PvP

It was stated early on that Ashes open world PvP would be a flagged PvP system. Has this changed? If so Im out. I see a vical minority wanting full drop pvp, and complaining about corruption. 

SWG was flagged PvP and some of the funnest PvP ive ever experienced, while Archeage was open PvP and by far the worst. Please do nit doom the game to failure by removing the mentioned flag system for an open pvp with "consequences" as we have seen every time fails specracularly.


Eggonomicon
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Comments

  • If I remember correctly there will be a flagging system, so you can flag yourself as a combatant, yes and then you're free game. But non-combatants can also be attacked, but at the cost of corruption.
    How greatly corruption would debuff you is still subject to future testing though.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    They have always called it a flagging system and if you read it's mechanics you would know that it has always been 'open pvp with "consequences"'. 
  • You can kill anyone anywhere but killing a non-combatant will result in corruption, just damaging a player (corrupted players dont count) will result in being flagged as a combatant (combatants can kill each other without getting corrupted).
  • " ... I see a vical minority wanting full drop pvp, and complaining about corruption ... "
    Its hard to complain about something that has yet to be tested
  • As long as the corruption system gets really severe really quickly then I think we'll be fine. Also will you gain corruption if you attack a non combatant who then gets killed by a mob?
  • Bink said:
    As long as the corruption system gets really severe really quickly then I think we'll be fine. Also will you gain corruption if you attack a non combatant who then gets killed by a mob?
    Probably not, as you didn't kill that person. You would simply be flagged for doing dmg, which would leave you open to attack, but not corruption

  • Don't go there, its a waste of your time and honestly that thread can stop being bumped several months ago.

    Eragale said:
    " ... I see a vical minority wanting full drop pvp, and complaining about corruption ... "
    Its hard to complain about something that has yet to be tested
    Fake news. This system isn't new or innovative. Go look into Lineage 2, its some 15 years old, but almost a verbatim of the AoC system. Works great, anyone who is complaining just hasn't educated themselves yet.
  • Bink said:
    As long as the corruption system gets really severe really quickly then I think we'll be fine. Also will you gain corruption if you attack a non combatant who then gets killed by a mob?
    I don't think we have any clarification on this and some of us assumed yes but i could see it going either way.
  • I think if you attack someone who is unflagged it should start a timer and if they die within that timer and they remain a unflagged your corruption should go up. That's just my opinion though! It would make it so you couldn't greif someone by taking them down to low health and just harassing them.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited September 2018
    Dub post
  • As that church guy said Line][Age is the inspiration for the corruption system. I am glad IS is implementing it. 



    Open World PvP and this system gives roques and nukers a class advantage if you will without making them OP.
    A good warrior will turn around and fight and win. A tank will laugh at the attempt and end up being the chaser. Rogues themselves if attacked they can confuse the mobs to avoid agro, use shadow tactics and go on the offence.

    The corruption system is basically this:
    If attacked fight back and win.
    Or, dont fight back and let the aggressor pay huge consequences for killing you.

    Everybody in the area will go after him so that they can LOOT HIS GEAR upon his death.

    In my group we have a stoner. He kills random players at times causing our whole group to have to look after him instead of progressing. He gets yelled at big times. 

    I have killed players at times. My heart beat goes up like crazy until I get rid of corruption. If I log out corrupted I dont log back in for a day unless a friend tells me it's clear to log in.

    Corrupted players are in such a hurry to get rid of their status that make mistakes and end up dying to players or mobs, LOSING GEAR.

    People should stop being so fragile and week. "Eeeeew the whole world is trying to hurt meeee". How can you live like that?


  • The only thing that might come out as less of a deterrent is if less actual gear drops from corrupted players than does in Lineage.

    Other than that, I agree that dying in unexpected PVP isn't really as bad as some let it feel like it is. That is, though, really a subjective opinion and not my right to expect others to agree to.

  • It reminds me of AA flagging system, but I enjoyed the penalty of jail compared to corruption. I do think the way they are implementing the flagging system will do exactly what they want, to deter griefing other players.
  • After reading the flagging system I would opt for a full pvp system. I like the idea of being able to attack and kill anyone at any time. I suppose I would have to play and experience this "corruption" system. Sounds more annoying than effective. But, if you gain equal amount of rewards for pvp as you do for killing combatants and non-combatants then I don't think I'll mind. I just don't want to run across someone who is afk and think, "welp can't kill this person because I gain +10% and will now lose -90% because of corruption" That's not fun and the game is highly PvP centric. As long corruption isn't too severe and they make noncombatants penalty not too severe either it sounds like it'll be fine. You still keep open world PVP which every MMORPG should have.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2018
    After reading the flagging system I would opt for a full pvp system. I like the idea of being able to attack and kill anyone at any time. I suppose I would have to play and experience this "corruption" system. Sounds more annoying than effective. But, if you gain equal amount of rewards for pvp as you do for killing combatants and non-combatants then I don't think I'll mind. I just don't want to run across someone who is afk and think, "welp can't kill this person because I gain +10% and will now lose -90% because of corruption" That's not fun and the game is highly PvP centric. As long corruption isn't too severe and they make noncombatants penalty not too severe either it sounds like it'll be fine. You still keep open world PVP which every MMORPG should have.
    I disagree. I hope the corruption system is pleanty harsh for killing an un-flagged player. If it's not severe it won't stop anyone from ganking or harassing people who don't want to do pvp. I love PvP and I'm glad this game is PvP heavy but the corruption system needs to be severe to deter the griefing. 
  • Bink said:
    After reading the flagging system I would opt for a full pvp system. I like the idea of being able to attack and kill anyone at any time. I suppose I would have to play and experience this "corruption" system. Sounds more annoying than effective. But, if you gain equal amount of rewards for pvp as you do for killing combatants and non-combatants then I don't think I'll mind. I just don't want to run across someone who is afk and think, "welp can't kill this person because I gain +10% and will now lose -90% because of corruption" That's not fun and the game is highly PvP centric. As long corruption isn't too severe and they make noncombatants penalty not too severe either it sounds like it'll be fine. You still keep open world PVP which every MMORPG should have.
    If it's not severe it won't stop anyone from ganking or harassing people who don't want to do pvp
    But this is a PVP game. Killing someone in a PVP game is never griefing. Doesn't matter if you're in the middle of a fight or afk. You don't want to deter PVP ever in a PVP centric game. And I don't know what you mean by ganking. What you think you should be exempt from being attacked because your afk or engage in a fight with monster? That's not how PVP works, or should ever work. All people would do would run into a group of enemies and agro them. Open world unrestricted PvP is the best PVP. I'm ok with the corruption system adding an element of consequence but it should never deter any PvP for any reason.
  • But this is a PVP game. Killing someone in a PVP game is never griefing. Doesn't matter if you're in the middle of a fight or afk. You don't want to deter PVP ever in a PVP centric game. And I don't know what you mean by ganking. What you think you should be exempt from being attacked because your afk or engage in a fight with monster? That's not how PVP works, or should ever work. All people would do would run into a group of enemies and agro them. Open world unrestricted PvP is the best PVP. I'm ok with the corruption system adding an element of consequence but it should never deter any PvP for any reason.
    Its not a pve or pvp game. Its PvX as stated time and time again by Steven. Both are crucial to the game. In the FAQ on the main website is says how does pvp work is explained as "PvP in Ashes of Creation is intended to be both organized and organic. We want to create an atmosphere where PvP is meaningful by utilizing different systems that create fluid PvP events including: Castle Sieges, City defense/assaults, Caravans, and a scenario-based Arena combat. For our open world, we have designed a flagging system that severely deters people from griefing other players." What you say shouldn't be, is exactly what the corruption system is to do.

    It discourages random killing. When I say random killing I do mean that, and not random pvp in the open world. Slap someone a few times, and if the don't fight back move on. If they do fight back, well there's your open pvp.

    Killing people who don't want pvp is griefing, and so is choosing to not fight back, corrupting the other player if they decide to kill you.
  • Bink said:
    After reading the flagging system I would opt for a full pvp system. I like the idea of being able to attack and kill anyone at any time. I suppose I would have to play and experience this "corruption" system. Sounds more annoying than effective. But, if you gain equal amount of rewards for pvp as you do for killing combatants and non-combatants then I don't think I'll mind. I just don't want to run across someone who is afk and think, "welp can't kill this person because I gain +10% and will now lose -90% because of corruption" That's not fun and the game is highly PvP centric. As long corruption isn't too severe and they make noncombatants penalty not too severe either it sounds like it'll be fine. You still keep open world PVP which every MMORPG should have.
    If it's not severe it won't stop anyone from ganking or harassing people who don't want to do pvp
    But this is a PVP game. Killing someone in a PVP game is never griefing. Doesn't matter if you're in the middle of a fight or afk. You don't want to deter PVP ever in a PVP centric game. And I don't know what you mean by ganking. What you think you should be exempt from being attacked because your afk or engage in a fight with monster? That's not how PVP works, or should ever work. All people would do would run into a group of enemies and agro them. Open world unrestricted PvP is the best PVP. I'm ok with the corruption system adding an element of consequence but it should never deter any PvP for any reason.
    No this is not a PvP game.  Nor is it a PvE game. Ashes is a PvX game.  All are interdependent  on each other.   Therefore a balance of sorts was needed to entice players from each type of game to enjoy Ashes of Creation.   This game is about consequences and un-provoked PvP or lack of fighting back has it's consequences.  

    Further more, I must argue that the best PvP is PvP that has a meaningful purpose and goals beside random killing and the self inflated egotistical idea that someone is the best because they can kill an unsuspecting person.  
  • Corruption is like self concious irl. If you do something morally wrongz youve got to pay the price for it.
     I think its smart to have a system like that to avoid griefing but I really hope there will be an area(s) like wilderness in runescape. 

  • If you mean a free pvp area where you can drop almost everything on your person if you die, the closest I'm aware of is corruption having the increasing potential to just about that.

    If you just mean areas for pvp, castle/node sieges and caravans will auto flag you as combatants.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2018
    If you mean a free pvp area where you can drop almost everything on your person if you die, the closest I'm aware of is corruption having the increasing potential to just about that.

    If you just mean areas for pvp, castle/node sieges and caravans will auto flag you as combatants.
    Actually you have a choice when entering the "bubble" surrounding an active pvp flagging area of Attack, Defend, or Ignore. The only people that are "auto flagged" for pvp are the node citizens of a node that is under siege as they are considered active garrision. So if you are just out riding between points A and B and run into a caravan unexpectedly, or enter a node that is currently under siege, you will have choice in whether you participate or not. If you stay green as you ride on by could someone still "force flag" attack on you? Sure. But then they would be under the corruption system. The bar for gear dropping from corruption has been stated to be high, as in several kills high, so anyone that does lose gear due to corruption has no excuse of "Wut? I didn't know that could happen?" This is to stop our more crafty players who have already said that they would be using empty caravans as mobile pvp zones to get around corruption mechanics.
  • But this is a PVP game. Killing someone in a PVP game is never griefing. Doesn't matter if you're in the middle of a fight or afk. You don't want to deter PVP ever in a PVP centric game. And I don't know what you mean by ganking. What you think you should be exempt from being attacked because your afk or engage in a fight with monster? That's not how PVP works, or should ever work. All people would do would run into a group of enemies and agro them. Open world unrestricted PvP is the best PVP. I'm ok with the corruption system adding an element of consequence but it should never deter any PvP for any reason.
    Killing somebody over and over who doesn't want to pvp is exactly what griefing is.  This can only happen in a pvp type game.  Also, ganking and griefing isn't true pvp.  They want more meaningful pvp which makes sense.  I personally don't care if the game uses flagging or fully open world pvp.  However, I don't believe they should give gankers any incentive for their pathetic action, such as rewarding them with someone's gatherables.  That should only be for the caravan system.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2018
    I personally think thay corruption needs minor adjustement because at the moment you lose more than you gain when defending your resources.
    E.g. You kill someone stealing your spot refusing combat, youre corrupted.
     Another player comes, you defend and have even more corruption.
    The first person you killed is back by now, even more corruption.
     Now bountry hunters come and kill you and you drop your sword? gg

    I saw once suggestion where you would register to the spot you're grinding and then someone could kill you free of corruption to steal your spot but you could kill whomever stealing your resources w/o corruption.

    When someone knows the spot is takien and theyre still collecting they know they are stealing.

    Just like the corruption in most scenarios is to punish player for doing morally wrong.

  • I think removing the effectiveness of you combat penalty in corrupted needs to go. That's easily abuseable. Everything else can stay as they're good penalties while still allowing freedom to do what you want. But you shouldn't lose your effectiveness to fight as a corrupted. You already gain harsher death penalties, more chance to lose items and you are on everyone's map for bounty hunters, which in itself is the most detrimental penalty. 
  • I think removing the effectiveness of you combat penalty in corrupted needs to go. That's easily abuseable. Everything else can stay as they're good penalties while still allowing freedom to do what you want. But you shouldn't lose your effectiveness to fight as a corrupted. You already gain harsher death penalties, more chance to lose items and you are on everyone's map for bounty hunters, which in itself is the most detrimental penalty. 
    Losing effectiveness most definitely should be in the game.  They do not want griefing.  Without it, someone could just camp somebody over and over.  If they are more powerful, then death penalties won't come into play.  And if done far away from a high enough military node, there won't be as many bounty hunters.

  • @Nibiru97

    It most certainly should not be in the game. You get increased death penalty the more corrupt you become, you lose more resources when you die and you are displayed on a map for everyone to see and on top of that it'll take several deaths or time wasting quest to remove it. Your ability to fight should not be compromised. You could easily exploit corrupting people intentionally to the point that you corrupt them for you advantage. What if there's a raid of 40 people setting up and you keep sending in a death squad of a few people to interrupt their planning, you won't engage all of them, corrupting them to the point they won't be effective. Same for group, solo, etc.. 

    There's plenty of penalty on a corrupted. Losing effectiveness in combat should not be one, and honestly I'd be surprised if that ever makes it to the game. 
  • @Nibiru97

    It most certainly should not be in the game. You get increased death penalty the more corrupt you become, you lose more resources when you die and you are displayed on a map for everyone to see and on top of that it'll take several deaths or time wasting quest to remove it. Your ability to fight should not be compromised. You could easily exploit corrupting people intentionally to the point that you corrupt them for you advantage. What if there's a raid of 40 people setting up and you keep sending in a death squad of a few people to interrupt their planning, you won't engage all of them, corrupting them to the point they won't be effective. Same for group, solo, etc.. 

    There's plenty of penalty on a corrupted. Losing effectiveness in combat should not be one, and honestly I'd be surprised if that ever makes it to the game. 


    We don't have deleveling, instead what we have is experience debt. Now the more experience debt you accrue, the greater the detriment to your character; not to the point where you can not get out of the debt. There will always be a way forward to remove your debt.[59] – Steven Sharif


    Corruption and ineffectiveness builds over a period of time,  or so many meaningless kills. It doesn't just happen it BUILDS over time.  The PvP player is in control of his/her own fate. 

    It seems to me that a person's ability to fight being compromised is a great way to deter unsolicited PvP.   The ganker just might think twice before hitting another person.   Let's face it,  players  can craft or buy multiple sets of armor if they so wish to take a chance at wasting valuable resources. Or maybe they feel powerful enough to not wear anything but low level armor.  Also to be honest why would he carry any valuable resources to be lost?   Gankers care more about aggravating others, not meaningful PvP.   Let them suffer the consequences of their actions.    As it is the person they attack must suffer for an act that they wanted no part of. 

    Ashes is being developed as a PvX game with encouragement of MEANINGFUL PvP and community involvement.    Trying to discourage ganking and harassing of single players is  needed in order to bring both PvP and PvE players together.  

      

     
  • The stat reduction is not going to go away. Since death exp debt doesn't delevel you, we already had our best and brightest gankers let us know last year that being max level would have no consequences on them. They would eat years of exp grind back if there was no penalty to their effectiveness. The plain fact that you don't like it, and are already upset by it, means that it is working. As so many have pointed out, you want to polish your epeen, stick to sanctioned pvp that there is plenty of. The "they were in mah resource patch!!!" argument is sad and tired and is not winning you any converts.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited October 2018

    Plz delete

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