The game needs to be balance around that, the multiboxing can abuse some bugs or features to obtain advantages that will ruin a little bit the game.
If the game is fun to play with just 1 character there will be low chance that someone goes into multiboxing. If that happens the game need to be prepared. In wow you can get more resources for no reasons, just prevent that. You cannot get 5 drops from a single object.
Prevent bots to play the easy farming game, for example .. a resource shouldn't appear everytime in the same spot. Don't implement aoe looting or auto looting , etc.
PvP ... introduce some sort of counterplay, where into a fight of 1 vs 5 the strategy matters more, adding advantage and disadvanteges to spells. For example , you can get frost resistence but take more damage from fire, this way a multiboxing player cannot win even with 5 or more people, becouse he will use every time the same spell or similar one. One person cannot play for 5 ones. Doing that a legit 5 vs 1 will remain effective , unless they are 5 mages and they are so bad to use the same spells.
This will introduce more strategy and fun into the game, more variety and balance.
The problem is not the Multibox .. but the game that makes him viable.
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Undead CanuckMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
The question is would you allow a software that makes multiple accounts cast spells or use ability's at ones, For example on one character you press button 1 it will then press button 1 on all character's that the multi boxer is using.
Usually serious multi boxers will not be alt tabbing through their characters they will want to use software like ISBoxer.
If you don't want people to use software like this then multi boxing is already a no go, If it is something you do not mind then it's down to how much of an advantage you would accept one player to have in PVP and PVE content.
Have you not read any of the other posts? It has been said many times that botting (using software or hardware to multiply key or mouse presses) is not multiboxing and is already been stated to be against the ToS.
Multiboxing is using multiple computers with each being separately controlled by a person. No scripts, no hardware hacks, no software hacks, no botting.
Ok, so I will pay for multiple accounts and place them in different cities to stall and look up good deals every hour, getting rich without having to travel from city to city. My other account is my main account and I will go out hunting and leveling. At the end of the day I will visit all my alts with my main to fill my pockets and provide them with the goods I found whilst hunting to put up for sale.
Say hello to cities filled with stalling characters but void of life...
This smells like P2W and that is why I am against multi-boxing.
There is indeed the issue of multiple people from the same household playing from the same IP. But there must be ways to solve that for sure?
Ok, so I will pay for multiple accounts and place them in different cities to stall and look up good deals every hour, getting rich without having to travel from city to city. My other account is my main account and I will go out hunting and leveling. At the end of the day I will visit all my alts with my main to fill my pockets and provide them with the goods I found whilst hunting to put up for sale.
Say hello to cities filled with stalling characters but void of life...
This smells like P2W and that is why I am against multi-boxing.
There is indeed the issue of multiple people from the same household playing from the same IP. But there must be ways to solve that for sure?
So.......you are going to have multiple accounts with stall, ok, great! You use your main for hunting and lvling, great! Now, can you please enlighten me and tell me how you gonna fill lets say you have 3-4 other accounts, so how you gonna fill 3-4 stalls of items? Also how do you mean "visit all your alts"? Teleport to 3-4 account locations?^^
The question is would you allow a software that makes multiple accounts cast spells or use ability's at ones, For example on one character you press button 1 it will then press button 1 on all character's that the multi boxer is using.
Usually serious multi boxers will not be alt tabbing through their characters they will want to use software like ISBoxer.
If you don't want people to use software like this then multi boxing is already a no go, If it is something you do not mind then it's down to how much of an advantage you would accept one player to have in PVP and PVE content.
Maybe you need to educate yourself what is mulitbox and what is cheating? -.-
Ok, so I will pay for multiple accounts and place them in different cities to stall and look up good deals every hour, getting rich without having to travel from city to city. My other account is my main account and I will go out hunting and leveling. At the end of the day I will visit all my alts with my main to fill my pockets and provide them with the goods I found whilst hunting to put up for sale.
Say hello to cities filled with stalling characters but void of life...
This smells like P2W and that is why I am against multi-boxing.
There is indeed the issue of multiple people from the same household playing from the same IP. But there must be ways to solve that for sure?
So.......you are going to have multiple accounts with stall, ok, great! You use your main for hunting and lvling, great! Now, can you please enlighten me and tell me how you gonna fill lets say you have 3-4 other accounts, so how you gonna fill 3-4 stalls of items? Also how do you mean "visit all your alts"? Teleport to 3-4 account locations?^^
The question is would you allow a software that makes multiple accounts cast spells or use ability's at ones, For example on one character you press button 1 it will then press button 1 on all character's that the multi boxer is using.
Usually serious multi boxers will not be alt tabbing through their characters they will want to use software like ISBoxer.
If you don't want people to use software like this then multi boxing is already a no go, If it is something you do not mind then it's down to how much of an advantage you would accept one player to have in PVP and PVE content.
Maybe you need to educate yourself what is mulitbox and what is cheating? -.-
I would fill those stalls by scanning the local market; buying cheap and selling expensive. That way I could fill my stall easily. I would only go and collect the money when I am satisfied with the amount.
According to Wikipedia: Multi-boxing or multiboxing refers to playing as multiple separate characters concurrently in an MMORPG.
The software you are referring to is yet another problem that comes with the issue of having multiple separate characters concurrently playing. Of course I am also against that software!
I would fill those stalls by scanning the local market; buying cheap and selling expensive. That way I could fill my stall easily. I would only go and collect the money when I am satisfied with the amount.
According to Wikipedia: Multi-boxing or multiboxing refers to playing as multiple separate characters concurrently in an MMORPG.
The software you are referring to is yet another problem that comes with the issue of having multiple separate characters concurrently playing. Of course I am also against that software!
The main thing is, while you could indeed use alts to buy goods in multiple cities, you would still have to move all of those goods around manually. You can't use the Family summon ability to instantly teleport those types of things around.
So, while you could save a bit of time from having to log on/off alts to check each market, and you would have a greater overall picture of various markets as a whole, you still have to interact with the other game systems (i.e. caravans) in a normal way to move said goods around, so you could actively make money by selling them in other places.
You would also need to keep a decent amount of money on all of those alts constantly to do this. It is possible that this aspect could be done easily through Family summons, though it would still mean time and effort spent on your part to move funds around.
Also, quite honestly, due to the way the auction houses are all going to be spread out, I would hazard a guess that there will likely be dedicated trading guilds forming in this game. EVE Online has a similar system, where each station is its own trading hub, and while there are skills to buy/sell remotely to an extent, there are still plenty of groups that play solely to trade goods around and make money, or to freight goods around for other people and make money. I see no reason guilds like this wouldn't exist in AoC, and they'd make the impact of an individual trying to do this far smaller than it otherwise might be.
@Aeri
Once again you got holes in your bucket. You said the facts are flawed. This is what I was talking about when I said rose colored glasses.
I said,
FACT 1)
Multiboxing is 1 person controlling multiple accounts at the same time, on one or many computers, whether by superhuman abilities, genetic mutation that gave you 8 arms and 40 fingers or having hardware and software to help you control all of them at the same time.
Botting is a program that is designed to control a character in game completely independent of, or with minimal input from, a humans interaction to preform a set goal.
You said,
I don't know what you are getting at here.
Multi-boxing and botting are two completely separate subjects. Just because you multi-box doesn't mean you are botting. Just because you are botting does not mean you are multi-boxing.
Multi-boxing can be accomplished entirely without any form of assistance in regards to hardware or software.
This "fact" is flawed.
1) You literally AGREED with what I said.
2) You failed to give any examples of how your answer is different than mine.
3) The fact is not flawed. It is true to what I wrote. If you disagree just give me a definition that is fact driven and explain the differences.
4) I never said multiboxing and botting were the same subject. I threw that in because a lot of people seem to not understand the difference.
Funny stuff here also.
I said,
FACT 2)
Pay To Win IS paying real money to the company providing the content to gain an in game advantage over other people.
Buying extra equipment, better internet or getting anything from a third party source is NOT pay to win. Yes you can still gain an advantage but that is not controlled by the content provider and only the most obtuse would try to consider that a pay to win advantage.
You said,
"The problem with you trying to boil the definition of pay-2-win down this far, is that you start running into the issues of being practical. It is the same argument as not allowing people to have multiple accounts in the first place."
"This definition also fails to take into account any expenditure of effort. When you buy something that is normally considered pay-2-win, it is considered such because it gives you an advantage with no additional effort required."
"Boiling the definition of pay-2-win down this far"
There is no boiling. Pay to win is an easy definition that the vast majority understand. Some people though just don't have the mental capacity to grasp the obvious. See FACT 2.
As far as you saying "It is the same argument as not allowing people to have multiple accounts in the first place."
Nope. I literally addressed this. I said if someone had 2 accounts but they couldn't have characters on the same realm and couldn't trade items back and forth then that would be fine. No account interaction. At that point it would be impossible for them to mutlibox. Having multiple accounts is not the same as multiboxing. Please see FACT 1.
This gem here actually made me chuckle, "This definition also fails to take into account any expenditure of effort. When you buy something that is normally considered pay-2-win, it is considered such because it gives you an advantage with no additional effort required."
You're just trying to troll right? The amount of effort people expend is strictly their issue. Just because you have to put in additional effort does not mean you do not have an advantage available to you. Usually it just means you aren't efficient.
You,
"If I am following the guidelines set by Intrepid, and thus am not using third-party tools to control both characters at once, what is the effective, practical difference between one person having multiple computers and multiple accounts, and a family having multiple computers and multiple accounts?"
Easy, a family doesn't meet the requirements of FACT 1.
You,
"If it requires 200% of the effort to run two accounts as I do running one account, do I actually have any advantages?"
Yes you do. Just because you are failing to capitalize on the advantages does not mean they do not exist.
You,
"I could make the argument that anytime anyone is playing the game in close proximity to another person, that would just as pay-2-win as multi-boxing, as you consider it - in fact, those people would have MORE of an advantage, because they could take two wholly separate actions at the exact same time, and they would be able to focus the entirety of their attention on their single characters."
False. This wouldn't be considered multiboxing because these people in this example would fail to meet the criteria of FACT 1.
False. This wouldn't be considered pay to win because these people in this example would fail to meet the criteria of FACT 2.
Also don't put words in my mouth. I do not consider that statement to be correct.
You,
"I see absolutely no reason that multi-boxing using Intrepid's rules - multiple computers, and no automation/key broadcasting - should be considered any different than a family playing together."
The first part meets the criteria of FACT 2.
A family playing together does not meet the criteria of FACT 1.
You,
"That is why I have said, time and time again, that many of the "advantages" people bring up in regards to multi-boxing are not specific to multi-boxing itself, but rather problems with having multiple accounts - something that is not realistically practical to stop."
Multiboxing and just having multiple accounts are very different.
Multiboxing is FACT 1.
This is past the point of ludicrous. I am literally copy/pasting references to FACT 1 or FACT 2 with most of my answers with minor adjustments to verbiage. I read the rest of your statement and at every turn, every example, you gave an irrelevant or an apples to oranges comparison trying to show how multiboxing isn't an advantage or pay to win. This ridiculous idea you have that somehow a family playing together should qualify as something equal to a multiboxer is just that, ridiculous. People will play and work together but they will not do it constantly every second they are on which is where the multiboxer has the advantage. The advantages that people will get from working with friends and family is the whole premise of an MMO, not multiboxing. Also, just because you can't leverage the advantage that multiboxing would give you to be able to be faster at something or in a stronger position than a single player doesn't mean other people can't. You also can't seem to phathom the difference/advantage multiboxing has vs having multiple accounts that never interact between each other.
Your problem is you can't compare apples to apples. You slant every argument, you dismiss important info and focus on things that do not apply. When things are pointed out to you, instead of looking at it with an objective eye and growing from the situation, you go straight to coming up with some other irrelevant garbage and go "don't pay any attention to that, look over here, shiny". It's painfully obvious that you want mulitboxing in the game and are very willing to give out skewed examples to suit your desires.
Multiboxing is a problem in every game it is in. Pay to win is a disease that should be fought at every turn.
You either don't allow multi boxing at all, or you don't restrict it.
There will be people with advantage if you restrict multi boxing over people who don't have a secondary pc or don't know how to install a program.
Multi-boxing devalues the effort people put in to level their characters, even if scripting/3rd party software etc. isn't being used. IF a person can sign into multiple accounts and go on follow in the same party and have the
secondary accounts gain XP while they play their primary account, that makes a joke of the effort people who level each character individually have made. I'm not sure how one would prevent this without a lot of effort though, but I suspect that making it a bannable offence would help discourage a lot of people from using it.
Multi-boxing devalues the effort people put in to level their characters, even if scripting/3rd party software etc. isn't being used. IF a person can sign into multiple accounts and go on follow in the same party and have the
secondary accounts gain XP while they play their primary account, that makes a joke of the effort people who level each character individually have made. I'm not sure how one would prevent this without a lot of effort though, but I suspect that making it a bannable offence would help discourage a lot of people from using it.
Woooooot?
You cant just say something like that, imagine your friends bought game after idk... 2 months, how can you help them? Would you come here and say, listen interpid my friends bought game and i dont want to help them because it makes my lvling effort useless? Wtf?
Some games wich allows multibox:
Age of Conan
Aion
Anarchy Online
City of Heroes
City of Villains
Dungeons and Dragons Online
EVE Online
Lord of the Rings Online
Heroes of Newerth
EverQuest
EverQuest II
Lineage
Lineage II
Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
Rakion Latin-Internacional
Warhammer Online
World of Warcraft
The Chronicles of Spellborn
Rift
If multibox is so bad, why those games above allow it?
Multi-boxing devalues the effort people put in to level their characters, even if scripting/3rd party software etc. isn't being used. IF a person can sign into multiple accounts and go on follow in the same party and have the
secondary accounts gain XP while they play their primary account, that makes a joke of the effort people who level each character individually have made. I'm not sure how one would prevent this without a lot of effort though, but I suspect that making it a bannable offence would help discourage a lot of people from using it.
Woooooot?
You cant just say something like that, imagine your friends bought game after idk... 2 months, how can you help them? Would you come here and say, listen interpid my friends bought game and i dont want to help them because it makes my lvling effort useless? Wtf?
Some games wich allows multibox:
Age of Conan
Aion
Anarchy Online
City of Heroes
City of Villains
Dungeons and Dragons Online
EVE Online
Lord of the Rings Online
Heroes of Newerth
EverQuest
EverQuest II
Lineage
Lineage II
Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
Rakion Latin-Internacional
Warhammer Online
World of Warcraft
The Chronicles of Spellborn
Rift
If multibox is so bad, why those games above allow it?
Could you elaborate on this? I'm not making the connection you are trying to establish between multiboxing, someone starting a game a couple months late and friends not wanting to help someone level up.
To your game reference; They allow multiboxing because it's far easier to allow than it is to try and fight it and they just don't care about the player base. Simple as that.
I've always been against multi-boxing because the way I've seen it used. Primarily to mow through trash mobs much faster. In doing so the player effectively destroys the economy or gains advantages towards getting better loot to sell on top of the trash loot. They balloon the economy with their play style and can corner the market with their enhanced resources a.k.a gold stack for purchasing power.
Multi-boxing devalues the effort people put in to level their characters, even if scripting/3rd party software etc. isn't being used. IF a person can sign into multiple accounts and go on follow in the same party and have the
secondary accounts gain XP while they play their primary account, that makes a joke of the effort people who level each character individually have made. I'm not sure how one would prevent this without a lot of effort though, but I suspect that making it a bannable offence would help discourage a lot of people from using it.
Woooooot?
You cant just say something like that, imagine your friends bought game after idk... 2 months, how can you help them? Would you come here and say, listen interpid my friends bought game and i dont want to help them because it makes my lvling effort useless? Wtf?
Some games wich allows multibox:
Age of Conan
Aion
Anarchy Online
City of Heroes
City of Villains
Dungeons and Dragons Online
EVE Online
Lord of the Rings Online
Heroes of Newerth
EverQuest
EverQuest II
Lineage
Lineage II
Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
Rakion Latin-Internacional
Warhammer Online
World of Warcraft
The Chronicles of Spellborn
Rift
If multibox is so bad, why those games above allow it?
Could you elaborate on this? I'm not making the connection you are trying to establish between multiboxing, someone starting a game a couple months late and friends not wanting to help someone level up.
I was responding to Malarith, his quote:
IF a person can sign into multiple accounts and go on follow in the same party and have the
secondary accounts gain XP while they play their primary account, that makes a joke of the effort people who level each character individually have made.
To your game reference; They allow multiboxing because it's far easier to allow than it is to try and fight it and they just don't care about the player base. Simple as that.
Wait! So all games above are against cheats, they ban cheaters, but they allow multibox, maybe and just maybe they dont consider multibox as cheat? Also why would they spend millions and millions of dollars making game and not care about the player base?
Multi-boxing devalues the effort people put in to level their characters, even if scripting/3rd party software etc. isn't being used. IF a person can sign into multiple accounts and go on follow in the same party and have the
secondary accounts gain XP while they play their primary account, that makes a joke of the effort people who level each character individually have made. I'm not sure how one would prevent this without a lot of effort though, but I suspect that making it a bannable offence would help discourage a lot of people from using it.
Woooooot?
You cant just say something like that, imagine your friends bought game after idk... 2 months, how can you help them? Would you come here and say, listen interpid my friends bought game and i dont want to help them because it makes my lvling effort useless? Wtf?
Some games wich allows multibox:
Age of Conan
Aion
Anarchy Online
City of Heroes
City of Villains
Dungeons and Dragons Online
EVE Online
Lord of the Rings Online
Heroes of Newerth
EverQuest
EverQuest II
Lineage
Lineage II
Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
Rakion Latin-Internacional
Warhammer Online
World of Warcraft
The Chronicles of Spellborn
Rift
If multibox is so bad, why those games above allow it?
Could you elaborate on this? I'm not making the connection you are trying to establish between multiboxing, someone starting a game a couple months late and friends not wanting to help someone level up.
I was responding to Malarith, his quote:
IF a person can sign into multiple accounts and go on follow in the same party and have the
secondary accounts gain XP while they play their primary account, that makes a joke of the effort people who level each character individually have made.
To your game reference; They allow multiboxing because it's far easier to allow than it is to try and fight it and they just don't care about the player base. Simple as that.
Wait! So all games above are against cheats, they ban cheaters, but they allow multibox, maybe and just maybe they dont consider multibox as cheat? Also why would they spend millions and millions of dollars making game and not care about the player base?
True the games listed are against cheating and they ban cheating but then you have to take into account, what is considered cheating by their rules? If they deem multiboxing is not cheating then it's not cheating and you wont get banned for it. If they say buying gold outside of the game is ok or buying premade max level characters decked out in the best gear possible is ok, well, you wont get banned for that either even though most people would consider that cheating. That doesn't mean that the person multiboxing or buying a premade character doesn't have a distinct advantage. "Cheating" is completely subjective to each individual. It falls into the category of opinion unless there are well defined rules specifically stating what is and is not cheating.
Gaining an advantage over another player because you paid for it isn't a matter of opinion or perspective. It's a factual advantage that can be quantified and therefor can be easily defined in the rules. Which way the rules sway is the perspective and that's what this thread is trying to define.
As far as "Also why would they spend millions and millions of dollars making game and not care about the player base?"
The best answer I ever heard was "Multiboxing would be banned if Blizzard cared about their games more than filling their pocket book and buying a fourth yacht."
Obviously that was written about Blizzard but I think it fits fairly well across the gaming landscape. If microtransactions did not exist and ALL content for the game was in the game, not sold as cosmetics and other garbage like that, you would a see better quality of games. Currently most games are very sloppy but their profit margins are propped up by the in game stores. Maybe if people refused to buy crap from the in game stores and stopped paying for half-assed games, we'd get better quality games that are fully fleshed out with all the cosmetics in the game at no extra charge. Just something to think about people.
As long as players who are abusing their multi-boxing privileges are banned... like ruining the market by being able to gather mats at X rate faster than everyone else or abusing it in PVP, etc. People will also be multi-boxing to level and sell accounts, not sure how Intrepid feels about this.
No matter how good the game is, when you see a large group of a multi-boxers accounts that's something that will ruin the game for certain people. Same as P2W ruins games.
(I'd prefer no multi-boxing allowed at all but good luck with that) I've played MMO's for half my life and even games that restrict multi-boxers still manage to have them lurking in the shadows.
So, what exactly are people envisioning where a person multiboxes from different computers without any assisting software? I mean I've had the occasional healer on auto-follow while out soloing in the world to keep me alive as a class without sustain and that doesn't feel to game breaking. Is that the extent of multiboxing that is leading the votes and aligns with the current thoughts? That seems reasonable. I definitely don't think 15-man gank squads all in perfect sync is health or leads to the community the game encourages.
Thing is even if you have 100 accounts, you cant use them all, even if you have 3 accounts it is pain in the a$$ to use them. I dont think people with 3pc+ will use (if they want) more then 2 accounts because there is "no" teleport, you cant simply do some things like you can in other games.
So, what exactly are people envisioning where a person multiboxes from different computers without any assisting software? I mean I've had the occasional healer on auto-follow while out soloing in the world to keep me alive as a class without sustain and that doesn't feel to game breaking. Is that the extent of multiboxing that is leading the votes and aligns with the current thoughts? That seems reasonable. I definitely don't think 15-man gank squads all in perfect sync is health or leads to the community the game encourages.
Simply put, if people are allowed to do it then people will abuse it. If it is banned right from the start it sets a precedent that most people will avoid. The idea of not using assisting software doesn't mean anything for people that understand how to circumvent the detection systems.
Mass farming, auction house manipulation, ganking, teleportation, land ownership, being in 2 places at once, bag space/ carry capacity are just a few ways to use multiboxing to your advantage. If the absolute most you could do with multiboxing was having a healer on follow to help you survive I don't think anyone would care. The facts of how multiboxing has been used in other games is what most people don't like.
The other thing people don't is when the playing field isn't even for all.
Thing is even if you have 100 accounts, you cant use them all, even if you have 3 accounts it is pain in the a$$ to use them. I dont think people with 3pc+ will use (if they want) more then 2 accounts because there is "no" teleport, you cant simply do some things like you can in other games.
What do you mean there is no teleport?
You are right it is a pain in the ass to use more than 2 or 3 computers the way Intrepid Studios is intending. Problem is in reality people will do research and find there are ways to side step the rules without being caught, so why wouldn't they? It's not the honest player people have a problem with. It's the ones that disrespect the rules and others to gain an advantage and what is multiboxing if not a very clear, distinct advantage?
Current Intrepid stance - Players are allowed to own multiple accounts, but may not launch multiple game clients from the same computer. Players may not use any software to automate character actions or mimic keystrokes.
If that is true and enforced then there will be no multi boxing and it’s silly for them to even say they support multi boxing ....
because all multi boxers besides hardware boxers (which are super super rare these days because of the equipment cost and it’s not as efficient as using inner space etc) use one PC ... otherwise it’s not fun at all
The problem that bothers me is how many gamers still think multiboxers are hackers/cheaters/Chinese gold farmers... when boxers are just people that enjoy the added fun of not needing to wait around lfg.. or want to try something for a sense of accomplishment.
Botting is not boxing .... botting for cheating purposes requires one pc and is virtually undetected except with human eyes and reporting and even then innocents can be reported ... so the real cheaters ( botters ) are not even effected by one account per pc rules ...
I no longer multi box and prolly never will again ... but the community of boxers are not cheaters ... botters are cheaters ...
At least inform yourselves of differences before freaking out and focus on how to curb botting in the industry not boxers
If everyone had the resources to multibox they would. There is no reason for me to not multibox if I had the money to spend on it, it provides an advantage to players who are able to commit the money to this game. If I want to spend my own money on this game then it should be on cosmetics or in-game sub time, not toward re-buying a sub to provide an advantage for my own personal use. Even though it is somewhat convoluted, this is a P2W system and does hurt the integrity of the game. Solo players who don't have extra money to spend on the game are especially hurt by multiboxing. The only good to multiboxing I see is that if you are desperate to preform better solo and you have the money, you can achieve that, but by that same coin you take away part of the social aspect of the mmo.
Umm I am retired at 48 having sold my companies ... I have very little worries about monies ... I have multi boxed ... and it’s purpose is not advantage ... most times it’s to avoid lfg and wasting time you have to game ... I could multi Box any games I play without a second thought to costs ... but have not Since I retired because I have the time to form groups and play for longer periods ... so your entire premise is debunked
On top of that most people could afford another 15 dollars a month to box a second account if they wanted you act as if most gamers are broke
Multi boxing is not the most fun way to play ... it just saves a heck of a lot of time from not hoping to be able to put a group together in a limited amount of gaming time ... or it’s just fun to piddle around doing what you want without worrying about wasting others time or hearing them complain you are not a meta bui,d
If everyone had the resources to multibox they would. There is no reason for me to not multibox if I had the money to spend on it, it provides an advantage to players who are able to commit the money to this game. If I want to spend my own money on this game then it should be on cosmetics or in-game sub time, not toward re-buying a sub to provide an advantage for my own personal use. Even though it is somewhat convoluted, this is a P2W system and does hurt the integrity of the game. Solo players who don't have extra money to spend on the game are especially hurt by multiboxing. The only good to multiboxing I see is that if you are desperate to preform better solo and you have the money, you can achieve that, but by that same coin you take away part of the social aspect of the mmo.
Umm I am retired at 48 having sold my companies ... I have very little worries about monies ... I have multi boxed ... and it’s purpose is not advantage ... most times it’s to avoid lfg and wasting time you have to game ... I could multi Box any games I play without a second thought to costs ... but have not Since I retired because I have the time to form groups and play for longer periods ... so your entire premise is debunked
On top of that most people could afford another 15 dollars a month to box a second account if they wanted you act as if most gamers are broke
Multi boxing is not the most fun way to play ... it just saves a heck of a lot of time from not hoping to be able to put a group together in a limited amount of gaming time ... or it’s just fun to piddle around doing what you want without worrying about wasting others time or hearing them complain you are not a meta bui,d
Just an observation.
You stated " I have multi boxed ... and it’s purpose is not advantage ... most times it’s to avoid lfg"
Umm, wouldn't the ability to run a dungeon when you want and not have to go through lfg to get a group be an advantage? Also if this game isn't going to have lfg wouldn't multiboxing be that much more of an advantage?
Also "Multi boxing is not the most fun way to play" then you say "or it’s just fun to piddle around doing what you want"
So it is or is not fun?
During my time multiboxing I found it pretty fun and to be a huge advantage. What any one person could do, I could do considerably faster or far more profitable. As far as fun goes, it's been my experience when someone is doing something voluntarily in a leisure activity that isn't fun, they do not continue to do it. I found multiboxing fun and so did the other people I knew that continued doing it. Once it stopped being fun I don't know anyone personally that kept doing it.
I do agree with you when you said "it just saves a heck of a lot of time".
Personally I am satisfied with either no multi-boxing or multi-boxing without the use of software and on different pc's, the player is paying multiple subscriptions while only being able to really play 1 character at a time. This would help with saving time to level or gear up alts x amount of times and just paying the extra monthly fee.
The whole issue for me is when the multi-boxer user has multiple clients open and uses software to play all characters at once, in that case the player could just run around and one shot almost everyone he comes across or possibly take over objectives like caravans in an instant.
If everyone had the resources to multibox they would. There is no reason for me to not multibox if I had the money to spend on it, it provides an advantage to players who are able to commit the money to this game. If I want to spend my own money on this game then it should be on cosmetics or in-game sub time, not toward re-buying a sub to provide an advantage for my own personal use. Even though it is somewhat convoluted, this is a P2W system and does hurt the integrity of the game. Solo players who don't have extra money to spend on the game are especially hurt by multiboxing. The only good to multiboxing I see is that if you are desperate to preform better solo and you have the money, you can achieve that, but by that same coin you take away part of the social aspect of the mmo.
Umm I am retired at 48 having sold my companies ... I have very little worries about monies ... I have multi boxed ... and it’s purpose is not advantage ... most times it’s to avoid lfg and wasting time you have to game ... I could multi Box any games I play without a second thought to costs ... but have not Since I retired because I have the time to form groups and play for longer periods ... so your entire premise is debunked
On top of that most people could afford another 15 dollars a month to box a second account if they wanted you act as if most gamers are broke
Multi boxing is not the most fun way to play ... it just saves a heck of a lot of time from not hoping to be able to put a group together in a limited amount of gaming time ... or it’s just fun to piddle around doing what you want without worrying about wasting others time or hearing them complain you are not a meta bui,d
Just an observation.
You stated " I have multi boxed ... and it’s purpose is not advantage ... most times it’s to avoid lfg"
Umm, wouldn't the ability to run a dungeon when you want and not have to go through lfg to get a group be an advantage?I DISAGREE COMPLETELY WITH YOU ... RUNNING A DUNGEON WAY WAY SLOWER THAN A REAL GROUP IS FINE IF YOU CANT GET A FULL GROUP AND ENJOY THE CONTENT WITH OTHERS ... THATS MY OPINION
Also if this game isn't going to have lfg wouldn't multiboxing be that much more of an advantage? I DO NOT SEE HOW YOU THINKS ITS AN ADVANTAGE TO NOT GET TOMRUN WITH REAL PEOPLE AND ENJOY IT WITH OTHERS ... RUNNING A DUNGEON IS INFINITELY MORE FUNNWITH OTHERS IN GROUP CHAT.
Also "Multi boxing is not the most fun way to play" then you say "or it’s just fun to piddle around doing what you want"
So it is or is not fun? I STAND BY THAT ... ITS NOT A CONTRIDICTION LIKE YOUR TRYING TO INSINUATE... IMHO THE MIST FUN WAY TOMOLAY AN MMOMIS WITH A FULL GROUP,OR RAID OR OTHER REAL LIFE PEOPLE ... SOMETIMES LATE AT NIGHTNORMOFF DAYS FROM YOUR REGULAR GROUP,ITS MORE FUN THAN WATCHING TV OR MOWING A YARD TO RUNNAROUND THENGAME PIDDLING WITH YIUR MULTIBOX SETUP NOT BOTHERING ANYONE ELSE ... DOESNT MEAN ITS MORE FUN THAN WITHNOTHER REAL PEOPLE
During my time multiboxing I found it pretty fun THATS GREAT BUT IMHO ITS NOT MORE FUN THAN OTHER REAL PEOPLE and to be a huge advantage. TOTALLY DISAGREE A FULL GROUP CAN CLEAR INFINATELYNFASTER AND GARNER MORE REWARDS OVER MONTHS OF PLAY PERIOD ... I QUESTION TA THIS POINT IF YOU MULTIBOXED SERIOUSLY AT ALL
What any one person could do, I could do considerably faster or far more profitable. your semantics there is cute ... you said one person not another whole group of real people ... just stop
As far as fun goes, it's been my experience when someone is doing something voluntarily in a leisure activity that isn't fun, they do not continue to do it. NOWHERE DID IMEVER SAY IT WAS NOT FUN .. ITS JUST MORE FUN AND PROFITABLE AND TIME SAVING TO BE IN A REAL GROUP... DONT TWIST THINGS
Multi-boxing devalues the effort people put in to level their characters, even if scripting/3rd party software etc. isn't being used. IF a person can sign into multiple accounts and go on follow in the same party and have the
secondary accounts gain XP while they play their primary account, that makes a joke of the effort people who level each character individually have made. I'm not sure how one would prevent this without a lot of effort though, but I suspect that making it a bannable offence would help discourage a lot of people from using it.
Woooooot?
You cant just say something like that, imagine your friends bought game after idk... 2 months, how can you help them? Would you come here and say, listen interpid my friends bought game and i dont want to help them because it makes my lvling effort useless? Wtf?
Some games wich allows multibox:
Age of Conan
Aion
Anarchy Online
City of Heroes
City of Villains
Dungeons and Dragons Online
EVE Online
Lord of the Rings Online
Heroes of Newerth
EverQuest
EverQuest II
Lineage
Lineage II
Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
Rakion Latin-Internacional
Warhammer Online
World of Warcraft
The Chronicles of Spellborn
Rift
If multibox is so bad, why those games above allow it?
notice how apart from wow, all of those games are dead/dying, multi boxing wasnt the sole purpose they died but still not a good example. Also Heroes of Newerth is a MOBA, what kind of list is this.
I just wonder why people can't play and enjoy games like everyone else. It always has to be something more, more advantage, more reputation, more accomplishments, more influence and they gonna do it by any means necessary. Really, if you care so much about advantage, accomplishments and recognition please go do some charity or be a politician, astronaut or something and leave others to play games like they are meant to be played. Also why other games allow it - because it brings them additional money.
@Azeem Some of games who support multiboxing @LyrGreen Send me email, audio or video which companies you contacted, and their answer why they allow multiboxing. Thank you.
@Azeem Some of games who support multiboxing @LyrGreen Send me email, audio or video which companies you contacted, and their answer why they allow multiboxing. Thank you.
Yeah sure, because they are all so very transparent, honest and answering questions. Dude i can't get an answer for months in mmo i play on why i can't purchase they currency for real money all of a sudden, that's how much they care.
@Azeem Some of games who support multiboxing @LyrGreen Send me email, audio or video which companies you contacted, and their answer why they allow multiboxing. Thank you.
Comments
If the game is fun to play with just 1 character there will be low chance that someone goes into multiboxing. If that happens the game need to be prepared. In wow you can get more resources for no reasons, just prevent that. You cannot get 5 drops from a single object.
Prevent bots to play the easy farming game, for example .. a resource shouldn't appear everytime in the same spot. Don't implement aoe looting or auto looting , etc.
PvP ... introduce some sort of counterplay, where into a fight of 1 vs 5 the strategy matters more, adding advantage and disadvanteges to spells. For example , you can get frost resistence but take more damage from fire, this way a multiboxing player cannot win even with 5 or more people, becouse he will use every time the same spell or similar one. One person cannot play for 5 ones. Doing that a legit 5 vs 1 will remain effective , unless they are 5 mages and they are so bad to use the same spells.
This will introduce more strategy and fun into the game, more variety and balance.
The problem is not the Multibox .. but the game that makes him viable.
Have you not read any of the other posts? It has been said many times that botting (using software or hardware to multiply key or mouse presses) is not multiboxing and is already been stated to be against the ToS.
Multiboxing is using multiple computers with each being separately controlled by a person. No scripts, no hardware hacks, no software hacks, no botting.
Say hello to cities filled with stalling characters but void of life...
This smells like P2W and that is why I am against multi-boxing.
There is indeed the issue of multiple people from the same household playing from the same IP. But there must be ways to solve that for sure?
So.......you are going to have multiple accounts with stall, ok, great! You use your main for hunting and lvling, great! Now, can you please enlighten me and tell me how you gonna fill lets say you have 3-4 other accounts, so how you gonna fill 3-4 stalls of items? Also how do you mean "visit all your alts"? Teleport to 3-4 account locations?^^
Maybe you need to educate yourself what is mulitbox and what is cheating? -.-
I would fill those stalls by scanning the local market; buying cheap and selling expensive. That way I could fill my stall easily. I would only go and collect the money when I am satisfied with the amount.
According to Wikipedia: Multi-boxing or multiboxing refers to playing as multiple separate characters concurrently in an MMORPG.
The software you are referring to is yet another problem that comes with the issue of having multiple separate characters concurrently playing. Of course I am also against that software!
The main thing is, while you could indeed use alts to buy goods in multiple cities, you would still have to move all of those goods around manually. You can't use the Family summon ability to instantly teleport those types of things around.
So, while you could save a bit of time from having to log on/off alts to check each market, and you would have a greater overall picture of various markets as a whole, you still have to interact with the other game systems (i.e. caravans) in a normal way to move said goods around, so you could actively make money by selling them in other places.
You would also need to keep a decent amount of money on all of those alts constantly to do this. It is possible that this aspect could be done easily through Family summons, though it would still mean time and effort spent on your part to move funds around.
Also, quite honestly, due to the way the auction houses are all going to be spread out, I would hazard a guess that there will likely be dedicated trading guilds forming in this game. EVE Online has a similar system, where each station is its own trading hub, and while there are skills to buy/sell remotely to an extent, there are still plenty of groups that play solely to trade goods around and make money, or to freight goods around for other people and make money. I see no reason guilds like this wouldn't exist in AoC, and they'd make the impact of an individual trying to do this far smaller than it otherwise might be.
Maybe no target based combat
100% skill shots
Once again you got holes in your bucket. You said the facts are flawed. This is what I was talking about when I said rose colored glasses.
I said,
FACT 1)
Multiboxing is 1 person controlling multiple accounts at the same time, on one or many computers, whether by superhuman abilities, genetic mutation that gave you 8 arms and 40 fingers or having hardware and software to help you control all of them at the same time.
Botting is a program that is designed to control a character in game completely independent of, or with minimal input from, a humans interaction to preform a set goal.
You said,
I don't know what you are getting at here.
Multi-boxing and botting are two completely separate subjects. Just because you multi-box doesn't mean you are botting. Just because you are botting does not mean you are multi-boxing.
Multi-boxing can be accomplished entirely without any form of assistance in regards to hardware or software.
This "fact" is flawed.
1) You literally AGREED with what I said.
2) You failed to give any examples of how your answer is different than mine.
3) The fact is not flawed. It is true to what I wrote. If you disagree just give me a definition that is fact driven and explain the differences.
4) I never said multiboxing and botting were the same subject. I threw that in because a lot of people seem to not understand the difference.
Funny stuff here also.
I said,
FACT 2)
Pay To Win IS paying real money to the company providing the content to gain an in game advantage over other people.
Buying extra equipment, better internet or getting anything from a third party source is NOT pay to win. Yes you can still gain an advantage but that is not controlled by the content provider and only the most obtuse would try to consider that a pay to win advantage.
You said,
"The problem with you trying to boil the definition of pay-2-win down this far, is that you start running into the issues of being practical. It is the same argument as not allowing people to have multiple accounts in the first place."
"This definition also fails to take into account any expenditure of effort. When you buy something that is normally considered pay-2-win, it is considered such because it gives you an advantage with no additional effort required."
"Boiling the definition of pay-2-win down this far"
There is no boiling. Pay to win is an easy definition that the vast majority understand. Some people though just don't have the mental capacity to grasp the obvious. See FACT 2.
As far as you saying "It is the same argument as not allowing people to have multiple accounts in the first place."
Nope. I literally addressed this. I said if someone had 2 accounts but they couldn't have characters on the same realm and couldn't trade items back and forth then that would be fine. No account interaction. At that point it would be impossible for them to mutlibox. Having multiple accounts is not the same as multiboxing. Please see FACT 1.
This gem here actually made me chuckle, "This definition also fails to take into account any expenditure of effort. When you buy something that is normally considered pay-2-win, it is considered such because it gives you an advantage with no additional effort required."
You're just trying to troll right? The amount of effort people expend is strictly their issue. Just because you have to put in additional effort does not mean you do not have an advantage available to you. Usually it just means you aren't efficient.
You,
"If I am following the guidelines set by Intrepid, and thus am not using third-party tools to control both characters at once, what is the effective, practical difference between one person having multiple computers and multiple accounts, and a family having multiple computers and multiple accounts?"
Easy, a family doesn't meet the requirements of FACT 1.
You,
"If it requires 200% of the effort to run two accounts as I do running one account, do I actually have any advantages?"
Yes you do. Just because you are failing to capitalize on the advantages does not mean they do not exist.
You,
"I could make the argument that anytime anyone is playing the game in close proximity to another person, that would just as pay-2-win as multi-boxing, as you consider it - in fact, those people would have MORE of an advantage, because they could take two wholly separate actions at the exact same time, and they would be able to focus the entirety of their attention on their single characters."
False. This wouldn't be considered multiboxing because these people in this example would fail to meet the criteria of FACT 1.
False. This wouldn't be considered pay to win because these people in this example would fail to meet the criteria of FACT 2.
Also don't put words in my mouth. I do not consider that statement to be correct.
You,
"I see absolutely no reason that multi-boxing using Intrepid's rules - multiple computers, and no automation/key broadcasting - should be considered any different than a family playing together."
The first part meets the criteria of FACT 2.
A family playing together does not meet the criteria of FACT 1.
You,
"That is why I have said, time and time again, that many of the "advantages" people bring up in regards to multi-boxing are not specific to multi-boxing itself, but rather problems with having multiple accounts - something that is not realistically practical to stop."
Multiboxing and just having multiple accounts are very different.
Multiboxing is FACT 1.
This is past the point of ludicrous. I am literally copy/pasting references to FACT 1 or FACT 2 with most of my answers with minor adjustments to verbiage. I read the rest of your statement and at every turn, every example, you gave an irrelevant or an apples to oranges comparison trying to show how multiboxing isn't an advantage or pay to win. This ridiculous idea you have that somehow a family playing together should qualify as something equal to a multiboxer is just that, ridiculous. People will play and work together but they will not do it constantly every second they are on which is where the multiboxer has the advantage. The advantages that people will get from working with friends and family is the whole premise of an MMO, not multiboxing. Also, just because you can't leverage the advantage that multiboxing would give you to be able to be faster at something or in a stronger position than a single player doesn't mean other people can't. You also can't seem to phathom the difference/advantage multiboxing has vs having multiple accounts that never interact between each other.
Your problem is you can't compare apples to apples. You slant every argument, you dismiss important info and focus on things that do not apply. When things are pointed out to you, instead of looking at it with an objective eye and growing from the situation, you go straight to coming up with some other irrelevant garbage and go "don't pay any attention to that, look over here, shiny". It's painfully obvious that you want mulitboxing in the game and are very willing to give out skewed examples to suit your desires.
Multiboxing is a problem in every game it is in. Pay to win is a disease that should be fought at every turn.
There will be people with advantage if you restrict multi boxing over people who don't have a secondary pc or don't know how to install a program.
secondary accounts gain XP while they play their primary account, that makes a joke of the effort people who level each character individually have made. I'm not sure how one would prevent this without a lot of effort though, but I suspect that making it a bannable offence would help discourage a lot of people from using it.
Woooooot?
You cant just say something like that, imagine your friends bought game after idk... 2 months, how can you help them? Would you come here and say, listen interpid my friends bought game and i dont want to help them because it makes my lvling effort useless? Wtf?
Some games wich allows multibox:
Age of Conan
Aion
Anarchy Online
City of Heroes
City of Villains
Dungeons and Dragons Online
EVE Online
Lord of the Rings Online
Heroes of Newerth
EverQuest
EverQuest II
Lineage
Lineage II
Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
Rakion Latin-Internacional
Warhammer Online
World of Warcraft
The Chronicles of Spellborn
Rift
If multibox is so bad, why those games above allow it?
Could you elaborate on this? I'm not making the connection you are trying to establish between multiboxing, someone starting a game a couple months late and friends not wanting to help someone level up.
To your game reference; They allow multiboxing because it's far easier to allow than it is to try and fight it and they just don't care about the player base. Simple as that.
As Willy Wonka said "One is enough for anybody."
True the games listed are against cheating and they ban cheating but then you have to take into account, what is considered cheating by their rules? If they deem multiboxing is not cheating then it's not cheating and you wont get banned for it. If they say buying gold outside of the game is ok or buying premade max level characters decked out in the best gear possible is ok, well, you wont get banned for that either even though most people would consider that cheating. That doesn't mean that the person multiboxing or buying a premade character doesn't have a distinct advantage. "Cheating" is completely subjective to each individual. It falls into the category of opinion unless there are well defined rules specifically stating what is and is not cheating.
Gaining an advantage over another player because you paid for it isn't a matter of opinion or perspective. It's a factual advantage that can be quantified and therefor can be easily defined in the rules. Which way the rules sway is the perspective and that's what this thread is trying to define.
As far as "Also why would they spend millions and millions of dollars making game and not care about the player base?"
The best answer I ever heard was "Multiboxing would be banned if Blizzard cared about their games more than filling their pocket book and buying a fourth yacht."
Obviously that was written about Blizzard but I think it fits fairly well across the gaming landscape. If microtransactions did not exist and ALL content for the game was in the game, not sold as cosmetics and other garbage like that, you would a see better quality of games. Currently most games are very sloppy but their profit margins are propped up by the in game stores. Maybe if people refused to buy crap from the in game stores and stopped paying for half-assed games, we'd get better quality games that are fully fleshed out with all the cosmetics in the game at no extra charge. Just something to think about people.
No matter how good the game is, when you see a large group of a multi-boxers accounts that's something that will ruin the game for certain people. Same as P2W ruins games.
(I'd prefer no multi-boxing allowed at all but good luck with that) I've played MMO's for half my life and even games that restrict multi-boxers still manage to have them lurking in the shadows.
Simply put, if people are allowed to do it then people will abuse it. If it is banned right from the start it sets a precedent that most people will avoid. The idea of not using assisting software doesn't mean anything for people that understand how to circumvent the detection systems.
Mass farming, auction house manipulation, ganking, teleportation, land ownership, being in 2 places at once, bag space/ carry capacity are just a few ways to use multiboxing to your advantage. If the absolute most you could do with multiboxing was having a healer on follow to help you survive I don't think anyone would care. The facts of how multiboxing has been used in other games is what most people don't like.
The other thing people don't is when the playing field isn't even for all.
What do you mean there is no teleport?
You are right it is a pain in the ass to use more than 2 or 3 computers the way Intrepid Studios is intending. Problem is in reality people will do research and find there are ways to side step the rules without being caught, so why wouldn't they? It's not the honest player people have a problem with. It's the ones that disrespect the rules and others to gain an advantage and what is multiboxing if not a very clear, distinct advantage?
If that is true and enforced then there will be no multi boxing and it’s silly for them to even say they support multi boxing ....
because all multi boxers besides hardware boxers (which are super super rare these days because of the equipment cost and it’s not as efficient as using inner space etc) use one PC ... otherwise it’s not fun at all
The problem that bothers me is how many gamers still think multiboxers are hackers/cheaters/Chinese gold farmers... when boxers are just people that enjoy the added fun of not needing to wait around lfg.. or want to try something for a sense of accomplishment.
Botting is not boxing .... botting for cheating purposes requires one pc and is virtually undetected except with human eyes and reporting and even then innocents can be reported ... so the real cheaters ( botters ) are not even effected by one account per pc rules ...
I no longer multi box and prolly never will again ... but the community of boxers are not cheaters ... botters are cheaters ...
At least inform yourselves of differences before freaking out and focus on how to curb botting in the industry not boxers
Umm I am retired at 48 having sold my companies ... I have very little worries about monies ... I have multi boxed ... and it’s purpose is not advantage ... most times it’s to avoid lfg and wasting time you have to game ... I could multi Box any games I play without a second thought to costs ... but have not Since I retired because I have the time to form groups and play for longer periods ... so your entire premise is debunked
On top of that most people could afford another 15 dollars a month to box a second account if they wanted you act as if most gamers are broke
Multi boxing is not the most fun way to play ... it just saves a heck of a lot of time from not hoping to be able to put a group together in a limited amount of gaming time ... or it’s just fun to piddle around doing what you want without worrying about wasting others time or hearing them complain you are not a meta bui,d
Just an observation.
You stated " I have multi boxed ... and it’s purpose is not advantage ... most times it’s to avoid lfg"
Umm, wouldn't the ability to run a dungeon when you want and not have to go through lfg to get a group be an advantage? Also if this game isn't going to have lfg wouldn't multiboxing be that much more of an advantage?
Also "Multi boxing is not the most fun way to play" then you say "or it’s just fun to piddle around doing what you want"
So it is or is not fun?
During my time multiboxing I found it pretty fun and to be a huge advantage. What any one person could do, I could do considerably faster or far more profitable. As far as fun goes, it's been my experience when someone is doing something voluntarily in a leisure activity that isn't fun, they do not continue to do it. I found multiboxing fun and so did the other people I knew that continued doing it. Once it stopped being fun I don't know anyone personally that kept doing it.
I do agree with you when you said "it just saves a heck of a lot of time".
The whole issue for me is when the multi-boxer user has multiple clients open and uses software to play all characters at once, in that case the player could just run around and one shot almost everyone he comes across or possibly take over objectives like caravans in an instant.
notice how apart from wow, all of those games are dead/dying, multi boxing wasnt the sole purpose they died but still not a good example. Also Heroes of Newerth is a MOBA, what kind of list is this.
@LyrGreen Send me email, audio or video which companies you contacted, and their answer why they allow multiboxing. Thank you.
Yeah sure, because they are all so very transparent, honest and answering questions. Dude i can't get an answer for months in mmo i play on why i can't purchase they currency for real money all of a sudden, that's how much they care.
Sure, no problem. This is just one companies response to that,
https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-transcripts/2020/02/07/activision-blizzard-inc-atvi-q4-2019-earnings-call.aspx
Go ahead and read that. Take note when they start talking about profits.