I just don't see how being unable to enter in main nodes while corrupted isn't punishment enough.
Because not being able to enter main nodes doesn't stop someone from eternally griefing someone else until bounty hunters or friends come around. You can still stand around at the key location someone has for their current progression or quest and continuously stop them from that progression. That is what the depowering is meant to stop.
Steven specifically said he doesn't want to stop players from having the agency to get frustrated with a player and kill them for the fun of it or just for the feeling of revenge. But he also doesn't want griefing or allowing for someone to sit on a spot and just kill people that don't want to PvP.
Take a better look at the corruption system. There are already so many things in place against corrupted players.
The wider the level disparity between the players, the more corruption will be gained.
If a non-combatant attacks a corrupt player, the non-combatant will not flag as a combatant.
A corrupt player’s location is revealed to bounty hunters on their world map.
Corruption penalties occur as the corruption is gained. The higher the corruption score:
The more skill and stat dampening applies (lower health and mana, lower gear proficiency), until the corrupt player ultimately becomes ineffective at combat. This dampening only affects PvP combat.
The higher chance of dropping of carried raw materials and gear (Weapons and Armor) when the corrupted player dies.
A player’s corruption score increases with each non-combatant player killed.
Add to the above, the higher the score, the more items you drop on death. And remove the dampening, and we're set.
Thanks for all the great conversation so far everyone! I'm really enjoying the replies and would like to remind you that I agree it should be a punishment for harassing players, but that the system could also be abused by some of the methods I mentioned earlier. Things like going around with a low-level player in your group or at your side to prevent or make it harder for people to fight you could also be an example of how it may backfire.
I will keep reading these replies, but so far I love the direction fo the conversation
I am assuming that your abilities can not hit a player until you have them selected as a target at least once. If this is the case then keeping a low level player around won't really risk anything. Also, if you just don't want to PvP, that's what corruption is already for anyways. If someone wants to kill you regardless of the corruption, they are gonna kill you.
I mean if you're flagged and throw an aoe you'll hit the low level.
2nd point is also true. If people want you dead, you're dead.
Being flagged for combat does not mean you automatically hit non-combatants. It’s an option you have to enable if you wish to hit greens without direct targeting. There’s no risk of hitting a green on accident if you don’t have the auto Force Attack enabled.
Wait, why even have an option to attack green players if they will flag you for corruption? Is this designed to give players an option to BECOME corrupted by choice, even though it's supposed to be an anti-griefing mechanic?
Corruption is too harsh. Having your name in red and everybody hating you and not trusting you for a long time is ENOUGH, we have to believe in the players and the community.
Im not even a pvp player, but we have to allow the freedom for people to control society and not force it, no one will ever want to be a bad guy, its too harsh.
I dont care if I get camped a couple times, thats how the game works, dont make it fair for sensitive players who are gonna be harvesting flowers for 400h.
I just don't see how being unable to enter in main nodes while corrupted isn't punishment enough.
Because not being able to enter main nodes doesn't stop someone from eternally griefing someone else until bounty hunters or friends come around. You can still stand around at the key location someone has for their current progression or quest and continuously stop them from that progression. That is what the depowering is meant to stop.
Steven specifically said he doesn't want to stop players from having the agency to get frustrated with a player and kill them for the fun of it or just for the feeling of revenge. But he also doesn't want griefing or allowing for someone to sit on a spot and just kill people that don't want to PvP.
Take a better look at the corruption system. There are already so many things in place against corrupted players.
The wider the level disparity between the players, the more corruption will be gained.
If a non-combatant attacks a corrupt player, the non-combatant will not flag as a combatant.
A corrupt player’s location is revealed to bounty hunters on their world map.
Corruption penalties occur as the corruption is gained. The higher the corruption score:
The more skill and stat dampening applies (lower health and mana, lower gear proficiency), until the corrupt player ultimately becomes ineffective at combat. This dampening only affects PvP combat.
The higher chance of dropping of carried raw materials and gear (Weapons and Armor) when the corrupted player dies.
A player’s corruption score increases with each non-combatant player killed.
Add to the above, the higher the score, the more items you drop on death. And remove the dampening, and we're set.
None of those things stop long periods of griefing except for the dampening though. That's why it is there.
If you want to play around corruption you need to strike a balance of gaining and then clearing it. That's the intended way. If someone could play through the whole game while staying corrupt the whole time it would invite entirely corrupt guilds and lawless killing of players that just don't enjoy PvP.
The game already has tons of PvP options in the game. They want to allow PvE players to enjoy as well. The compromise is a very punishing system for PvPers that want to destroy the fun of those that don't want to PvP.
I just don't see how being unable to enter in main nodes while corrupted isn't punishment enough.
Because not being able to enter main nodes doesn't stop someone from eternally griefing someone else until bounty hunters or friends come around. You can still stand around at the key location someone has for their current progression or quest and continuously stop them from that progression. That is what the depowering is meant to stop.
Steven specifically said he doesn't want to stop players from having the agency to get frustrated with a player and kill them for the fun of it or just for the feeling of revenge. But he also doesn't want griefing or allowing for someone to sit on a spot and just kill people that don't want to PvP.
Take a better look at the corruption system. There are already so many things in place against corrupted players.
The wider the level disparity between the players, the more corruption will be gained.
If a non-combatant attacks a corrupt player, the non-combatant will not flag as a combatant.
A corrupt player’s location is revealed to bounty hunters on their world map.
Corruption penalties occur as the corruption is gained. The higher the corruption score:
The more skill and stat dampening applies (lower health and mana, lower gear proficiency), until the corrupt player ultimately becomes ineffective at combat. This dampening only affects PvP combat.
The higher chance of dropping of carried raw materials and gear (Weapons and Armor) when the corrupted player dies.
A player’s corruption score increases with each non-combatant player killed.
Add to the above, the higher the score, the more items you drop on death. And remove the dampening, and we're set.
No. The dampening is necessary. I’d sooner see the gear loss removed than the combat power since it’s combat power that lets griefers continue ruining the experience of other players.
And once again since apparently people refuse to check, you will not be at real risk of losing gear after one PK. Only if you continuously engage with discouraged PvP will you be at risk of losing gear.
1.) Dampening sounds like ass, idc how strong or weak someone is or how evil or good they are, having the game lower your stats or w/e it'll be sounds like you're being penalized BEYOND the corruption system just because you killed some people. Just by the sounds of it I would want dampening to be thrown out no questions asked.
2.) Removing unit collision would solve that problem easily, and not to mention it could only hinder some aspects of the game later on down the road, for example a huge raid pushing through some narrow passages, it could slow down the raid and make it too easy for the opposition to aoe it unless intrepid accounted for this and wants it. But with this current topic there's no doubt in my mind people might try this to grief or troll or even hinder other players' progress in the early stages as there are always groups of people who try to no life to max level and race ahead of others so they can take control more easily. I think having a threshold that you have to fall below before your character is officially considered corrupted would help stave off some of the more "wtf" moments where you kill someone or it was a split second thing and another player got caught up in your attack and instantly died. What do you do if someone removes their gear and it's not noticeable enough and you 1 shot them and go corrupted?
3.) losing corruption by dying will definitely be abused by friends and guildies unless guildies can never attack each other regardless of the circumstance, I don't see a way to prevent this without removing the fact that dying clears up corruption.
4.) It only makes sense that flagging and CCing someone even if it doesn't do damage should flag you as a combatant, this gives the other person the freedom of choice between do nothing or start fighting. Healing works normally, but if you heal a combatant or a corrupted player, it is only fair that you become a combatant as well but should definitely not give you corruption points right off the bat, this gives the opposition the fair play of attacking the supports, which is sometimes targeted first in a fight. If it did not then supports would have all the time in the world to heal and buff combatants or other corrupted players without putting themselves at risk of being attacked, but it shouldn't give you corruption points, I believe becoming corrupted should stem directly from killing others. That is definitely up for debate though because a healer could definitely support a corrupted player primarily if they choose with no chance of becoming corrupted themselves.
What about the issue that plagued BDO with karmabombing once they removed xp loss from owpvp, people didnt care about dying, the loser lost nothing, while the victor lost karma, if they continued losing karma they went red and would then be penalized themselves. There's no rule that says a player HAS to fight back, what do you do if someone is taking super rare resources right in front of you but they dont even pvp or pve and theyre a lifeskiller character, they wont fight back. What do you do if the fights super one sided and the loser decides theres no point in fighting back a second time and now the stronger player is either forced to become corrupted or have their farming location interrupted or resources taken right in front of their eyes. There's lots of ways to get stronger in MMOs while avoiding conflict with players, but if someone puts themselves in a situation where they could potentially get killed by another player, especially if there's a large incentive to be attacked I.E you're taking rare resources or at a popular grinding area, there's nothing stopping someone from dying without fighting back and just returning right to what they were doing unless they don't want to lose the materials they've gathered, but even then you don't lose all of them which I do agree with. And don't give me that "learn to share" crap that people spouted on BDO.
1.) Dampening sounds like ass, idc how strong or weak someone is or how evil or good they are, having the game lower your stats or w/e it'll be sounds like you're being penalized BEYOND the corruption system just because you killed some people. Just by the sounds of it I would want dampening to be thrown out no questions asked.
The stat damp is the corruption system. It is REQUIRED for corruption to function as a proper deterrent to unwanted behavior
No. The dampening is necessary. I’d sooner see the gear loss removed than the combat power since it’s combat power that lets griefers continue ruining the experience of other players.
And once again since apparently people refuse to check, you will not be at real risk of losing gear after one PK. Only if you continuously engage with discouraged PvP will you be at risk of losing gear.
The dampening is NOT necessary at all, when you are corrupted no one is gonna trust you and you basically are locked out of the huge social structure of the game. Then every high lvl player is gonna camp you to death and you will not even play the game. The playerbase is gonna reject you till you clean your name, and its gonna be hard.
But what is the logic of dampening your character if 5 max lvl dudes are gonna oneshot you again and again just to gain "honor points". It makes no sense and it gives you no way to defend yourself.
Yes maybe sometimes a very high lvl guy is gonna start a massacre of innocent people, but everybody is gonna notice and the good guys are gonna come and destroy him, and thats a memorable thing in games. Let the game be please.
No. The dampening is necessary. I’d sooner see the gear loss removed than the combat power since it’s combat power that lets griefers continue ruining the experience of other players.
And once again since apparently people refuse to check, you will not be at real risk of losing gear after one PK. Only if you continuously engage with discouraged PvP will you be at risk of losing gear.
The dampening is NOT necessary at all, when you are corrupted no one is gonna trust you and you basically are locked out of the huge social structure of the game. Then every high lvl player is gonna camp you to death and you will not even play the game. The playerbase is gonna reject you till you clean your name, and its gonna be hard.
But what is the logic of dampening your character if 5 max lvl dudes are gonna oneshot you again and again just to gain "honor points". It makes no sense and it gives you no way to defend yourself.
Yes maybe sometimes a very high lvl guy is gonna start a massacre of innocent people, but everybody is gonna notice and the good guys are gonna come and destroy him, and thats a memorable thing in games. Let the game be please.
Corruption falls away by dying via PvP. You won’t get “camped forever” because you won’t be corrupted forever and you respawn in a semi-random spot so it’s not like they could follow you anyway to kill on spawn.
It’s disingenuous to claim these penalties are out of scope. You killed a player who obviously didn’t want to fight back, in a game where TTK is ~30-60s. You had plenty of time to realize this, and plenty of time to avoid corruption. If they don’t fight in all that time, it’s your fault you got corruption, not anyone else’s.
If you want a game that allowed you to grief people without any consequences then maybe you should look into games like mortal online or darkfall. They are probably more of the "wild west" you are looking for.
Otherwise. If you are corrupted, you intentionally ganked a player that was not okay with PvP. If you don't want the effects of being corrupted, then PVP against combatants. Why is that hard to understand?
I think that corruption should stack and I may be into the idea of dampening on an individual basis. If you kill the same person # times within 30min, then maybe next time they fight you, your stats vs them are decayed, or they get resistance against you. This may solve both sides of the conversation.
I think that corruption should stack and I may be into the idea of dampening on an individual basis. If you kill the same person # times within 30min, then maybe next time they fight you, your stats vs them are decayed, or they get resistance against you. This may solve both sides of the conversation.
Corruption does stack. “Corrupted” is the state of having Corruption in any amount, which is only gained by killing greens, attacking them is perfectly fine as long as you don’t kill. Once you have no Corruption (which is removed via PvP deaths or a lengthy religious questline), you are no longer Corrupted.
The higher the corruption value, the more dampened your stats and the higher risk of losing items. Aka, one kill will see a very minor impact on your combat stats and a nearly-zero chance to drop any gear, but ten kills will make a Corrupted significantly less powerful and a significantly higher risk to drop gear.
This is all part of the system of deterring griefing and meaningless PvP.
Nobody is talking about ganking low levels. But non-pvpers, and players at your own level, or a level below you. Why should you be penalized in stats for attacking a same level player?
You're penalized because you're killing someone innocent. It's akin to go into someone's house, beat them to death and claim all you did was self defense.
The system punishes you for:
- killing someone who DIDN'T FIGHT BACK
That's it. There are no other caveats to the corruption system.
I think that corruption should stack and I may be into the idea of dampening on an individual basis. If you kill the same person # times within 30min, then maybe next time they fight you, your stats vs them are decayed, or they get resistance against you. This may solve both sides of the conversation.
Corruption does stack. “Corrupted” is the state of having Corruption in any amount, which is only gained by killing greens, attacking them is perfectly fine as long as you don’t kill. Once you have no Corruption (which is removed via PvP deaths or a lengthy religious questline), you are no longer Corrupted.
The higher the corruption value, the more dampened your stats and the higher risk of losing items. Aka, one kill will see a very minor impact on your combat stats and a nearly-zero chance to drop any gear, but ten kills will make a Corrupted significantly less powerful and a significantly higher risk to drop gear.
This is all part of the system of deterring griefing and meaningless PvP.
If it's meaningless PvP, they might as well completely block us from attacking players that are lower level than us. What's the point fighting anyone who's not on the same level as you? That way you won't be able to kill anyone who's still far below you in levels or items.
But fuck me if I'm unable to kill anyone in a pvp focused game in the open world, without being retardly handicapped afterwards.
You're literally asking for PVE game. "Oh but its not PVE, sieges and caravans" fuck that shit.
No. The dampening is necessary. I’d sooner see the gear loss removed than the combat power since it’s combat power that lets griefers continue ruining the experience of other players.
And once again since apparently people refuse to check, you will not be at real risk of losing gear after one PK. Only if you continuously engage with discouraged PvP will you be at risk of losing gear.
The dampening is NOT necessary at all, when you are corrupted no one is gonna trust you and you basically are locked out of the huge social structure of the game. Then every high lvl player is gonna camp you to death and you will not even play the game. The playerbase is gonna reject you till you clean your name, and its gonna be hard.
But what is the logic of dampening your character if 5 max lvl dudes are gonna oneshot you again and again just to gain "honor points". It makes no sense and it gives you no way to defend yourself.
Yes maybe sometimes a very high lvl guy is gonna start a massacre of innocent people, but everybody is gonna notice and the good guys are gonna come and destroy him, and thats a memorable thing in games. Let the game be please.
The dampening is necessary because the map is huge. Resources are not next to node's defenses and you could potentially camp a mine and PK non stop.
Maybe there's not a BH nearby, meanwhile you've killed 50 lowbies because you're """"evil"""", and without the dampening system no one can stop you from griefing those lowbies
I think that corruption should stack and I may be into the idea of dampening on an individual basis. If you kill the same person # times within 30min, then maybe next time they fight you, your stats vs them are decayed, or they get resistance against you. This may solve both sides of the conversation.
Corruption does stack. “Corrupted” is the state of having Corruption in any amount, which is only gained by killing greens, attacking them is perfectly fine as long as you don’t kill. Once you have no Corruption (which is removed via PvP deaths or a lengthy religious questline), you are no longer Corrupted.
The higher the corruption value, the more dampened your stats and the higher risk of losing items. Aka, one kill will see a very minor impact on your combat stats and a nearly-zero chance to drop any gear, but ten kills will make a Corrupted significantly less powerful and a significantly higher risk to drop gear.
This is all part of the system of deterring griefing and meaningless PvP.
If it's meaningless PvP, they might as well completely block us from attacking players that are lower level than us. What's the point fighting anyone who's not on the same level as you? That way you won't be able to kill anyone who's still far below you in levels or items.
But fuck me if I'm unable to kill anyone in a pvp focused game in the open world, without being retardly handicapped afterwards.
You're literally asking for PVE game. "Oh but its not PVE, sieges and caravans" fuck that shit.
What you’re not understanding is that this system is not in place to stop players from attacking other players. They want players to fight over resources, which is why fighting back is incentivized and why killing players who don’t fight back is penalized.
There is only one reason a player would choose to not fight back:
1) There is nothing they want to fight over
This could mean they don’t care about losing a port of whatever mats they have. It could mean you ganked them in the middle of nowhere for no reason. It could mean they dislike you more than they care about the penalties they will have.
No matter the reason they’ve found insignificant value in their own penalties, the attacker must actively choose to go through with the kill knowing that this player has nothing they find of significant value to lose.
You just seem extremely toxic to be perfectly honest. There’s nothing wrong with punishing people for making active, informed, detrimental choices. You get to deal with the consequences of making poor choices. Attack whoever you want, but stop pretending you’re the victim when there’s a system that punishes you for being a murderhobo.
I think that corruption should stack and I may be into the idea of dampening on an individual basis. If you kill the same person # times within 30min, then maybe next time they fight you, your stats vs them are decayed, or they get resistance against you. This may solve both sides of the conversation.
Corruption does stack. “Corrupted” is the state of having Corruption in any amount, which is only gained by killing greens, attacking them is perfectly fine as long as you don’t kill. Once you have no Corruption (which is removed via PvP deaths or a lengthy religious questline), you are no longer Corrupted.
The higher the corruption value, the more dampened your stats and the higher risk of losing items. Aka, one kill will see a very minor impact on your combat stats and a nearly-zero chance to drop any gear, but ten kills will make a Corrupted significantly less powerful and a significantly higher risk to drop gear.
This is all part of the system of deterring griefing and meaningless PvP.
If it's meaningless PvP, they might as well completely block us from attacking players that are lower level than us. What's the point fighting anyone who's not on the same level as you? That way you won't be able to kill anyone who's still far below you in levels or items.
But fuck me if I'm unable to kill anyone in a pvp focused game in the open world, without being retardly handicapped afterwards.
You're literally asking for PVE game. "Oh but its not PVE, sieges and caravans" fuck that shit.
What you’re not understanding is that this system is not in place to stop players from attacking other players. They want players to fight over resources, which is why fighting back is incentivized and why killing players who don’t fight back is penalized.
There is only one reason a player would choose to not fight back:
1) There is nothing they want to fight over
This could mean they don’t care about losing a port of whatever mats they have. It could mean you ganked them in the middle of nowhere for no reason. It could mean they dislike you more than they care about the penalties they will have.
No matter the reason they’ve found insignificant value in their own penalties, the attacker must actively choose to go through with the kill knowing that this player has nothing they find of significant value to lose.
You just seem extremely toxic to be perfectly honest. There’s nothing wrong with punishing people for making active, informed, detrimental choices. You get to deal with the consequences of making poor choices. Attack whoever you want, but stop pretending you’re the victim when there’s a system that punishes you for being a murderhobo.
Best thing you can do is not fight back and give them corruption it's what they get for attacking you for no reason
I think that corruption should stack and I may be into the idea of dampening on an individual basis. If you kill the same person # times within 30min, then maybe next time they fight you, your stats vs them are decayed, or they get resistance against you. This may solve both sides of the conversation.
Corruption does stack. “Corrupted” is the state of having Corruption in any amount, which is only gained by killing greens, attacking them is perfectly fine as long as you don’t kill. Once you have no Corruption (which is removed via PvP deaths or a lengthy religious questline), you are no longer Corrupted.
The higher the corruption value, the more dampened your stats and the higher risk of losing items. Aka, one kill will see a very minor impact on your combat stats and a nearly-zero chance to drop any gear, but ten kills will make a Corrupted significantly less powerful and a significantly higher risk to drop gear.
This is all part of the system of deterring griefing and meaningless PvP.
If it's meaningless PvP, they might as well completely block us from attacking players that are lower level than us. What's the point fighting anyone who's not on the same level as you? That way you won't be able to kill anyone who's still far below you in levels or items.
But fuck me if I'm unable to kill anyone in a pvp focused game in the open world, without being retardly handicapped afterwards.
You're literally asking for PVE game. "Oh but its not PVE, sieges and caravans" fuck that shit.
I guess you are missing the point of the game then lol. It's not a PvP focused game. It's equal parts PvP and PvE. Both types of play are welcome and greatly supported within the mechanics of the system. There are a ton of methods of participating in consensual PvP and you get no penalties for doing so. Then you can also participate in world PvP and as long as the other person fights back you can kill them with no consequence. The only time you get corruption is when the other player refuses to fight back.
In your example of a player taking your resources, you can kill that player the 1 time and your stats will not be dampened if they are the same level as you. You will be at the lowest tier of corruption which means a small chance of dropping gear on death. Also the fastest to work off. Meanwhile, the person you kill is no longer at that resource, you take some of the resources they dropped, and you are free to start taking that resource yourself.
The dampening only happens if you kill several people without them fighting back and without clearing your corruption. It's extremely straightforward.
Killing someone over and over or interrupting the game for a group of players for a potentially long period of time(1hr+) is something the devs ACTIVELY want to avoid. That's why the dampening is in place. That is their solution to that. Bounty Hunters still have to travel to where you are to stop you. The map is large and there is no fast travel.
A max lvl player could equip some secondary gear and then go to a place where they just interrupt someone over and over. This person doesn't have to be a lower level than you, they might not like PvP and know that they aren't good at it. So even with better gear they know they can't win and don't even care to learn how to win. Power dampening stops this type of person from getting grief'd.
@BlackBrony
Nobody here is advocating about killing low leveled players.
Just because eno one here is advocating it, doesn't mean no one here will do it if the system allows for it.
Corruption is a way for people that don't enjoy or want to participate in PvP to get back at those that would attack them. PvP players are supposed to hate it, because it is not in the game for them, it is in the game to curb or control them.
I still find it odd how few people realize that the real penalty to corruption - at least large amounts of corruption - is the experience debt you will gain as that corruption is taken from you via being killed.
Experience debt is essentially a debuff to your stats, much the same as corruption, but it applies to everything, all the time, until you work the debt off.
Thing is, you are left to work the debt off while you have this debuff, so it will be a slow, painful slog to get a character back to being usable in any content if you gain too much corruption.
If you attack and kill a player while you have this debuff, you then have two stat reducing debuffs on you at the same time.
in ragards to 3 i think there is a very simple fix that is made of 2 parts
first: lock the player equipped items once attacking non-combatant players and keep it locked untill the attacked players attack back and get flagged as combatant. (must be in a way that doesnt let u change to lower gear just b4 u "finish" the kill)
second: upon death lose more than you drop to be looted..
for example if a corruped player has in their inventory 400 copper ores, when he die he will lose 200 but only 100 will drop and be avaible for loot. since people who kill corruped players dont suffer any penalties this is enough of an incentive to attack corrupted players.
also, instead of dropping the gear so people can loot, some (very little hopefully) might altogether be destroyed or suffer a special kind of durability loss making it very costly to fix and almost or completely useless untill doing so (most mmo's just have it lose durability without effects on stats so that only when it breaks completely u are no longer getting effect from the stats, perhaps a special kind of durability loss for the corrupted system can have it drastically lose stats upon death). in this case there wont be sense using your best gear to attack non-combatant unless there is a really big reward involved, wich doesnt tend to happen when you fight lower level or lower gearscore people. another problem that may occur then is players systematically crafting cheap yet strong enough gear to kill weaker enemies for profit, a fix for that is to simply not let there be any profit. this needs to be done by the community, people should be aware of the risk of carrying a high number of valuables at any given time and be punished for being greedy. for example gathering, people can keep mining valueable ores untill their inventory is full b4 they return to their city but at a much greater risk therefore making the game more engaging and challenging in every aspect that you play it.
just as players can find a way to exploit a system, they can also find a way to minimize the risk to a level every1 can enjoy.
the risk should be balanced so that all types of players can enjoy, from hardcore pvp to hardcore pve, and all that is between.
1.) Dampening sounds like ass, idc how strong or weak someone is or how evil or good they are, having the game lower your stats or w/e it'll be sounds like you're being penalized BEYOND the corruption system just because you killed some people. Just by the sounds of it I would want dampening to be thrown out no questions asked.
The stat damp is the corruption system. It is REQUIRED for corruption to function as a proper deterrent to unwanted behavior
that's not the only downside of being corrupted though, all stat dampening does is immediately make you weaker, making it harder to fight for your life if you're attacked, don't forget you could potentially drop gear if you go corrupted. There's no reason to arbitrarily make someone weaker because they decided to kill a few people.
If a good way to clear corruption is death, then could two players simply go around killing players, stacking corruption right before they reach the threshold they become marked on a map or drop items, and they simply kill one another, looting each other until corruption is cleared and then continue with basically no penalty? If killing a corrupted player as a corrupted player doesn't help clear, could you not involve a 3rd member (with no corruption) every so often who comes into the mix and is in charge of killing the two corrupted players and then looting & trading valuables.
A solution to this:
When a player is corrupted and dies, some of the items that are dropped from him (like weapons and gear) could become thrash/junk and unusable. That way the two players that want to kill each other to clear corruption will lose items. Plus with this system when some of the items are destroyed permanently instead of dropping, it will help prevent overall economic inflation. This can also be implemented when a caravan is destroyed. What do you think?
If a good way to clear corruption is death, then could two players simply go around killing players, stacking corruption right before they reach the threshold they become marked on a map or drop items, and they simply kill one another, looting each other until corruption is cleared and then continue with basically no penalty? If killing a corrupted player as a corrupted player doesn't help clear, could you not involve a 3rd member (with no corruption) every so often who comes into the mix and is in charge of killing the two corrupted players and then looting & trading valuables.
A solution to this:
When a player is corrupted and dies, some of the items that are dropped from him (like weapons and gear) could become thrash/junk and unusable. That way the two players that want to kill each other to clear corruption will lose items. Plus with this system when some of the items are destroyed permanently instead of dropping, it will help prevent overall economic inflation. This can also be implemented when a caravan is destroyed. What do you think?
This is elegant.
A bit sad for bounty hunters though...
Also, this needs highlighting because it sounds like some people missed it:
You do not gain corruption for attacking someone who doesn't fight back - you turn purple so that PvP can begin.
You gain corruption for killing someone who doesn't fight back - you turn red for being a piece of trash/losing your temper/(or stealing from a hard-working gatherer)
The system is there because sometimes violence is necessary, but it is not the norm and comes with karma.
You wanna live the high-risk life? Then why are you trying to reduce the risk?
Damn girls, you have been digging deep for your Necromancy efforts:
Let's quickly recap what we know, most of which we have known in 2020 as well, but OP didn't think to look it up before soothsaying:
PVP Dampening is bad for competition and community
Opinion, nothing here to address. If the griefer was looking for competition, then he shouldn't have killed someone who doesn't fight back in the first place.
Lvl 1's can block doorways with no solution
Incorrect, they can be shoved away.
Corrupted players can get team-killed to circumvent penalties.
Incorrect, that there is a certain threshhold. The first point of corruption already brings the full penalties upon the corrupted (including a chance to drop gear).
Still, a valid point, haven't been addressed yet. Minimizing the penalties you suffer by letting a friend kill you is, by our current knowledge, still an option. Not only that, if his friend is a bounty hunter, then the bounty hunter even progresses in that progression path.
Obviously, the corrupted still incurs the non-material-based penalities (EXP Deficit etc.), but it certainly beats the loss of gear and materials.
Damn girls, you have been digging deep for your Necromancy efforts:
Let's quickly recap what we know, most of which we have known in 2020 as well, but OP didn't think to look it up before soothsaying:
PVP Dampening is bad for competition and community
Opinion, nothing here to address. If the griefer was looking for competition, then he shouldn't have killed someone who doesn't fight back in the first place.
Lvl 1's can block doorways with no solution
Incorrect, they can be shoved away.
Corrupted players can get team-killed to circumvent penalties.
Incorrect, that there is a certain threshhold. The first point of corruption already brings the full penalties upon the corrupted (including a chance to drop gear).
Still, a valid point, haven't been addressed yet. Minimizing the penalties you suffer by letting a friend kill you is, by our current knowledge, still an option. Not only that, if his friend is a bounty hunter, then the bounty hunter even progresses in that progression path.
Obviously, the corrupted still incurs the non-material-based penalities (EXP Deficit etc.), but it certainly beats the loss of gear and materials.
Non-damage abilities could flag or avoid flag
Nope.
Someone is making new accounts and bringing old threads back, most likely the same person
Comments
Take a better look at the corruption system. There are already so many things in place against corrupted players.
The wider the level disparity between the players, the more corruption will be gained.
If a non-combatant attacks a corrupt player, the non-combatant will not flag as a combatant.
A corrupt player’s location is revealed to bounty hunters on their world map.
Corruption penalties occur as the corruption is gained. The higher the corruption score:
The more skill and stat dampening applies (lower health and mana, lower gear proficiency), until the corrupt player ultimately becomes ineffective at combat. This dampening only affects PvP combat.
The higher chance of dropping of carried raw materials and gear (Weapons and Armor) when the corrupted player dies.
Add to the above, the higher the score, the more items you drop on death. And remove the dampening, and we're set.
Wait, why even have an option to attack green players if they will flag you for corruption? Is this designed to give players an option to BECOME corrupted by choice, even though it's supposed to be an anti-griefing mechanic?
Corruption is too harsh. Having your name in red and everybody hating you and not trusting you for a long time is ENOUGH, we have to believe in the players and the community.
Im not even a pvp player, but we have to allow the freedom for people to control society and not force it, no one will ever want to be a bad guy, its too harsh.
I dont care if I get camped a couple times, thats how the game works, dont make it fair for sensitive players who are gonna be harvesting flowers for 400h.
None of those things stop long periods of griefing except for the dampening though. That's why it is there.
If you want to play around corruption you need to strike a balance of gaining and then clearing it. That's the intended way. If someone could play through the whole game while staying corrupt the whole time it would invite entirely corrupt guilds and lawless killing of players that just don't enjoy PvP.
The game already has tons of PvP options in the game. They want to allow PvE players to enjoy as well. The compromise is a very punishing system for PvPers that want to destroy the fun of those that don't want to PvP.
No. The dampening is necessary. I’d sooner see the gear loss removed than the combat power since it’s combat power that lets griefers continue ruining the experience of other players.
And once again since apparently people refuse to check, you will not be at real risk of losing gear after one PK. Only if you continuously engage with discouraged PvP will you be at risk of losing gear.
2.) Removing unit collision would solve that problem easily, and not to mention it could only hinder some aspects of the game later on down the road, for example a huge raid pushing through some narrow passages, it could slow down the raid and make it too easy for the opposition to aoe it unless intrepid accounted for this and wants it. But with this current topic there's no doubt in my mind people might try this to grief or troll or even hinder other players' progress in the early stages as there are always groups of people who try to no life to max level and race ahead of others so they can take control more easily. I think having a threshold that you have to fall below before your character is officially considered corrupted would help stave off some of the more "wtf" moments where you kill someone or it was a split second thing and another player got caught up in your attack and instantly died. What do you do if someone removes their gear and it's not noticeable enough and you 1 shot them and go corrupted?
3.) losing corruption by dying will definitely be abused by friends and guildies unless guildies can never attack each other regardless of the circumstance, I don't see a way to prevent this without removing the fact that dying clears up corruption.
4.) It only makes sense that flagging and CCing someone even if it doesn't do damage should flag you as a combatant, this gives the other person the freedom of choice between do nothing or start fighting. Healing works normally, but if you heal a combatant or a corrupted player, it is only fair that you become a combatant as well but should definitely not give you corruption points right off the bat, this gives the opposition the fair play of attacking the supports, which is sometimes targeted first in a fight. If it did not then supports would have all the time in the world to heal and buff combatants or other corrupted players without putting themselves at risk of being attacked, but it shouldn't give you corruption points, I believe becoming corrupted should stem directly from killing others. That is definitely up for debate though because a healer could definitely support a corrupted player primarily if they choose with no chance of becoming corrupted themselves.
What about the issue that plagued BDO with karmabombing once they removed xp loss from owpvp, people didnt care about dying, the loser lost nothing, while the victor lost karma, if they continued losing karma they went red and would then be penalized themselves. There's no rule that says a player HAS to fight back, what do you do if someone is taking super rare resources right in front of you but they dont even pvp or pve and theyre a lifeskiller character, they wont fight back. What do you do if the fights super one sided and the loser decides theres no point in fighting back a second time and now the stronger player is either forced to become corrupted or have their farming location interrupted or resources taken right in front of their eyes. There's lots of ways to get stronger in MMOs while avoiding conflict with players, but if someone puts themselves in a situation where they could potentially get killed by another player, especially if there's a large incentive to be attacked I.E you're taking rare resources or at a popular grinding area, there's nothing stopping someone from dying without fighting back and just returning right to what they were doing unless they don't want to lose the materials they've gathered, but even then you don't lose all of them which I do agree with. And don't give me that "learn to share" crap that people spouted on BDO.
The stat damp is the corruption system. It is REQUIRED for corruption to function as a proper deterrent to unwanted behavior
The dampening is NOT necessary at all, when you are corrupted no one is gonna trust you and you basically are locked out of the huge social structure of the game. Then every high lvl player is gonna camp you to death and you will not even play the game. The playerbase is gonna reject you till you clean your name, and its gonna be hard.
But what is the logic of dampening your character if 5 max lvl dudes are gonna oneshot you again and again just to gain "honor points". It makes no sense and it gives you no way to defend yourself.
Yes maybe sometimes a very high lvl guy is gonna start a massacre of innocent people, but everybody is gonna notice and the good guys are gonna come and destroy him, and thats a memorable thing in games. Let the game be please.
Corruption falls away by dying via PvP. You won’t get “camped forever” because you won’t be corrupted forever and you respawn in a semi-random spot so it’s not like they could follow you anyway to kill on spawn.
It’s disingenuous to claim these penalties are out of scope. You killed a player who obviously didn’t want to fight back, in a game where TTK is ~30-60s. You had plenty of time to realize this, and plenty of time to avoid corruption. If they don’t fight in all that time, it’s your fault you got corruption, not anyone else’s.
Otherwise. If you are corrupted, you intentionally ganked a player that was not okay with PvP. If you don't want the effects of being corrupted, then PVP against combatants. Why is that hard to understand?
Corruption does stack. “Corrupted” is the state of having Corruption in any amount, which is only gained by killing greens, attacking them is perfectly fine as long as you don’t kill. Once you have no Corruption (which is removed via PvP deaths or a lengthy religious questline), you are no longer Corrupted.
The higher the corruption value, the more dampened your stats and the higher risk of losing items. Aka, one kill will see a very minor impact on your combat stats and a nearly-zero chance to drop any gear, but ten kills will make a Corrupted significantly less powerful and a significantly higher risk to drop gear.
This is all part of the system of deterring griefing and meaningless PvP.
You're penalized because you're killing someone innocent. It's akin to go into someone's house, beat them to death and claim all you did was self defense.
The system punishes you for:
- killing someone who DIDN'T FIGHT BACK
That's it. There are no other caveats to the corruption system.
If it's meaningless PvP, they might as well completely block us from attacking players that are lower level than us. What's the point fighting anyone who's not on the same level as you? That way you won't be able to kill anyone who's still far below you in levels or items.
But fuck me if I'm unable to kill anyone in a pvp focused game in the open world, without being retardly handicapped afterwards.
You're literally asking for PVE game. "Oh but its not PVE, sieges and caravans" fuck that shit.
The dampening is necessary because the map is huge. Resources are not next to node's defenses and you could potentially camp a mine and PK non stop.
Maybe there's not a BH nearby, meanwhile you've killed 50 lowbies because you're """"evil"""", and without the dampening system no one can stop you from griefing those lowbies
Nobody here is advocating about killing low leveled players.
It's the same. Becoming corrupted means killing someone who didn't fight back. Either because they didn't want to or because they got one shot.
The concept behind is the same, engaging in non consensual PvP
What you’re not understanding is that this system is not in place to stop players from attacking other players. They want players to fight over resources, which is why fighting back is incentivized and why killing players who don’t fight back is penalized.
There is only one reason a player would choose to not fight back:
1) There is nothing they want to fight over
This could mean they don’t care about losing a port of whatever mats they have. It could mean you ganked them in the middle of nowhere for no reason. It could mean they dislike you more than they care about the penalties they will have.
No matter the reason they’ve found insignificant value in their own penalties, the attacker must actively choose to go through with the kill knowing that this player has nothing they find of significant value to lose.
You just seem extremely toxic to be perfectly honest. There’s nothing wrong with punishing people for making active, informed, detrimental choices. You get to deal with the consequences of making poor choices. Attack whoever you want, but stop pretending you’re the victim when there’s a system that punishes you for being a murderhobo.
Best thing you can do is not fight back and give them corruption it's what they get for attacking you for no reason
I guess you are missing the point of the game then lol. It's not a PvP focused game. It's equal parts PvP and PvE. Both types of play are welcome and greatly supported within the mechanics of the system. There are a ton of methods of participating in consensual PvP and you get no penalties for doing so. Then you can also participate in world PvP and as long as the other person fights back you can kill them with no consequence. The only time you get corruption is when the other player refuses to fight back.
In your example of a player taking your resources, you can kill that player the 1 time and your stats will not be dampened if they are the same level as you. You will be at the lowest tier of corruption which means a small chance of dropping gear on death. Also the fastest to work off. Meanwhile, the person you kill is no longer at that resource, you take some of the resources they dropped, and you are free to start taking that resource yourself.
The dampening only happens if you kill several people without them fighting back and without clearing your corruption. It's extremely straightforward.
Killing someone over and over or interrupting the game for a group of players for a potentially long period of time(1hr+) is something the devs ACTIVELY want to avoid. That's why the dampening is in place. That is their solution to that. Bounty Hunters still have to travel to where you are to stop you. The map is large and there is no fast travel.
A max lvl player could equip some secondary gear and then go to a place where they just interrupt someone over and over. This person doesn't have to be a lower level than you, they might not like PvP and know that they aren't good at it. So even with better gear they know they can't win and don't even care to learn how to win. Power dampening stops this type of person from getting grief'd.
Just because eno one here is advocating it, doesn't mean no one here will do it if the system allows for it.
Corruption is a way for people that don't enjoy or want to participate in PvP to get back at those that would attack them. PvP players are supposed to hate it, because it is not in the game for them, it is in the game to curb or control them.
I still find it odd how few people realize that the real penalty to corruption - at least large amounts of corruption - is the experience debt you will gain as that corruption is taken from you via being killed.
Experience debt is essentially a debuff to your stats, much the same as corruption, but it applies to everything, all the time, until you work the debt off.
Thing is, you are left to work the debt off while you have this debuff, so it will be a slow, painful slog to get a character back to being usable in any content if you gain too much corruption.
If you attack and kill a player while you have this debuff, you then have two stat reducing debuffs on you at the same time.
first: lock the player equipped items once attacking non-combatant players and keep it locked untill the attacked players attack back and get flagged as combatant. (must be in a way that doesnt let u change to lower gear just b4 u "finish" the kill)
second: upon death lose more than you drop to be looted..
for example if a corruped player has in their inventory 400 copper ores, when he die he will lose 200 but only 100 will drop and be avaible for loot. since people who kill corruped players dont suffer any penalties this is enough of an incentive to attack corrupted players.
also, instead of dropping the gear so people can loot, some (very little hopefully) might altogether be destroyed or suffer a special kind of durability loss making it very costly to fix and almost or completely useless untill doing so (most mmo's just have it lose durability without effects on stats so that only when it breaks completely u are no longer getting effect from the stats, perhaps a special kind of durability loss for the corrupted system can have it drastically lose stats upon death). in this case there wont be sense using your best gear to attack non-combatant unless there is a really big reward involved, wich doesnt tend to happen when you fight lower level or lower gearscore people. another problem that may occur then is players systematically crafting cheap yet strong enough gear to kill weaker enemies for profit, a fix for that is to simply not let there be any profit. this needs to be done by the community, people should be aware of the risk of carrying a high number of valuables at any given time and be punished for being greedy. for example gathering, people can keep mining valueable ores untill their inventory is full b4 they return to their city but at a much greater risk therefore making the game more engaging and challenging in every aspect that you play it.
just as players can find a way to exploit a system, they can also find a way to minimize the risk to a level every1 can enjoy.
the risk should be balanced so that all types of players can enjoy, from hardcore pvp to hardcore pve, and all that is between.
that's not the only downside of being corrupted though, all stat dampening does is immediately make you weaker, making it harder to fight for your life if you're attacked, don't forget you could potentially drop gear if you go corrupted. There's no reason to arbitrarily make someone weaker because they decided to kill a few people.
A solution to this:
When a player is corrupted and dies, some of the items that are dropped from him (like weapons and gear) could become thrash/junk and unusable. That way the two players that want to kill each other to clear corruption will lose items. Plus with this system when some of the items are destroyed permanently instead of dropping, it will help prevent overall economic inflation. This can also be implemented when a caravan is destroyed. What do you think?
This is elegant.
A bit sad for bounty hunters though...
You do not gain corruption for attacking someone who doesn't fight back - you turn purple so that PvP can begin.
You gain corruption for killing someone who doesn't fight back - you turn red for being a piece of trash/losing your temper/(or stealing from a hard-working gatherer)
The system is there because sometimes violence is necessary, but it is not the norm and comes with karma.
You wanna live the high-risk life? Then why are you trying to reduce the risk?
Let's quickly recap what we know, most of which we have known in 2020 as well, but OP didn't think to look it up before soothsaying:
Opinion, nothing here to address. If the griefer was looking for competition, then he shouldn't have killed someone who doesn't fight back in the first place.
Incorrect, they can be shoved away.
Incorrect, that there is a certain threshhold. The first point of corruption already brings the full penalties upon the corrupted (including a chance to drop gear).
Still, a valid point, haven't been addressed yet. Minimizing the penalties you suffer by letting a friend kill you is, by our current knowledge, still an option. Not only that, if his friend is a bounty hunter, then the bounty hunter even progresses in that progression path.
Obviously, the corrupted still incurs the non-material-based penalities (EXP Deficit etc.), but it certainly beats the loss of gear and materials.
Nope.
Someone is making new accounts and bringing old threads back, most likely the same person