So "Alpha 1" is up for sale....Again?

GemiiChanGemiiChan Member, Braver of Worlds
I just want to understand why we are putting "Alpha 1" participation up for sale, outside of the MANY things wrong with that in general, when we havent even gotten K.S. & Summer Sale people into the game yet?

Like from what was just said in the last dev stream, Leader of Men package holders are JUST being allowed into the current "Alpha" build, and as a Braver of World pack holder who is also supposed to have access to alpha 1, Im really trying to understand why we are putting access to that back into play?

Especially, when once again an entire selling point was the limited time access to those packs.

Someone please help me understand.
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Comments

  • ShadowheartShadowheart Member
    edited August 1
    They never said they were. Steven said they will think about it AFTER Alpha 1 backers are rolled out and if they think the server can handle more; THEN they will roll out Alpha 1 upgrades/packs

    It was never a definitive decision and might never be
  • They never said they were. Steven said they will think about it AFTER Alpha 1 backers are rolled out and if they think the server can handle more; THEN they will roll out Alpha 1 upgrades/packs

    It was never a definitive decision and might never be

    If you buy alpha 2 now and then have to buy alpha 1 pack you better be able get credit for the alpha 2 pack
  • WiplasherWiplasher Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty
    So I was watching the stream in discord with a bunch of kickstarter backers and I'll share what is basically already on your mind.

    If they want to start including other tiers of the kickstarter (alpha) guys into the alpha testing that is fine by them. The issue comes when they go down the list to a point where it starts hitting the beta boys.

    People paid money simply to be part of alpha testing. Many of them don't want guild name reservations so if they could have paid a cheaper price and still been part of the alpha testing they wouldn't have spent as much.

    Frankly I don't care what they do but I am also in the boat of at this point ditch the headstart so i'm a rarity. This though, this is a line they should not cross unless ABSOLUTELY necessary for the success of the game.
  • GemiiChanGemiiChan Member, Braver of Worlds
    edited August 1
    They never said they were. Steven said they will think about it AFTER Alpha 1 backers are rolled out and if they think the server can handle more; THEN they will roll out Alpha 1 upgrades/packs

    It was never a definitive decision and might never be

    The whole point is it shouldnt be up period. The point has passed. Its the same issue with him "tweaking" what he meant by the word "EXCLUSIVE" and the whole "summer sale" thing.
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  • GemiiChan wrote: »
    They never said they were. Steven said they will think about it AFTER Alpha 1 backers are rolled out and if they think the server can handle more; THEN they will roll out Alpha 1 upgrades/packs

    It was never a definitive decision and might never be

    The whole point is it shouldnt be up period. The point has pasted. Its the same issue with him "tweaking" what he meant by the word "EXCLUSIVE" and the whole "summer sale" thing.

    Star citizen said on KS they would ever sell some of those ships again...then they sold them like 20 more times every time they needed more money lol its just how anything that is KS or privately funded usually ends up
  • GemiiChanGemiiChan Member, Braver of Worlds
    wiplasher4 wrote: »
    So I was watching the stream in discord with a bunch of kickstarter backers and I'll share what is basically already on your mind.

    If they want to start including other tiers of the kickstarter (alpha) guys into the alpha testing that is fine by them. The issue comes when they go down the list to a point where it starts hitting the beta boys.

    People paid money simply to be part of alpha testing. Many of them don't want guild name reservations so if they could have paid a cheaper price and still been part of the alpha testing they wouldn't have spent as much.

    Frankly I don't care what they do but I am also in the boat of at this point ditch the headstart so i'm a rarity. This though, this is a line they should not cross unless ABSOLUTELY necessary for the success of the game.

    I think we should get what we paid for period. How are you even considering adding more people when you havent even gotten to all the people that current have that access as it is? That makes no sense at all.

    Time and time again have we've been told things and then he comes back with some excuse as to why it wasnt exactly what is was. It tiring. At this point its hard to believe anything.

    All the backers, regardless of tier were deeply invested in the making of a great game and I am in no way wanting it to unsuccessful, but I just want to know where the line for alterations stop. When do we actually get to hold them accountable for what is being said?

    I know people that legit spent their last on the KS stuff because we were told that we werent going to be able to get these things again, then they came out with the summer backer things - there are other instances and its just now becoming a trend. Now the "Alpha 1" access may be coming back after you made definitive statements about it not returning? Like...where is the line?
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  • GemiiChanGemiiChan Member, Braver of Worlds
    Aardvark wrote: »
    GemiiChan wrote: »
    They never said they were. Steven said they will think about it AFTER Alpha 1 backers are rolled out and if they think the server can handle more; THEN they will roll out Alpha 1 upgrades/packs

    It was never a definitive decision and might never be

    The whole point is it shouldnt be up period. The point has pasted. Its the same issue with him "tweaking" what he meant by the word "EXCLUSIVE" and the whole "summer sale" thing.

    Star citizen said on KS they would ever sell some of those ships again...then they sold them like 20 more times every time they needed more money lol its just how anything that is KS or privately funded usually ends up

    But this isnt Star Citizen and we arent talking about that game. We are talking about AoC or Ashes of Creation. Im not holding them to SC expectations, Im holding them to AoC expectations.
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  • The real solution would be if you have room in late alpha1 for more people starting inviting the alpha 2 people.
  • I am... Confused...
    Is your only reasoning to "not let anyone else into alpha-1" is that they "didnt get there in time, tough luck"??
    Alpha-1 of all possible semi-public releases is meant to test out the foundation of the game, the core aspects, how they work and interact, to test out various bugs that were overlooked on the dev side. Only at the very end of the list is the "amusement park" reason... And even if, will it bother you that instead of 10000 people(the announced numerical value of backers with alpha-1 access) you will get 12000-15000? If they can afford getting more people to the critical testing stages, its going to be reflected only in better development any further.
    Also consider the fact that the backing reservations were made a few years ago, there is a good chance that some of those backers arent even interested in the alpha, or in the project at all, which leaves IS with less testers than they intended, and they might consider getting a few more people in.

    tl;dr
    I dont understand the issue with getting more people in
  • GemiiChanGemiiChan Member, Braver of Worlds
    Aardvark wrote: »
    The real solution would be if you have room in late alpha1 for more people starting inviting the alpha 2 people.

    THIS! THIS is how you move forward! But saying things like "Oh Alpha 1 purchase may be available in the future.." is def a crappy move and isnt doing anything for backers of the game.
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  • OrcLuckOrcLuck Member, Braver of Worlds
    I think the fair point is, that alpha 2 people should be next in line, and people who pay now should be behind them.
  • GemiiChanGemiiChan Member, Braver of Worlds
    wArchAngel wrote: »
    I am... Confused...
    Is your only reasoning to "not let anyone else into alpha-1" is that they "didnt get there in time, tough luck"??
    Alpha-1 of all possible semi-public releases is meant to test out the foundation of the game, the core aspects, how they work and interact, to test out various bugs that were overlooked on the dev side. Only at the very end of the list is the "amusement park" reason... And even if, will it bother you that instead of 10000 people(the announced numerical value of backers with alpha-1 access) you will get 12000-15000? If they can afford getting more people to the critical testing stages, its going to be reflected only in better development any further.
    Also consider the fact that the backing reservations were made a few years ago, there is a good chance that some of those backers arent even interested in the alpha, or in the project at all, which leaves IS with less testers than they intended, and they might consider getting a few more people in.

    tl;dr
    I dont understand the issue with getting more people in


    No. My issue is with accountability and the lack of trust Steven continues to display for the original backers of the game. I dont care about people getting into the game - its an MMO. Im well aware of what an alpha testing space is for, and had you actually read the original post I clearly mention "...Leader of Men package holders are JUST being allowed into the current "Alpha" build" and there is a whole other tier of people "Braver of Worlds" who BOUGHT alpha 1 access, which was supposed to happen a while ago - but we will ignore timeline promises for the sake of brevity - that still havent had a chance to test anything.

    There are a massive amount of people ready to get in and test the game, which isnt the point.

    My point is, quit promising things to people and then altering the agreement under the guise of other things. If youve been following like a lot of us, you would have seen this trend, and its as tired then as it is now. Im not talking about name reservations (which can be sold separately at this point! I honestly dont care!), or anything else. Im talking about accountability and expectations. Getting more people in is a wonderful idea but how you go about doing it makes all the difference.
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  • CaerylCaeryl Member
    Alpha1 was never labeled a KS exclusive, so I don’t get where the complaints are coming from
  • StevenSharifStevenSharif Moderator, Staff, Avatar of the Phoenix
    edited August 1
    Hello frand. To clarify, Alpha One was never listed as exclusive. In fact, over 2 years ago when I “suspended” the Alpha One preorder packs I did specify that the access was being suspended because we had hit our 10k tester limit.

    My statement about reopening Alpha One sales will only come under consideration after our alpha one testing with our current Alpha One backers and Intrepid pre-order pack holders shows that we are capable of stress testing beyond our previously anticipated limits of 10k. If Alpha One were to be offered once more as a preorder package, it would be under a different pack name but of same price point.

    These intentions are consistent with my previous statements regarding Alpha One ❤️
  • OrcLuckOrcLuck Member, Braver of Worlds
    Steven sayith it be so. Also Steven when are we gonna get another D&D stream? What was it last time September?
  • It's better to think about the health of the game, for many years to come, and support additional testers, rather that gatekeep your 'exclusive club status'.

    Now if you dont want to be reasonable, remember, they never said that A1 sales were final.
  • VarkunVarkun Member, Braver of Worlds
    If more alpha 1 testers get us one day closer to launch I say let them in.
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    Close your eyes spread your arms and always trust your cape.
  • I... legitimately don't understand OP's thought process, to be honest.

    It's obvious from the stream they said they'd consider reopening alpha 1 sales *later*.

    As in, after the people that have already purchased them get in.

    Did you really think they'd start selling alpha 1 access again before they got the people that already bought alpha access into alpha?

    Really?

    Really.

    Come on now.
  • FuryBladeborneFuryBladeborne Member, Braver of Worlds
    edited August 1
    It's better to think about the health of the game, for many years to come, and support additional testers, rather that gatekeep your 'exclusive club status'.

    Backing out on exclusive rewards is not a good idea. Promised exclusion increases the sales at the time. For example, I bought a $500 package for myself and my wife. When I went to Kickstarter I intended to donate about $50 simply because I wanted to contribute to support the game. Because of the exclusive and limited time options, I ended up spending 20 times what I had intended to. Fortunately, I am confident that Steven will keep such purchases exclusive and in doing so, show that it was worth buying at that point in time in spite of the cost.

    Re-adding exclusive sales will cause players to distrust the promise which can have multiple problems but includes reducing the increase in sales because people will choose to wait.

    Of course, none of that applies to the OP because Alpha 1 was never exclusive. It can be verified by looking up the Kickstarter project and seeing that Alpha's were not specified as exclusive while certain other rewards were.

  • WiplasherWiplasher Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty
    Eh Well if its an actual sale at the same/similar price there shouldn't be a big deal. The problem would come if someone with a $75 dollar pack go into the alpha 1.
  • George BlackGeorge Black Member
    edited August 1
    It's better to think about the health of the game, for many years to come, and support additional testers, rather that gatekeep your 'exclusive club status'.

    Backing out on exclusive rewards is not a good idea. Promised exclusion increases the sales at the time. For example, I bought a $500 package for myself and my wife. When I went to Kickstarter I intended to donate about $50. Because of the exclusive and limited time options, I ended up spending 20 times what I had intended to. Fortunately, I am confident that Steven will keep such purchases exclusive and in doing so, show that it was worth paying so much.

    Re-adding exclusive sales will cause players to distrust the promise which can have multiple problems but includes reducing the increase in sales because people will choose to wait.

    Of course, none of that applies to the OP because Alpha 1 was never exclusive. It can be verified by looking up the Kickstarter project and seeing that Alpha's were not specified as exclusive while certain other rewards were.

    I got a $500 because this is the first time I believe in a new mmo. I want to test and provide feedback.
    If more people come to test paying $500 or upgrading, sweet. End of story.
    As if Ill give a damn about whether other people get the Spellbreaker gauntlent. Seriously? We are hire to find bugs and help the devs and people refuse to more testers coming?
    Meanwhile there's still war in syria.
    People, get your shiet together and stop being offended and feel victimized.
    To hell with your sense or privilege when it comes to cosmetics in the packs. Once more, they never said the salea were final.

  • SamsonSamson Member
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  • GemiiChanGemiiChan Member, Braver of Worlds
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Alpha1 was never labeled a KS exclusive, so I don’t get where the complaints are coming from
    That wasnt the argument I brought forth.
    Hello frand. To clarify, Alpha One was never listed as exclusive. In fact, over 2 years ago when I “suspended” the Alpha One preorder packs I did specify that the access was being suspended because we had hit our 10k tester limit.

    My statement about reopening Alpha One sales will only come under consideration after our alpha one testing with our current Alpha One backers and Intrepid pre-order pack holders shows that we are capable of stress testing beyond our previously anticipated limits of 10k. If Alpha One were to be offered once more as a preorder package, it would be under a different pack name but of same price point.

    These intentions are consistent with my previous statements regarding Alpha One ❤️

    You never said it was "suspended pending reopening" under any circumstances; especially when you pushed this narrative of "hurry up and make sure you dont miss out!" in combination with things like "Alpha 1 testing wont be available for purchase after this!" This continual mixing of "flowerly" language makes it really hard to believe in the other things you say.

    I stand firm in the belief that announcing "Alpha 1 may be available for purchase again.." before you've even finished rolling it out to the people that have been waiting for it, still feels like slap in the face.

    You say it will only be considered after testing, so I guess we shall wait and see. Thank you for you clarification.
    It's better to think about the health of the game, for many years to come, and support additional testers, rather that gatekeep your 'exclusive club status'.

    Now if you dont want to be reasonable, remember, they never said that A1 sales were final.

    You missed the entirety of the point. No one wants to be a gate keeper - my issue isnt with more people being in.
    I... legitimately don't understand OP's thought process, to be honest.

    It's obvious from the stream they said they'd consider reopening alpha 1 sales *later*.

    As in, after the people that have already purchased them get in.

    Did you really think they'd start selling alpha 1 access again before they got the people that already bought alpha access into alpha?

    Really?

    Really.

    Come on now.

    Actually considering the history of how he previously did things, yes - i very much believed that was a possibility.
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  • WiplasherWiplasher Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty
    edited August 1
    GemiiChan wrote: »

    You missed the entirety of the point. No one wants to be a gate keeper - my issue isnt with more people being in.

    Whats your point now? I misunderstood you originally when I read this when you first posted but now I am straight up confused.

    If all alpha backers are put into the test (Braver of Worlds and above). What is the problem with them selling more alpha 1 packs to get into the game to help test the system?

  • jubilumjubilum Member, Pioneer
    Maybe I'm missing something, I don't understand the desire to play a game that isn't finished. Sounds like a huge headache to me with bugs, things not working as intended, graphical glitches, etc. Oh well, must be those who don't value their time or those who enjoy pain.
  • LibidoLibido Member
    What are the cosmetic exclusives from said Alpha pack? That's all that matters to me!!!
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds
    I’m a Braver, here is the list of rewards at my level:

    Invite to Closed Alpha - Phase 1 (Earliest Access to Ashes!)
    Kickstarter Exclusive - Lifetime subscription to Ashes of Creation!!
    Access to Live launch head-start - 2 days early!
    Kickstarter Exclusive - Dawnbreaker Epic mount
    Kickstarter Exclusive - Character Royalty Costume
    Guild Name Reservation - 1 Name reserved
    Monster Tokens x 5 - Elite Tier
    Unique "Braver of Worlds" forum badge
    Unique in-game character title "Braver of Worlds"

    Notice that a number of things were KS exclusives. But not Alpha 1 access. I never pledged thinking that it would be the only way to get in Alpha testing, since that wasn’t what was promised. If Intrepid allows more people into Alpha then that is a very good thing because it means that the game is stable enough to allow for more concurrent users. It’s a sign of progress.

    Am I a little irked that I’m not actually getting first access to the game? Yes, that actually is a broken promise, just as the lifetime sub being exclusive to KS was a broken promise. Intrepid has definitely shown to not be 100% trustworthy (sorry Steven but it’s true, I still love you man) but it’s not enough for me to lose faith, not even close.
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  • GemiiChanGemiiChan Member, Braver of Worlds
    edited August 1
    Atama wrote: »
    I’m a Braver, here is the list of rewards at my level:

    Invite to Closed Alpha - Phase 1 (Earliest Access to Ashes!)
    Kickstarter Exclusive - Lifetime subscription to Ashes of Creation!!
    Access to Live launch head-start - 2 days early!
    Kickstarter Exclusive - Dawnbreaker Epic mount
    Kickstarter Exclusive - Character Royalty Costume
    Guild Name Reservation - 1 Name reserved
    Monster Tokens x 5 - Elite Tier
    Unique "Braver of Worlds" forum badge
    Unique in-game character title "Braver of Worlds"

    Notice that a number of things were KS exclusives. But not Alpha 1 access. I never pledged thinking that it would be the only way to get in Alpha testing, since that wasn’t what was promised. If Intrepid allows more people into Alpha then that is a very good thing because it means that the game is stable enough to allow for more concurrent users. It’s a sign of progress.

    Am I a little irked that I’m not actually getting first access to the game? Yes, that actually is a broken promise, just as the lifetime sub being exclusive to KS was a broken promise. Intrepid has definitely shown to not be 100% trustworthy (sorry Steven but it’s true, I still love you man) but it’s not enough for me to lose faith, not even close.

    I see your point. Mine is just holding Steven accountable to what he says, using FOMO as a selling point is just bad in general, but to continually utilize flowery language to justify your means just doesnt work for me.

    Why even announce that it may be returning when you havent even rolled it out to Leader of Men package users? It just doesnt make sense to me regardless of intent or considerations. Had this announcement come after all packs that received this invite got into Alpha 1 - I would have said nothing, side-eyed it, but would have said nothing.

    I understand that Alpha 1 isnt exclusive, although given the history exclusivity doesnt mean much - im all for letting people in. This same argument was used by the same people who wanted a Summer Sale shop and didnt even support it! I backed the game, I want its success but Im not about to standby and Fan-girl when I see things that need to be addressed.

    I do thank you for your input tho! :blush:
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  • NoaaniNoaani Member
    GemiiChan wrote: »
    I see your point. Mine is just holding Steven accountable to what he says
    Nothing Steven said when alpha 1 access was being removed from packs made me think that they wouldn't be back eventually.

    He was quite clear at the time that they didn't want more than 10k alpha 1 players at the time, but if their back end proves to be able to handle it, they may.

    He also never specifically said alpha 1 access would absolutely be back up for sale, either. He specifically gave the impression that it was a "maybe".

    If you thought he said something else, that is on you, not him.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member
    jubilum wrote: »
    Maybe I'm missing something, I don't understand the desire to play a game that isn't finished. Sounds like a huge headache to me with bugs, things not working as intended, graphical glitches, etc. Oh well, must be those who don't value their time or those who enjoy pain.

    Experiencing a game in a early state can be a frustrating, but rewarding experience. Yes, not everything works, but there is something enjoyable about seeing the game develop overtime. It is a experience in its own, that I actively seek out when a game looks like it is worth my time. I dealt with Arks bugs from day one only to repeat the process when Altas came out. I would do it all over again too!
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