Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two testing is currently taking place five days each week. More information about Phase II and Phase III testing schedule can be found here
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Alpha Two testing is currently taking place five days each week. More information about Phase II and Phase III testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
Maybe they could add some form of small money off of player kills, to balance what a PVE'r might get that way we could afford crafted armor. Or we willjust have to gather and pay for it, as long as it's reasonable it should be ok.
As was pointed out, you get ressources from killing players. Whether you turn those into items or sell them is up to you. Cash money drops don't seem to be much of a thing in the game anyway.
Arenas:
This will probably be where most players spend their time doing PVP. But there aren't any rewards in doing it, so players aren't going to be doing it regularly. Very quickly you'll see the game get split into very good PVP players and those who just hate it. Regular players aren't going to want to do arenas without some kind of incentive. And if that incentive is 6 months down the road, why bother?
Caravans:
I do see these as having potential for PVP players. There will be a few types of caravans, which might make them common enough to be objectives for PVP players/groups/guilds, but again I just don't see that happening. However, since they are basically mobile PVP hotspots, I could be wrong? Maybe we'll end up seeing large groups of PVP players banding together in order to ransack all the caravans they can find?
There are some incentives for caravans to occur (mayors establishing trade routes to extend their markets, quest related caravans), but I don't see players using personal caravans. Why run the risk? The more likely it is for a caravan to get attacked, the less likely it would be for players to attempt a personal caravan.
If there are too many PVP players, caravans just won't happen. But if the majority of players are PVE, then I see the following happening:
1. Caravans being so heavily guarded to where PVP players simply won't waste their time. At least, not players randomly coming together to PVP a caravan. Unless the PVP players are really good and coordinated, they simply won't win against a caravan with greater numbers.
2. PVE players never do caravans unless they absolutely have to, like for quests.
3. PVE players that are too scared to do PVP just running their goods the hard way, by actually running.
Since caravans are mobile PVP hotspots, it's hard for me to predict how these scenarios would play out. But like most games, the odds are usually skewed so heavily toward one sides favor that either A) It's simply too costly to get attacked, or
Node sieges:
There are HUGE hurdles to node sieges in order for them to be lucrative for the attackers, assuming it's even possible for them to be lucrative at all.
1. Sieges need a siege scroll in order to begin.
2. Acquiring a siege scroll scales in difficulty to the level of node being sieged.
3. "A substantial investment is required to attain the siege scroll.[14][2][10]"
4. "Sieging will require a similar amount of resources and time to what it took to develop the node being sieged.[15]"
5. Sieges can't be declared on a level 3 node for 21 days after reaching level 3 (higher nodes have no restriction).
6. After declaring a siege, there is a brief cooldown of several days before the siege begins.
7. Sieges can only occur during prime/peak traffic hours.
8. Nodes that have been successfully defended have a cooldown from when they can be sieged again.
9. "Sieging nodes will not be an easy task for the attackers. Cities and metropolises will have a considerable defensive advantage.[3]"
This sounds like a big kick in the nuts to anyone trying to initiate a siege. The barriers here are pretty high for the attackers. Not only will it require a large amount of gold and resources in order to start the siege, your rewards are also limited to what's stored in the city/node. On top of that, you have to share the loot with anyone who participated in the attack. But that's assuming you even win, because sieged nodes will have considerable defensive advantages.
I don't see PVP focused guilds fully funding their own sieges. I think if anything, big PVE guilds that run nodes might partner with a PVP guild and coordinate an attack, with the PVE guild funding it and a PVP guild executing the siege. That actually sounds pretty fun to be a part of. Or, maybe a guild big enough to have PVP players to fund it, and PVP players to execute it.
Can you imagine if dungeons / raids required the same amount of effort and imposed the same types of restrictions? I am aware that destroying a node has consequences for the players who rely on that node for housing, crafting, etc. But if you were a PVE player, how would you feel about the following?
1. The dungeon requires a scroll each time you enter it.
2. Obtaining a scroll will require a considerable amount of time and effort.
3. Nope! Wait! After you use the scroll, you have to wait a few days before the dungeon goes active.
4. Once you start the dungeon, it is expected to last for only 2 hours.
5. Dungeons only occur in peak traffic hours, so hopefully you're not a player who plays primarily at night or in the morning.
6. There's a multiweek cooldown if you fail the dungeon.
7. You are expected to pay up front an amount of gold/materials that you would be expected to loot throughout the course of the dungeon.
8. There's absolutely no loot in the dungeon, by the way, just mats/gold.
9. Anyone can join the dungeon, even though your group was the one who did the quests, used the scroll, and initiated it. Even though you did all the legwork, anyone can join up once it's active.
10. If successful, you are also expected to share all the loot with everyone else who just happened to show up and help.
Can you honestly say that there's enough of an incentive for players to even START a siege? Why go through all of the trouble? PVP players / guilds are going to be in the minority, I just don't see them jumping through all of these hoops. There might be some hardcore PVP guilds, or big enough PVE guilds that fund and maybe "hire" a PVP guild to help in the siege. But seriously, how common are those scenarios going to be?
Open world dungeons:
Now this could be a thing. But there would need to be strong incentive for players to openly attack another group. I don't see PVP groups going into dungeons JUST to attack other players. If anything, PVP groups would be in a dungeon... well... to do dungeon content. That kind of goes against what @Marzzo is wanting, though.
So why go through all of that trouble? Why group up to go to a dungeon just to attack other players? And if the PVP group is there just to attack other players, I think there are better places to do it. I could be entirely wrong here, but I think overall due to the corruption system, you just aren't going to see players flag and attack other groups with that level of risk. I think it COULD happen, I just don't see it being a thing, is all. Why risk it?
Again, I believe this is something that *could* happen, but I don't see it as being a regular thing, is all. I don't think it's going to be enough to satisfy players who want to do PVP content regularly.
Open world PVP:
Meh, probably not going to be a thing. It might occur between opposing PVP guilds, but overall I just don't see it being a thing. I'm just talking about PVP between players and only players, outside of sieges/caravans/etc. PVE players have practically nothing to fear due to the corruption system. Unless someone is just extremely ticked off, I don't see players risking getting corrupted in order to attack someone who is non-flagged. And when would you see another player flagged for combat outside of a caravan/siege or anything else? Maybe a node war or something? I don't know much about those yet.
Again, I'm not a big PVP player so I'm not sure why I'm advocating on their behalf. I just agree with @Marzzo, I think the game as it stands is heavily skewed toward PVE players and PVE content. PVP players are going to have to work extra hard to enjoy the game by ONLY doing PVP content. There are corruption penalties for killing non-flagged players (which I agree with), XP penalties when you die, even when flagged (which requires a player to do PVE content to get rid of), big hurdles to initiate sieges (which effectively locks out major PVP content), a lack of rewards for doing PVP content (forcing them to do PVE content to progress), and overall just a lack of incentive to do PVP content.
And I think it's important to highlight that without at least some PVP engagement, the game becomes just another "safe" MMO. I don't want to see the game become heavily PVP focused. However, the game overall would suffer if it doesn't properly entice PVP players to engage in the very PVP activities that the game is centered around and will potentially set itself apart from other MMOs.
So you can still deny use of the dungeon, but if you too late you can't ruin other people's attempt while they are actively fighting a boss. I'd like it to be like that so that you are more incentivized to go into a dungeon and not wait to gank another group instead.
Going into an empty dungeon is actually such a heavy risk that it isn't even worth doing it. Might as well just wait and kill the group that would have killed you for running in first.
Saying the game is PvE focused is a joke. There isn't even fair incentives to do PvE other than leveling.
U.S. East
Im a PvE player but its awesome seeing some badass thats very high rank in pvp and has unique items and other stuff, things that reflect their feats in the arena or in sieges, giving high status at a glimpse.
Its a roleplaying game and this kind of things are cool. Im not gonna cry and say "Ohh I can't get that in PvE because Im a casual and just harvest flowers from the mountain
No, I respect when people get hard earned stuff and its badass af.
You probably will get titles, achievements etc through pvp. You probably won't get equipment though. Maybe a skin.
The game allows PVP at anytime, but attacking green non-flagged players and killing them has HUGE costs. This game is NOT as heavily geared towards PVP as you can possibly be. If you honestly believe that, then I honestly believe you've never played on a full PVP server.
I might agree with you regarding dungeons and bosses though. As much as it would suck to have another group gank you while you are pulling a boss, there are still heavy penalties for attacking players who aren't flagged for PVP. I just don't see this type of situation happening, and if it did, it'd be extremely rare. Just like a Master Looter ninja'ing loot.
You said "There isn't even fair incentives to do PvE other than leveling." What about running dungeons for the best mats in the game? What about raids, or world bosses? Do you consider crafting PvE? Or gathering? I think we may have differing ideas on what's considered PVE content.
You only get rewarded for caravan PVP if you succeed. And you have no idea how much loot you might get, or exactly how strong the caravan and guards/players will be. In order to participate in caravan PVP, you have to flag for PVP, and that means if you die you accrue XP debt. The more you resurrect and try to continue attacking the caravan, the more XP debt you can accrue through multiple deaths. So yes, you absolutely can be punished for caravan PVP, but only if you lose
I just don't know if there will be enough incentive to engage in caravan PVP, or rather if the reward is really worth the risk. I could see myself doing it just for fun every now and then, but not on a regular basis. I'm terrible at PVP and would most likely just die too much and spend the next day or so working off my XP debt, haha.
With this said, what YOU "want" is equality irrelevant.
I say this because in your original post you repeat "I want... I want" again and again as if it was you who put down the $30Mil Private Investment in Steven's stead
Edit:
Your argument for PvP progression is quite invalid also. PvP is a driving force for PvE/world progression, so it is very rewarding (e.g. node sieges and Caravans). You cannot ignore PvP OR PvE in this game, as it is currently described. Perhaps you're talking about an arena-esque progression. Which I personally find that quite silly. It simply does not sync well with the overall game.
I wholly disagree with your notion.
It removes the player from the world. A player just sits in a town, using Battleground group finder all day long.
Also, without PvP, you cant progress in the game, so saying that PvE is favoured is wrong.
Without fighting for your interests (xp corner, material route, gathering route, raidboss, quest mobs, castle ownership, guild hall outside of nodes ownership, naval interests), you will get stomped.
I am against PvErs that say no to open world PvP. It makes pvp meaningless.
I am against PvPrs asking for PvP progression/special gear. It makes PvE meaningless.
PvX is the game that you apply your gear in all scenarios of combat.
PvX is the game that PvE is for progressing and creating wealth and PvP is for killing whoever wants to hinder you.
None can do without the other. None becomes boring or optional.
If you want to strictly do PvP, I must recommend: Play a PvP game - don't play a PvX game. I won't respond to the rest since it's only targeted to OP
Right now I just play BG matches in eso and it is SOOOOO BORING.
Even more boring is that games' "empty world" cyrodiil PvP zone.
I wish I wasnt banned on LoL.... much better PvP than anything ESO, or ffxiv or any other game without open world pvp (meaning stupid arenas) has to offer.
Steven has said that PVP is cumulative, so there is progression more often than once every six months. He used 1 month increments to describe the system, so after a month you get access to XYZ items/augments but if you continue PVPing over the course of 6 months, then at the end based on the cumulative total you might have access to ABC items/augments. The season is 6 months, that is not the same as saying you only get rewards from PVP every 6 months.
2. Offer unlockable or buyable recepies that award gear based on your PvP activities in Caravans, Arenas, sieges, wars and bounty hunting. These recepies should offer gear that is equal to the equivalent difficulty in PvE but have a cosmetic difference to show your PvP achivments.
No. PVP already gives you paths to attain high level crafted and pve gear, by stealing the materials needed to craft those items. Then just like PVE'ers you need to find someone to craft those items. I would not mind if PVP had a couple iconic pvp items to indicate your pvp prowess, alongside some cosmetics/augments/titles, but there is no reason PVP'ers need to be able to get geared directly via pvp. That would negate the need for you to participate in PVE ever.
It's still early to define if the current balancing between PvE, PvP and Crafting is good or bad because all we have are ideas and quotes, no real examples of systems in place.
With that said, I believe there's one point you're missing: there will be gear only obtainable from open world areas which means that that is not only PvE - it's got the potential of also being PvP, as players can/will/need to fight to farm these spots. The same could be said about Crafting, as you need to survive farm runs before crafting gear. It's a logical stretch, but you can't deny there are PvP aspects in these activities we consider to be PvE exclusively content. Maybe this is the balance Intrepid wants, which may or may not be good, but that's what the Beta will hopefully put to test, hence why it's still early to judge if the PvX already needs to be reworked.
I agree there should be more rewards for players who participate in consensual PvP (caravans, arenas, BGs, Sieges) in the form of shops that sell crafting recipes, rare materials, cosmetics, etc for people who excel in PvP, but then again there's no way to confirm nor deny if these things aren't already being implemented.
PvX means you have to do all the Player Vs "whatever" options to be successful. Either by yourself or in a group/guild. If you are some strict PvP only person then you better have friends that are going to help you with gear. Probably while you protect them from getting ganked.
That is obviously what is intended and as someone that has played an MMO designed that way, let me just say it works wonderfully.
If you want to play a Massively Multiplayer Online game all by yourself then expect to have less opportunity. Maybe go play one of those other MMOs that gave into demands from such players. This game clearly isn't made for everyone and that is what will make it great.
Personally I prefer a game that heavily encourages teamwork and the need to be social to thrive.
Preferring killing other players over killing mobs doesn't make you better than people that enjoy something less stressful. Or vice versa.
If you only care about PvP why play this game? If you only care about PvE why play this game?
Honestly, everyone should just assume they will have to PvP AND PvE. Just embrace that fact and enjoy it.
Join a guild with a lot of great people that you become friends with and create some long-lasting memories.
Then Lineage 2 getting murdered by a random archer in the middle of a town. Took like 30 players to kill the bastard. He one shotted most of them though.
PvP has the opportunity to get exploited far more than it does to add to the game. It's only PvP around the same level that is interesting. I hope they keep the lower level newbs in mind when they think of corruption.
U.S. East
All of the best spots and high tier dungeons / raids are going to be highly contested with PvP, and those who only want to do PvE are just going to be shit out of luck, it will be impossible to play this game purely PvE, because even the PvE content promotes PvP and competition.
I don't believe that your argument that players can even play this game as purely PvE is entirely accurate, if a purely PvE guild runs into a dungeon and tries to rush down a boss, it is more then likely another group wants that loot as well, and they will wipe the enemy group for those resources / loot.
You will not be able to clear difficult content in this game unless you either A: Hire a merc guild to stand in front of the dungeon door and kill anyone who wants to come in, or B: are prepared to fight competition for the dungeon / raid loot.
That condition is that if you take a caravan from a player, they keep half the materials.
The reason for this is simple - PvE creates new progression - PvP takes progression from one player and moves it to another. Even if PvP had it's own reward structure, the bulk of rewards coming from PvP would be those that you are taking from other players.
If PvP were to turn in to an in game activity where you both took progression from other players as well as generated your own new progression, it seems only fair that PvE should be able to also generate new progression and also take progression from others - this is represented by players keeping half of the materials if a caravan is taken over.
Personally, I prefer the idea that PvE generates progression and PvP redistributes it.
nice try
Your comment is pretty irrelevant. I don't think anyone is saying they ONLY want to play PvP. I know I never said that... I stated that players who strictly play PvP will have the absolute hardest time.... Which is facts, anyone who disregards pve will be at a disadvantage in this game obviously... I'm just backing his comments that , some PvP features in this game aren't quite rewarding ☺️
How having PvP gear and titles makes PvE meaningless???? That makes no sense at all.
In WoW when you are very high PvP rank you get the Grand Marshal's Claymore, a special sword for PvP gods, and armor sets, that doesnt make the PvE meanigless, it doesnt affect the other part at ALL. I don't even play wow and im a PvE player. But not having PvP progression in some gear, titles or mounts is missing a big part of any MMO. Your coment makes no sense at all.
PvP progression does NOT affect PvE. Don't be the guy that cries because you can't get the items that a hardcore PvPer will get cause of their hard work, don't be that guy.
Ohhh we have a funny guy!! nice!! Im not even a wow player, but all you boomers just hating hard on a great game. I think wow has great raids, PvE progression and itemization, great map and good PvP too. Stop hating and your coment is just high tier cringe, it's very clear that you just want to cancel it. Behave like a grown person I think you are.
If you get your progression from PvP, as a PvPr, you have no reason to PvE. It becomes optional.
If you cannot be attacked in the open world as a PvEr, PvP becomes optional, meaningless.
That is why I am against PvP progression/rewards/gear, just as I am against no PvP in the open world.
I am not sure why you got confused, or what does wow have to do with anything I said.
I see PVP players in the same situation and I also see PVE players in the same situation. PVErs will not go out and obtain everything they need for dungeons and world bosses. Will they receive some drops? Of course. But they will be reliant on crafters and PVP players as well.
I would also point out the PVP should not be though as purely arena based or even node combat based. Yes that will be a big part. But if the vision comes together as planned PVP players should also be finding combat and options out in the open world. Which would also open you up to drops.
I do think it would be fair to add drops to PVP where appropriate. Caravans should give you materials they are transporting and sieges should also provide some sort of spoils.
Im not saying ALL progression should be PvP, im not saying you can get all you need in the game by PvP. Im just saying PvPers should be able to obtain some cool things for being good at PvP. I want the majority of gear and progression to be in PvE, I like raids and dungeons, I like quests. Im a PvE player.
But in what world having PvP incentives destroys the game??? It makes no sense at all.
Every person can lose their housing (and much more) if they lose during a node attack. As a pvp player, I agree and would love more content for pvp but agree with the current balance that is shifted more in favor of pve. It draws more importance to the pvp that remains in game. My reward has always been the pvp in its self.
On your last comment on pvp cosmetics will make the pvp community happier I 100% agree. That being said I do not want it based on X number of kills. That is just a grind fest and focuses on the kill and not the cause. Each act of pvp should have a recommendation. Defense of a caravan is rewarded but corrupted attacking it doesn't. However many kills per player on each side doesn't matter. This could be done for each pvp scenario.