is something that TL actually does well, in my opinion. On this very specific point, I love that TL has us chop stumps rather than whole trees. It feels much more natural to have those vanish after chopping than the "whole tree falls over" thing.
TL does a good job of making the basic 'running about the world hunting for things' work.
What about those mechanics do you find fun?
I have to echo the things that Azherae has said about the importance of things changing due to environmental variables, and also what my teammates have mentioned about the hard requirement that zone ecologies and resource positions make sense. There is no faster way to make a gathering system suck than to have gatherables in nonsensical locations for what they are.
Even TL's simple "rain or no rain" type system is a good step that makes gathering (and gathering specific things) something that you have more or less incentive to do at different times. It creates a good window and trigger for gathering things. In Ashes it could be even better due to seasonality.
Nonetheless, all of these games generally try to keep their gathering points in sensible locations for the type of resource they contain. There is no possible way to make something feel empty and gamey faster than making resource spawns either always the same, or putting them in locations that don't make any sense. Doing so immediately reminds the player that the game world is static or arbitrary, and they're just out there making numbers go up. Good ecology and dynamism push the player to think about the world they are in as a world, and both nudge and allow them to reason about it as one.
The other thing that is important is economic. TL does a reasonable but not perfect job of handling this aspect. I am an opportunistic gatherer, and also the type to go gather non-specific herbs, as well as wood or the occasional rock. It must be reasonable on an inventory-management level to be able to go about collecting things. "Filling up your inventory on 1.5 types of trees, because you happen to collect 4-5 rarities of Oak Log, and then not having space for Ash and Birch" is not fun. I can see how certain types of people (the more focused, targeted gatherers who are seeking an exact specific material) can have fun with this, but my gatherer type (closer to 'wanderer' if you want to give it a label) gets rather limited. As a niche, it's probably along the lines of 'collect a bunch of random lower level things for the guild bank'. TL has slightly too many types of Plants/Herbs for my inventory, if I am doing anything other than just gathering.
Even FFXI had gathering tools with "durability". I won't complain about this. I assume it's a necessary economic lever.
Been away a while due to RL stuff. Still wanted to provide feedback.
Unfun:
I feel like with scarcity and a lack of level range in artisanship (due to development) makes it is difficult to farm resources casually. As someone who enjoys pve and pvp more, I tend to level up at each reset and once I'm settled or people aren't around to do content I then proceed to attempt to gather.
At that time, I can't seem to find any resources I need (rubies especially) and then my character gets so far ahead from my crafting that I just give it up in large part. I'd suggest having higher tier resources being able to be subbed in for lower level recipes at a favorable conversion but I think that might break how the economy is setup. This could, again, be a symptom of not having the full leveling range for characters and artisanship setup yet and the world being smaller than what servers will be.
This is further compounded by time spend vs. return when you compare leveling artisanship vs. your character. My character gets more powerful and better able to make glint and traverse more places and do so all more quickly than artisanship. Artisanship leveling doesn't make me more efficient in my gathering, crafting, or refining. I may create a higher quality item but the time spend is the experience dampener for me. Gathering and refining power should come in ease and speed of gathering and refining the things you've "outgrown." It could take a couple different forms where you don't' expend all of the resources you use to craft something, refining gets faster or you proc bonus output of it, or you gain some sort of ability where you can "track" a specific gathered resource at a time.
Fun:
Sounds and visual. For all the flaws New World had that game had the most satisfying gathering. Because the gatherables had distinct sounds and sights for each gatherable. I can still hear the singing sound of the ore and plant used for healing gear and the solar flare they had. Plus just the base sounds of gathering in that game were great. That pickaxe and axe hitting the resource were so satisfying each time I gathered.
Also, being able to gather, refine, and craft alongside my leveling experience. It keeping pace, at least in the earlier half of the game which Alpha currently encompasses, with my character. It feels good to gather and craft something that you can use that is an upgrade when you need it. It feels bad to have to stop leveling and spend a day gathering to not even catch up to your leveling and not make much that you can really use. A couple hours sure but several days feels not great. Not for the earlier half of the game experience.
You are aware what this Picture insinuates, dear Vaknar ?
Will the Ren'Kai - really and truly be able to have such an incredibly strong, imposing Physique ? Yet he "STILL" has this cool Hairstyle with this somewhat Asian Vibe and look to it. He looks amazing.
Some People would surely argue it could be a she also. lol
Damn such hulking, muscular Ren'Kai would be impressive as heck.
âś“ Occasional Roleplayer
âś“ Maybe i look after a Guild sometime soon
"Hi yall,
Been considering make this post for a minute since I started really playing the A2. as we all know static resource rarity is bad as they address in the gathering post. I have the mindset that no resource node should spawn above heroic. now hear me out here what is it was on a scale based with your gathering gear and the spawning rarity of the node. lets quickly set some variables for nodes real fast.
Common= 1-100 uncommon= 101-200 rare= 201-300 heroic=301-400 epic= 401-500 legendary=501-600
alright so now that we have a good range of variables for the nodes lets set an example.
so you're going around cutting down trees and you're in some decent gathering gear you got your rare Apprentice Lumberjack's Quick-Axe and the common gear from the vendor putting you at a Lumberjacking Rarity Rating of 57 and Lumberjacking Quantity Rating of 251 for now we are going to ignore the quantity rating. the next tree you are planning to cut down spawned in as an common with a value of 80. so with my idea the common you just cut down gets a boost from your gears rarity rating making its total 137 now y'all probably thinking ok so it got bumped up to an uncommon well it didnt the roll failed under the upgrade threshold 1 in 3 odds. this part only applies to upgrading if the tree spawned in at uncommon the lowest it returns is uncommon. but lets go onto the next tree it procced an uncommon of 200 , nice, so with your gathering gear it comes out to be 257 and look at that you made the odds and it upgraded to a rare, roughly 1 in 2 odds. for the odds i am just using an D100 with the idea that if it lands on a number within the range of the boosted rarity it checks and you get the upgrade.
I hope that made since. long example made short gathering gear should better influence the rarity the resource gathered with a touch of RNG to spice it up with a a slightly weighted curve on spawns to favor the lower end.
now I know a good amount of y'all are thinking "well if the highest spawn in heroic how are we supposed to get legendaries?", easy invest in good gathering gear if you took that same Apprentice Lumberjack's Quick-Axe and boosted it up to heroic and enchanted it up to 8 it would give a rarity rating of 88 on the low end add in the clothing at rare on the low end it gives 26 for both plus the baskets 40 you'll be sitting at an upgrade rarity rating of 176 with that set up it would put you well into the legendary range but in my opinion ledgendaries should always have a 1 in 4 or a 1 in 8 chance to proc depending on your rarity rating. now I know that i know I don't have all the information on the backend of this system but at the moment it feels almost worthless to invest into gathering gear when you can just find a legendary out in the wild, at least with a system like this you get out what you put in.
on to a different idea resource maps what if we had caravan like system for gathering. i know resource maps and caravan what do the 2 have in common ,nothing, but what if they added in carts pulled either by the player or by a BOB. this more or less would set up a NPC like for caravans where you could launch your cart from but instead of cargo you load up a resource map. now what is a resource map well its like a treasure map but it for resources and makes a pvp event zone like a caravan. so you would buy the map (either glint, gold, or resource) from resource randy (name WIP) and like the treasure maps a marks a zone out in the node you're in this marked area is visible to other players and spawns in resources one at a time so each time you gather a resource node it spawns another randomly in the zone. ok by why the cart? well the cart is where all the resources are collected so instead of filling your bags the point is to fill the cart. now for the pvp part of this since open world pvp. the cart can be claimed by another player with a channel like in siege capture points whether its caped by killing the player who spawned it or by being sneaky and stealing without them knowing with stolen carts being able to be turned in early. so what do you get from this event well you could get bulk resources or you could get a rare resource. making an alterative to my other suggest.
welp that's all from me. please let me know what yall think or if you need something clarified."
I would love to see a gathering system where resources are part of the open world and their location matters. High-value materials should appear in dangerous areas, encouraging risk versus reward gameplay. It would be great if resources could be depleted and take time to regenerate, forcing players to move, explore, or even fight over the best spots.
I’d also like to see mechanics where large resource nodes or rare materials trigger conflict or cooperation between players. For example, needing a group to protect gatherers in high-risk zones or having special tools and professions to increase gathering efficiency.
A system like that would make gathering feel meaningful, dynamic, and directly connected to the economy and PvP environment, instead of being just a passive side activity.
I like the segmentation and requirement to specialize in order to master a specific type of gathering. I don't like that it all feels like a giant placeholder with 0 depth. I don't like that you have specific gatherable nodes that give you specific type of item. Lack of gathering skill tree that will have impact on item rarity and quantity is evident.
What makes a gatherable system fun for you? What kind of scenarios would you like to see encouraged through the system? An example could be finding a high-level Surveyor to party up with, or a party to lock down a nearby cave full of gatherables.
Is fun to run around explore and find resources. There is a good feeling when you crest a hill and spot the field full of flowers in front of you, or turning the corner in the mountain and finding massive mining deposits.
I'd like to see some type of cooperative gathering. Lets say if you survey the land, you could detect a gold vein instead of gold mining nodes and it would require multiple people to be gathering at the same time to mine the vein, but everyone would get the resource and rarity/quantity would be influenced by gathering specialization skill tree. Similar could be done for giant trees or flowerbeds.
There should be a specialization skill tree and it should have significant impact on gathering.
Are there gatherable systems in other games that you enjoy? What about those mechanics do you find fun?
Which of the upcoming gathering-related changes excites or intrigues you the most, and why?
I quite like the gathering in games, were if multiple people, in the same group, started gathering the same resource, everyone received the gatherables. I like AOC style of resource separation, I wouldn't change it.
The most exciting is artisan/specialization skill tree, the obfuscation of resource, like it was done in the gathering presentation stream years ago. And the abolishment of static rarity spawns, with the gathering specialization skill tree/equipment replacement for increased rarity finds. I'd also like to see a lot more varied respawn timers, for example between 30min and 8hours, not 4 hours +-20min.
Personally, I would like to say that press "F" to mine rock has been a tremendous experience for me. So I don't really care for adding the gathering minigames to this already riveting process. But not opposed to it either as long as it's something meaningful. I don't want there to be skill checks, as I feel the role of a "check" should be fulfilled by your gear.
I like the suggestion to make it so that each swing with your gathering tool extracts a portion of a resource in the node. Maybe make it for only certain professions like mining and herbalism, to give a different feel to them.
I like that I can tell what a resource is from a distance. I think that creating too much obfucsation there would take away agency from me as a player in deciding which resources I want to gather vs what I choose to skip.
I like the bag system. I like that there is that need to choose between gathering everything in your path but having to make frequent trips back to town as a result vs going out on longer trips to gather a lot of a particular resource but leaving other valuable stuff behind. But I think it could use some iteration because having 2-5 rare+ materials each occupy an entire slot in your bag just feels bad.
I like that there is a system where I can turn in the common resources in bulk in exchange for rewards from the node. It keeps harvesting the more common resources relevant.
I dislike the way artisan gear currently works. If you are gathering resources from different professions on the same trip (e.g. mining and herbalism) then you have to reequip your gear each time you switch between a type of resource you are gathering.
Either:
- Make it so you can wear all artisan gear simultaneously, just like you already can with artisan tools.
Or
- Make it so you can't change your artisan gear at all while you're out on a gathering trip. Thus forcing players to pick the right "fit" for the task they are about to embark on.
But having to min/max by constantly re-equipping your artisan gear is just annoying.
pvp for resources is a good idea wow. Firstly your taking single players out of the game . It's hard enough already . Secondly you will get guilds that are hundreds strong patrolling them for resources and wiping out anyone who tries to compete.
Resources should be random spawns all over the map . Then it would be joyous when you find something to mine or cut down or harvest. No timers , no set location pure random spawns totally unfarmable. Probably on the same frequency as now, but random.
2) gathering isn’t interactive. You hit F and wait. Add a small skill based minigame that has a small impact on the outcome, like targeting the weakspot (from crowfall) or something else. I like the plans for surveying changes. Eager to see how that shapes up.
3) make some resources quite dangerous to get. Like kill a monster then harvest its body. Improve NPC coding to make them more of a threat to low level players gathering in high level areas.
4) let us swap gear sets. Even better, let us craft gear with varied stats… instead of making a “lumberjack shirt” that comes with fixed stats… let the crafter input different materials to get different results (like a gathering shirt that has a few stats for herbs as well as a few stats for lumberjacking). Get rid of combat stats on the artisan gear. Let combinatorics help you here…more varied drops (prefixes/suffixes)… more combinations of crafting… and more choice among crafters for how they specialize and differentiate themselves from others.
5) improve the dimensions of the node storage specialty bags. The node storage lumberjacking bag should be able to hold more herbs than the general bag (it does not). The recent stack size increase on these was nice, but isn’t enough.
6) Add pvp resource objectives like Shadowbane’s mines. During certain time periods (every 3h? 6h?), a bunch of regional resource generators (gem mine, lumberyard, garden, fishing pier… etc) become active for ownership - guilds fight over control, and the winner gets the ability to transport the resources that trickle out and build up over time. Enough of these go active in each region that one guild should have difficulty contesting them all. Use your imagination here. There’s that first fight for ownership then more possible fights as people try to periodically move the resources.
7) consider having the guild skill tree have a few nodes where guilds can choose certain gathering affinity. Not gain access to everything, but to add some flavor to each guild. I dislike how the current guild xp tree is laid out and the range of choices. Also, it isn’t very accessible to smaller guilds. I’d love to see guild skill tree rewards that reward you for playing with your guild, especially if you choose not to invest in the +guild size options.
Dwarven Guild est. 1996. Hammers High!
I have been gathering for a long time in the Alpha and like the structure and how complex it is.. It takes a while to learn (as you will see from my big reports {sorry about those.. I was so confused at the beginning } :-) ) .. I have stopped gathering once I got stuck with needing level 20 to progress and i missed out on levelling as I was gathering.
What aspects of the current gathering system do you like and dislike?
I sometimes have erratic hours so cannot always find a group so I enjoy gathers. It was an opportunity to explore and love the feeling when you get a legendary. Then go back and process.
The challenge I find is that you have to make a choice, level or gather. I missed out on the levelling with my guild as I was gathering. So i wish I had just levelled to max level and then gone for gathering. Now I feel stuck at level 17 when everyone is 25.. Solo play is not that much fun.
I wish there were more of the items you need to process, craft early on. As you need to be able to sell / craft to make any profit.
The lack of Copper in the early game was demoralising and then when i got some, there was nothing to do with it.
What makes a gatherable system fun for you? What kind of scenarios would you like to see encouraged through the system? An example could be finding a high-level Surveyor to party up with, or a party to lock down a nearby cave full of gatherables.
I like the relaxing nature of gathering. Being in lovely locations with great music. The problem is when we are gathering we are weak. so any PvP will kill us or high level mobs just destroy.. I liked having mobs I could solo near gatherable so i could gather and level up. I was not able to find a gatherable group so grouping up would just mean I could not gather
Are there gatherable systems in other games that you enjoy? What about those mechanics do you find fun?
I think New World was the most interesting as you could get what you needed and it was integrated into the crafting.. Although they screwed up with too many useless recipes.
Gathering is fun because of the relaxing nature of it.. but it also is connected to processing and crafting.. So there is a quest each time you go out. I just need another 100 Dafs so i can make some ink to craft that scroll I want... For me gathering is fun / like life when there is a larger purpose behind it.
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Which of the upcoming gathering-related changes excites or intrigues you the most, and why
So excited to see the new integrated gathering / processing / crafting system... For me I enjoy gathering for the chance to get make cool things like scrolls.
I dislike large amounts of gametime spent with zero productivity/reward. A grind isn't an issue, as long as you are making progress, it is much better to extend the length of the grind, than to decrease the chance of progress. This is why in theme-park MMOs, most players would prefer "Kill 20 rats" quests than "Gather 5 random (25%) drops from killing rats". The negativity generated from killing rats without a drop, is 3 times greater than the positivity gained from the times you do get a drop. Any game designer that designs a quest like that isn't thinking clearly, and is in the wrong profession IMHO.
I like the "Gacha" element of gathering, each time you mine a node, it is like opening a gashapon or kinder egg. This is why going long periods without opening a node, because you cant find a node, isn't fun.
What makes a gatherable system fun for you? What kind of scenarios would you like to see encouraged through the system? An example could be finding a high-level Surveyor to party up with, or a party to lock down a nearby cave full of gatherables.
It is very difficult to add anything, that doesn't detract from what is a very simple payoff mechanic. The whole system thrives on the egalitarian nature of the competition, and it's accessibility. This is something where it wont hurt if you don't feel sociable; where you can enjoy the game at your own pace without any pressure. Less really is more.
One thing I would add is a supremely rare drop, to every node. Perhaps an end game material used in the best items or an end game recipe (fragment?) and/or possibly a seed (fragment?) for a freehold resource generator. The equivalent of a lottery win, only one drops on the server every few days. Generally speaking make the rewards more engaging, and not allow outside interference until endgame. At that point it is fine to make it more competitive and PvX.
I would also think of increasing bag space. Time spent running back and forth because you got many different qualities of stuff. Is time you are not enjoying the game. This is also why PvX against gatherers is such a lousy idea before end-game. There is no upside to making the run back to town for the gatherer, even if they are not attacked. There is no upside, it is a 100% negative experience. There is absolutely no way you can spin it into a positive for the gatherer. Making a negative experience even worse, is not wise.
Always think of reducing negative feedback that makes you want to quit, and encouraging positive feedback that makes you want to get to end-game, and play more! Getting a unique or rare end game item at a relatively low level is a massive incentive to get to end game, even if it is only cosmetic, or a fraction of what you need for anything.
Also one general point about the risk/reward pillar. A risk that you cannot avoid or opt out of isn't a risk. It is an environmental effect. The only way to avoid it is to not play the game, and the reward is inconsequential if there is no way to mitigate it. You make the risk of loss at PvP too high and no one will play the game for long, not even the most self-confident PvPers. You will get the Highlander problem, where there can "Be only one".
Which of the upcoming gathering-related changes excites or intrigues you the most, and why?
Allowing custom amounts in processing is long overdue. The better spawning mechanics also. More chances to play the gacha game and less wasted time processing, less storage space required and less risk carrying stuff around.