Nope I disagree with the only thing you need to get the best gear being gold. I am a very big beliver in earning your gear. They could easily make it to where top level gear all needs 1 piece of soul bound mat to craft it on top of the other stuff so that you must actually do something anything to earn the ability to have the rest of the pieces added to it to craft it.
Not a bad idea honestly but with that comes the caveat of players dropping gear on death, circumventing the need of a soulbound crafting reagent through another method and disabling that specific piece of gear from being droppable defeats the purpose of the corruption system right?
I just don't see general gear progression from PvP being viable but I suppose time will tell.
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MarzzoMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Not true in a single way. I have not explained the system I have in mind. All im saying is that I want PvP gear progression in one form. Are you interested in me giving an example of how such a system could look?
Instead of pretending like you have a reasonable answer for this, to get gear from PvP progression in a world where gear is not soulbound and would diminish other gear and give you an infinite source of gold from selling on this gear then please do enlighten us.
Do you seriously think gold will have any real value in this game? Please, basic economic knowledge will give you infinite cash in an MMO. In every MMO I have ever played (rs3, wow, eso, ff) I always had enough gold to buy every single thing I wanted x10. Every serious PvE/PvP player will have millions and millions of gold.
Also, getting gear from PVP should be equaly as hard as getting gear from PVE
lets use your wow example...
1) There are so many gold farmers and people buying gold in wow its like a plague so clearly your experience there is not the standard
2) all the best stuff is BoP meaning you can't buy it with gold, if you could I can't even imagine how bad the farmers would be. (haven't been there in a few years things might have changed)
Naive, I see you lack experience in high end gameplay. Also, go back to the wikis, you missed something.
"All BiS are BoP" not true. In the wiki you can read that BiS gear will be a combination of traded gear and soulbound gear. But you can actually buy even soulbound gear from other players.
With gold, you can pay top guilds to boost you in content. For example, you pay them a sum of gold, they take you with them in a raid and give you all the loot you pay for.
With gold, you can buy a shitton of BiS gear from crafters in AoC. It is stated, that best in slot gear will be a combination of BoP and tradeable crafting/dungeon items.
I will simply buy all the tradable BiS, and pay people to boost me for the rest of the BiS.
With ingame currency (which good players will have a massive amount) you can literally buy your way to the best gear in the game.
This is not for me. I will have the best gear in the game anyways, since I do the hardest PvP and PvE content.
The systems I want, supports the players that love PvP and only have 1-2 hours 3-4 days a week of gameplay. These players cant play PvE. And they want to log in and do what they love. If PvP is what they love, and they cant participate in PvE (which always require mulitple 3+ hours sessions) they will have no way of competing gear wise.
Fair enough and realistically I respect the consideration, but even the developers have said to expect that players who have more time to dedicate into the game will have superior progression to others and that's the way of the game. I know for a fact there are going to be down periods where I won't be able to play the game as much and I will likely fall behind because I'll have Job obligations or obligations deriving from finishing up my Uni Degree and I'm comfortable with that.
As mundane as it might sound for the players you mentioned, there is always the opportunity to spend a couple of hours a week farming gold to upgrade their gear.
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MarzzoMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
This is not for me. I will have the best gear in the game anyways, since I do the hardest PvP and PvE content.
The systems I want, supports the players that love PvP and only have 1-2 hours 3-4 days a week of gameplay. These players cant play PvE. And they want to log in and do what they love. If PvP is what they love, and they cant participate in PvE (which always require mulitple 3+ hours sessions) they will have no way of competing gear wise.
Fair enough and realistically I respect the consideration, but even the developers have said to expect that players who have more time to dedicate into the game will have superior progression to others and that's the way of the game. I know for a fact there are going to be down periods where I won't be able to the game as much and I will likely fall behind because I'll have Job obligations or obligations deriving from finishing up my Uni Degree and I'm comfortable with that.
As mundane as it might sound for the players you mentioned, there is always the opportunity to spend a couple of hours a week farming gold to upgrade their gear.
Would it be so bad to offer a few gear piececes that are competitive to some degree from caravans, sieges, open world pvp, arenas etc. I mean, in combination with PvE and crafting.
What damage does it do? Everything you like about the game is still there. With the added benefit of offering a few rewarrds from PvP.
lol that's a terrible idea for this game.
There are plenty games out ther that offer gear via BGs for those that ONLY want to PvP. And like some1 else said with such wisdom, what you ask for is a boring MOBA simulation.
Getting PvP gear from BGs:
makes open world useless
diminishes roles of guilds and open world raiding, or raiding in instances
makes people stay in town all day, opening the BG window and playing in BGs
This is PvX, the aim of the game is not raiding or battlegrounds or ez mode rpg in the form of questing in a safe boring open world.
If you dont find meaningful PvP in the form of:
Castle siege to gain control of area
Node siege to RUIN an enemy populated zone
Guild war for guild rivalries
Possible PvP/PK due to random encounters with other players in the open world, not because of Horde vs Alliance, but simply because of HUMAN NATURE (can be friendsm can be bitter enemies).
and you think that battlegrounds is meaningful PvP, and not the above, then you are a lost cause.
I would rather play:
CS
LOL
DOTA
FN
PUBG
Overwatch
Mordehau
For Honor
if my solo aim was to win against other players, rather than prove that I am worthy to be part of a guild, can do my job in PvE, commit to farming mats for my gear after successfully socialising with other people, and prove my skill at PvP in a dangerous PvX environment, be it when I get ganged, or if I PK some and go all Rambo, trying to burn my corruption status with mobs.
And yes, I have played arenas in other mmorpgs. For the fame, not for progression
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bloodprophetMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Auction house will be limited to the Economic node and it's group. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Auction_house
Being able to get the best gear by buying because you have lots of gold, why would this be a problem?
If you went out and did the stuff to get the gold and found someone to make it for you I fail to see a concern.
Still not sure why arenas ( a side game) should offer gear?
Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
Half of what OP has said in this thread is downright nonsensical, as literally the only facet of PvP that does not result in rewards that can be turned into gear in some way shape or form is arenas, and then he turns around and tries to claim that he was not suggesting arenas provide gear drops.
I don't even really know what to say to you, tbh. Tried to alleviate your concerns with the fact that every single other avenue of PvP does in fact provide the rewards you seek in some way, but you went back to arenas, and then when someone pointed out how that would defeat the entire purpose of player interdependency and turn into a queue simulator ala WoW, you backtracked and said you weren't talking about arenas.
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MarzzoMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
When you literally bring down a kingdom of guilds... you get a title and maybe a cute cosmetic.
Not quite.
When you bring down a kingdom or node, you get a portion of the resources that were stored at that node. Same as when you kill a player, or sack a caravan.
You get the point. The example you quoted might happen 2-3 times in 6 months. It is not a reliable progressions path. It is actually not a progression path at all.
I think people underestimate the number of nodes that will be up at a time. There will be plenty of node pvp.
I guess we will just have to say goodbye to a couple of thousand players then
A casual PvP player that only has 1-2 hours a day a few days a week of gameplay will never be able to gear.
He wont be able to participate in larger battles that last more than 1 hour, which locks him up from raiding. He wont be able to participate in large guild wars, or sieges, that will take multiple hours a day to do.
By listening to me, you have everything to win. And ignoring this, you can only lose.
I love these "I HAVE SSSSSPOKEN!" Posts.
The game is set as PVX and should remain that way. They have set up that the crafters will build the best gear. Giving cosmetics seems the best answer for this type of game play. I don't think PVP even offers XP.
Currently, there is not a single possible way to obtain a single gear piece by doing PvP. That is not PvX. They have set up that crafting COMBINED with PvE will create the best gear. This is still not PvX.
Tell me, what is so hard for you when it comes to some people obtaining gear from PvE, crafting and PvP? What do we lose by offering some gear OPTIONALLY from PvP?
I don't honestly care how or where people get their gear. I just don't want to have PvP and PvE enchantments. I want them to get rid of the idea of PvP specific stats entirely. It doesn't add anything to gameplay to have a PvP stat and and a PvE stat, especially when it's a mostly open world PvX game. We're often going to be doing both PvP and PvE. Besides, it's entirely possible people will want different stat/enchantment combos for different scenarios anyway, so if the idea is to force people to grind multiple sets of gear, well Intrepid a lot of people are going to do that anyway.
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MarzzoMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Auction house will be limited to the Economic node and it's group. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Auction_house
Being able to get the best gear by buying because you have lots of gold, why would this be a problem?
If you went out and did the stuff to get the gold and found someone to make it for you I fail to see a concern.
Still not sure why arenas ( a side game) should offer gear?
Never said arenas should offer gear. I said PvP should offer one form of gear progression in combination with PvE/crafting.
How are you going to make gold?
Mobs don't drop gold.
So far I don't know many ways to make gold, maybe someone does.
There aren't any humanoids because we the players are the first to come to this world.
Also Steven has already said that selling certificates affects the overall price of what the Node pays for them > this I believe is in part to avoid farming bots, and also to force Caravans, where you can lose them.
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MarzzoMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
By listening to me, you have everything to win. And ignoring this, you can only lose.
I love these "I HAVE SSSSSPOKEN!" Posts.
The game is set as PVX and should remain that way. They have set up that the crafters will build the best gear. Giving cosmetics seems the best answer for this type of game play. I don't think PVP even offers XP.
Currently, there is not a single possible way to obtain a single gear piece by doing PvP. That is not PvX. They have set up that crafting COMBINED with PvE will create the best gear. This is still not PvX.
Tell me, what is so hard for you when it comes to some people obtaining gear from PvE, crafting and PvP? What do we lose by offering some gear OPTIONALLY from PvP?
I don't honestly care how or where people get their gear. I just don't want to have PvP and PvE enchantments. I want them to get rid of the idea of PvP specific stats entirely. It doesn't add anything to gameplay to have a PvP stat and and a PvE stat, especially when it's a mostly open world PvX game. We're often going to be doing both PvP and PvE. Besides, it's entirely possible people will want different stat/enchantment combos for different scenarios anyway, so if the idea is to force people to grind multiple sets of gear, well Intrepid a lot of people are going to do that anyway.
Oh I will break your dreams. PvP gearing is 100% based on PVP SPECIFIC enchantments and gems. That is the way we are going right now. Based on your PvP perfomance, you will get PVP enchamantmens and gems that give exclusive PvP BONUSES.
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bloodprophetMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Most gear is crafted. If you kill people in open world pvp they drop some raw mats. Killing caravans drops mats. Sieges drop mats.
Should mats also be dropped in arenas?
Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
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MarzzoMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
How are you going to make gold?
Mobs don't drop gold.
So far I don't know many ways to make gold, maybe someone does.
There aren't any humanoids because we the players are the first to come to this world.
Also Steven has already said that selling certificates affects the overall price of what the Node pays for them > this I believe is in part to avoid farming bots, and also to force Caravans, where you can lose them.
I make gold mainly by boosting people in PvP and PvE. I also play a lot, easily 6+ hours a day. During this time, I farm materials and gear that are in high demand and sell them. I read and predict patch notes (buffs and nerfs) and then start farming stuff that will increase in value after the patch.
For example, if "agility" gems and enchants are the meta, and I know it will get nerfed. I start buying 10k+ gems and enchants that give the next best stats and wait for the patch.
This system always works for any MMO. But only if you can predict patch notes.
If I fail to predict patch notes, my boosting is more than enough to give me unlimited gold
Oh I will break your dreams. PvP gearing is 100% based on PVP SPECIFIC enchantments and gems. That is the way we are going right now. Based on your PvP perfomance, you will get PVP enchamantmens and gems that give exclusive PvP BONUSES.
This is COMPLETELY FALSE.
In the video that was linked to you earlier, the VERY FIRST THING that steven says is that there is no pvp vs pve stats, they're all universal.
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MarzzoMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Oh I will break your dreams. PvP gearing is 100% based on PVP SPECIFIC enchantments and gems. That is the way we are going right now. Based on your PvP perfomance, you will get PVP enchamantmens and gems that give exclusive PvP BONUSES.
This is COMPLETELY FALSE.
In the video that was linked to you earlier, the VERY FIRST THING that steven says is that there is no pvp vs pve stats, they're all universal.
In the video, if you listen he says "There will be gems that offer pvp specific effects for a limited time"
Would it be so bad to offer a few gear piececes that are competitive to some degree from caravans, sieges, open world pvp, arenas etc. I mean, in combination with PvE and crafting.
What damage does it do? Everything you like about the game is still there. With the added benefit of offering a few rewarrds from PvP.
Actually I agree with there being a form of gear progression through sieges, caravans and open world PvP but specifically not from ranked arenas and not as direct progression.
If the systems go forth as they'd been talked about now, when you raid/assault a caravan being moved by a player, you get a % of the resources being carried and this is true for the resources put into building a node too. Ontop of this, killing players in the open world gives you some of their carried resources I believe and killed Corrupted players gives some of their gear. I think this form of progression where you steal resources to craft your own gear or to sell in order to buy gear are a much better way of providing PvP gear progression.
I would rather ranked arenas have rewards other than gear to incentivise participating in the other forms of PvP too.
Oh I will break your dreams. PvP gearing is 100% based on PVP SPECIFIC enchantments and gems. That is the way we are going right now. Based on your PvP perfomance, you will get PVP enchamantmens and gems that give exclusive PvP BONUSES.
This is COMPLETELY FALSE.
In the video that was linked to you earlier, the VERY FIRST THING that steven says is that there is no pvp vs pve stats, they're all universal.
In the video, if you listen he says "There will be gems that offer pvp specific effects for a limited time"
You're right on that one, there are minor pvp enchantments that offer specific pvp bonuses, specifically via guild or arena play, my bad.
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MarzzoMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Oh I will break your dreams. PvP gearing is 100% based on PVP SPECIFIC enchantments and gems. That is the way we are going right now. Based on your PvP perfomance, you will get PVP enchamantmens and gems that give exclusive PvP BONUSES.
This is COMPLETELY FALSE.
In the video that was linked to you earlier, the VERY FIRST THING that steven says is that there is no pvp vs pve stats, they're all universal.
In the video, if you listen he says "There will be gems that offer pvp specific effects for a limited time"
You're right on that one, there are minor pvp enchantments that offer specific pvp bonuses, specifically via guild or arena play, my bad.
We really don't know if these effects will be minor. If I can predict one such gem/enchant effect it would be something like this:
"When using X, apply Y amount of healing reduction"
But in the end, we can all simply wait and see what this all means.
Oh I will break your dreams. PvP gearing is 100% based on PVP SPECIFIC enchantments and gems. That is the way we are going right now. Based on your PvP perfomance, you will get PVP enchamantmens and gems that give exclusive PvP BONUSES.
This is COMPLETELY FALSE.
In the video that was linked to you earlier, the VERY FIRST THING that steven says is that there is no pvp vs pve stats, they're all universal.
In the video, if you listen he says "There will be gems that offer pvp specific effects for a limited time"
Yes they are effects that are good in PvP but there is no specific pvp stat so to speak. Like there isn't going to be a Versatility stat on the gems but there might be a gem that makes it easier to break cc's or one that helps you ignore the person's armor score (if armor is a player specific stat. i have no idea about this one).
"Mercenary guild (or insert your favourite name)
By defending sieges or attacking them, by fighting in guild wars, by participating in caravan battles, by participating in open world PvP you earn reputation/currency for the mercenary guild."
I really don't understand why you need an additional benefit for all of these things beyond the materials you already get from them that can be turned directly into crafted gear. Sieges, guild wars, caravan battles, and open world PvP all provide these things as it stands now.
Can you explain why you need an additional bit of progression?
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MarzzoMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Oh I will break your dreams. PvP gearing is 100% based on PVP SPECIFIC enchantments and gems. That is the way we are going right now. Based on your PvP perfomance, you will get PVP enchamantmens and gems that give exclusive PvP BONUSES.
This is COMPLETELY FALSE.
In the video that was linked to you earlier, the VERY FIRST THING that steven says is that there is no pvp vs pve stats, they're all universal.
In the video, if you listen he says "There will be gems that offer pvp specific effects for a limited time"
Yes they are effects that are good in PvP but there is no specific pvp stat so to speak. Like there isn't going to be a Versatility stat on the gems but there might be a gem that makes it easier to break cc's or one that helps you ignore the person's armor score (if armor is a player specific stat. i have no idea about this one).
I think (take this as a grain of salt) they will use these gems to balance PvP. For example, if something is broken in PvP, an enchant/gem might come in that helps even the playing field a bit.
Oh I will break your dreams. PvP gearing is 100% based on PVP SPECIFIC enchantments and gems. That is the way we are going right now. Based on your PvP perfomance, you will get PVP enchamantmens and gems that give exclusive PvP BONUSES.
This is COMPLETELY FALSE.
In the video that was linked to you earlier, the VERY FIRST THING that steven says is that there is no pvp vs pve stats, they're all universal.
In the video, if you listen he says "There will be gems that offer pvp specific effects for a limited time"
Yes they are effects that are good in PvP but there is no specific pvp stat so to speak. Like there isn't going to be a Versatility stat on the gems but there might be a gem that makes it easier to break cc's or one that helps you ignore the person's armor score (if armor is a player specific stat. i have no idea about this one).
I think (take this as a grain of salt) they will use these gems to balance PvP. For example, if something is broken in PvP, an enchant/gem might come in that helps even the playing field a bit.
Yes that's possible. Its really only speculation at this point in that regard though. Its definitely a lever they will have available to them to pull in an emergency but I think their design goal is to make thinks balanced in a way where that isn't necessary. Whether they can accomplish that has yet to be seen. Also, be aware that they are balancing everything in the game in terms of 8v8 teams so what might seem broken to certain classes in a 1v1 setting might be perfectly balance to intrepid in terms of team play and will not be changed.
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MarzzoMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
"Mercenary guild (or insert your favourite name)
By defending sieges or attacking them, by fighting in guild wars, by participating in caravan battles, by participating in open world PvP you earn reputation/currency for the mercenary guild."
I really don't understand why you need an additional benefit for all of these things beyond the materials you already get from them that can be turned directly into crafted gear. Sieges, guild wars, caravan battles, and open world PvP all provide these things as it stands now.
Can you explain why you need an additional bit of progression?
This system is not for me. As I said, I will have the best gear in the game anyways since I do hardcore PvP and PvE. This system is so people with limited time can progress too.
Because sieges and guild wars require such large time sinks to do effectivly that it won't be a reliable way to gear. And randomly killing people in the open world will impossibly be a reliable way to gear up.
The only reliable way for a PvP player to get resources is caravans. Especially if you have limited game time (good luck getting good scores in guild wars/sieges/caravans with less than 3+ hours a day)
The problem is that I don't think PvP activities will be as effective as PvE activities to get gear. I know, this is a bold predictions since we cant know. But I am willing to bet a shitload of money the fastest way to get gear will be by doing Pve.
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MarzzoMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Oh I will break your dreams. PvP gearing is 100% based on PVP SPECIFIC enchantments and gems. That is the way we are going right now. Based on your PvP perfomance, you will get PVP enchamantmens and gems that give exclusive PvP BONUSES.
This is COMPLETELY FALSE.
In the video that was linked to you earlier, the VERY FIRST THING that steven says is that there is no pvp vs pve stats, they're all universal.
In the video, if you listen he says "There will be gems that offer pvp specific effects for a limited time"
Yes they are effects that are good in PvP but there is no specific pvp stat so to speak. Like there isn't going to be a Versatility stat on the gems but there might be a gem that makes it easier to break cc's or one that helps you ignore the person's armor score (if armor is a player specific stat. i have no idea about this one).
I think (take this as a grain of salt) they will use these gems to balance PvP. For example, if something is broken in PvP, an enchant/gem might come in that helps even the playing field a bit.
Yes that's possible. Its really only speculation at this point in that regard though. Its definitely a lever they will have available to them to pull in an emergency but I think their design goal is to make thinks balanced in a way where that isn't necessary. Whether they can accomplish that has yet to be seen. Also, be aware that they are balancing everything in the game in terms of 8v8 teams so what might seem broken to certain classes in a 1v1 setting might be perfectly balance to intrepid in terms of team play and will not be changed.
Balancing around 8v8 is the same as balancing around AoE damage, spread damage/cleave damage. I hope, and I mean it, that when they say they will balance around 8v8, this is only for PvE content.
If PvP is balanced around 8v8 (Remember, 250v250 and guild wars+5v5 are the meta) it will be a mess.
Oh I will break your dreams. PvP gearing is 100% based on PVP SPECIFIC enchantments and gems. That is the way we are going right now. Based on your PvP perfomance, you will get PVP enchamantmens and gems that give exclusive PvP BONUSES.
This is COMPLETELY FALSE.
In the video that was linked to you earlier, the VERY FIRST THING that steven says is that there is no pvp vs pve stats, they're all universal.
In the video, if you listen he says "There will be gems that offer pvp specific effects for a limited time"
Yes they are effects that are good in PvP but there is no specific pvp stat so to speak. Like there isn't going to be a Versatility stat on the gems but there might be a gem that makes it easier to break cc's or one that helps you ignore the person's armor score (if armor is a player specific stat. i have no idea about this one).
I think (take this as a grain of salt) they will use these gems to balance PvP. For example, if something is broken in PvP, an enchant/gem might come in that helps even the playing field a bit.
Yes that's possible. Its really only speculation at this point in that regard though. Its definitely a lever they will have available to them to pull in an emergency but I think their design goal is to make thinks balanced in a way where that isn't necessary. Whether they can accomplish that has yet to be seen. Also, be aware that they are balancing everything in the game in terms of 8v8 teams so what might seem broken to certain classes in a 1v1 setting might be perfectly balance to intrepid in terms of team play and will not be changed.
Balancing around 8v8 is the same as balancing around AoE damage, spread damage/cleave damage. I hope, and I mean it, that when they say they will balance around 8v8, this is only for PvE content.
If PvP is balanced around 8v8 (Remember, 250v250 and guild wars+5v5 are the meta) it will be a mess.
250v250 is always a mess and thats half the fun. In all seriousness though, he has stated that, in terms of pvp it will be balanced in a way where it is optimal to have all archetypes present and that some classes will be hard counters to others in a 1v1 scenario. He did not speak on how they will balance it once it is scaled higher than an 8 person group so I can't really speak on that.
I hope, and I mean it, that when they say they will balance around 8v8, this is only for PvE content.
Pretty sure this isn't the case, they've only ever said they're specifically not balancing groups smaller than 8 and so on. There's definitely going to be broken class combos in PvP. Was thinking about this myself and if they were to balance PvP around this then they may aswell be balancing the whole game for groups smaller than 8 especially when there isn't any specific scaling or PvP/PvE specific stats in the game.
There is no reason, why open world PvP cant offer progression of some kind.
There is progression on offer.
The same progression as is on offer in PvE, in fact.
PvE itself doesn't offer gear. The only thing that gives players gear is crafting.
Materials for crafting come from harvesting (essentially more crafting), and from PvE kills. However, these materials change hands between players (in an unexpected manner, one could say) via PvP.
This is in both open world PvP, and caravan attacking. This is where PvP player rewards come from, and it stands to be more lucrative than someone that is only PvE'ing.
Keep in mind, if I kill the biggest baddest raid mob in the game, one that took my raid of 40 players dozens of hours to kill, if you come along and kill me while I have that in my inventory, there is a good chance that you could get that rare, hard fought raid dropped raw material.
To say that there are no rewards for open world PvP is to not look at what open world PvP offers.
There are no rewards for arena PvP, and this is how it should be.
Comments
Not a bad idea honestly but with that comes the caveat of players dropping gear on death, circumventing the need of a soulbound crafting reagent through another method and disabling that specific piece of gear from being droppable defeats the purpose of the corruption system right?
I just don't see general gear progression from PvP being viable but I suppose time will tell.
Naive, I see you lack experience in high end gameplay. Also, go back to the wikis, you missed something.
"All BiS are BoP" not true. In the wiki you can read that BiS gear will be a combination of traded gear and soulbound gear. But you can actually buy even soulbound gear from other players.
With gold, you can pay top guilds to boost you in content. For example, you pay them a sum of gold, they take you with them in a raid and give you all the loot you pay for.
With gold, you can buy a shitton of BiS gear from crafters in AoC. It is stated, that best in slot gear will be a combination of BoP and tradeable crafting/dungeon items.
I will simply buy all the tradable BiS, and pay people to boost me for the rest of the BiS.
With ingame currency (which good players will have a massive amount) you can literally buy your way to the best gear in the game.
Fair enough and realistically I respect the consideration, but even the developers have said to expect that players who have more time to dedicate into the game will have superior progression to others and that's the way of the game. I know for a fact there are going to be down periods where I won't be able to play the game as much and I will likely fall behind because I'll have Job obligations or obligations deriving from finishing up my Uni Degree and I'm comfortable with that.
As mundane as it might sound for the players you mentioned, there is always the opportunity to spend a couple of hours a week farming gold to upgrade their gear.
Would it be so bad to offer a few gear piececes that are competitive to some degree from caravans, sieges, open world pvp, arenas etc. I mean, in combination with PvE and crafting.
What damage does it do? Everything you like about the game is still there. With the added benefit of offering a few rewarrds from PvP.
There are plenty games out ther that offer gear via BGs for those that ONLY want to PvP. And like some1 else said with such wisdom, what you ask for is a boring MOBA simulation.
Getting PvP gear from BGs:
makes open world useless
diminishes roles of guilds and open world raiding, or raiding in instances
makes people stay in town all day, opening the BG window and playing in BGs
This is PvX, the aim of the game is not raiding or battlegrounds or ez mode rpg in the form of questing in a safe boring open world.
If you dont find meaningful PvP in the form of:
Castle siege to gain control of area
Node siege to RUIN an enemy populated zone
Guild war for guild rivalries
Possible PvP/PK due to random encounters with other players in the open world, not because of Horde vs Alliance, but simply because of HUMAN NATURE (can be friendsm can be bitter enemies).
and you think that battlegrounds is meaningful PvP, and not the above, then you are a lost cause.
CS
LOL
DOTA
FN
PUBG
Overwatch
Mordehau
For Honor
if my solo aim was to win against other players, rather than prove that I am worthy to be part of a guild, can do my job in PvE, commit to farming mats for my gear after successfully socialising with other people, and prove my skill at PvP in a dangerous PvX environment, be it when I get ganged, or if I PK some and go all Rambo, trying to burn my corruption status with mobs.
And yes, I have played arenas in other mmorpgs. For the fame, not for progression
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Auction_house
Being able to get the best gear by buying because you have lots of gold, why would this be a problem?
If you went out and did the stuff to get the gold and found someone to make it for you I fail to see a concern.
Still not sure why arenas ( a side game) should offer gear?
I don't even really know what to say to you, tbh. Tried to alleviate your concerns with the fact that every single other avenue of PvP does in fact provide the rewards you seek in some way, but you went back to arenas, and then when someone pointed out how that would defeat the entire purpose of player interdependency and turn into a queue simulator ala WoW, you backtracked and said you weren't talking about arenas.
I guess we will just have to say goodbye to a couple of thousand players then
A casual PvP player that only has 1-2 hours a day a few days a week of gameplay will never be able to gear.
He wont be able to participate in larger battles that last more than 1 hour, which locks him up from raiding. He wont be able to participate in large guild wars, or sieges, that will take multiple hours a day to do.
He will simply stick to wow
I don't honestly care how or where people get their gear. I just don't want to have PvP and PvE enchantments. I want them to get rid of the idea of PvP specific stats entirely. It doesn't add anything to gameplay to have a PvP stat and and a PvE stat, especially when it's a mostly open world PvX game. We're often going to be doing both PvP and PvE. Besides, it's entirely possible people will want different stat/enchantment combos for different scenarios anyway, so if the idea is to force people to grind multiple sets of gear, well Intrepid a lot of people are going to do that anyway.
Never said arenas should offer gear. I said PvP should offer one form of gear progression in combination with PvE/crafting.
Mobs don't drop gold.
So far I don't know many ways to make gold, maybe someone does.
There aren't any humanoids because we the players are the first to come to this world.
Also Steven has already said that selling certificates affects the overall price of what the Node pays for them > this I believe is in part to avoid farming bots, and also to force Caravans, where you can lose them.
Oh I will break your dreams. PvP gearing is 100% based on PVP SPECIFIC enchantments and gems. That is the way we are going right now. Based on your PvP perfomance, you will get PVP enchamantmens and gems that give exclusive PvP BONUSES.
Should mats also be dropped in arenas?
I make gold mainly by boosting people in PvP and PvE. I also play a lot, easily 6+ hours a day. During this time, I farm materials and gear that are in high demand and sell them. I read and predict patch notes (buffs and nerfs) and then start farming stuff that will increase in value after the patch.
For example, if "agility" gems and enchants are the meta, and I know it will get nerfed. I start buying 10k+ gems and enchants that give the next best stats and wait for the patch.
This system always works for any MMO. But only if you can predict patch notes.
If I fail to predict patch notes, my boosting is more than enough to give me unlimited gold
This is COMPLETELY FALSE.
In the video that was linked to you earlier, the VERY FIRST THING that steven says is that there is no pvp vs pve stats, they're all universal.
In the video, if you listen he says "There will be gems that offer pvp specific effects for a limited time"
Actually I agree with there being a form of gear progression through sieges, caravans and open world PvP but specifically not from ranked arenas and not as direct progression.
If the systems go forth as they'd been talked about now, when you raid/assault a caravan being moved by a player, you get a % of the resources being carried and this is true for the resources put into building a node too. Ontop of this, killing players in the open world gives you some of their carried resources I believe and killed Corrupted players gives some of their gear. I think this form of progression where you steal resources to craft your own gear or to sell in order to buy gear are a much better way of providing PvP gear progression.
I would rather ranked arenas have rewards other than gear to incentivise participating in the other forms of PvP too.
You're right on that one, there are minor pvp enchantments that offer specific pvp bonuses, specifically via guild or arena play, my bad.
We really don't know if these effects will be minor. If I can predict one such gem/enchant effect it would be something like this:
"When using X, apply Y amount of healing reduction"
But in the end, we can all simply wait and see what this all means.
Yes they are effects that are good in PvP but there is no specific pvp stat so to speak. Like there isn't going to be a Versatility stat on the gems but there might be a gem that makes it easier to break cc's or one that helps you ignore the person's armor score (if armor is a player specific stat. i have no idea about this one).
By defending sieges or attacking them, by fighting in guild wars, by participating in caravan battles, by participating in open world PvP you earn reputation/currency for the mercenary guild."
I really don't understand why you need an additional benefit for all of these things beyond the materials you already get from them that can be turned directly into crafted gear. Sieges, guild wars, caravan battles, and open world PvP all provide these things as it stands now.
Can you explain why you need an additional bit of progression?
I think (take this as a grain of salt) they will use these gems to balance PvP. For example, if something is broken in PvP, an enchant/gem might come in that helps even the playing field a bit.
This PvE PvP gear is something that makes sense in WoW.. I just don't see how it translates to AoC at all.
You're not going to be able to grind instanced pvp events and get teleported back and forth from 'matches' to gear up, either in pve or in pvp.
Yes that's possible. Its really only speculation at this point in that regard though. Its definitely a lever they will have available to them to pull in an emergency but I think their design goal is to make thinks balanced in a way where that isn't necessary. Whether they can accomplish that has yet to be seen. Also, be aware that they are balancing everything in the game in terms of 8v8 teams so what might seem broken to certain classes in a 1v1 setting might be perfectly balance to intrepid in terms of team play and will not be changed.
This system is not for me. As I said, I will have the best gear in the game anyways since I do hardcore PvP and PvE. This system is so people with limited time can progress too.
Because sieges and guild wars require such large time sinks to do effectivly that it won't be a reliable way to gear. And randomly killing people in the open world will impossibly be a reliable way to gear up.
The only reliable way for a PvP player to get resources is caravans. Especially if you have limited game time (good luck getting good scores in guild wars/sieges/caravans with less than 3+ hours a day)
The problem is that I don't think PvP activities will be as effective as PvE activities to get gear. I know, this is a bold predictions since we cant know. But I am willing to bet a shitload of money the fastest way to get gear will be by doing Pve.
Balancing around 8v8 is the same as balancing around AoE damage, spread damage/cleave damage. I hope, and I mean it, that when they say they will balance around 8v8, this is only for PvE content.
If PvP is balanced around 8v8 (Remember, 250v250 and guild wars+5v5 are the meta) it will be a mess.
250v250 is always a mess and thats half the fun.
Pretty sure this isn't the case, they've only ever said they're specifically not balancing groups smaller than 8 and so on. There's definitely going to be broken class combos in PvP. Was thinking about this myself and if they were to balance PvP around this then they may aswell be balancing the whole game for groups smaller than 8 especially when there isn't any specific scaling or PvP/PvE specific stats in the game.
The same progression as is on offer in PvE, in fact.
PvE itself doesn't offer gear. The only thing that gives players gear is crafting.
Materials for crafting come from harvesting (essentially more crafting), and from PvE kills. However, these materials change hands between players (in an unexpected manner, one could say) via PvP.
This is in both open world PvP, and caravan attacking. This is where PvP player rewards come from, and it stands to be more lucrative than someone that is only PvE'ing.
Keep in mind, if I kill the biggest baddest raid mob in the game, one that took my raid of 40 players dozens of hours to kill, if you come along and kill me while I have that in my inventory, there is a good chance that you could get that rare, hard fought raid dropped raw material.
To say that there are no rewards for open world PvP is to not look at what open world PvP offers.
There are no rewards for arena PvP, and this is how it should be.