They could implement dangerous sea creatures which would unable you from traveling to far if you were swimming, water mount, boat.
Say as you swim more than 50 metres out there's a good chance something will eat you.
If your water mount goes below 10 metres it may incur a deadly sea creature that can kill you.
There should be advantages and disadvantages from how you use the water.
Risk v rewards = takes time, effort, money, resources to build your boat then obviously there should be better rewards involved
I don't get you guys against having water mounts to ride.
It's balanced with Land Mounts AND gives me hope for content where they will be needed.
They are just showing off the initial balanced nature, not the end functionality.
Ships offer a Surface Platform to do raids and skim the surface.
At this point I think of them as abundant "Flying Mounts for Water".
If anything they will be too prevalent compared to Air Flying Mounts.
But if this is going to be how it is, not that big a deal.
It's not that "we" are against water mounts. It's that they are making ships invalid.
With your argument; compared to flying mounts. That means there will be less than 20 ships per server. Is this what you imagined AoC to be, with all their energy (development) being put into ships, when mounts will just over ride ships?
Why bother taking a ferry or zeplin, if you can just swim, with your bear, to the next shore? Why bother taking your ship to Atlantis, when you can just take your turtle? So far, ships only offer RP benefits (caravans are not ships, for this conversation), fishing and dancing.
It's not that "we" are against water mounts. It's that they are making ships invalid.
With your argument; compared to flying mounts. That means there will be less than 20 ships per server. Is this what you imagined AoC to be, with all their energy (development) being put into ships, when mounts will just over ride ships?
Why bother taking a ferry or zeplin, if you can just swim, with your bear, to the next shore? Why bother taking your ship to Atlantis, when you can just take your turtle? So far, ships only offer RP benefits (caravans are not ships, for this conversation), fishing and dancing.
From what we know thus far, the utility of ships in AoC will not be purely for traveling purposes. Also, a mount will not be able to carry a lot of people through water.
I don't think water mounts make trade galleons invalid. You can't carry the same amount on a water mount as you can a ship. And I'd imagine a ship would go faster than a water mount. At least larger ships anyway - maybe not a row boat.
It's not that "we" are against water mounts. It's that they are making ships invalid.
With your argument; compared to flying mounts. That means there will be less than 20 ships per server. Is this what you imagined AoC to be, with all their energy (development) being put into ships, when mounts will just over ride ships?
Why bother taking a ferry or zeplin, if you can just swim, with your bear, to the next shore? Why bother taking your ship to Atlantis, when you can just take your turtle? So far, ships only offer RP benefits (caravans are not ships, for this conversation), fishing and dancing.
From what we know thus far, the utility of ships in AoC will not be purely for traveling purposes. Also, a mount will not be able to carry a lot of people through water.
I'd love to hear about these features (utility), ships could offer, besides travel.
Storage, is for caravaning, we are not talking about caravans, but player made and owned ships vs mounts.
The devs mentioned, multiple riders on mounts. That would lead me into; gta drive-bys, but that not the discussion. So, that argument doesn't hold water, but reinforce what I am concerned about.
I'm not trying to be argumentive. I'm just pointing out a hole in the argument. By adding a feature, they put big holes in another.
I also find that mmos in general have ruined the sense of wildlife and the respect we should have for the dangers of the jungle, as well as sea and the creatures lurking.
When you give players all those creatures that they can joyride on, how can I respect them as challenging PvE?
When I ride a bear, how is it not immersion breaking that I have to hunt them for mats, or xp?
I feel your concerns, that a water mount will be too powerful and will break the sea challenge, but i hope it will not be.
Getting a water mount will be a challenge too i believe, the same as making the boat. What mmo are you talking about? that you expirienced such thing, with boat exploration.
When you ride a bear you can kill what you want ... i don't see the immersion breaking. If you ride an horse you can still hunt down other horses in the wild. Maybe they can add more characterization to the Bear, so that when you do such thing he will become less friendly and change behavior, but a well trained animal doesn't have such problem... it is not a wild simulator for now.
I also find that mmos in general have ruined the sense of wildlife and the respect we should have for the dangers of the jungle, as well as sea and the creatures lurking.
When you give players all those creatures that they can joyride on, how can I respect them as challenging PvE?
When I ride a bear, how is it not immersion breaking that I have to hunt them for mats, or xp?
I feel your concerns, that a water mount will be too powerful and will break the sea challenge, but i hope it will not be.
Getting a water mount will be a challenge too i believe, the same as making the boat. What mmo are you talking about? that you expirienced such thing, with boat exploration.
When you ride a bear you can kill what you want ... i don't see the immersion breaking. If you ride an horse you can still hunt down other horses in the wild. Maybe they can add more characterization to the Bear, so that when you do such thing he will become less friendly and change behavior, but a well trained animal doesn't have such problem... it is not a wild simulator for now.
A "break-in" period for mounts would honestly be pretty cool. Like they sporadically run in different directions than where you command them until you've ridden them enough. And a bear would take longer to break in then a horse. Plus this could be player-specific so that the mount feels more personalized to you and if you go trading mounts aroumd constantly you'll have to break in the new ones. I'm going to put that idea on my list of post-launch recommendations to prevent scope creep
Dear developers, please dont deminish the challenges of rediscovering a lost world (Verra) just so that animal husbundry and cosmetic mounts function.
A lot of players will find underwater dissapointing if you can ride around so effortlessly.
A lot of players will lose excitment on sailing and daring islands, upon seeing how ez it is to reach them.
Riding a bear and a lion on land, as well as riding a sea mount underwater goes against the "risk vs reward" mentality, which in it's core is essentially ADVENTURE, CHALLENGE, DANGER.
It's your world that you create. Show it more respect and dont give in to cosmetic collectors.
How does riding a bear go against risk vs reward? Cant wait to hear the logic on that one.
In regards to another of your posts, why should a bear pose a PVE challenge? And why would someone domesticating a bear enough to ride it, suddenly invalidate the risk a wild bear poses? There are pet bears and large cats in the real world, are you suddenly unafraid of a wild one if you come across it unprepared?
I have no idea why you hate water mounts so much, especially if they are nothing more than swimming speed buffs essentially.
We have no idea how ships will work, yet you are somehow claiming water mounts invalidate them.
What if boats move twice, or more, the speed of a mount, can carry loads of goods, have mounted defenses that can absolutely demolish players on mounts, and any number of other logical uses a boat might have over some dude riding a turtle. Not to mention a boat might be aesthetically customizable which plenty of people would love.
You claim exploration is affected by mounts. That is just what... once again you have no idea of travel times for the marine environment. Sure maybe you CAN ride to X island on a mount, but if that takes 1 hour, while a ship takes 10 mins. There is no chance ships will be invalidated by mounts in that situation. As for killing exploration, having my options for underwater travel be limited to simply swimming would kill my desire to traverse the depths far far more than if I was riding on the back of some critter which allowed me to actually travel at a reasonable pace.
Sorry, until they show mounts doing everything a boat can do but better, I utterly fail to see how mounts invalidate ships in any capacity. Mounts based on that little preview look like nothing more than underwater swimming speed buffs, and that is a far cry from destroying the need for boats.
Archeage had both sea mounts and boats, and Ashes water content seems to be almost completely modeled on that game.
It works in Archeage because mounts are much slower than even entry level boats, and offer up almost essentially nothing in regards to defense or utility. On top of that, mounts are single person, while boats hold multiple people. In a boat you would have one player at the helm, while you have 10 or so others on cannons or lookout duty or what ever. If a boat comes across a player on a mount and decides they want to kill him, there really isn't anything that player on the mount can do.
Again, assuming it is the same as Archeage, sea mounts are only likely to see any real use around shores (due to boats not being able to be summoned at will), and potentially on location at sea based content (using a boat to get to it, and then using mounts once there).
People are unlikely to use mounts to actually go out exploring - unless the entry level boats are prohibitively expensive.
Boats are great, water mounts... not so sure, I'd rather have a challenge or task of having to either build a small boat to traverse smallish areas of water or a larger vessel for longer distances
If mounts are treated like actual entities that need to be cared for and not a glorified collectible, it shouldn't be an issue. But so far they appear to be an ass-pulled traversal mechanic. If they turn that around though, boats will definitely take the priority for all sea travel, as they should.
If mounts are treated like actual entities that need to be cared for and not a glorified collectible, it shouldn't be an issue. But so far they appear to be an ass-pulled traversal mechanic. If they turn that around though, boats will definitely take the priority for all sea travel, as they should.
I wouldn't be so negative about mounts in general if they were more complex than being a simple speed buff. Even water mounts.
It's not that "we" are against water mounts. It's that they are making ships invalid.
With your argument; compared to flying mounts. That means there will be less than 20 ships per server. Is this what you imagined AoC to be, with all their energy (development) being put into ships, when mounts will just over ride ships?
Why bother taking a ferry or zeplin, if you can just swim, with your bear, to the next shore? Why bother taking your ship to Atlantis, when you can just take your turtle? So far, ships only offer RP benefits (caravans are not ships, for this conversation), fishing and dancing.
nice try at making a false dichotomy. You know full well I didn't mean there would be only 20 ships per server, nor do you believe that either.
They are a "surface" transport, that avoid all the terrain under them, like a dragon flying over the land, that is all I meant.
Also ships are designed for PvP and PvE, we have been TOLD that they will be "support" for up to 40 man raids in water content.
Then we have the false premise that water mounts will be faster than ships. I mean, do you REALLY think they will be? All this effort and thought on behalf of Intrepid Studios and you think they are that short sighted?
As for why take the ferry or zeplin? Yeah, again, stop lying to yourself. You mean in WoW people on mounts never take flight points? You annoy the hell out of me with your childishness.
Mounts are for exploration and evasion. Their whole purpose is to have a travel mode that you control and don't lose stamina while doing it. The fact Land mounts are faster on land and Water mounts are faster in deep water means there is balance.
Intrepid Studios has given it thought and made choices. They have put man hours into it. While they want our opinions, don't expect it to change. They showed us as a courtesy, because they are excited about it and wanted to share.
All these fantasy nightmares about how things will go wrong make me worried the player base is 15% neurotic murder hobos. LOL just kidding, maybe...
I think there definitely needs to be massive drawbacks to using water mounts extensively. I agree it really takes away from the naval side of this game which seems to be important to the developers.
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T ElfMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Think naval vessles as travel on top of water and water-mounts travel under water.
Think naval vessles as travel on top of water and water-mounts travel under water.
Diving, looking for shipwrecks, opening chests, avoiding creatures by hiding on seaweeds emweging back up your boat/ship or whatever is not the same with speeding around on top of some seahorse looking all cute as if in some mario kart underwater stage.
Ships are for safety and fast water travel, aquatic mounts are for personal exploration and will be a much more dangerous way to get to your water destination. I can't see sea monsters having any specific pathing that will allow a safe "road" so you will have to either do a lot of avoiding or a lot of fighting. Plus you will need something like a water breathing potion which has it's own problems.
If I wanted to reach a somewhat distant point, say a sunken dungeon in the middle of nowhere, sign me up for a boat any day so I can be there in 5 mins instead of taking 15-20 mins on a mount (exact numbers are all speculative of course)
I think it'd be awesome to have a caravan ship being attacked by a bunch of shark-riding pirates. I don't see the problem.
I think that would be ugly simp looking and would rather a caravan ship be attacked by a pirate ship.
The game is on development and that's my feedback. Against the silliness seen in most mmos right now.
Fair enough, and it will be my assumption that there will only be a select few types of monsters that can kill a boat, but any can kill a mount. So if the cooldown on the resurrection is severe enough it would really incentivize players to go hop on a ship with some friends rather than get stranded out in the middle of the sea strafing water and waiting for their mount to respawn at the risk of being killed by mobs or other players.
Quick edit: Ships also allow this.
Mariner classes (also referred to as boatsmanship classes, boatsman skills or seamanship) contain different skill trees arranged in a similar manner to Artisan classes. As a player gains experience in these different skills they become more adept at using them.[37]
Gunnery.[37]
Piloting.[37]
Navigation.[37]
Boat repair.[37]
Ship components.[37]
Defensive skills.[37]
Utility based skills.[37]
You can spec into and kind of create your own class based on what things you're doing on the boat... It's gonna be very similar to in structure to like the artisanship trees, so you'll you'll have your mariner class: You'll have different trees in that class.[37] – Jeffrey Bard
Fair enough, and it will be my assumption that there will only be a select few types of monsters that can kill a boat, but any can kill a mount. So if the cooldown on the resurrection is severe enough it would really incentivize players to go hop on a ship with some friends rather than get stranded out in the middle of the sea strafing water and waiting for their mount to respawn at the risk of being killed by mobs or other players.
Quick edit: Ships also allow this.
Mariner classes (also referred to as boatsmanship classes, boatsman skills or seamanship) contain different skill trees arranged in a similar manner to Artisan classes. As a player gains experience in these different skills they become more adept at using them.[37]
Gunnery.[37]
Piloting.[37]
Navigation.[37]
Boat repair.[37]
Ship components.[37]
Defensive skills.[37]
Utility based skills.[37]
You can spec into and kind of create your own class based on what things you're doing on the boat... It's gonna be very similar to in structure to like the artisanship trees, so you'll you'll have your mariner class: You'll have different trees in that class.[37] – Jeffrey Bard
Imagine having such plans for naval content being slowly ignored because we can ride sharks and cut corners.
I rly hope they do right by ships if they add water mounts.
Comments
Say as you swim more than 50 metres out there's a good chance something will eat you.
If your water mount goes below 10 metres it may incur a deadly sea creature that can kill you.
There should be advantages and disadvantages from how you use the water.
Risk v rewards = takes time, effort, money, resources to build your boat then obviously there should be better rewards involved
Very little
It's balanced with Land Mounts AND gives me hope for content where they will be needed.
They are just showing off the initial balanced nature, not the end functionality.
Ships offer a Surface Platform to do raids and skim the surface.
At this point I think of them as abundant "Flying Mounts for Water".
If anything they will be too prevalent compared to Air Flying Mounts.
But if this is going to be how it is, not that big a deal.
It's not that "we" are against water mounts. It's that they are making ships invalid.
With your argument; compared to flying mounts. That means there will be less than 20 ships per server. Is this what you imagined AoC to be, with all their energy (development) being put into ships, when mounts will just over ride ships?
Why bother taking a ferry or zeplin, if you can just swim, with your bear, to the next shore? Why bother taking your ship to Atlantis, when you can just take your turtle? So far, ships only offer RP benefits (caravans are not ships, for this conversation), fishing and dancing.
From what we know thus far, the utility of ships in AoC will not be purely for traveling purposes. Also, a mount will not be able to carry a lot of people through water.
I'd love to hear about these features (utility), ships could offer, besides travel.
Storage, is for caravaning, we are not talking about caravans, but player made and owned ships vs mounts.
The devs mentioned, multiple riders on mounts. That would lead me into; gta drive-bys, but that not the discussion. So, that argument doesn't hold water, but reinforce what I am concerned about.
I'm not trying to be argumentive. I'm just pointing out a hole in the argument. By adding a feature, they put big holes in another.
I feel your concerns, that a water mount will be too powerful and will break the sea challenge, but i hope it will not be.
Getting a water mount will be a challenge too i believe, the same as making the boat. What mmo are you talking about? that you expirienced such thing, with boat exploration.
When you ride a bear you can kill what you want ... i don't see the immersion breaking. If you ride an horse you can still hunt down other horses in the wild. Maybe they can add more characterization to the Bear, so that when you do such thing he will become less friendly and change behavior, but a well trained animal doesn't have such problem... it is not a wild simulator for now.
A "break-in" period for mounts would honestly be pretty cool. Like they sporadically run in different directions than where you command them until you've ridden them enough. And a bear would take longer to break in then a horse. Plus this could be player-specific so that the mount feels more personalized to you and if you go trading mounts aroumd constantly you'll have to break in the new ones. I'm going to put that idea on my list of post-launch recommendations to prevent scope creep
How does riding a bear go against risk vs reward? Cant wait to hear the logic on that one.
In regards to another of your posts, why should a bear pose a PVE challenge? And why would someone domesticating a bear enough to ride it, suddenly invalidate the risk a wild bear poses? There are pet bears and large cats in the real world, are you suddenly unafraid of a wild one if you come across it unprepared?
I have no idea why you hate water mounts so much, especially if they are nothing more than swimming speed buffs essentially.
We have no idea how ships will work, yet you are somehow claiming water mounts invalidate them.
What if boats move twice, or more, the speed of a mount, can carry loads of goods, have mounted defenses that can absolutely demolish players on mounts, and any number of other logical uses a boat might have over some dude riding a turtle. Not to mention a boat might be aesthetically customizable which plenty of people would love.
You claim exploration is affected by mounts. That is just what... once again you have no idea of travel times for the marine environment. Sure maybe you CAN ride to X island on a mount, but if that takes 1 hour, while a ship takes 10 mins. There is no chance ships will be invalidated by mounts in that situation. As for killing exploration, having my options for underwater travel be limited to simply swimming would kill my desire to traverse the depths far far more than if I was riding on the back of some critter which allowed me to actually travel at a reasonable pace.
Sorry, until they show mounts doing everything a boat can do but better, I utterly fail to see how mounts invalidate ships in any capacity. Mounts based on that little preview look like nothing more than underwater swimming speed buffs, and that is a far cry from destroying the need for boats.
It works in Archeage because mounts are much slower than even entry level boats, and offer up almost essentially nothing in regards to defense or utility. On top of that, mounts are single person, while boats hold multiple people. In a boat you would have one player at the helm, while you have 10 or so others on cannons or lookout duty or what ever. If a boat comes across a player on a mount and decides they want to kill him, there really isn't anything that player on the mount can do.
Again, assuming it is the same as Archeage, sea mounts are only likely to see any real use around shores (due to boats not being able to be summoned at will), and potentially on location at sea based content (using a boat to get to it, and then using mounts once there).
People are unlikely to use mounts to actually go out exploring - unless the entry level boats are prohibitively expensive.
I wouldn't be so negative about mounts in general if they were more complex than being a simple speed buff. Even water mounts.
nice try at making a false dichotomy. You know full well I didn't mean there would be only 20 ships per server, nor do you believe that either.
They are a "surface" transport, that avoid all the terrain under them, like a dragon flying over the land, that is all I meant.
Also ships are designed for PvP and PvE, we have been TOLD that they will be "support" for up to 40 man raids in water content.
Then we have the false premise that water mounts will be faster than ships. I mean, do you REALLY think they will be? All this effort and thought on behalf of Intrepid Studios and you think they are that short sighted?
As for why take the ferry or zeplin? Yeah, again, stop lying to yourself. You mean in WoW people on mounts never take flight points? You annoy the hell out of me with your childishness.
Mounts are for exploration and evasion. Their whole purpose is to have a travel mode that you control and don't lose stamina while doing it. The fact Land mounts are faster on land and Water mounts are faster in deep water means there is balance.
Intrepid Studios has given it thought and made choices. They have put man hours into it. While they want our opinions, don't expect it to change. They showed us as a courtesy, because they are excited about it and wanted to share.
All these fantasy nightmares about how things will go wrong make me worried the player base is 15% neurotic murder hobos. LOL just kidding, maybe...
Hell yes! Sign me up!
Formerly T-Elf
Diving, looking for shipwrecks, opening chests, avoiding creatures by hiding on seaweeds emweging back up your boat/ship or whatever is not the same with speeding around on top of some seahorse looking all cute as if in some mario kart underwater stage.
Ships are for safety and fast water travel, aquatic mounts are for personal exploration and will be a much more dangerous way to get to your water destination. I can't see sea monsters having any specific pathing that will allow a safe "road" so you will have to either do a lot of avoiding or a lot of fighting. Plus you will need something like a water breathing potion which has it's own problems.
If I wanted to reach a somewhat distant point, say a sunken dungeon in the middle of nowhere, sign me up for a boat any day so I can be there in 5 mins instead of taking 15-20 mins on a mount (exact numbers are all speculative of course)
I think that would be ugly simp looking and would rather a caravan ship be attacked by a pirate ship.
The game is on development and that's my feedback. Against the silliness seen in most mmos right now.
With water mounts they should either not be as fast as boats or make it so that boats are alot safer to ride in vs the natural monsters in an area.
And I heard somewhere that mounts can be killed? Can anyone confirm this? If this is indeed the case well, thats your balancing mechanic right there.
They can also be resurrected after a cooldown period.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Mounts
Not good enough
Fair enough, and it will be my assumption that there will only be a select few types of monsters that can kill a boat, but any can kill a mount. So if the cooldown on the resurrection is severe enough it would really incentivize players to go hop on a ship with some friends rather than get stranded out in the middle of the sea strafing water and waiting for their mount to respawn at the risk of being killed by mobs or other players.
Quick edit: Ships also allow this.
Mariner classes (also referred to as boatsmanship classes, boatsman skills or seamanship) contain different skill trees arranged in a similar manner to Artisan classes. As a player gains experience in these different skills they become more adept at using them.[37]
Gunnery.[37]
Piloting.[37]
Navigation.[37]
Boat repair.[37]
Ship components.[37]
Defensive skills.[37]
Utility based skills.[37]
You can spec into and kind of create your own class based on what things you're doing on the boat... It's gonna be very similar to in structure to like the artisanship trees, so you'll you'll have your mariner class: You'll have different trees in that class.[37] – Jeffrey Bard
Imagine having such plans for naval content being slowly ignored because we can ride sharks and cut corners.
I rly hope they do right by ships if they add water mounts.
Oh trust me ill be there right along side you if they make boats obsolete. I'm a fisher for christ's sake I need a boat!