Intrepid should be careful on taking everyone's feedback and here is why

Gamers don't usually know what they are talking about or what they want. Most people that are happy with something don't bother saying they are happy - Everyone that doesn't like something will complain about it - and this can be an issue when they open threads asking for feedback.

A few months back some people complained about the Orcs, Intrepid changed it, now other people are complaining about it saying they liked the old ones more, if they change it again (I hope not, it's looking amazing) I guarantee there will still be people complaining about it.

People don't understand that green is not the only skin only - that the face is just a base model - that the body will be customizable or that intrepid is planning to have a Solid character creator... yet they give feedback asking for changes.

I believe Intrepid can make a good game, but I have no faith in gamers, everyone wants something different, this goes for all the other design aspects, especially combat, I want Intrepid to just pick something and move forward, I would hate to see Ashes end up being a Frankenstein of a game that tried to make everyone happy but ended up making no one happy.

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Mag7spy

Think this kind of thing depends feedback is good as it gives a general idea of what people want and if they are going in the right direction. The people that gives input or want things to change has to be looked at on the types of people and if things are overly like a echo chambers, and the number of people giving said feedback. It is good they push to get more people to give feedback so they can get a larger sample pool though it is difficult to get so many people giving input as most just want to play the final release or it being closer tor release at least. Why own guild might check the forum if i link things every so often but they won't really actively join and talk about things they like or not or give feedback, which is the case for most people.

As long as they keep to their vision, see the feedback and understand it and know what they need to do to make the game they want without reducing it to meet all random request from people. Something we saw in the combat stream where Steven mentioned things need to work for pvp as well and didn't want to overly slow movement when you are in combat.

Azherae

Intrepid is mostly doing it right so I don't have any problems either.

You start from telling the community "This is what we as the planners and developers want, here are our goals and here are the reasons". This is Steven's project, after all, it's not 'a thing that he has to do the way some stakeholders want'.

Then you take feedback on how much to tweak it, or to figure out if a massive amount of your core audience dislikes something that you took for granted but aren't strongly committed to as a design goal/core.

Character appearances are unlikely to be a strongly committed design goal/core.

Iridianny

I think they are going down a good path of taking player feedback seriously since it builds community loyalty. I made a lot of comments about the art style and now they are making changes to it that are finally making me feel excited to play the game.
It seems they are capable of deciphering what feedback enhances their goals and vision of the game and what doesn't fit it. It doesn't seem like they are going to do something that will go against that vision just to appease one group of players and instead give everyone a game they can enjoy regardless.

PenguinPaladin

You must realize that iteration happens. As they said, the first model never makes it in. Its a step by step process. It always is one.

First attempt, too "realistic" and not what i want

Second attempt "too cartoony" and not what others want.

Its a step by step progression. We're seeing ashes in actual development, not just a port over. Dont assume anything is set in stone you're just going to dissapoint yourself when it changes, even if that change is tiny.

PenguinPaladin

Otr wrote: »

PenguinPaladin wrote: »

... Dont assume anything is set in stone you're just going to disappoint yourself when it changes, even if that change is tiny.

Hard to follow this advice, when you like something but changes.

Yes, but its probably going to be some back and forth in the design. This second iteration will get its feed back, people will voice how they liked the old one, and the end design will end up somewhere in between, or something new anyway. Its a base model, as long as the character creator is done right, it shouldnt hold that much weight.

Mag7spy

People need to remember you can heavily adjust the proportions and such.

Liniker

So, when I say gamers are stupid, don't know what they want and don't research/understand a game before giving feedback - this is what I'm talking about

https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/53127/my-guess-is-that-there-is-money-in-the-game#latest

Veeshan

Dygz wrote: »

The New World alpha players I know say that the devs ignored what the testers asked for.
The former New World dev I know says the same thing.

The original plan for a PvP game was more of a gankfest than anticipated, so someone told them to implement PvE quests at the last minute. But, the quest designers did not even have decent tools for that.
And, still the devs did not listen much to PvE quest feedback, either.
That's what I was told.

hard to cram an entire game of pve content in the last 2 months of development or something since they already gave a release date before Pve players cried about getting ganked to much i guess but yeah they probaly should of stayed with there sight and they might have more member today than they do now

CROW3

Liniker wrote: »

So, when I say gamers are stupid, don't know what they want and don't research/understand a game before giving feedback - this is what I'm talking about.

Sheesh - that thread is a hot mess. Not sure that's a 'gamer' problem, though. I don't think Intrepid will have a problem seeing the obvious there and ignoring it accordingly.

Azherae

CROW3 wrote: »

Liniker wrote: »

So, when I say gamers are stupid, don't know what they want and don't research/understand a game before giving feedback - this is what I'm talking about.

Sheesh - that thread is a hot mess. Not sure that's a 'gamer' problem, though. I don't think Intrepid will have a problem seeing the obvious there and ignoring it accordingly.

There's no indication in that thread that the poster didn't research the game (much more indication that they did, more than most do), not a ton of indication that they don't understand the game, and not much that one can consider 'feedback', it's just them complaining that the game is 'going to fail' because things aren't done the way they think solves a problem.

A real problem, for which they offer a real solution that a lot of people just wouldn't like.

If you told me that I had a very binary choice between 'this game has zero actual currency' and 'this game has a currency that can be directly converted from time spent and optional currency sinks' I'd definitely have to think about it, and I don't think I'd pick the second one.

In this case, even if you dislike the way the argument is made, or the basis of it, it doesn't imply either of the things you said, so as usual I consider it better to leave it to Intrepid to decide if they care about anything said by a person who basically goes 'Aww this game doesn't do thing I like/think is necessary, that sucks it's gonna fail'.

But that's a matter of comparing the person's ideals and goals to Steven's/the team's, not a matter of 'this person is stupid and doesn't know what they want'.

CROW3

Azherae wrote: »

In this case, even if you dislike the way the argument is made, or the basis of it, it doesn't imply either of the things you said, so as usual I consider it better to leave it to Intrepid to decide if they care about anything said by a person who basically goes 'Aww this game doesn't do thing I like/think is necessary, that sucks it's gonna fail'.

Maybe - I think this can get very subjective, very quickly. My point, which aligns to what I said at the beginning of this thread, is I don't think it's accurate or helpful to judge feedback as x, y, or z from gamers as a general group. 'Gamers' in 2022 includes hundreds of millions of people.

Azherae

CROW3 wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

In this case, even if you dislike the way the argument is made, or the basis of it, it doesn't imply either of the things you said, so as usual I consider it better to leave it to Intrepid to decide if they care about anything said by a person who basically goes 'Aww this game doesn't do thing I like/think is necessary, that sucks it's gonna fail'.

Maybe - I think this can get very subjective, very quickly. My point, which aligns to what I said at the beginning of this thread, is I don't think it's accurate or helpful to judge feedback as x, y, or z from gamers as a general group. 'Gamers' in 2022 includes hundreds of millions of people.

Yes, Intrepid themselves are very 'passion' based.

I'll always suggest being measured in this because I've watched many teams have internal friction because some person outside it decides that the 'current path' is a monolithic decision the team is supporting that can't change (not in a game design situation more than once, though).

A passion project has more reason to listen to the passionate than one that's trying to check a specific set of boxes to have a given outcome, so your point is probably the strongest way to interpret it. Players with a passion for nearly any component of an MMORPG exist because gamers are varied and MMORPGs are often VERY inclusive even when they have a clear goal, by their nature.

Obviously I'm in the camp of 'analytics will do its thing'.

PenguinPaladin

Otr wrote: »

I have to confess that I told Intrepid that the sword fighting presented one month ago was perfect.
I want the alpha 2 sooner, dammit!

Its people like you that disgust me. We all signed up for a game that will never release, how dare you try and change that.

Caww

until they make PvP voluntary we shouldn't worry, they seem to be just asking the questions

TheDarkSorcerer

Wanted to post this screenshot from Elder Scrolls Online PTS Forum. This is a huge reason i'm here as I have never met a company like Intrepid who actually listen and values customer feedback.

PenguinPaladin

Ever since liniker was trying to defend gold buyers, i stopped paying too much attention to him.

Liniker

PenguinPaladin wrote: »

Ever since liniker was trying to defend gold buyers, i stopped paying too much attention to him.

@PenguinPaladin the fuck? you either talking with the wrong Liniker or you just straight up lying - which wouldn't surprise me coming from people in this forums.

RMT is something I despise in video games for over 15 years, I would never defend it, no idea why would you pull that out your ass but get your facts straight next time.

PenguinPaladin

@Liniker well im not going to go hunt down the post, but it was probably a week ago, 2 weeks at most. Discussion about bots and rmt's like every other day here. And i was explaining how intrepid plans on going after and baning BOTH gold buyers and sellers. And you went on a rant how you've never heard of any mmo going after gold buyers before. Then someone showed up with the link to the wiki where it talks about it, you glanced at the wiki, said it never said anything about gold buyers specifically, to which i went in the same link, screenshot the quote of steve saying even gold buyers will be "stripped" temporarily banned, or permanently banned depending on the severity of the transaction. And you magiclly decided you had nothing else to say in that thread anymore.... I have thought less of you ever since.

I found it and bumped it.

Liniker

@PenguinPaladin Ok now I understand, basically you are just stupid.

I literally made one question in that post out of curiosity as I couldn't recall a quote from intrepid about banning *Buyers

Liniker wrote: »

Do you have a quote for the permanent bans for gold buyers part?

and following that I said that I personally never played a game that a company cared about banning buyers.

that's all I said, and because of that you think I am defending it?

heres a quote from me in May, a month before that suggesting intrepid to BAN all sellers and buyers.

Liniker wrote: »

So, I wanna recommend a launch event - I would love to see all the GMs and staff ingame next to the divine gates on the first day of beta/launch when the servers are up - they could be using NPCs or even god skins, and from time to time a message would be shown on everyone's screen saying they will be actively banning gold sellers AND gold buyers as well as exploiters hackers etc and every time someone got banned we would hear a lightning sound and the character name would be shown in the sky like in the hunger games and in a global message so people know you are taking action against it. It's critical to let all the RMT'ers both sellers and buyers know that they will get banned and if this is done before launch it's even better so they can all fk-off and go back to AA or WoW.

duh

PenguinPaladin

Liniker wrote: »

@PenguinPaladin Ok now I understand, basically you are just stupid as fuck.

I literally made one fucking question in that post out of Curiosity as I couldn't recall a quote from intrepid about banning Sellers

Liniker wrote: »

so, can you name one game with Sub Fee that prevents RMT ?

and following that I said that I personally never played a game that a company cared about banning sellers.

That's all I said, and because of that you think I am defending it? Seriously, how fucking stupid can you be?

heres a quote from me in May, a month before that suggesting intrepid to BAN all sellers and buyers.

Liniker wrote: »

So, I wanna recommend a launch event - I would love to see all the GMs and staff ingame next to the divine gates on the first day of beta/launch when the servers are up - they could be using NPCs or even god skins, and from time to time a message would be shown on everyone's screen saying they will be actively banning gold sellers AND gold buyers as well as exploiters hackers etc and every time someone got banned we would hear a lightning sound and the character name would be shown in the sky like in the hunger games and in a global message so people know you are taking action against it. It's critical to let all the RMT'ers both sellers and buyers know that they will get banned and if this is done before launch it's even better so they can all fk-off and go back to AA or WoW.

duh

Good to know, because based on that thread you just ditched once information contradicting what you seemed to be saying came up, i put 2 and 2 togeather. Ill update my opinion of you then.

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