What features you dislike in MMOs and hope Ashes won't have?

Destruction is in (as in your equipment takes damage and has to be repaired), but @Steven said that he wants to minimize the RNG on gear.

Nagash wrote: »

UndeadCanadianGamer wrote: »

Nagash wrote: »

Autumnleaf wrote: »

Nagash wrote: »

shitty lore that is copy and pasted off others

looks at WoW

Eh I loved the Warcraft Universe since W3 was my first game, but wow recently is looking really bad, it used to be great but the new developments are headache inducing.

that because early Warcraft was just copied and paste of Warhammer

I heard a rumour that when Blizzard were building Starcraft, they had Marine, Tyranid, and Eldar figures to copy.

I would not put it past them after all starcraft is just Warhammer lite

I have played Warhammer and Warcraft based games since 90's, I am quite familiar with both franchises and their background stories. However, I have not seen refenrences between these two or seen any kind of connection. I would like to know where these copy paste comments are based on? Or are these more like opinions?

Damokles

ferryman wrote: »

Nagash wrote: »

UndeadCanadianGamer wrote: »

Nagash wrote: »

Autumnleaf wrote: »

Nagash wrote: »

shitty lore that is copy and pasted off others

looks at WoW

Eh I loved the Warcraft Universe since W3 was my first game, but wow recently is looking really bad, it used to be great but the new developments are headache inducing.

that because early Warcraft was just copied and paste of Warhammer

I heard a rumour that when Blizzard were building Starcraft, they had Marine, Tyranid, and Eldar figures to copy.

I would not put it past them after all starcraft is just Warhammer lite

I have played Warhammer and Warcraft based games since 90's, I am quite familiar with both franchises and their background stories. However, I have not seen refenrences between these two or seen any kind of connection. I would like to know where these copy paste comments are based on? Or are these more like opinions?

Many people are of the opinion, that the early starcraft concepts are based on warhammer.
Eldar = Protoss (highly evolved aliens, with way better technology and portals that let them bring troops directly on the battlefield, think they are better than others because they are an older race, and are pretty decadent)
Tyranid = Zerg (always hungry monstrous aliens, that have a hivemind and need someone to lead them, or they fall back to their base instincts, always on the hunt to consume other races)
Space Marines = Humans (use power armour, giant robots and vehicles, fight with massive oversized guns that are actually bolt-throwers)

I have not played that much Starcraft, so I can not say much about that, and I was more referring to earlier comments in that quote thread about Warhammer and Warcraft. Warhammer has been one of the paragons of Warcraft, but surely not the only one. For example Tolkien and D&D have had a huge influence to Warcraft like both have had impact for Warhammer too. Every new game takes influence from other games and then mixes those with own ideas. If we look Warcaft's development, it has evolved to something totally own with all the background stories and lore, and is now one of the most copied franchise in the genre. I am a fan of both concepts so I looking this really objective, I understand the similarities (at least at the beginning), possible cancelation of Warhammer concept for Warcraft1, but still I do not see Warcraft as a copy pasted version of Warhammer.

ferryman wrote: »

Nagash wrote: »

UndeadCanadianGamer wrote: »

Nagash wrote: »

Autumnleaf wrote: »

Nagash wrote: »

shitty lore that is copy and pasted off others

looks at WoW

Eh I loved the Warcraft Universe since W3 was my first game, but wow recently is looking really bad, it used to be great but the new developments are headache inducing.

that because early Warcraft was just copied and paste of Warhammer

I heard a rumour that when Blizzard were building Starcraft, they had Marine, Tyranid, and Eldar figures to copy.

I would not put it past them after all starcraft is just Warhammer lite

I have played Warhammer and Warcraft based games since 90's, I am quite familiar with both franchises and their background stories. However, I have not seen refenrences between these two or seen any kind of connection. I would like to know where these copy paste comments are based on? Or are these more like opinions?

I can't speak for the later years of warcraft but I can talk about the lore in the first years.

Both have greenskin hoards which have strong barbaric orks, smart and cunning goblins and trolls
Both have deamon hordes that want to controll the world
both have had undead invasion that almost killed everyone
The fight between Tirion Fordring and arthus is the same as the fight between nagash and Alcadizaar
Azhag the Slaughterer is Orgrim Doomhammer
Grimgor IronhideWurrzag is Thrall
Wurrzag is gul'dan
Karl franz is Anduin Wrynn

These are the ones of the top of my head. If you really look into the lore of both, you will see a lot of similarities. I'm not saying WoW is a Warhammer clone in this day and age but when it first came out it was a shock to see

Nagash wrote: »

ferryman wrote: »

Nagash wrote: »

UndeadCanadianGamer wrote: »

Nagash wrote: »

Autumnleaf wrote: »

Nagash wrote: »

shitty lore that is copy and pasted off others

looks at WoW

Eh I loved the Warcraft Universe since W3 was my first game, but wow recently is looking really bad, it used to be great but the new developments are headache inducing.

that because early Warcraft was just copied and paste of Warhammer

I heard a rumour that when Blizzard were building Starcraft, they had Marine, Tyranid, and Eldar figures to copy.

I would not put it past them after all starcraft is just Warhammer lite

I have played Warhammer and Warcraft based games since 90's, I am quite familiar with both franchises and their background stories. However, I have not seen refenrences between these two or seen any kind of connection. I would like to know where these copy paste comments are based on? Or are these more like opinions?

I can't speak for the later years of warcraft but I can talk about the lore in the first years.

Both have greenskin hoards which have strong barbaric orks, smart and cunning goblins and trolls
Both have deamon hordes that want to controll the world
both have had undead invasion that almost killed everyone
The fight between Tirion Fordring and arthus is the same as the fight between nagash and Alcadizaar
Azhag the Slaughterer is Orgrim Doomhammer
Grimgor IronhideWurrzag is Thrall
Wurrzag is gul'dan
Karl franz is Anduin Wrynn

These are the ones of the top of my head. If you really look into the lore of both, you will see a lot of similarities. I'm not saying WoW is a Warhammer clone in this day and age but when it first came out it was a shock to see

If we think that first Warcraft: Orcs & Humans, which was published 1994, I guess all those similarities are not coincidence IF the game was supposted to base on Warhammer at first place. However, after the first game, Warcraft took more and more its own path with lore and gamedesigning. The genre, RTS, in other hand was started maybe by Dune 2 and Warhammer came a year later than Warcraft with Warhammer: Shadow of the Horned Rat in 1995. I also played Warcraft 2, Warhammer: Dark Omen and Warhammer Fantasy tabletop later that decade. Even the fantasy settings had similarities, they still felt different concept, and I guess, because the focus was in different things and goals. In addition, in these Warhammer games the focus were more in improving and gearing your units/army and Warcraft games focused more to base building. I never got the feeling I was playing same kind of games, and with later games and expansions these two concepts separated even more of each other.

I am not so much worry about orcs, demons, undeads and their wars/invasions. Those are so widely used in so many games and will be still used in the future. But it might be, that for example the idea of Horde in Warcraft may be from Warhammer (Greenskins) with some flavours, I do not know, just guessing. What it comes to those special characters, I do not have enough knowledge to say much, but you can be right, I do not doubt that.

If I summarize my thoughts shortly, I like both concepts, I have played a lot of games related for both, I can see the similarities especially from the beginning, but to me these two are very different concepts at the same time. And maybe Warcraft was not the only one who copied stuff, Warhammer most likely copied something related for gamedesigning and RTS.

That fair

Well maybe I should also get somewhere with my comments related for Warhammer and Warcraft.. I hope IS bets on lore like these two franchise, you can build so much around well thought and detailed world. The storytelling and the background stories have been Blizzard's asset. And if I think Warhammer, my favourite part has been concept of units, which are different from the masses. Both franchises have been succesful with creating meaningful characters, and which really interests people and awakens some feelings. In too many games the characters are just shallow shells and nothing more.

According to @Steven, he has been working on the lore of Ashes for a long time. It will be detailed and deep.

All that I have heard and read so far is wonderful.

UndeadCanadianGamer wrote: »

According to @Steven, he has been working on the lore of Ashes for a long time. It will be detailed and deep.

All that I have heard and read so far is wonderful.

I do love how dark some of it is

UndeadCanadianGamer wrote: »

According to @Steven, he has been working on the lore of Ashes for a long time. It will be detailed and deep.

All that I have heard and read so far is wonderful.

General speaking (because I do not have knowledge of Steven's skills), working long time with lore and creating detailed world gives a really good base, but still it does not guarantee a great result. You still need creative writing skills and great storytellers to make those ideas alive. I have not seen much anything special and I am a little bit disapointed to all those generic races, simple class names and how all these can create a believable package. However, I kind of like, that we are going back to the Verra and settle again all those ruined lands. That gives nice possibilities if we think of landscapes and background stories. Anyhow, a lot of stuff is still coming so I am kind of hopeful anyway.

We haven't gotten a lot of lore so far as they are keeping it pretty tightly held until the game launches. We don't want to get all the lore beforehand and not be able to discover it ourselves. I hope that they keep a lot of it hidden until us players figure it out. That makes the discovery way more impressive.
Generic races? Have you read any of the information of the races? That is just a teaser of what we will find out over time (and exploration).
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Races

Please remember that this game is not even in Alpha 1 yet. There is still a ways to go. I don't doubt that everyone will be happy with the lore based on what we have seen so far.

I am pretty sure Steven is a pretty good lore writer as he is a GM that has been going for years. You either write some great stuff, or you don't last that long (my GMing is the second one...). Not to mention the number of developers who have worked on lore for games.

@UndeadCanadianGamer Yes I have red the information behind the races, nothing special there, and with generic races I referred for humans, elfs, dwarfs and Orcs. All seen too many times in too many games already.

It was good you remind me we are not in Alpha 1 yet, I had forgotten that already... *sigh*

The most used (and worst) argument in these forums for everything. *facepalm*

Glad I could help.

ferryman wrote: »

@UndeadCanadianGamer Yes I have red the information behind the races, nothing special there, and with generic races I referred for humans, elfs, dwarfs and Orcs. All seen too many times in too many games already.

It was good you remind me we are not in Alpha 1 yet, I had forgotten that already... *sigh*

The most used (and worst) argument in these forums for everything. *facepalm*

I do wish games would expand into other races or at least have their own unique races

Nagash wrote: »

ferryman wrote: »

@UndeadCanadianGamer Yes I have red the information behind the races, nothing special there, and with generic races I referred for humans, elfs, dwarfs and Orcs. All seen too many times in too many games already.

It was good you remind me we are not in Alpha 1 yet, I had forgotten that already... *sigh*

The most used (and worst) argument in these forums for everything. *facepalm*

I do wish games would expand into other races or at least have their own unique races

Yeah that could be one option and will hopefully also happen with future expansions. Still it would be nice to have something less used or unique, and straight from the start, but I understand it may be too late to demand such a thing. I guess you had something like skaven or undead in your mind?