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Should your clan be able to see your trade skill levels?
akabear
Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Just a thought, in other games there are often shouts out for particular grade/level crafters etc. so wondering if it would be considered a valuable thing to have in the in-house guild menu that lists all guild members to have a table along side player name, level, rank level in the clan menu/screen and also show selective skill stats for others to see?
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Most MMO's I've played have this. It is and should be somewhat standard.
If people in your guild want to know your stats, they should just ask. It is a simple mutual social interaction that is ground work for other social interactions. It's one of those convenience optimizations that sound nice on paper, but just make it harder to tell how a guild and people operate as a social unit when you are starting out. People with dedicated guilds can and do have other ways to operate their own spreadsheets that are going to be much more in depth than any ui anyway, and if they don't it's either not that important to them or they are just good at memorizing anyway.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
No, generally not. At least not automatically. Maybe make something available to post that information, but for many guilds this makes certain forms of growth harder since now they have to obfuscate information to prevent 'spies' or it changes the behaviour of new recruits in ways one might not consider good.
For established, powerful, or automatically tight-knit guilds it's great if they are only recruiting 'the best' or 'explicitly based on ingame achievements' or things like that, but it skews behaviour when a guild has something like, a single max level blacksmith who doesn't play that often but likes their flow, and then recruits who are just wandering in.
Human behaviour is complex and has lots of factors that 'color' it. Brains are uncomfortably predictable and habitual, and this is one of those places where even neutral or well-intentioned people are likely to have their behaviours shifted by information in ways that are often detrimental to social things.
While this is true, joining a guild is - as far as I am concerned - making that choice.
Why would anyone be in a guild they want to hide their crafting ability from?
Again, that's up to the individual. It's not up to you or me or anybody else but them to decide. Joining a guild is not a contract to sign over everything about you or your character.
Your crafting ability is not everything about your character - but i would argue that joining a guild IS signing over everything about your character.
Your guild is who you fight for, and who fights for you. Wanting to hide something as basic as what items you can make from these people is just odd.
Usually you want to avoid having randos bother you to craft such and such and of course, they have no mats or gold to cover the items.
I think an option to allow your crafting skills to be seen and by what class of person (guild member, friend list, gen pop, etc) is a good QoL item.
I never used "Master Crafter" titles but maybe include some of those instead for name display.
You have a very narrow vision of a guild and what function it serves. Not all guilds function how you think they should and people enjoy a variety of play styles. It should be a toggle, you lose nothing if it is a toggle and you can accommodate play-styles and motivations you may not intuitively account for.
Because in AOC you’re going to need group play to fully experience everything the game has to offer. Just because I’m in a guild doesn’t mean I want to spend the entire time crafting for random guildies because I have the best stats etc.
Having your stats freely available to everyone allows people to right click your character and be reminded oh yeah, I need XYZ and you fulfill that need. Do this for me.
You get some of that organically without displaying your stats, but there’s no doubt it’s exacerbated if you do show them.
Best system imho:
Toggle-able stats with the addition of permissions within the guild. Ie.) You can completely turn them off, have them available to certain members, etc
The kind of player that isn't joining a close knit guild, or a guild of top end players, is the kind of player that most needs their guild to fight for them.
People that join guilds that do not do this will soon learn their mistake and rectify it.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Yhr9WpjaDzw
Care to elaborate?
In a game that is potentially years from coming out, you know the 'correct' way a guild should operate in a video game designed to be enjoyed by many people with their subjective experience. And you are so correct and accurate that in fact, everyone else will see and 'learn their mistake and rectify it'. Good talk.
Boy, that sure is a lot of assumptions
May I ask why you see it necessary to see everyone's skills? Especially considering you're in such a tight knit group. Perhaps it could be a guild policy, some guilds could require having skills toggled... something tells me very few would make that a hard requirement.
If you want to hide it, then hide it. IMO it doesn’t have to be more complicated.
If you are in a guild, and you switch that toggle to saying no, you are saying that you are not willing to help out people in the guild. You are purposefully obfuscating the assistance you could offer.
Being a successful crafter in Ashes is going to require running caravans. Running caravans is going to require many hands. I am not going to use the guild to help you run caravans if you are not willing to help the guild out by making things for those that want them made.
It then behooves any guild leader to ask the question, if you are not in the guild to get or receive assistance, why are you in the guild? You do not need assistance from the guild, and you are not assisting the guild.
Guild membership is finite, why waste it on such a person?
Considering AOC will likely have greater inter-dependencies with players not able to undertake all crafts skills themselves and only select a limited number, I just put the question out there.
Perhaps as an alternative might be that players can flag themselves as available for X trade skill in the clan menu, what are thoughts on that?
You still haven’t answered my question as to why you’d want it. And my proposed solution covers what you desire:
1.) Guilds themselves have a toggle-able requirement for seeing player stats. If you are in a guild that has this enabled, you can’t turn off the visibility.
2.) Guilds that don’t have it toggled, players have the option to toggle it or not. In addition, they have tiered visibility. Ie ). Only X rank members can see it, not Y
In the end, such a solution would allow people like you to see all of peoples stats in your guild. And players can decide if they want to join into that or not. Why would you be opposed to such a solution?
Noting that they are a good healer, or max level enchanting or whatever... As long as that kind of function exists I would be happy.
It creates division.
Opting out of a system like this is literally giving the middle finger to your own guild. It is saying "sure, I'm here, but fuck you all, I won't help you. I won't help you so hard, I am not even going to let you know what I am not going to help you do".
I've played many games where there has been no choice, your characters crafting and adventure class/level are just outright on display. In 20 years it has not caused a single issue - why is it an issue now?
You haven’t answered any of my questions outside of “I don’t trust my guildmates”, and personally I don’t feel like that’s a good answer. Maybe others feel it’s adequate, I don’t.
Besides, the proposal I laid out only creates division in that people who want your system will join a guild like yours… others won’t. And some won’t care. Seems like wins all around. Is that even division?
I’ve been a part of games for 20 years where it was an option, or not even available. Why is it an issue now?
Anywho, I feel like I’ll just get the same answer of. “But it’s a big FU to guilds” so I’m probably done on this particular thread. If a guild is created with the toggle off, then it’s something they’re okay with and don’t think it’s a fuck you. Options man, they’re great.
As I said, basically every MMO I have played has had this.
What that means is that as far as I am concerned, having it is the defacto state.
As such, I don't need to convince people why I would want it, people need to convince me (well, Intrepid) why they don't want it.
So, why do you wish to hide the ways in which you can help your guild out?
Every game I have played has either not broadcast your skills or given the option to hide them.
I have given you why I personally would rather not. Scroll up and read, why are you avoiding the question?
In addition, why are you acting like there’s still a problem if your guild can make it a requirement but another guild might choose not to? Are you afraid people would be less likely to join your guild? I thought we established you don’t want them.
I just don’t see how there’s an issue giving everyone what they want in this case.
I don't see a problem with having this info be available to guild members, but since that's not the norm I don't see why it's necessary either.