Eh I loved the Warcraft Universe since W3 was my first game, but wow recently is looking really bad, it used to be great but the new developments are headache inducing.
that because early Warcraft was just copied and paste of Warhammer
I heard a rumour that when Blizzard were building Starcraft, they had Marine, Tyranid, and Eldar figures to copy.
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NagashMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Eh I loved the Warcraft Universe since W3 was my first game, but wow recently is looking really bad, it used to be great but the new developments are headache inducing.
that because early Warcraft was just copied and paste of Warhammer
I heard a rumour that when Blizzard were building Starcraft, they had Marine, Tyranid, and Eldar figures to copy.
I would not put it past them after all starcraft is just Warhammer lite
The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
Brainless mobs.
Why is this a thing? They live for years, and all they can do is mindlessly run & swing at you. What about instinct?
*Mobs should have abilities that players need to learn its animation/timing in order to dodge them, instead of facetanking. Facetanking abilities must be always punishable, unless it's designed in a way that somebody has to eat it to protect teammates or prevent full DPS parties or whatever reason.
*The mobs need to think and consider running away or enraging or even evolving out of fear before they die. Maybe get a "frightened" debuff on them when spotting one of their species getting killed.
^
The above shouldn't apply to all mobs or literally-brainless mobs like mushrooms
Yes, it would make it interesting.
Now comes the... but.
I believe that yes, hardcore players would learn all those specific abilities, but Intrepid has to think about casuals too. No one would freely learn the abilities and animations of every different enemy type.
A way to make this more appealing: give all kinds of enemies different and sometimes overlapping movesets.
Humanoids could have skills like: kick(interrupt or knockdown), cheap shot(low duration stun, only like .5sec), sprint, overpower, assault etc
Beasts could have: bite, claw, rend, track, charge, assault, leap, etc
Theye movesets would be accessible to all mobs of that specific category, and those mobs with higher levels would get more abilities with rising levels, that way people would slowly learn about those moves naturally while grindjng/questing.
And then every species has ONE specific ability if the creature has a higher level, like a breath attack for dragons, or other mythical creatures.
Facetanking is important btw, for later raid encounters or dungeons. A tank could just pull the boss all over the rokm, but that would make grouping and positioning pure hell. It is easy to talk about things like dodge tanking, if there are straight up stats that make you dodge.
Brainless mobs.
Why is this a thing? They live for years, and all they can do is mindlessly run & swing at you. What about instinct?
*Mobs should have abilities that players need to learn its animation/timing in order to dodge them, instead of facetanking. Facetanking abilities must be always punishable, unless it's designed in a way that somebody has to eat it to protect teammates or prevent full DPS parties or whatever reason.
*The mobs need to think and consider running away or enraging or even evolving out of fear before they die. Maybe get a "frightened" debuff on them when spotting one of their species getting killed.
^
The above shouldn't apply to all mobs or literally-brainless mobs like mushrooms
It is easy to talk about things like dodge tanking, if there are straight up stats that make you dodge.
yeah that's the thing really. I think they should make combat less stat based (parry, dodge, miss, hit etc ) If you want to dodge an attack, position yourself. You want to hit the target? Aim and hit it. We know tab target is essentially a math equation so 'active combat mechanics' isn't its thing which is why it'll be interesting to see how hybrid combat interaction with mobs will work
I think summoning your mount from your inventory is stupid. I think the concept of having to park your mount somewhere safe, keep it fed, etc. adds to the fun/danger potential.
Be careful what you wish for. Just as too much convenience can take away from the immersion, so can too much "realism" take away from the fun. Red Dead Redemption 2 had horse care like you are describing and it turned that part of the game into a chore.
It's one of those things that sounds fun on paper, but when you actually have to do it regularly it becomes very annoying.
Agree that feeding the horse will just become boring fast. I do like how som mmo game have it so the horse dont vanish when you jump of it. It adds a litle to the game. Down the line mounts might be able to have armor, if we then will be able to color the armor, that would make for some awsome looking mounts.
I just want to point this out about the LFG/LFM functions of a game. It is needed for people who either are casual enough that they do not fit into a guild because their hours will never work with others. There is also the people who just want to play solo and only once in a while want to be part of something bigger.
In my experience most of the time, this turns in like this:
Player 1 joins, P2, p3, etc... kill boss, do dungeon, kill boss. Not even a single word unless you find issues.
It's not always like that, but it feels like taking the bus. You don't engage with strangers. Meanwhile you might talk to your uber driver, somehow there's some sort of rapport.
Also LFG doesn't help newbies either. The functionality is there, you use it, you're a new tank who never tanked, but the game let's you tank. So now you have 3-5 people teaching you to tank or raging at you.
I've seen this happen, and many people using LFG might want to do something fast.
Finally, I understand wanting to play solo, but we're coming back to "cater to every time of gameplay" and in my opinion this is what makes a game lose its identity.
If Dark Souls would have an easy mode, it's not DS anymore. If the game HELPS you isolate yourself and lets you do all content without any other players, it's losing its massive identity as well.
How does that not help a newbie? You either learn through assistance of other people or through being thrown to the wolves. At that point if you did not learn anything than maybe MMOs are not for you.
If dark souls was an MMO it would not be the DS you know now. DS is a single player game and people are purchasing it understanding that there is a set guide line. With ZERO chance of missing out on content since only you the single player can progress the game. On top of that from a business point of view the developers put out a game and whatever happens happens after the game is published. There is no continues large development and loss of resources once it is out there.
Success requires to cater to multiple play styles and you can still obtain the identity of the game. Being a solo player especially in AoC you are already going to miss out on a lot of content. So why make it harder? If AoC is not even remotely casual friendly content wise it will fail. It is a common trend with games that aren't casual friendly. There is FAR more casual players than hardcore players.
I think your wrong. To be good in almost any game, the player needs to put down time and effort.
The world today have guids and information about everything. If a player fails today it will cost him nothing to do a litle bit of research to become better.
The prime example here is WoW classic. The reason it became popular in the first place was that you got in to a open world you had no idea about and it was hard. You as a player had to use you'r head to find a good build and to survive in the world, you made friends because the world was hard and a bad player in your group was better then no group. Then you learned by watching.
It was the same this time around, while I lvled my toon up to 60 I had been in many groups, some bad and some good. I cant remember 1 time anyone kicked another player for the reason of being bad. Those that didnt know what to do, simply asked if anyone else did.
Some of those players I played with for days and I could see the bad players becoming better and better.
I'd also hate to see classes that are either gender or race-locked
I think it could be interesting for some class specs to be specific to races or genders for lore reasons (like a Kunoichi could only be female, as that makes sense). But in terms of the 8 base classes, I agree that they should not be race or gender locked at all.
I'd also hate to see classes that are either gender or race-locked
I think it could be interesting for some class specs to be specific to races or genders for lore reasons (like a Kunoichi could only be female, as that makes sense). But in terms of the 8 base classes, I agree that they should not be race or gender locked at all.
Well, there will be race specific augments, but i dont like it, when a whole class is locked to one or two races.
I dislike it if MMO's dont have a autowalk option, honestly holding W with middlefinger for minutes long makes no sence. Also if you have autowalk and free camera, you can cast skills/dodge while walking and looking 360 making for quick responses when getting attacked from behind.
Give me:
-Autowalk
-Outdoor open world pvp.
-Ways to farm and grind at the usual phase of tab target games.
*I think most veterans will agree that sometimes you come from work and you don't feel like getting into super, intense fast paced combats. Sometimes you want to put some music in the background and chill while grinding.
-Battlegrounds.
*10vs10 is the perfect number, skirmishes are the highlights of MMOs.
-Arenas 2v2, 3v3, 5v5
-Change daily quest to weekly quests.
*Instead of forcing me to login every day for thirty minutes or I'll feel bad if I don't, give me the choice to do them all at once on weekends.
Spare me:
-All across the world fast travel
--P2W
-Hectic and spammy combat system
-Ability to scan someone's stats or equipment (without permission?)
-LFG. Convenient, but it tends to take away the social part of the games.
*LFG gives you, in a way, anonymity so you don't have to act as a decent human being to preserve your good name. LFG is similar to changing names. There is no consequences for toxicity and no social backlash.
-Empty cities.
-Power creep
-Mobility creep. Specially with the action part of the system.
-Particle and spectacular effects scalation.
*Sometimes MMOs look more like a Blade Runner city than a medieval setup. Particles should be used wisely. The over abundance of what I call "unnatural" colors takes the role playing away, and players start getting used to so many flashy colors in their screen that the only way to keep entertaining them is making bigger and more flashy things like a Michael Bay movie.
@wanderingmist
It would be cool if everyone got a rough scetching of the areas etc, and then scribes could make better maps. Make it more interactable with the players, like personalized waypoints etc.
It would also be pretty selfexplanatory why it is that way: We came back back after a few eons right? Well a ton can change in a few eons. We are the pioneers in this situation, it would be dumb to have perfect maps of this region ;D
This sounds cool. Make actual exploration a thing.
The biggest turn off in a game, is a lack of voice acting. I don’t need hundreds of different voices but if half the quests aren’t voiced, if there’s no ambient conversations between NPCs, no hustle and bustle of a busy town, then it really feels very dead and lifeless.
I expected it with WoW given it’s the oldest survivor, but when I got to FFXIV and started playing, I legitimately though my game was bugged because there was no spoken dialogue after the initial cut scenes. It was so jarring and ruined any chance I could have had to be immersed in that world.
Eh I loved the Warcraft Universe since W3 was my first game, but wow recently is looking really bad, it used to be great but the new developments are headache inducing.
that because early Warcraft was just copied and paste of Warhammer
I heard a rumour that when Blizzard were building Starcraft, they had Marine, Tyranid, and Eldar figures to copy.
I would not put it past them after all starcraft is just Warhammer lite
I have played Warhammer and Warcraft based games since 90's, I am quite familiar with both franchises and their background stories. However, I have not seen refenrences between these two or seen any kind of connection. I would like to know where these copy paste comments are based on? Or are these more like opinions?
Eh I loved the Warcraft Universe since W3 was my first game, but wow recently is looking really bad, it used to be great but the new developments are headache inducing.
that because early Warcraft was just copied and paste of Warhammer
I heard a rumour that when Blizzard were building Starcraft, they had Marine, Tyranid, and Eldar figures to copy.
I would not put it past them after all starcraft is just Warhammer lite
I have played Warhammer and Warcraft based games since 90's, I am quite familiar with both franchises and their background stories. However, I have not seen refenrences between these two or seen any kind of connection. I would like to know where these copy paste comments are based on? Or are these more like opinions?
Many people are of the opinion, that the early starcraft concepts are based on warhammer.
Eldar = Protoss (highly evolved aliens, with way better technology and portals that let them bring troops directly on the battlefield, think they are better than others because they are an older race, and are pretty decadent)
Tyranid = Zerg (always hungry monstrous aliens, that have a hivemind and need someone to lead them, or they fall back to their base instincts, always on the hunt to consume other races)
Space Marines = Humans (use power armour, giant robots and vehicles, fight with massive oversized guns that are actually bolt-throwers)
I have not played that much Starcraft, so I can not say much about that, and I was more referring to earlier comments in that quote thread about Warhammer and Warcraft. Warhammer has been one of the paragons of Warcraft, but surely not the only one. For example Tolkien and D&D have had a huge influence to Warcraft like both have had impact for Warhammer too. Every new game takes influence from other games and then mixes those with own ideas. If we look Warcaft's development, it has evolved to something totally own with all the background stories and lore, and is now one of the most copied franchise in the genre. I am a fan of both concepts so I looking this really objective, I understand the similarities (at least at the beginning), possible cancelation of Warhammer concept for Warcraft1, but still I do not see Warcraft as a copy pasted version of Warhammer.
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NagashMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Eh I loved the Warcraft Universe since W3 was my first game, but wow recently is looking really bad, it used to be great but the new developments are headache inducing.
that because early Warcraft was just copied and paste of Warhammer
I heard a rumour that when Blizzard were building Starcraft, they had Marine, Tyranid, and Eldar figures to copy.
I would not put it past them after all starcraft is just Warhammer lite
I have played Warhammer and Warcraft based games since 90's, I am quite familiar with both franchises and their background stories. However, I have not seen refenrences between these two or seen any kind of connection. I would like to know where these copy paste comments are based on? Or are these more like opinions?
I can't speak for the later years of warcraft but I can talk about the lore in the first years.
Both have greenskin hoards which have strong barbaric orks, smart and cunning goblins and trolls
Both have deamon hordes that want to controll the world
both have had undead invasion that almost killed everyone
The fight between Tirion Fordring and arthus is the same as the fight between nagash and Alcadizaar
Azhag the Slaughterer is Orgrim Doomhammer
Grimgor IronhideWurrzag is Thrall
Wurrzag is gul'dan
Karl franz is Anduin Wrynn
These are the ones of the top of my head. If you really look into the lore of both, you will see a lot of similarities. I'm not saying WoW is a Warhammer clone in this day and age but when it first came out it was a shock to see
The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
Eh I loved the Warcraft Universe since W3 was my first game, but wow recently is looking really bad, it used to be great but the new developments are headache inducing.
that because early Warcraft was just copied and paste of Warhammer
I heard a rumour that when Blizzard were building Starcraft, they had Marine, Tyranid, and Eldar figures to copy.
I would not put it past them after all starcraft is just Warhammer lite
I have played Warhammer and Warcraft based games since 90's, I am quite familiar with both franchises and their background stories. However, I have not seen refenrences between these two or seen any kind of connection. I would like to know where these copy paste comments are based on? Or are these more like opinions?
I can't speak for the later years of warcraft but I can talk about the lore in the first years.
Both have greenskin hoards which have strong barbaric orks, smart and cunning goblins and trolls
Both have deamon hordes that want to controll the world
both have had undead invasion that almost killed everyone
The fight between Tirion Fordring and arthus is the same as the fight between nagash and Alcadizaar
Azhag the Slaughterer is Orgrim Doomhammer
Grimgor IronhideWurrzag is Thrall
Wurrzag is gul'dan
Karl franz is Anduin Wrynn
These are the ones of the top of my head. If you really look into the lore of both, you will see a lot of similarities. I'm not saying WoW is a Warhammer clone in this day and age but when it first came out it was a shock to see
If we think that first Warcraft: Orcs & Humans, which was published 1994, I guess all those similarities are not coincidence IF the game was supposted to base on Warhammer at first place. However, after the first game, Warcraft took more and more its own path with lore and gamedesigning. The genre, RTS, in other hand was started maybe by Dune 2 and Warhammer came a year later than Warcraft with Warhammer: Shadow of the Horned Rat in 1995. I also played Warcraft 2, Warhammer: Dark Omen and Warhammer Fantasy tabletop later that decade. Even the fantasy settings had similarities, they still felt different concept, and I guess, because the focus was in different things and goals. In addition, in these Warhammer games the focus were more in improving and gearing your units/army and Warcraft games focused more to base building. I never got the feeling I was playing same kind of games, and with later games and expansions these two concepts separated even more of each other.
I am not so much worry about orcs, demons, undeads and their wars/invasions. Those are so widely used in so many games and will be still used in the future. But it might be, that for example the idea of Horde in Warcraft may be from Warhammer (Greenskins) with some flavours, I do not know, just guessing. What it comes to those special characters, I do not have enough knowledge to say much, but you can be right, I do not doubt that.
If I summarize my thoughts shortly, I like both concepts, I have played a lot of games related for both, I can see the similarities especially from the beginning, but to me these two are very different concepts at the same time. And maybe Warcraft was not the only one who copied stuff, Warhammer most likely copied something related for gamedesigning and RTS.
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NagashMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
That fair
The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
Well maybe I should also get somewhere with my comments related for Warhammer and Warcraft.. I hope IS bets on lore like these two franchise, you can build so much around well thought and detailed world. The storytelling and the background stories have been Blizzard's asset. And if I think Warhammer, my favourite part has been concept of units, which are different from the masses. Both franchises have been succesful with creating meaningful characters, and which really interests people and awakens some feelings. In too many games the characters are just shallow shells and nothing more.
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Undead CanuckMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
According to @Steven, he has been working on the lore of Ashes for a long time. It will be detailed and deep.
All that I have heard and read so far is wonderful.
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NagashMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
According to @Steven, he has been working on the lore of Ashes for a long time. It will be detailed and deep.
All that I have heard and read so far is wonderful.
General speaking (because I do not have knowledge of Steven's skills), working long time with lore and creating detailed world gives a really good base, but still it does not guarantee a great result. You still need creative writing skills and great storytellers to make those ideas alive. I have not seen much anything special and I am a little bit disapointed to all those generic races, simple class names and how all these can create a believable package. However, I kind of like, that we are going back to the Verra and settle again all those ruined lands. That gives nice possibilities if we think of landscapes and background stories. Anyhow, a lot of stuff is still coming so I am kind of hopeful anyway.
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Undead CanuckMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
We haven't gotten a lot of lore so far as they are keeping it pretty tightly held until the game launches. We don't want to get all the lore beforehand and not be able to discover it ourselves. I hope that they keep a lot of it hidden until us players figure it out. That makes the discovery way more impressive.
Generic races? Have you read any of the information of the races? That is just a teaser of what we will find out over time (and exploration). https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Races
Please remember that this game is not even in Alpha 1 yet. There is still a ways to go. I don't doubt that everyone will be happy with the lore based on what we have seen so far.
I am pretty sure Steven is a pretty good lore writer as he is a GM that has been going for years. You either write some great stuff, or you don't last that long (my GMing is the second one...). Not to mention the number of developers who have worked on lore for games.
@UndeadCanadianGamer Yes I have red the information behind the races, nothing special there, and with generic races I referred for humans, elfs, dwarfs and Orcs. All seen too many times in too many games already.
It was good you remind me we are not in Alpha 1 yet, I had forgotten that already... *sigh*
The most used (and worst) argument in these forums for everything. *facepalm*
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Undead CanuckMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Glad I could help.
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NagashMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
@UndeadCanadianGamer Yes I have red the information behind the races, nothing special there, and with generic races I referred for humans, elfs, dwarfs and Orcs. All seen too many times in too many games already.
It was good you remind me we are not in Alpha 1 yet, I had forgotten that already... *sigh*
The most used (and worst) argument in these forums for everything. *facepalm*
I do wish games would expand into other races or at least have their own unique races
The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
@UndeadCanadianGamer Yes I have red the information behind the races, nothing special there, and with generic races I referred for humans, elfs, dwarfs and Orcs. All seen too many times in too many games already.
It was good you remind me we are not in Alpha 1 yet, I had forgotten that already... *sigh*
The most used (and worst) argument in these forums for everything. *facepalm*
I do wish games would expand into other races or at least have their own unique races
Yeah that could be one option and will hopefully also happen with future expansions. Still it would be nice to have something less used or unique, and straight from the start, but I understand it may be too late to demand such a thing. I guess you had something like skaven or undead in your mind?
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NagashMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
@UndeadCanadianGamer Yes I have red the information behind the races, nothing special there, and with generic races I referred for humans, elfs, dwarfs and Orcs. All seen too many times in too many games already.
It was good you remind me we are not in Alpha 1 yet, I had forgotten that already... *sigh*
The most used (and worst) argument in these forums for everything. *facepalm*
I do wish games would expand into other races or at least have their own unique races
Yeah that could be one option and will hopefully also happen with future expansions. Still it would be nice to have something less used or unique, and straight from the start, but I understand it may be too late to demand such a thing. I guess you had something like skaven or undead in your mind?
not many games let you play as undead but what I had in mind was races like naga or demons you know something you only see as npcs
The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
Comments
I heard a rumour that when Blizzard were building Starcraft, they had Marine, Tyranid, and Eldar figures to copy.
I would not put it past them after all starcraft is just Warhammer lite
Yes, it would make it interesting.
Now comes the... but.
I believe that yes, hardcore players would learn all those specific abilities, but Intrepid has to think about casuals too. No one would freely learn the abilities and animations of every different enemy type.
A way to make this more appealing: give all kinds of enemies different and sometimes overlapping movesets.
Humanoids could have skills like: kick(interrupt or knockdown), cheap shot(low duration stun, only like .5sec), sprint, overpower, assault etc
Beasts could have: bite, claw, rend, track, charge, assault, leap, etc
Theye movesets would be accessible to all mobs of that specific category, and those mobs with higher levels would get more abilities with rising levels, that way people would slowly learn about those moves naturally while grindjng/questing.
And then every species has ONE specific ability if the creature has a higher level, like a breath attack for dragons, or other mythical creatures.
Facetanking is important btw, for later raid encounters or dungeons. A tank could just pull the boss all over the rokm, but that would make grouping and positioning pure hell. It is easy to talk about things like dodge tanking, if there are straight up stats that make you dodge.
yeah that's the thing really. I think they should make combat less stat based (parry, dodge, miss, hit etc
Agree that feeding the horse will just become boring fast. I do like how som mmo game have it so the horse dont vanish when you jump of it. It adds a litle to the game. Down the line mounts might be able to have armor, if we then will be able to color the armor, that would make for some awsome looking mounts.
I think your wrong. To be good in almost any game, the player needs to put down time and effort.
The world today have guids and information about everything. If a player fails today it will cost him nothing to do a litle bit of research to become better.
The prime example here is WoW classic. The reason it became popular in the first place was that you got in to a open world you had no idea about and it was hard. You as a player had to use you'r head to find a good build and to survive in the world, you made friends because the world was hard and a bad player in your group was better then no group. Then you learned by watching.
It was the same this time around, while I lvled my toon up to 60 I had been in many groups, some bad and some good. I cant remember 1 time anyone kicked another player for the reason of being bad. Those that didnt know what to do, simply asked if anyone else did.
Some of those players I played with for days and I could see the bad players becoming better and better.
I think it could be interesting for some class specs to be specific to races or genders for lore reasons (like a Kunoichi could only be female, as that makes sense). But in terms of the 8 base classes, I agree that they should not be race or gender locked at all.
Well, there will be race specific augments, but i dont like it, when a whole class is locked to one or two races.
Give me:
-Autowalk
-Outdoor open world pvp.
-Ways to farm and grind at the usual phase of tab target games.
- *I think most veterans will agree that sometimes you come from work and you don't feel like getting into super, intense fast paced combats. Sometimes you want to put some music in the background and chill while grinding.
-Battlegrounds.- *10vs10 is the perfect number, skirmishes are the highlights of MMOs.
-Arenas 2v2, 3v3, 5v5-Change daily quest to weekly quests.
- *Instead of forcing me to login every day for thirty minutes or I'll feel bad if I don't, give me the choice to do them all at once on weekends.
-Wide variety of things to do in the end game:- *Bgs, grinding materials, quests, dungeons, instances.
-Open world bosses-Five man dungeons.
Spare me:
-All across the world fast travel
--P2W
-Hectic and spammy combat system
-Ability to scan someone's stats or equipment (without permission?)
-LFG. Convenient, but it tends to take away the social part of the games.
- *LFG gives you, in a way, anonymity so you don't have to act as a decent human being to preserve your good name. LFG is similar to changing names. There is no consequences for toxicity and no social backlash.
-Empty cities.-Power creep
-Mobility creep. Specially with the action part of the system.
-Particle and spectacular effects scalation.
- *Sometimes MMOs look more like a Blade Runner city than a medieval setup. Particles should be used wisely. The over abundance of what I call "unnatural" colors takes the role playing away, and players start getting used to so many flashy colors in their screen that the only way to keep entertaining them is making bigger and more flashy things like a Michael Bay movie.
-Casino gear upgrade systems.-Holidays events.
-Bots.
-Homogenization.
Can we have something where veteran players offer knowledge and guidance for newbies? Maybe in exchange for temporary loyalty?
This sounds cool. Make actual exploration a thing.
I expected it with WoW given it’s the oldest survivor, but when I got to FFXIV and started playing, I legitimately though my game was bugged because there was no spoken dialogue after the initial cut scenes. It was so jarring and ruined any chance I could have had to be immersed in that world.
yes that is a major concern
I have played Warhammer and Warcraft based games since 90's, I am quite familiar with both franchises and their background stories. However, I have not seen refenrences between these two or seen any kind of connection. I would like to know where these copy paste comments are based on? Or are these more like opinions?
Many people are of the opinion, that the early starcraft concepts are based on warhammer.
Eldar = Protoss (highly evolved aliens, with way better technology and portals that let them bring troops directly on the battlefield, think they are better than others because they are an older race, and are pretty decadent)
Tyranid = Zerg (always hungry monstrous aliens, that have a hivemind and need someone to lead them, or they fall back to their base instincts, always on the hunt to consume other races)
Space Marines = Humans (use power armour, giant robots and vehicles, fight with massive oversized guns that are actually bolt-throwers)
I can't speak for the later years of warcraft but I can talk about the lore in the first years.
Both have greenskin hoards which have strong barbaric orks, smart and cunning goblins and trolls
Both have deamon hordes that want to controll the world
both have had undead invasion that almost killed everyone
The fight between Tirion Fordring and arthus is the same as the fight between nagash and Alcadizaar
Azhag the Slaughterer is Orgrim Doomhammer
Grimgor IronhideWurrzag is Thrall
Wurrzag is gul'dan
Karl franz is Anduin Wrynn
These are the ones of the top of my head. If you really look into the lore of both, you will see a lot of similarities. I'm not saying WoW is a Warhammer clone in this day and age but when it first came out it was a shock to see
If we think that first Warcraft: Orcs & Humans, which was published 1994, I guess all those similarities are not coincidence IF the game was supposted to base on Warhammer at first place. However, after the first game, Warcraft took more and more its own path with lore and gamedesigning. The genre, RTS, in other hand was started maybe by Dune 2 and Warhammer came a year later than Warcraft with Warhammer: Shadow of the Horned Rat in 1995. I also played Warcraft 2, Warhammer: Dark Omen and Warhammer Fantasy tabletop later that decade. Even the fantasy settings had similarities, they still felt different concept, and I guess, because the focus was in different things and goals. In addition, in these Warhammer games the focus were more in improving and gearing your units/army and Warcraft games focused more to base building. I never got the feeling I was playing same kind of games, and with later games and expansions these two concepts separated even more of each other.
I am not so much worry about orcs, demons, undeads and their wars/invasions. Those are so widely used in so many games and will be still used in the future. But it might be, that for example the idea of Horde in Warcraft may be from Warhammer (Greenskins) with some flavours, I do not know, just guessing. What it comes to those special characters, I do not have enough knowledge to say much, but you can be right, I do not doubt that.
If I summarize my thoughts shortly, I like both concepts, I have played a lot of games related for both, I can see the similarities especially from the beginning, but to me these two are very different concepts at the same time. And maybe Warcraft was not the only one who copied stuff, Warhammer most likely copied something related for gamedesigning and RTS.
All that I have heard and read so far is wonderful.
I do love how dark some of it is
General speaking (because I do not have knowledge of Steven's skills), working long time with lore and creating detailed world gives a really good base, but still it does not guarantee a great result. You still need creative writing skills and great storytellers to make those ideas alive. I have not seen much anything special and I am a little bit disapointed to all those generic races, simple class names and how all these can create a believable package. However, I kind of like, that we are going back to the Verra and settle again all those ruined lands. That gives nice possibilities if we think of landscapes and background stories. Anyhow, a lot of stuff is still coming so I am kind of hopeful anyway.
Generic races? Have you read any of the information of the races? That is just a teaser of what we will find out over time (and exploration).
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Races
Please remember that this game is not even in Alpha 1 yet. There is still a ways to go. I don't doubt that everyone will be happy with the lore based on what we have seen so far.
I am pretty sure Steven is a pretty good lore writer as he is a GM that has been going for years. You either write some great stuff, or you don't last that long (my GMing is the second one...). Not to mention the number of developers who have worked on lore for games.
It was good you remind me we are not in Alpha 1 yet, I had forgotten that already... *sigh*
The most used (and worst) argument in these forums for everything. *facepalm*
I do wish games would expand into other races or at least have their own unique races
Yeah that could be one option and will hopefully also happen with future expansions. Still it would be nice to have something less used or unique, and straight from the start, but I understand it may be too late to demand such a thing. I guess you had something like skaven or undead in your mind?
not many games let you play as undead but what I had in mind was races like naga or demons you know something you only see as npcs