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Balancing guilds with solo play

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Comments

  • derpderp Member
    NiKr wrote: »
    KeeperBrGO wrote: »
    from what I understand he suggested that individually you can have tools to value the time he puts in the character to play all the content that the game may have, this implies that the game can be experienced at any speed
    And the game already allows you to do so. You can sit in one location cutting down trees for a year and then sell those trees, buy some gear, level up and go enjoy some raiding with other people. What it doesn't give you is boosts for being alone, exactly because Intrepid wants to bring social gameplay back to mmos. You can still take your time getting to a point where a group is needed, but grouping up will still be required for high lvl content, and, if I understood derp correctly, he's fine with that.

    I'm fine with that so long as it doesnt become mandatory to be in a guild to complete high level content. If me and my homies want to kill a boss but we're not in a guild it should still be possible (I'll accept it would be more efficient to be in s guild)
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member
    edited June 19
    derp wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    KeeperBrGO wrote: »
    from what I understand he suggested that individually you can have tools to value the time he puts in the character to play all the content that the game may have, this implies that the game can be experienced at any speed
    And the game already allows you to do so. You can sit in one location cutting down trees for a year and then sell those trees, buy some gear, level up and go enjoy some raiding with other people. What it doesn't give you is boosts for being alone, exactly because Intrepid wants to bring social gameplay back to mmos. You can still take your time getting to a point where a group is needed, but grouping up will still be required for high lvl content, and, if I understood derp correctly, he's fine with that.

    I'm fine with that so long as it doesnt become mandatory to be in a guild to complete high level content. If me and my homies want to kill a boss but we're not in a guild it should still be possible (I'll accept it would be more efficient to be in s guild)

    Why would you not just make a guild for your friends......The idea people will refuse to me in a guild with anyone is a red flag. Like types that will join a guild to try to steal items or information then dip out constantly.

    There is no game where you need to be in a guild really to do content. The point of the guild is to have the numbers around you need to do things with more easily. If the content your trying to do recommends like 20 people and you have 5 friends, you just spam in world chat and form a group. Though be ready for people to pk, bring bigger groups, ninjas your group stealing gear, etc.

  • derpderp Member
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    derp wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    KeeperBrGO wrote: »
    from what I understand he suggested that individually you can have tools to value the time he puts in the character to play all the content that the game may have, this implies that the game can be experienced at any speed
    And the game already allows you to do so. You can sit in one location cutting down trees for a year and then sell those trees, buy some gear, level up and go enjoy some raiding with other people. What it doesn't give you is boosts for being alone, exactly because Intrepid wants to bring social gameplay back to mmos. You can still take your time getting to a point where a group is needed, but grouping up will still be required for high lvl content, and, if I understood derp correctly, he's fine with that.

    I'm fine with that so long as it doesnt become mandatory to be in a guild to complete high level content. If me and my homies want to kill a boss but we're not in a guild it should still be possible (I'll accept it would be more efficient to be in s guild)

    Why would you not just make a guild for your friends......The idea people will refuse to me in a guild with anyone is a red flag. Like types that will join a guild to try to steal items or information then dip out constantly.

    There is no game where you need to be in a guild really to do content. The point of the guild is to have the numbers around you need to do things with more easily. If the content your trying to do recommends like 20 people and you have 5 friends, you just spam in world chat and form a group. Though be ready for people to pk, bring bigger groups, ninjas your group stealing gear, etc.

    Was mentioned above but my reasoning for not wanting to join a guild is simply that I don't want to be forced into explicit organised events. I enjoy doing what I want to within the game without being told when I need to log in and what I need to do. Guilds always felt like work away from work. Maybe a more casual guild will be fine for me, I guess time will tell.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    You are missing the point and being disingenuous to my post like a amber heards lawyer team.
    I'll make some some other stuff then.
    LMAO
    You, like Amber Heard, are just making up some crazy bs.
    It's a shame her lawyers had to deal with that mess.


    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Very limit amount of storage.
    Increase crafting / market cost.
    Less access to quest that can give more item, gold or xp
    no bonus houses may apply.
    etc
    Being a non-citizen does not increase crafting/market cost.
    Being a citizen may decrease crafting/market cost.
    A person who chooses to not be a citizen may not care anything about the economy or how much gold they can hoard.
    Again, that's what friends are for.
    Non-citizens might be able to craft at friends' Freeholds and be perfectly content with the basic costs...not caring about citizen discounts. And some people are content to just gather materials so their friends can craft - so they already get discounts via bartering their services. This is especially true for hardcore time/casual challenge players.

    I dunno what you mean by "less access to quests and xp". You don't have to be a citizen of a Node to get quests from Node NPCs.


    Mag7spy wrote: »
    You are trying to beat around the bush with solo by saying they can still do "social thing". Something that systems can have a more strong armed approach to make them have to interact with people more else there is a lot of things they don't have access to. Where normally if they could do everything solo and not interact with people solo players will take the approach of just doing it yourself.
    I'm not beating around the bush and I am not trying anything...
    I have emphatically stated that there are numerous ways to play solo and also be highly social.
    I suppose incentives are techincally more strong-arming than no incentives. But, it's actually just incentives rather than strong-arming.

    Mag7spy wrote: »
    If you are being that stubborn preferring to be solo over joining a guild that supports your play style you normally will do things solo as that is the reason why you are solo. Having systems in place that boost solo will turn it more into a single experience game, all systems they have talked about and are creating are in contrast to it being a single player experience.
    I'm not the one being stubborn and disingenous.
    Incentives are not synonymous with strong-arming.
    Unless you're the mafia using gaslighting euphemisms.


    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Does a solo player interact with other people time to time...Yes. But the whole reason why they go solo at the very core is you not have to interact with people or groups.
    No. The primary reason to solo is so that you are not obligated to meet group or guild expectations or requirements. So that you have the freedom to play when and where you want to play and to play the build you like, rather than the (META) build a group or guild dictates you must play.


    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Else they would have again joined a small casual guild that fits their style, instead of being stubborn and saying i don't want to talk to people as much as possible.
    Maybe... maybe not.
    That assumes they know how to find a casual guild that suits their playstyle - and/or that joining a guild is even an interest.

    I stumbled upon a casual guild during the NWO beta.
    The twitch chat of a content creator playing the game created a guild with the only requirement being you were a follower of that twitch channel.
    And it was super casual. And we still mostly soloed, duoed or trioed.
    A few of us would join the content creator when he ran a dungeon for the day.
    If it hadn't been for that twitch channel I would not have joined a casual guild and I would not have been looking for one.

    Currently, I'm part of two gamer communities:
    TheoryForge - with my TheoryForge podcast co-hosts and its followers.
    DoP Crew - a gamers who follow and play games with the game devs, Snipehunter and Ombwah. The latter of whom is currently a lead quest designer for Ashes.
    Both of those communities form casual guilds in the various games we play together.
    But, that's not going to be a very common experience for solo players.


    Mag7spy wrote: »
    This post should be more so talking about how people can form groups not trying to create a solo player experience in a game focused on PvX and group content.
    This topic is exactly what it should be.
    Especially for a PvX game that supports solo play.
    Again, the devs already have some of the systems that the OP asks for.
    The design already covers tracking the wins and losses for individuals who participate in PvP battlegrounds (Caravans/Node Sieges) - and even has progression paths for individuals interested in those rankings.
    Don't have to join a guild for that.


    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Doesn't not mean there isn't solo content in the game btw, it just has a focus on groups and that is how a mmo should be and the reason classes are balanced as GROUPS not solo. Or is this another design you want changed?
    But...
    This topic is not really about solo "content".
    And it's not about combat being balanced for individuals, rather than for groups.
    The OP asked to have some method of being recognized as relevant even for those who have not joined a guild.
    And the prime example was having some form of rank that lets people know that individuals have an excellent track record for winning their Caravan/Siege events even when they don't belong to a guild or even when they are away from their home Node.
    And the primary purpose of that suggestion is so that people who may not recognize the individual who is far from their home Node might except the individual into their group - despite the individual not being a member of their guild or a citizen of the local Node.

    I know your bias is strong - but you really should try to focus on what's actually being discussed instead of just doubling down on your knee-jerk reactions to a different playstyle from your own.
  • derpderp Member
    Dygz wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    You are missing the point and being disingenuous to my post like a amber heards lawyer team.
    I'll make some some other stuff then.
    LMAO
    You, like Amber Heard, are just making up some crazy bs.
    It's a shame her lawyers had to deal with that mess.


    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Very limit amount of storage.
    Increase crafting / market cost.
    Less access to quest that can give more item, gold or xp
    no bonus houses may apply.
    etc
    Being a non-citizen does not increase crafting/market cost.
    Being a citizen may decrease crafting/market cost.
    A person who chooses to not be a citizen may not care anything about the economy or how much gold they can hoard.
    Again, that's what friends are for.
    Non-citizens might be able to craft at friends' Freeholds and be perfectly content with the basic costs...not caring about citizen discounts. And some people are content to just gather materials so their friends can craft - so they already get discounts via bartering their services. This is especially true for hardcore time/casual challenge players.

    I dunno what you mean by "less access to quests and xp". You don't have to be a citizen of a Node to get quests from Node NPCs.


    Mag7spy wrote: »
    You are trying to beat around the bush with solo by saying they can still do "social thing". Something that systems can have a more strong armed approach to make them have to interact with people more else there is a lot of things they don't have access to. Where normally if they could do everything solo and not interact with people solo players will take the approach of just doing it yourself.
    I'm not beating around the bush and I am not trying anything...
    I have emphatically stated that there are numerous ways to play solo and also be highly social.
    I suppose incentives are techincally more strong-arming than no incentives. But, it's actually just incentives rather than strong-arming.

    Mag7spy wrote: »
    If you are being that stubborn preferring to be solo over joining a guild that supports your play style you normally will do things solo as that is the reason why you are solo. Having systems in place that boost solo will turn it more into a single experience game, all systems they have talked about and are creating are in contrast to it being a single player experience.
    I'm not the one being stubborn and disingenous.
    Incentives are not synonymous with strong-arming.
    Unless you're the mafia using gaslighting euphemisms.


    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Does a solo player interact with other people time to time...Yes. But the whole reason why they go solo at the very core is you not have to interact with people or groups.
    No. The primary reason to solo is so that you are not obligated to meet group or guild expectations or requirements. So that you have the freedom to play when and where you want to play and to play the build you like, rather than the (META) build a group or guild dictates you must play.


    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Else they would have again joined a small casual guild that fits their style, instead of being stubborn and saying i don't want to talk to people as much as possible.
    Maybe... maybe not.
    That assumes they know how to find a casual guild that suits their playstyle - and/or that joining a guild is even an interest.

    I stumbled upon a casual guild during the NWO beta.
    The twitch chat of a content creator playing the game created a guild with the only requirement being you were a follower of that twitch channel.
    And it was super casual. And we still mostly soloed, duoed or trioed.
    A few of us would join the content creator when he ran a dungeon for the day.
    If it hadn't been for that twitch channel I would not have joined a casual guild and I would not have been looking for one.

    Currently, I'm part of two gamer communities:
    TheoryForge - with my TheoryForge podcast co-hosts and its followers.
    DoP Crew - a gamers who follow and play games with the game devs, Snipehunter and Ombwah. The latter of whom is currently a lead quest designer for Ashes.
    Both of those communities form casual guilds in the various games we play together.
    But, that's not going to be a very common experience for solo players.


    Mag7spy wrote: »
    This post should be more so talking about how people can form groups not trying to create a solo player experience in a game focused on PvX and group content.
    This topic is exactly what it should be.
    Especially for a PvX game that supports solo play.
    Again, the devs already have some of the systems that the OP asks for.
    The design already covers tracking the wins and losses for individuals who participate in PvP battlegrounds (Caravans/Node Sieges) - and even has progression paths for individuals interested in those rankings.
    Don't have to join a guild for that.


    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Doesn't not mean there isn't solo content in the game btw, it just has a focus on groups and that is how a mmo should be and the reason classes are balanced as GROUPS not solo. Or is this another design you want changed?
    But...
    This topic is not really about solo "content".
    And it's not about combat being balanced for individuals, rather than for groups.
    The OP asked to have some method of being recognized as relevant even for those who have not joined a guild.
    And the prime example was having some form of rank that lets people know that individuals have an excellent track record for winning their Caravan/Siege events even when they don't belong to a guild or even when they are away from their home Node.
    And the primary purpose of that suggestion is so that people who may not recognize the individual who is far from their home Node might except the individual into their group - despite the individual not being a member of their guild or a citizen of the local Node.

    I know your bias is strong - but you really should try to focus on what's actually being discussed instead of just doubling down on your knee-jerk reactions to a different playstyle from your own.

    I think you just cast expeliamus irl
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member
    Dygz wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    You are missing the point and being disingenuous to my post like a amber heards lawyer team.
    I'll make some some other stuff then.
    LMAO
    You, like Amber Heard, are just making up some crazy bs.
    It's a shame her lawyers had to deal with that mess.


    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Very limit amount of storage.
    Increase crafting / market cost.
    Less access to quest that can give more item, gold or xp
    no bonus houses may apply.
    etc
    Being a non-citizen does not increase crafting/market cost.
    Being a citizen may decrease crafting/market cost.
    A person who chooses to not be a citizen may not care anything about the economy or how much gold they can hoard.
    Again, that's what friends are for.
    Non-citizens might be able to craft at friends' Freeholds and be perfectly content with the basic costs...not caring about citizen discounts. And some people are content to just gather materials so their friends can craft - so they already get discounts via bartering their services. This is especially true for hardcore time/casual challenge players.

    I dunno what you mean by "less access to quests and xp". You don't have to be a citizen of a Node to get quests from Node NPCs.


    Mag7spy wrote: »
    You are trying to beat around the bush with solo by saying they can still do "social thing". Something that systems can have a more strong armed approach to make them have to interact with people more else there is a lot of things they don't have access to. Where normally if they could do everything solo and not interact with people solo players will take the approach of just doing it yourself.
    I'm not beating around the bush and I am not trying anything...
    I have emphatically stated that there are numerous ways to play solo and also be highly social.
    I suppose incentives are techincally more strong-arming than no incentives. But, it's actually just incentives rather than strong-arming.

    Mag7spy wrote: »
    If you are being that stubborn preferring to be solo over joining a guild that supports your play style you normally will do things solo as that is the reason why you are solo. Having systems in place that boost solo will turn it more into a single experience game, all systems they have talked about and are creating are in contrast to it being a single player experience.
    I'm not the one being stubborn and disingenous.
    Incentives are not synonymous with strong-arming.
    Unless you're the mafia using gaslighting euphemisms.


    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Does a solo player interact with other people time to time...Yes. But the whole reason why they go solo at the very core is you not have to interact with people or groups.
    No. The primary reason to solo is so that you are not obligated to meet group or guild expectations or requirements. So that you have the freedom to play when and where you want to play and to play the build you like, rather than the (META) build a group or guild dictates you must play.


    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Else they would have again joined a small casual guild that fits their style, instead of being stubborn and saying i don't want to talk to people as much as possible.
    Maybe... maybe not.
    That assumes they know how to find a casual guild that suits their playstyle - and/or that joining a guild is even an interest.

    I stumbled upon a casual guild during the NWO beta.
    The twitch chat of a content creator playing the game created a guild with the only requirement being you were a follower of that twitch channel.
    And it was super casual. And we still mostly soloed, duoed or trioed.
    A few of us would join the content creator when he ran a dungeon for the day.
    If it hadn't been for that twitch channel I would not have joined a casual guild and I would not have been looking for one.

    Currently, I'm part of two gamer communities:
    TheoryForge - with my TheoryForge podcast co-hosts and its followers.
    DoP Crew - a gamers who follow and play games with the game devs, Snipehunter and Ombwah. The latter of whom is currently a lead quest designer for Ashes.
    Both of those communities form casual guilds in the various games we play together.
    But, that's not going to be a very common experience for solo players.


    Mag7spy wrote: »
    This post should be more so talking about how people can form groups not trying to create a solo player experience in a game focused on PvX and group content.
    This topic is exactly what it should be.
    Especially for a PvX game that supports solo play.
    Again, the devs already have some of the systems that the OP asks for.
    The design already covers tracking the wins and losses for individuals who participate in PvP battlegrounds (Caravans/Node Sieges) - and even has progression paths for individuals interested in those rankings.
    Don't have to join a guild for that.


    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Doesn't not mean there isn't solo content in the game btw, it just has a focus on groups and that is how a mmo should be and the reason classes are balanced as GROUPS not solo. Or is this another design you want changed?
    But...
    This topic is not really about solo "content".
    And it's not about combat being balanced for individuals, rather than for groups.
    The OP asked to have some method of being recognized as relevant even for those who have not joined a guild.
    And the prime example was having some form of rank that lets people know that individuals have an excellent track record for winning their Caravan/Siege events even when they don't belong to a guild or even when they are away from their home Node.
    And the primary purpose of that suggestion is so that people who may not recognize the individual who is far from their home Node might except the individual into their group - despite the individual not being a member of their guild or a citizen of the local Node.

    I know your bias is strong - but you really should try to focus on what's actually being discussed instead of just doubling down on your knee-jerk reactions to a different playstyle from your own.



    When i see a thread title balancing guilds vrs solo that has a lot of meaning that solo elements can actually hinder fun group play. But kk then lets get back to the original point on how the idea is not well thought out or just flawed to be skew to only be thinking of solo before overarching gameplay
    Just as guilds can acquire reputation, so could mercenaries. At higher reputation levels your price as a mercanary would automatically increase. Reputation would be based on successful "missions"(hires) and feedback from guild seniors (e.g. a simple rating system).

    Though I do agree guilds should have a rank reputation as everyone enjoys some form of leaderboards. A leaderboard for mercenaries is not needed. What the leaderboard should be is a per player bases that gives you a rank , number, etc based on what you do.

    Leaderboards have nothing to do with solo play as far as a topic is concerned as it is a fun stat tracking useable by everyone. The point to create a weird segregation on a system that tries to reward a player for being solo in a group focused game is counter productive. If there is a rank per player that applies to everyone guild or guildless that is how it should be.

    Which also goes back to the original thread name giving people system that pats them on the back for being guildless should be avoided. For the fact that guilds growing in the game helps create more content for people to experience.

  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member
    edited June 19
    I think you just cast expeliamus irl

    I am pretty much vader (from obi wan) for PvE players so not really. He was wise to use you against me....I'll just have to redirect to your post and the title of the thread.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited June 20
    You can say it's flawed or skewed all you like, but still...
    The suggested mechanic is mostly already in the Ashes game design.
    And, yes, used by everyone instead of strong-arming people to join a guild.
    Which is precisely what the OP wants.
  • SigtyrSigtyr Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Create a guild called "Introverts Anonymous". No requirements, no discord, no need to acknowledge the existence of other members but still get to take advantage of buffs.

    Also not sure if it was mentioned in this thread yet because I just skimmed, but I believe that large guilds will be unable to get as many buffs as small guilds as a sort of soft anti-zerg mechanic. In order to grow a guild past a certain point you will have to forgo stat buffs in favor of max member buffs.

    Food for thought if the main concern here is not being able to thrive as a competitive solo player.
  • NiKrNiKr Member
    Sigtyr wrote: »
    Create a guild called "Introverts Anonymous". No requirements, no discord, no need to acknowledge the existence of other members but still get to take advantage of buffs.
    That's gonna be my guild :D all the benefits and none the drawbacks
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member
    NiKr wrote: »
    Sigtyr wrote: »
    Create a guild called "Introverts Anonymous". No requirements, no discord, no need to acknowledge the existence of other members but still get to take advantage of buffs.
    That's gonna be my guild :D all the benefits and none the drawbacks

    Which i think honestly is cool in itself and adds a story and some rp.
  • NiKrNiKr Member
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Which i think honestly is cool in itself and adds a story and some rp.
    That's what I'm counting on. Make a reputation for myself and the guild of "all newbies/casuals welcome w/o any requirements". Help people out with whatever they want and just provide them with a story from the game. I've had several guilds that were the main reason I'd play on a server and would then be the main memory from that server. The comradery and just cozy vibes would enrich the game's experience. I hope to provide the same to others, to pay it forward in a way. And if I ever decide to go hardcore for a while, I could always change the GL to my alt and have any volunteers be my officers.
  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    derp wrote: »
    Otr wrote: »
    I think being in a guild should offer advantages. And well organized guilds should have advantages over the weakly bound ones.
    However if solo players forfeit those benefits, they should be able to survive.
    But solo players should not demand to be able to fully experience all aspects of the game. Is like telling developers to not add content specific for guilds.

    I'm not against guild content but they're talking about straight up stat buffs via enchantments and stuff. The moment this happens it makes it impossible for a solo/small team to be viable in PvP/pve, therefore making it MANDATORY to be in a guild.

    That's called risk vs reward.
    GW2 and wow are not MMO's. They are single player games with other people in the way. Heard as much about FF14.
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    derp wrote: »
    I like your approach but why should it be necessary for a solo player to create a guild to play solo? Also a solo player would definitely not progress the guild quick enough. I read that they are planning to have a sliding scale of buffs Vs number of players, if this is the case i would love for the scale to slide all the way down to 1 so a solo player gets the most buffs at the expense of not having other guildies to enjoy guild content with

    You're sticking on the word guild too much. Their guild system is your "mercenaries" system in a way. Smaller combat focused guilds are going to be possible, and get buffed from their guild system for being smaller in number. Larger guilds hiring smaller guilds will be something that happens.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member
    edited June 21
    derp wrote: »
    I like your approach but why should it be necessary for a solo player to create a guild to play solo? Also a solo player would definitely not progress the guild quick enough. I read that they are planning to have a sliding scale of buffs Vs number of players, if this is the case i would love for the scale to slide all the way down to 1 so a solo player gets the most buffs at the expense of not having other guildies to enjoy guild content with

    You're sticking on the word guild too much. Their guild system is your "mercenaries" system in a way. Smaller combat focused guilds are going to be possible, and get buffed from their guild system for being smaller in number. Larger guilds hiring smaller guilds will be something that happens.

    These solo players are cracked legit want to do everything on their own, interact with no one and get all the perks.

    Solo player technically can do that and get all the perks you just have a guild with only you and done.
  • VaknarVaknar Moderator, Member, Staff
    I think you can do all of this without a system coded in place. Make your own solo "guild". Become reputable on your own. Take contracts from larger guilds... Demand your own pay based on what you know you are worth.... i mean, can you make a system better than just talking to and being familiar with those around you?

    I was actually thinking the same as this after reading the OP. I think your idea is very interesting, @derp ! As @PenguinPaladin said, even if this feature weren't in Ashes of Creation, I believe there will be systems in place that will make this a possible gameplay style of your choice!
    community_management.gif
  • BalanzBalanz Member
    I believe that shared interests, like groups, guilds, alliances, crafters, and citizens, will be the largest check on PvP abuse, much more than Corruption. You will be interacting with Guilds regardless.

    I also suspect that being grouped, even temporarily, might be the best defense against PvP.

    That suggests that Guilds are a strong advantage. If there a lot of players like the OP, I suspect there will be a lot of small "Pop Up" Guilds that like minded players can join or leave easily.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    This topic isn't really about PvP, though.
  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    My solution, since sometimes I want to be social and sometimes I don't, is for my main to be in a guild and an alt or two not to be. If I am social, I log in my main and do stuff with my guild. If I'm not social, I log into a crafter or my toon which hunts down corrupted players...who have the best drops in the game!
  • NishUKNishUK Member
    tautau wrote: »
    If I'm not social, I log into a crafter or my toon which hunts down corrupted players...who have the best drops in the game!

    Is that your cat side talking? o__O
  • CraikenCraiken Member
    derp wrote: »
    I'm not against guild content but they're talking about straight up stat buffs... making it MANDATORY to be in a guild.

    I'd like to second this concern. Simply joining a guild should not make a player better at solo activities. Why should being able see Guild Chat make someone better at swinging a sword? In my opinion, that's an inelegant mechanic that breaks immersion.
  • OtrOtr Member
    Craiken wrote: »
    derp wrote: »
    I'm not against guild content but they're talking about straight up stat buffs... making it MANDATORY to be in a guild.

    I'd like to second this concern. Simply joining a guild should not make a player better at solo activities. Why should being able see Guild Chat make someone better at swinging a sword? In my opinion, that's an inelegant mechanic that breaks immersion.

    Wiki states that PvP is not balanced toward solo play, but is in Arena context:

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Arenas
    An idea currently under consideration is to have players build out a champion that they can then fight in the arena, rather then using their regular characters. These champions can be equipped with gear and skills via quests, along with materials and gold to make the champion stronger.[23]
    The reason for the champion idea is because the game isn't balanced for 1v1 PvP. Utilizing champions makes arena combat more of a level playing ground.[23]
  • CraikenCraiken Member
    Karthos wrote: »
    Maybe you just don't want to play MMORPGs.... This is like going to a Mexican Restaurant and saying "I don't like Mexican food, please make me a hamburger".

    IMO, solo play has a place in any fantasy roleplaying world. Make room for the hermit wizard, the knight errant, the wandering bard, and all the other classic fantasy loners. You may want to join the king's feast in a crowded hall, but someone else might prefer sitting with their hood up in the shadowy corner of a less than reputable tavern.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member
    Honestly hope guild is tied to your account, don't liek the joining multiple guild things. Though it shouldn't be as bad in this game compared to lost ark. Just causes more issues even more so with you having so
    Craiken wrote: »
    Karthos wrote: »
    Maybe you just don't want to play MMORPGs.... This is like going to a Mexican Restaurant and saying "I don't like Mexican food, please make me a hamburger".

    IMO, solo play has a place in any fantasy roleplaying world. Make room for the hermit wizard, the knight errant, the wandering bard, and all the other classic fantasy loners. You may want to join the king's feast in a crowded hall, but someone else might prefer sitting with their hood up in the shadowy corner of a less than reputable tavern.

    The game is balanced around group play not solo play, this is a mmorpg after all not a single player rpg. The content int he game is around group pvp including smaller groups and massive wars. I don't see this rpg point where you need to be a hermit wizard in a mmorpg, what does that have to do with gameplay? If you want to rp that you can rp that, if you want to do high end content in the game you will need a group.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited June 26
    The OP asks about having a method of recognizing unaffiliated, itinerant, mercenary player characters who have a stellar combat record for Sieges and Caravans so that they can be picked up by various groups far across the world.
    You are just being triggered by the term solo. In this case, solo does not mean what you think it means.

    But, yes, Ashes also supports solo play. So, there is a place for solo play in Ashes - and that still is not the same thing as "single-player" or non-social.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member
    Dygz wrote: »
    The OP asks about having a method of recognizing unaffiliated, itinerant, mercenary player characters who have a stellar combat record for Sieges and Caravans so that they can be picked up by various groups far across the world.
    You are just being triggered by the term solo. In this case, solo does not mean what you think it means.

    But, yes, Ashes also supports solo play. So, there is a place for solo play in Ashes - and that still is not the same thing as "single-player" or non-social.

    You can be solo and join a guild, i know exactly what it means lmao.
    Make room for the hermit wizard, the knight errant, the wandering bard, and all the other classic fantasy loners

    You can do that and be in a guild, if you are trying to make a point of avoiding of being in any guilds or doing group content that is to your own disadvantage. The rp fantasy to be a lone wolf and refuse to use the guild system to get whatever buffs you get from it is your own issue. Its a group oriented game and that is the vision for it. All mmorpgs have solo play in it, that isn't anything new. If you are going to try and say I'm rping so because i rp in this way i should have the guild bonus while being guildless as well I think that is just silly.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited June 27
    Yeah. You can be solo and not join a guild. But, still want to join groups... and have some method of people inviting you by checking your wins/losses record - assuming you have high wins.

    The suggestion is to be accepted into groups on the other side of the world even when they don't know you personally. They can recognize your worth by checking your rep.
    And there is already a feature for that in the Ashes game design that does most of it.
  • ggFableggFable Member
    Personally, I have nothing against solo players, they run doing their own thing, but I think that players who do not want to be part of a community that would be interested in developing the region, etc., certainly should not be talking here about what or balance, you play in MMO game, be kind to follow the rule of the genre, if you are a solo player, then farm do the job, etc., but do not climb with the squeal that now the guild players have more opportunities.
    Maximum is the idea of mercenaries, there are quite a few good players who, for one reason or another, can not be in the guilds, etc., here's a market for mercenaries would be ideal for them.
    And these whiners loners, who on every form of MMORPG crying that it is unnecessary to do DPS meters in dungeons, etc., because they get kicked because they only drag the group to the bottom not wanting to develop, do not need the MMORPG community, they do not help the genre evolve, because they do not want to get better themselves!

    p.s. English is not my native language, so forgive me if somewhere wrongly expressed the thought o:)
  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    derp wrote: »
    Honestly my main concern is balancing. I would like guilds to offer horizontal progression, as soon as it becomes vertical progression it becomes a problem in my opinion

    I would somewhat argue the opposite.

    Horizontal progression vs more members is not equal?

    Having more members is a form of vertical progression.

    Now the amount of vertical progression offered to a smaller guild needs to be very precise. Balancing is important. But strictly Horizontal progression would make having smaller guilds somewhat pointless, and all guilds should just go for size.
  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited June 27
    For the sake of this discussion, im going to list my understanding of the guild system. How i believe it manages to balance "solo" (small group, or more friend focused) play, and hardcore players and large guild concepts.

    First. One of the things that came up was the rate at which one player could level a one man guild... that argument is not valid. How quickly one player becomes the best vs a group of players is obviously not "balanced" and it shouldnt be. If you can get ahead on your own, the social structure of an mmo would become meaningless.



    The guild system, of potential guild points spent on more members, which is both vertical and horizontal power increase. Vs guild points spent on passive buffs or active skill availability.

    It all depends on the depth of the system. Atm people are imagining do i want 20 friends, and vertical buffs vs 200 friends. I believe the guild system will be deeper than that. I see passive buffs durring certain situations. Like 10% more damage and damage resistance while guarding a caravan. I see crafting focused buffs. I see gathering focused buffs. I see very weak overall general combat buffs. And powerful crafting buffs, powerful, specific combat buffs like seiges and caravan interactions. Now i dont know if the system will be so in depth. But it needs to be. More members gives both vertical and horizontal progression. Smaller guilds that want to become usefull towards a purpose, like guarding caravans, or being a nodes crafting service, or being a perfered gathering party. They need some vertical progression to be wanted for these rolls.

    Guilds should be able to "vertically scale" towards their perferd role. We just need to balance that a guild cant do everything. Just like with classes. Everyone, solo or not, needs to be able to become something useful, but not be able to do everything. Limiting how much one can do, while still letting them be really good at what they want to do, is the key in making a world where people need one another. And thats what ashes is aming to be.


    I dont see why 15 "solo" players couldnt meet up. Talk about how they want to do their own thing, but also need some of the guild passive buffs. And then come together, make a mutual guild thats only there to level the guild up enough for their wanted buffs, and then go their own way. And once these small temp guilds arise, you'll have a whole fleet of random, not at cap solo guilds with the buffs you may want as a solo player, so just try and make some loose friends and join one that fits your play style....
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