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Option of changing primary class
Arya
Member
So, my understanding with the limited information (and admittedly limited looking into it I've done) is that your Main Class is fixed, and you can only change your secondary class which augments your main class.
I personally, kind of dislike this. I would like to see a way, even if time consuming and/or costly (for ingame resources) of changing that.
If I were to pick, hypothetically, Fighter, and found after spending time levelling, making friends, etc, that it's not working out no matter the secondary I chose, for some reason, be it playstyles not feeling right, it not suiting me, some changes to the class via patches or I simply struggle due to any ping issues, I would not want to lose anything I spent money on, or my name, or anything, while wanting to try something different.
I understand that they kind of want your decision to have consequences, however I am most likely not alone in wanting to have nearly everything I do in an MMO tied to 1 name, 1 character. I also understand not wanting a system where you can change class at a whim, such as FF14, Archeage or PSO2, as those games can result in people swapping back and forth on a daily basis, or even more often, depending on what task they wish to accomplish, and can result in metas where people expect you to be able to play a class you're not at all. That's why I mentioned this being a time intensive, or costly endeavour.
Perhaps a questline which takes multiple hours, or doing tedious tasks (For example a mindnumbing "Kill 1000 of X enemy") in order to change your primary class. It would help there be a bit of a compromise between these. Because, to be honest, were I to pick Fighter, and then some patch changes tweaked the balance and I no longer enjoyed it no matter my subclass, I'd be more likely to quit than spend time investing in a whole new character. I invest in 1 character, not multiple. Always have done, always will. I am probably not alone in that feeling.
All that said, maybe there's differing perspectives, maybe there's things I haven't considered about going such a route, so I'd be interested to know what people thought of it, and maybe even have it be considered by Intrepid
I personally, kind of dislike this. I would like to see a way, even if time consuming and/or costly (for ingame resources) of changing that.
If I were to pick, hypothetically, Fighter, and found after spending time levelling, making friends, etc, that it's not working out no matter the secondary I chose, for some reason, be it playstyles not feeling right, it not suiting me, some changes to the class via patches or I simply struggle due to any ping issues, I would not want to lose anything I spent money on, or my name, or anything, while wanting to try something different.
I understand that they kind of want your decision to have consequences, however I am most likely not alone in wanting to have nearly everything I do in an MMO tied to 1 name, 1 character. I also understand not wanting a system where you can change class at a whim, such as FF14, Archeage or PSO2, as those games can result in people swapping back and forth on a daily basis, or even more often, depending on what task they wish to accomplish, and can result in metas where people expect you to be able to play a class you're not at all. That's why I mentioned this being a time intensive, or costly endeavour.
Perhaps a questline which takes multiple hours, or doing tedious tasks (For example a mindnumbing "Kill 1000 of X enemy") in order to change your primary class. It would help there be a bit of a compromise between these. Because, to be honest, were I to pick Fighter, and then some patch changes tweaked the balance and I no longer enjoyed it no matter my subclass, I'd be more likely to quit than spend time investing in a whole new character. I invest in 1 character, not multiple. Always have done, always will. I am probably not alone in that feeling.
All that said, maybe there's differing perspectives, maybe there's things I haven't considered about going such a route, so I'd be interested to know what people thought of it, and maybe even have it be considered by Intrepid
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Comments
As for changing your main the only way I would support changing your main would be if it stuck all your stuff in a special vault and reset you back to level 1 and once you reached your old level you got your stuff back.
Also, if you can swap your primary class there is less need for cooperation with other players as you can swap your class based on the situation at hand.
Your primary archetype should be something you choose regardless of the meta. It should be an archetype that represents you and your playstyle, better than the others. It shouldn't be something that you can change at all.
There will be a ton of info on classes by launch time, on the wiki, on Youtube and on Twitch, and you can read up on the classes that interest you to make sure that you make the right decision when you start off.
If people can change their primaries constantly, that would be bad from multiple points of view.
Firstly, if you hit max level with a class, you will have a good feel of that class' combat. However, if you change your primary archetype all of a sudden, now you're bombarded with a ton of info that should have been processed by you over the course of your leveling experience. Its the same thing with having max level boosts in WoW. Since combat is going to be far more skill dependent in AoC than in WoW, this is going to leave you extremely under skilled for the content that you're going to experience at your level.
Secondly, it takes away from the concept of someone having a unique identity, as everyone will be able to constantly change their classes completely by changing their primary archetypes.
I can understand the frustration of having to create a second char because you don't like the way your archetype operates or if you're not having fun with it but it would be bad from a RP point of view.
https://discord.gg/gFuVBPdBRa
this makes sense to me
1 thing that is very important (to me) is knowing your main through play.
You can clearly see who plays their character well when competing against them versus those whom may have the same gear and level as you but don't know what they're doing.
Some people claimed secondary archetypes won't matter but it is looking likely such an assessment is false.
You might not be able to change your primary archetype, but, you will have access to 8 secondary archetypes, each combination offering a uniquer experience. You may initially not love the primary archetype you choose but a secondary archetype addition could change your opinion dramatically. Each primary archetype will offer 8 overall archetypes, rather than being limited to the primary archetype. I can appreciate the scope and don't mind we can't change the primary archetype.
Edit: So you could level all 8 Primary Archetypes as Alts and effectively have access to all 64 'Classes'. I do not see why this is limiting. It would be far worse if we could only make say 10 alts and experience 10 'classes' at a time instead of 64 'classes'.
Your fix for the issue I presented ignores the issue I presented..
Yes I completely agree, however this is why I suggested a way of making it a pain in the ass to change your primary. The 3 games I listed all have no class identity, and you can (and in some, do) swap between classes depending on what activity you're doing. What I am suggesting is more of an ability to reroll, even if that takes time to achieve. It taking time to achieve would completely invalidate I can agree completely with not making it a "click 2 buttons" reroll of your primary, I understand such a decision completely. But having no way at all to change your primary would mean that to do that, I'd need to play an alt character, or account. And... in that event I'd more likely just stop playing. My name in MMOs is something important to me. In Archeage I've had the option of getting highly geared accounts, and I turned them down, and would rather invest time in rerolling MY account, as that's important to me.
I also believe by making it time intensive to change your primary, it would also invalidate to a degree.
It should be something you choose in spite of the meta, but lets say one patch, for some reason, Fighter were to be utterly gutted to a shadow of it's former self. A lot of Fighter players would be incredibly dissatisfied, and those players would have a few options.
1) Push on in spite of it, playing a class you now heavily dislike
2) Make a new character, with a new name, and potentially losing a lot of things in the process
3) Quit
I know personally I'd be more likely to take option 3 than the other 2.
There was a lot of information out on classes in Archeage before I started, hell I'd even played it before, and yet I still haven't made a decision, and I also know DOZENS of people who rerolled and refarmed up gear to change their primary class. Some were Tanks rerolling to Melee DPS, some were Ranged DPS rerolling to tanks, etc etc. Fully rerolling took at best a few weeks to get the gear to achieve it, and was kinda gold intensive to change your classes goal (which I believe is what the Primary is meant to be), but people regularly swap around their class, for example, Malediction and Sorcery are both Mage DPS trees, and people can and do freely swap between them. I can COMPLETELY understand wanting to curtail that behaviour specifically, but I find the argument less compelling when we're considering things like spending 2-3 weeks rerolling your class entirely.
I'd also be fine with a lockout from doing it again within X timeframe, maybe only once every 3 months. I'm not trying to suggest a way of people swapping around their class on a whim, merely a way that they CAN change it every now and then
Is probably the best argument I've seen for it as of yet. To counteract this point, perhaps have each primary have a level, somewhat like FF14, (however unlike FF14 when you change your primary, your old primary gets set to level 0 again) and the questline to reroll has you level up that class from 0, teaching you all those lessons while also allowing you to reroll. Potentially even have you carry over some knowledge from your old class.
Lets say you used to play Fighter, so you know how a fighter plays, but now you have swapped to a Rogue. This would provide you a little bit of unique insight into what to expect from a Fighter opponent in a 1v1 for example
Your edit also ignores the point I mentioned about wanting to only play 1 character. I don't want to freely swap primaries on a whim, I don't want to have to play on a new character to change my primary, however I would like the option to, at some point, be ABLE to change my primary, even if again, it's an absolute bitch to do, and feels like a huge timesink
So, you have nothing against someone having 8 characters to play the flavour of the month class with minimal effort, but do not believe a user should be allowed to change their 1 characters class even if that change is time consuming and/or expensive and/or has a time lockout from changing again?
People didn't choose their Archeage class blindly either, and yet many people have rerolled their class
Minimal effort have you see how long it takes to level lol.
45 days of levelling time is an effort so minimal it basically qualifies as a respec. So I guess the issue is solved for those who want the ability to swap?
Glad we reached a resolution. Personally, I quite like being only one primary class, and am more than content with being able to redo my secondary and augments without a herculean amount of effort.
Give an inch though, and many will try to take a mile.
I dont want primary class change either but to level all 8 classes for "fotm" isnt minimal effort for many people with limited play time.
How they have it planned out now is very good imo. Effort to change the secondary class with effort to find your perfect playstyle.
FF14 allows classes to be changed on the fly, but, FF14 is mostly a PvE Title. Ashes is based on Risk/Reward. It is a risk when you choose your main archetype. You are correct, people do re-roll to make other toons more aligned with the moment. Ashes does not prevent re-rolls. I do not see what the issue is here? There would be no risk/reward if you can change whatever on the fly...literally. Nothing would matter at all. MMOs are an investment, MMOs often last years. In my mind, limiting yourself to one character is lunacy. I don't want to stop people rolling a single character, but, to then say its unfair because one only has the one character is madness.
Calling them 64 classes is a bit misleading considering how the class system works, but that's just my opinion.
It is not a case of Trolling about making Alts, I plan to play Ashes for as long as I can. WoW has lasted 16 Years. If Ashes lasts 16 Years to get 8 alts, you'd have to make an Alt every 2 years. Yet, we know so little about anything except the levelling times, that it is silly of me to suggest Ashes will last 16 years (Nothing is clear enough at present).
We also no nothing about leveling time when the alt is being feed gear and has max level guildies helping it.
I know I leveled up a warrior in near record time by setting my druid to follow without being in the group so it didn't steal xp and occasionally healing the warrior. Made for an immortal DPS warrior while leveling lol
If you want the DDO true rez option without the stat buff just make your alt delete you main and pretend RP that is what happened
The idea that you should be able to reroll your primary archetype just because it isn't meta at that time, is a flawed one. Your interest in your class shouldn't be based on whether the class is meta or not, rather on whether the class fits your playstyle and your identity or not. Just because a certain class is weak in a particular meta, doesn't mean that you should be able to reroll from that class to another.
If the game is at a point where one class is unplayable, I'm sure that the devs will fix it quickly as this is a subscription based game, meaning that they rely on players playing their game continuously in order to make revenue. Also, unlike in WoW and in FF14, there are no expansion costs, which means that they cannot have good and bad expansions like in WoW. If they did, they would lose out on a ton of revenue. They have to listen to their community and balance stuff that need to be balanced as quickly as possible so that people dont cancel their subscriptions.
If you're willing to change your primary archetype just because it isn't meta at a point of time, then that archetype you chose isn't the right choice. I enjoy the fighter primary archetype the best, and even if fighters are going to suck, i'll stick to playing them because they represent me. Sure, if they are THAT weak in a meta, i might start over on an alt or something.
Also if they allow people to change their primary archetype, then you will have meta slaves. People that swap their classes, back and forth, depending on the meta. This is just an unhealthy thing to have in an MMORPG, as it just goes against the RPG element of MMOs.
I want to know who the most respected and knowledgeable members of my class are within the community so that I know who to approach when I have a question, or to emulate to learn and improve my class. Being able to look at someone and say, "That guy/girl is one of the best class on the server. What can I learn from him/her to bring my own play to the next level?".
Now, you could argue that that might still be doable even with primary respecs as a possibility, but there's also the matter of history to consider. If that person's name has been floating around for a while, I can be reasonably certain that they've experienced a wide range of content in that archetype, and that they've weathered the ups and downs that come with balance changes and patches, and have developed a well-reasoned and time tested strategy for their own growth.
If people swap primary archetypes every patch, there's a depth of knowledge that gets sacrificed as a result. Instead of learning to work within the constraints of a class, the community simply shifts towards whatever is perceived as more efficient, and that sense of identity that is a key component of a Role Playing Game is eroded and undermined as a consequence.
We do NOT know how trading between alts is going to work in this game, or if it will even be allowed in the first place.
Besides, different classes can use different types of gear. Some will be better with certain types of gear, while others will be better with others. So even if you do decide to transfer gear from your main to your alt, its extremely likely that that gear wont be optimal for your alt.
Yes there are 64 classes, but effectively speaking, only 8 completely different play styles exist. These are your 8 primary archetypes. Your secondary archetypes only blur the line between 2 of these 8 unique different playstyles.
So, since your secondary can be changed with some effort, you're effectively playing 8 classes in a single character.
This means that ALL you have to do is figure out your right primary archetype, which shouldn't be a hard thing to do if you've ever played an MMO before.