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Misinformation about monthly cosmetics

HakaijuHakaiju Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
edited January 17 in General Discussion
Variations of monthly limited cosmetics will NOT be obtainable in game for players, as stated https://clips.twitch.tv/HealthyPolishedCroquetteArsonNoSexy. I have seen this misconception under so many posts in the last couple of weeks that it kind of irritates me, as we already have a clear statement. In my opinion this is totally fine, as those cosmetics should be special for people who want to support the game. If everyone could get them with a different colour, these cosmetics would just feel like a scam to me.
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Comments

  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Hakaiju wrote: »
    Variations of monthly limited cosmetics will NOT be obtainable in game for players, as stated https://clips.twitch.tv/HealthyPolishedCroquetteArsonNoSexy. I have seen this misconception under so many posts in the last couple of weeks that it kind of irritates me, as we already have a clear statement. In my opinion this is totally fine, as those cosmetics should be special for people who want to support the game. If everyone could get them with a different colour, these cosmetics would just feel like a scam to me.

    I posted a recolor in another thread as a joke. I realize that my sense of humor might not come through over text that well.

    While I don't thing they would only adjust the hue for paid vs earned cosmetics. I do think they the paid ones will just look slightly better. Maybe a few more baubles or accents on the shop cosmetics.

    My main concern that I pray is a misconception on my part is that these monthly outfits wont be dyeable or able to be broken up so that I can mix and match. I was never a big fan of transmogs, but since it is standard now. I at least want a level of customization that allows me to have fun and be creative with it.

    You are right, if it was a recolor only. It would feel like a cheap scam. Everything should be dyable in 2021. It was in Guild Wars 1 Circa 2005.
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  • Was the statement in your link made by Steven Sharif or someone else at Intrepid?
    If so, yay we got information! If not, you are spreading misinformation.
  • Was the statement in your link made by Steven Sharif or someone else at Intrepid?
    If so, yay we got information! If not, you are spreading misinformation.

    Watch the clip and tell me who you saw.
  • MaezrielMaezriel Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I'll just copy over what I said in the Reddit thread talking about this:

    I was really disappointed when I saw that stream.

    I don't mind exclusivity in MMOs but I greatly prefer if it comes in the form of gameplay, not having disposable income to spend on something not even fully in it's Alpha stage.

    There's people who fairly consistently brag about having purchased every skin they can and when you add in the roulette nature of the store it brings out the same feelings I get when I see any Activision or EA store.
    • I don't like that we are completely blind to what's coming up.
    • I don't like that cosmetics are tied in w/ the keys so you can't opt out of them if you only want to support the game in a more technical way.
    • I don't like that it's not about showing that you supported the game development, but that you supported the development on a specific month...it's a micro level that I feel is unnecessary and unhealthy

    The store is set up to maximize FOMO and as a gamer and consumer that has seen consistent No Man Sky-esque launches (CP2077 to name the latest) it just doesn't feel good.

  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Alpha One
    Maezriel wrote: »
    • I don't like that we are completely blind to what's coming up.
    • I don't like that cosmetics are tied in w/ the keys so you can't opt out of them if you only want to support the game in a more technical way.
    • I don't like that it's not about showing that you supported the game development, but that you supported the development on a specific month...it's a micro level that I feel is unnecessary and unhealthy
    1. i don't really get this as it will always be the case. You (and them) will never know what's coming in the future. Is there a particular time frame you want? do you want them to release cosmetic concept art a month before it's going to be available in the store?

    2 & 3. Just to make sure, you know you can buy individual cosmetics once you have bought the tier that cosmetic type belongs to? If you buy the 375 pack today and next weeks cosmetics have a really cool outfit you want, you can buy that individual outfit instead of the full pack.

    I understand it's a high upfront cost and if that's your gripe, cool, but it sounds like you are worried about having to buy the full pack each time you want to cosmetics.

    Yes, buying into a game this early is a gamble and should be seen as such.
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  • MaezrielMaezriel Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Maezriel wrote: »
    • I don't like that we are completely blind to what's coming up.
    • I don't like that cosmetics are tied in w/ the keys so you can't opt out of them if you only want to support the game in a more technical way.
    • I don't like that it's not about showing that you supported the game development, but that you supported the development on a specific month...it's a micro level that I feel is unnecessary and unhealthy
    1. i don't really get this as it will always be the case. You (and them) will never know what's coming in the future. Is there a particular time frame you want? do you want them to release cosmetic concept art a month before it's going to be available in the store?

    2 & 3. Just to make sure, you know you can buy individual cosmetics once you have bought the tier that cosmetic type belongs to? If you buy the 375 pack today and next weeks cosmetics have a really cool outfit you want, you can buy that individual outfit instead of the full pack.

    I understand it's a high upfront cost and if that's your gripe, cool, but it sounds like you are worried about having to buy the full pack each time you want to cosmetics.

    Yes, buying into a game this early is a gamble and should be seen as such.

    1. A roadmap would be great and having it a few months out would be even better. Having absolutely no idea what the next set is until almost a week prior is little more than roulette when I'd prefer to be an informed consumer.

    2. You can't opt out of cosmetics, you HAVE to buy them in order to get a key and I don't like that. I'd greatly prefer to pay for early access/testing than into a store cosmetic system that I don't support.

    3. I greatly dislike that the only solution to purchasing a key w/ a cosmetic you don't like is to just purchase more cosmetics. "I'm an early supporter," should be enough. Not "I was an early support on X month."

    4. It's not the cost...it's the extremely aggressive FOMO paired w/ the fact that the store was one of the first things to be fully developed even though we're constantly told how the game is already fully funded.



    I'm excited for the game and I'm going to continue making content for it, but the store is 100% my biggest gripe and I've yet to hear a good argument that'll change my mind on it.
  • WarthWarth Member
    Maezriel wrote: »
    Maezriel wrote: »
    • I don't like that we are completely blind to what's coming up.
    • I don't like that cosmetics are tied in w/ the keys so you can't opt out of them if you only want to support the game in a more technical way.
    • I don't like that it's not about showing that you supported the game development, but that you supported the development on a specific month...it's a micro level that I feel is unnecessary and unhealthy
    1. i don't really get this as it will always be the case. You (and them) will never know what's coming in the future. Is there a particular time frame you want? do you want them to release cosmetic concept art a month before it's going to be available in the store?

    2 & 3. Just to make sure, you know you can buy individual cosmetics once you have bought the tier that cosmetic type belongs to? If you buy the 375 pack today and next weeks cosmetics have a really cool outfit you want, you can buy that individual outfit instead of the full pack.

    I understand it's a high upfront cost and if that's your gripe, cool, but it sounds like you are worried about having to buy the full pack each time you want to cosmetics.

    Yes, buying into a game this early is a gamble and should be seen as such.

    1. A roadmap would be great and having it a few months out would be even better. Having absolutely no idea what the next set is until almost a week prior is little more than roulette when I'd prefer to be an informed consumer.

    2. You can't opt out of cosmetics, you HAVE to buy them in order to get a key and I don't like that. I'd greatly prefer to pay for early access/testing than into a store cosmetic system that I don't support.

    3. I greatly dislike that the only solution to purchasing a key w/ a cosmetic you don't like is to just purchase more cosmetics. "I'm an early supporter," should be enough. Not "I was an early support on X month."

    4. It's not the cost...it's the extremely aggressive FOMO paired w/ the fact that the store was one of the first things to be fully developed even though we're constantly told how the game is already fully funded.



    I'm excited for the game and I'm going to continue making content for it, but the store is 100% my biggest gripe and I've yet to hear a good argument that'll change my mind on it.

    Nobody needs to change your mind on that. You are entitled to your opinions/concerns/reserverations the same way everybody else is.

    I personally agree, that a basic outline of the next 3 cosmetic set themes would be very helpful, I wouldn't even have to go as far as concept art. Just a baseline the community can orientate itself on.

    2 and 3. are basically the same points. So i'll adress that as one. Its understandable, that they want to people testing the game to be invested into the game. A high price of entry is the easiest way to do that. Might not work for all testers, as some just have too much money to spend, but most people tend to take it seriously once they spend 500$ on testing access. Which is completely fair in my personal opinion. Its the exact same with the Sub Time you get. People who already have paid for 6-9 Months of sub time are more likely to give the game a try, a second and even a third try if there is a bumpy start.

    4. It being funded to completion really doesn't mean anything in that regard. Just because Steven and John could spend 40+ Million on the game, doesn't mean they wouldn't prefer not to do that. If the community takes a couple of million of the production costs, then i can't see how how anyone (except those for whom a couple of million are chump change) would ever refuse that.
  • StevenSharifStevenSharif Moderator, Member, Staff, Avatar of the Phoenix
    Hello friends, a quick clarification on the shop cosmetics.

    There will not be recolors or material swaps on the monthly cosmetics as a means to populate additional achievements in game by player characters. There will however be variants of the cosmetics for NPC populations including quest-givers, guards, merchants and creatures. Additionally, from an armor standpoint, we cut armor sets up into many different pieces. These pieces can sometimes be used as part of other sets, that may include helmets, wrists, gloves etc. So while you will not see an achievable white version of the corvid castigator set in the game for example, you may see its shoulder piece used in another set, or its leggings, or wrist piece used in another set (not every piece as to form the whole set, but perhaps a couple pieces). This would be difficult to notice at first glance, due to the material, texture and color variation used, but this modular approach to content creation makes achieving a wide variety of looks achievable for an MMORPG of our size.

    With that being said however, the intent behind my approach to these cosmetics, as well as the cosmetics that will be achievable in the game, is to provide a richer experience of visual diversity than we are typically accustomed to in the MMORPGs we have played in the past. There will be legendary cosmetics that are ONLY achievable in game and players can know wont be offered in some cosmetic shop in the future undermining their accomplishment. As well as for the more casual players time exclusive purchasable cosmetics from the marketplace, that players who purchase these can rest assured they won't be available again in some sale by the company in the future.

    It's important to remember, Ashes is a NO-BOX COST subscription only game, with an optional cosmetic marketplace. This achieves a few things from a monetization model. Having a lower barrier to entry for players to try the game when they don't have to fork out $60 for the box price is good, our box price is 0$. This also places an emphasis on the game's retention and our continual updates and content creation to keep players playing and staying subscribed (a put your money where your mouth is sort of philosophy for us as a company). It also means players don't have to spend $60 everytime there is an expansion.

    Is there an answer that satisfies everyone? Nope. And that's ok. We are open and transparent with our philosophies and business model. You know what you are getting with Ashes and to me, given my experiences in other games, it is a nice breath of fresh air.
  • AntVictusAntVictus Member, Alpha One
    Hello friends, a quick clarification on the shop cosmetics.

    SNIP

    Well that's nifty.
  • JamationJamation Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    @Lex This might be a good post for the cosmetics page to help further clarify
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    @StevenSharif So if I were to but this months armor set. On my end could I only use the gloves and boots. Dye them another color, and use the chest and legs from another months cosmetic armor set.

    I am worried I don't understand the difference between cosmetic item, and cosmetic costume.

    "Full costumes do not mix and match pieces."– Steven Sharif

    The full plate this month says it is a "Costume Cosmetic Skin".

    I feel like the answer is clearly stated that they do not mix, but some of the conversations around skins on here make me question my understanding of the freedom we will have with this monthly items.
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  • @Vhaeyne The costume cosmetics that are included in each month's pre-order set are indeed a full piece, and when you put it on it will cover your entire appearance. You will not be able to mix and match/toggle those pieces individually (other than your helmet) when you're wearing the entire costume.

    This is partially why there is a separate category for accessories - those are able to be worn/equipped on a more individualized basis, so you can mix and match to your liking!

    In terms of applying dye to cosmetic items, previously we've stated that they would affect certain tagged portions, and the "dyeability" would depend on the costume specifically.

    Hopefully that helps clear things up a bit further! <3
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  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    @LieutenantToast Thank you very for taking the time to answer.

    It cleared everything up 100%.
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  • BigPapaBigPapa Member
    edited January 19
    I can't help but feel that once the game comes out people that have spent a fortune on cosmetics pre-launch will be absolutely livid with the lack of worth of those items in the final game, be it because you can find similar stuff in-game or the fact that they are one piece and not very flexible, or just realize what they've spent all their money on in general. But that will be entirely their own fault.

    I am not a fan of these pre-release purchases, mainly because there are so many of them. Having something to show as an early supporter is very cool; it could be just one or two sets though, instead of trying to create FOMO for whales, but that's the model Intrepid is going for, unfortunately.

    The in game cash shop is also questionable, despite the lack of a box cost. I would gladly pay an up front cost of $60 and never have a cash shop in game, but even without the box cost I am not sure if the game needs it to keep a positive cash flow. At the same time, I appreciate the transparency buy Steven, even though I completely disagree with the tactics employed here.
  • BigPapa wrote: »
    I can't help but feel that once the game comes out people that have spent a fortune on cosmetics pre-launch will be absolutely livid with the lack of worth of those items in the final game, be it because you can find similar stuff in-game or the fact that they are one piece and not very flexible, or just realize what they've spent all their money on in general. But that will be entirely their own fault.

    I am not a fan of these pre-release purchases, mainly because there are so many of them. Having something to show as an early supporter is very cool; it could be just one or two sets though, instead of trying to create FOMO for whales, but that's the model Intrepid is going for, unfortunately.

    The in game cash shop is also questionable, despite the lack of a box cost. I would gladly pay an up front cost of $60 and never have a cash shop in game, but even without the box cost I am not sure if the game needs it to keep a positive cash flow. At the same time, I appreciate the transparency buy Steven, even though I completely disagree with the tactics employed here.

    I dunno, I think most people spending money at the moment are doing it as a show of support rather than cos they have to have the cosmetic itself. Once the game hits, I'm sure a good 15-20mins of that time will be spent trying on all their different goodies.
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  • Taleof2CitiesTaleof2Cities Member
    edited January 19
    BigPapa wrote: »
    I can't help but feel that once the game comes out people that have spent a fortune on cosmetics pre-launch will be absolutely livid with the lack of worth of those items in the final game, be it because you can find similar stuff in-game or the fact that they are one piece and not very flexible, or just realize what they've spent all their money on in general. But that will be entirely their own fault.

    Huh?

    The thread title literally says "Misinformation about monthly cosmetics" ... yet your only interest is spreading more misinformation. :#

    Per the wiki: "Pre-order pack cosmetic skins cycle monthly and are never available again for purchase." While you might find similar items in-game compared to the pre-launch cosmetics, the pre-launch packs are themselves unique.

    BigPapa wrote: »
    The in game cash shop is also questionable, despite the lack of a box cost. I would gladly pay an up front cost of $60 and never have a cash shop in game, but even without the box cost I am not sure if the game needs it to keep a positive cash flow. At the same time, I appreciate the transparency buy Steven, even though I completely disagree with the tactics employed here.

    Again, quoting the wiki: "There are no pay-to-win gameplay benefits from any purchasable items.[3][4]"

    Since it's optional cosmetics only, you don't have to buy. Period.

    But the cash shop has no detrimental effect on the game itself.

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Pre-order_packs
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Cosmetics
  • LexLex Member, Phoenix Initiative, Avatar of the Phoenix, Alpha One
    Jamation wrote: »
    @Lex This might be a good post for the cosmetics page to help further clarify

    The wiki was updated with this info as it was posted here and on reddit <3
  • daveywavey wrote: »
    I dunno, I think most people spending money at the moment are doing it as a show of support rather than cos they have to have the cosmetic itself. Once the game hits, I'm sure a good 15-20mins of that time will be spent trying on all their different goodies.

    Absolutely, I never suggested otherwise. But the fact that they are giving so much money to support the game might leave them a little disappointed if it has little to no payoff in the end, which is exactly why I'm saying that's their own fault if it happens, and is not on Intrepid.
    Huh?

    The thread title literally says "Misinformation about monthly cosmetics" ... yet your only interest is spreading more misinformation. :#

    Per the wiki: "Pre-order pack cosmetic skins cycle monthly and are never available again for purchase." While you might find similar items in-game compared to the pre-launch cosmetics, the pre-launch packs are themselves unique.

    I don't see how there is any misinformation in my post. If you check out Steven's answer on this topic, you will find that while the full set won't be available in game, there will be similar looking armor pieces in the game. Until we see what those look like and how different they are, it's hard to make a judgment.
    Again, quoting the wiki: "There are no pay-to-win gameplay benefits from any purchasable items.[3][4]"

    Since it's optional cosmetics only, you don't have to buy. Period.

    But the cash shop has no detrimental effect on the game itself.

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Pre-order_packs
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Cosmetics

    I am fully aware that there is no pay to win in this game, if that was the case I wouldn't even bother following it, which I've been doing for several years now, despite not posting on the official forum.

    But you are surely aware that just because some items are cosmetic in nature it doesn't mean that everyone is okay with a cash shop? It would be far preferable if those cosmetics were earnable by doing in-game activities instead. If there was no cash shop, I would whole heartedly have no problem paying $60 up front for the box copy.
  • NeurathNeurath Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Once I learnt the cosmetic skins for toons couldn't be separated I stopped buying them. I only buy the lone cosmetic skins now to mix and match. Its not my forte to be like 'Look at me, look at me I'm so ancient I have the first skins.' It's more about making a toon I'm happy with, and, over time my tastes change.

    I don't mind the cash shop, it is good in the current format. I'd have hated an after launch cash shop to appear. I prefer upfront initiatives such as the current status quo.
  • sarkadosarkado Member, Leader of Men, Alpha One
    To me what Steven in stating is something similar to Guild Wars 2, I had costumes I could use only as a full set or others that I could piece together.

    I felt in whole the system was pretty well developed in GW2 and I'm confident once we actually get to see what is offered in AOC, it may have similar vibes.
  • SorfSorf Member
    Same thing they do with ESO to, although its going to be a lot of monthly cosmetic packs until launch so we'll see how good their creativity is :p
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  • sarkado wrote: »
    To me what Steven in stating is something similar to Guild Wars 2, I had costumes I could use only as a full set or others that I could piece together.

    I felt in whole the system was pretty well developed in GW2 and I'm confident once we actually get to see what is offered in AOC, it may have similar vibes.

    Correct. The reason you see people complaining about it sometimes in AoC though while everyone was okay with it in GW2 is that GW2 has no subscription fee.
  • VarkunVarkun Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    Guess I am lucky I just do not have the FOMO have purchased 5 cosmetic items in total. While I think that many of the items look fantastic my hope based on what Steven has said items earnt in game will be just as good looking. I will have far more respect and interest for items earnt in game rather than those obtained by opening your wallet.

    Having said that I do support the cosmetic shop as it will help to support the game.
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    Close your eyes spread your arms and always trust your cape.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Varkun wrote: »
    Having said that I do support the cosmetic shop as it will help to support the game.

    My thoughts exactly at this point. I would be way more likely to try and buy everything to build up a library of useable customization options if they were more open to use on a slot by slot basis, and dyable.

    Now I think I am just going to buy one if I like it as a whole. I still want to throw a few bones at the shop every once and a while. I value fun at 10$ an hour, I base that off the average costs of theme parks and movie tickets. I am pretty sure I will get at least 100 hours of fun a month out of AOC, so the 15$ sub fee is kind of a steal. I'll probably mostly buy mounts at this point though.
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  • @Vhaeyne The costume cosmetics that are included in each month's pre-order set are indeed a full piece, and when you put it on it will cover your entire appearance. You will not be able to mix and match/toggle those pieces individually (other than your helmet) when you're wearing the entire costume.

    This is partially why there is a separate category for accessories - those are able to be worn/equipped on a more individualized basis, so you can mix and match to your liking!

    In terms of applying dye to cosmetic items, previously we've stated that they would affect certain tagged portions, and the "dyeability" would depend on the costume specifically.

    Hopefully that helps clear things up a bit further! <3

    i just feel like i had to ask, is there a reason why its so incredibly expensive? i understand having a paywall but needing to pay 375 usd if you want a costume seems insane to me
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited January 20
    90Bubbel wrote: »
    i just feel like i had to ask, is there a reason why its so incredibly expensive? i understand having a paywall but needing to pay 375 usd if you want a costume seems insane to me

    It's not, the 375 is for alpha 2, and all of that months extras.

    After you buy the 375$ pack once, the shop looks like this moving forward.

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  • 90Bubbel wrote: »
    i just feel like i had to ask, is there a reason why its so incredibly expensive? i understand having a paywall but needing to pay 375 usd if you want a costume seems insane to me

    Heh yeah. I can't imagine spending that much, but people are buying them. Something is worth what someone else will pay for it. And, they're paying.
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  • WarthWarth Member
    Just look at it this way:
    Alpha 2 access gives you persistant access to the game for the duration of the alpha phase. Which might very well be 12-18 Months worth of game time in itself. If you merely had to pay subtime for the Alpha 2 Access, you'd probably have to pay equal amounts, while gaining no cosmetics.
  • McMackMuckMcMackMuck Member
    edited January 20
    daveywavey wrote: »

    I dunno, I think most people spending money at the moment are doing it as a show of support rather than cos they have to have the cosmetic itself. Once the game hits, I'm sure a good 15-20mins of that time will be spent trying on all their different goodies.

    Backers will have a day or two head start at launch which will hopefully be long enough for them to figure out if their shoes and handbag accessories match!
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  • Warth wrote: »
    Just look at it this way:
    Alpha 2 access gives you persistant access to the game for the duration of the alpha phase. Which might very well be 12-18 Months worth of game time in itself. If you merely had to pay subtime for the Alpha 2 Access, you'd probably have to pay equal amounts, while gaining no cosmetics.

    I suppose that's a good point, however you have to keep in mind that it's a game under development, in other words it has very limited content and you would kinda have to stretch it to call it "fun" at the moment. Thus it is definitely not worth $15 a month to play in the current state. Heck, I personally wouldn't even play it for free. Maybe I would check it out over a weekend just to see how it plays at the moment, but that's it. I don't want to spoil the release experience with a very rough version of the game, and frankly I hope most people understand this and not ruin the game for themselves. Even if I bought a supporter pack, I would not play the game, I would just buy it to support the team... and maybe for some bragging rights later.
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