Couple things came to mind after reading the thread:
1. Bards might give a run speed buff to their group. This is how bards are in a lot of games, that’s one of the main advantages of bringing a bard.
2. People will be dismounted if they take damage. This is something that’s universal for most games.
If someone’s being chased by a group with a bard on foot, and they’re dismounted so can’t ride their mount away, saying people can get away with their mount seems highly unrealistic.
2. People will be dismounted if they take damage. This is something that’s universal for most games.
If someone’s being chased by a group with a bard on foot, and they’re dismounted so can’t ride their mount away, saying people can get away with their mount seems highly unrealistic.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Mounted_combat Some crowd-control abilities can dismount a mounted player.[7] In that case the mount would persist with its own health pool and other stats.[8]
So not just taking damage. And CCs don't work on greens, so they can get away easily. And for the flagged people trying to run away, we'll just have to see what kind of CD those CCs have and what kind of range/cast speed too. And if it's a long range low cd fast cast speed ability - it'll just be added to the equation of "do I want to flag against this attacker(s)?"
The below video from the Intrepid YouTube channel might be from 5 years ago, but it very well could be the same direction they're still going with stealth. It looks pretty close to true invisibility if you stop moving. Though the "indicators of stealth" is just a bit of wiggly vision around the person hiding, almost like a heat shimmer. Moving makes the wiggles stand out. Someone trying to hide as a rogue just needs to keep their cool and pick their spot carefully.
Hiding with that type of stealth can be very effective if you hide near some foliage and just don't move. Anyone running around the area (or maybe even walking and not perfectly observing their surroundings) would be highly likely to just not see this person:
I think you are probably right. I just can't help thinking of the MMOs of the past that got me hooked on this genre. UO had open world pvp with full loot and it was still exciting and enjoyable, but to think that is the only way or even the best way to implement open world pvp is a bit short sited on my part. I just really hope they get it right.
0
akabearMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Pvp options fight or run or hide general options in most fights.. or run to guild mates, call guild mates to come... or take a fall and come back with more..
In past streams and interviews Steven said that there would be indicators to show stealthed / invisible players. I think this would be a big mistake. In open world pvp there needs to be more options other that fight or die. I think UO did a very good job in this regard. (yeah I'm old) Back then a player had choices when engaging with a pk. You could fight, run, hide , recall, etc. I think true stealth / invisibility would give players another option when it comes to pvp. It would also made the game more exciting, never knowing if you are going to be ambushed just running from one town to another, and make those skills more that just pve skills. But the point of this post is that if fight or die are our only two options, then pvp will likely become annoying rather than exciting.
hiding, recalling or fleeing before the fight starts is ok, but being able to completely escape in mid fight and / or reset it its not fun at all.
hiding, recalling or fleeing before the fight starts is ok, but being able to completely escape in mid fight and / or reset it its not fun at all.
what----as the person being pursued it is such a thrill!! using landscape, mobs, skills, whatever you need to escape
yeah that's fun, what i mean is once you commit to the fight. like if both players are purple or red vs green. what i mean is how u can use polymorph or vanish in wow, or roll a million times in nw then pot and eat hiding behind a rock and completely leave the fight, even heal back to full or just go to town or log off, use ur mount or whatever.
if you commit to the fight, someone should die and someone should live.
hiding, recalling or fleeing before the fight starts is ok, but being able to completely escape in mid fight and / or reset it its not fun at all.
what----as the person being pursued it is such a thrill!! using landscape, mobs, skills, whatever you need to escape
yeah that's fun, what i mean is once you commit to the fight. like if both players are purple or red vs green. what i mean is how u can use polymorph or vanish in wow, or roll a million times in nw then pot and eat hiding behind a rock and completely leave the fight, even heal back to full or just go to town or log off, use ur mount or whatever.
if you commit to the fight, someone should die and someone should live.
I feel like you should be able to do that if you out-play another player to do so, but I do believe it should take a high amount of skill to do it. Not just rolling away or using a single gard CC like you mentioned
Default Max corruption numerical value = 600 points. 1 point per minute for it to reduce, aka 10 hours.
Kill someone with a 40 level difference = 2400 corruption points will take you 40 hours of grinding.
{UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
Default Max corruption numerical value = 600 points. 1 point per minute for it to reduce, aka 10 hours.
Kill someone with a 40 level difference = 2400 corruption points will take you 40 hours of grinding.
Good example, but yikes to the concept of making players grind for days to remove Corruption even for a single low level kill. I'd say max 12 hours of dedicated grinding assuming the player has griefed the hell out of players. That's 12 hours in game dealing with all sorts of terrible gameplay. Once you get to a day or even days of corruption, you may as well just hand out bans instead.
Default Max corruption numerical value = 600 points. 1 point per minute for it to reduce, aka 10 hours.
Kill someone with a 40 level difference = 2400 corruption points will take you 40 hours of grinding.
What about the death reduction values? Death is supposed to be the main way to remove corruption, so I'd assume several hundred a death? Or do you want to go ultra hardcore and have smth like 20-50 per death?
Default Max corruption numerical value = 600 points. 1 point per minute for it to reduce, aka 10 hours.
Kill someone with a 40 level difference = 2400 corruption points will take you 40 hours of grinding.
Good example, but yikes to the concept of making players grind for days to remove Corruption even for a single low level kill. I'd say max 12 hours of dedicated grinding assuming the player has griefed the hell out of players. That's 12 hours in game dealing with all sorts of terrible gameplay. Once you get to a day or even days of corruption, you may as well just hand out bans instead.
Good - if that scared you - THEN ITS WORKING. DONT FUCKING KILL A LOW LEVEL PLAYER YOU SCUMBAG. The entire purpose of the corruption system is to prevent griefing.
{UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
Default Max corruption numerical value = 600 points. 1 point per minute for it to reduce, aka 10 hours.
Kill someone with a 40 level difference = 2400 corruption points will take you 40 hours of grinding.
What about the death reduction values? Death is supposed to be the main way to remove corruption, so I'd assume several hundred a death? Or do you want to go ultra hardcore and have smth like 20-50 per death?
In the end I will let Dev decide that value
I can toss some ideas out there.
DEATH:
Mobs = Must be 10 level below you - so go stand there like an idiot for 10 minute as a rabbit is nibbling at you for 10hp per bite. Taking FOREVER to kill you. Suffer.
Players = Players who are 3 levels below you or higher can help reduce. Diminishing Return from same player. Pretty much 2nd kill you lose barely anything but continue to drop loot. SUFFER - no loophole for you
Have a system to identify Guild ID - if matching guild IDs helping to lower your corruption - it wont work. Same applies to - 3 friends from the same guild kills you
the non guildie - Only the first kill will apply - diminishing return on 2nd and nothing on 3rd. SUFFER no loophole for you
Killing / Working the XP off - whatever AoC has in place.
{UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
Default Max corruption numerical value = 600 points. 1 point per minute for it to reduce, aka 10 hours.
Kill someone with a 40 level difference = 2400 corruption points will take you 40 hours of grinding.
What about the death reduction values? Death is supposed to be the main way to remove corruption, so I'd assume several hundred a death? Or do you want to go ultra hardcore and have smth like 20-50 per death?
In the end I will let Dev decide that value
I can toss some ideas out there.
DEATH:
Mobs = Must be 10 level below you - so go stand there like an idiot for 10 minute as a rabbit is nibbling at you for 10hp per bite. Taking FOREVER to kill you.
Suffer. Don't need you trying to get 1 shot by a cyclops 50 times in a row in some obscure location. Also add Diminishing Return on same mob / mob-type. (Assuming you can work off corruption by dying to pve)
Players = Players who are 3 levels below you or higher can help reduce. Diminishing Return from same player. Pretty much 2nd kill you lose barely anything but continue to drop loot. SUFFER - no loophole for you
Have a system to identify Guild ID - if matching guild IDs helping to lower your corruption - it wont work. Same applies to - 3 friends from the same guild kills you
the non guildie - Only the first kill will apply - diminishing return on 2nd and nothing on 3rd. SUFFER no loophole for you
Killing / Working the XP off - whatever AoC has in place.
{UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
Default Max corruption numerical value = 600 points. 1 point per minute for it to reduce, aka 10 hours.
Kill someone with a 40 level difference = 2400 corruption points will take you 40 hours of grinding.
Good example, but yikes to the concept of making players grind for days to remove Corruption even for a single low level kill. I'd say max 12 hours of dedicated grinding assuming the player has griefed the hell out of players. That's 12 hours in game dealing with all sorts of terrible gameplay. Once you get to a day or even days of corruption, you may as well just hand out bans instead.
Good - if that scared you - THEN ITS WORKING. DONT FUCKING KILL A LOW LEVEL PLAYER YOU SCUMBAG. The entire purpose of the corruption system is to prevent griefing.
what if you accidentally kill the low level? it can happen. 10 hours to cleanse corruption is a bit too much...
Default Max corruption numerical value = 600 points. 1 point per minute for it to reduce, aka 10 hours.
Kill someone with a 40 level difference = 2400 corruption points will take you 40 hours of grinding.
Good example, but yikes to the concept of making players grind for days to remove Corruption even for a single low level kill. I'd say max 12 hours of dedicated grinding assuming the player has griefed the hell out of players. That's 12 hours in game dealing with all sorts of terrible gameplay. Once you get to a day or even days of corruption, you may as well just hand out bans instead.
Good - if that scared you - THEN ITS WORKING. DONT FUCKING KILL A LOW LEVEL PLAYER YOU SCUMBAG. The entire purpose of the corruption system is to prevent griefing.
Deter. Not prevent. 12 hours is a great deterrent. I don't want to grind for 12 hours, but there are some heavy risks i might consider to take that crazy penalty. 40 hours of not being able to do anything but grind is how you completely get rid of ganking, or how to make players just not play anymore.
Seems like those values are wayyy to bloated. I get the notion of not wanting people to pk but even a 10 level difference is 10hrs or so. That's how you kill any pvp against a green; making pvp essentially toggle. I'd never want to take the risk and I have a decent amount of free time so I can only imagine what someone who has a 9-5 and a family would think when reading that.
The corruption system should deter, not prevent pking or else you don't REALLY have a choice if the penalty is too severe.
You see a bot at a gaming spot ? Too bad. No one will kill it since corruption is too penalizing.
You are getting griefed by someone even 5 lvls lower than you? Too bad that's 5hrs of Grinding so they know you won't do anything about it. And since there is collision in the grange you know people will do dumb shit.
I guess f* bounty hunters too since there won't be any reds to kill.
There should be a Rob option in which the robbed person is threatened with being killed and he can prevent that from said player for 30 minutes in exchange for 5% of their materials in inventory.
OK. Maybe too weird of a mechanic. But probably someone else can think of something more polished and balanced out of this raw concept.
The more I see people talk about this, the more interested (but less excited) I am to TEST it.
Because I don't want to judge the corruption system beforehand, but the simplistic explanation we got, means that after literally years of thinking about it and seeing the discussions, I've finally come to the conclusion that it's definitely innately flawed and should be done better.
Basically, I no longer feel like 'just tweaking the numbers' is going to achieve the goal of even Ashes itself unless the goal is to stop people from PK-ing generally.
I'm actually fine with that, I like that game type too, but if they want the 'Dynamic world of risk', I am getting the feeling the current Corruption system ain't gonna be it.
The more I see people talk about this, the more interested (but less excited) I am to TEST it.
Because I don't want to judge the corruption system beforehand, but the simplistic explanation we got, means that after literally years of thinking about it and seeing the discussions, I've finally come to the conclusion that it's definitely innately flawed and should be done better.
Basically, I no longer feel like 'just tweaking the numbers' is going to achieve the goal of even Ashes itself unless the goal is to stop people from PK-ing generally.
I'm actually fine with that, I like that game type too, but if they want the 'Dynamic world of risk', I am getting the feeling the current Corruption system ain't gonna be it.
Yeah, I feel like that's one of the reasons why Steven added the seas and the ruins (and might add more).
The more I see people talk about this, the more interested (but less excited) I am to TEST it.
Because I don't want to judge the corruption system beforehand, but the simplistic explanation we got, means that after literally years of thinking about it and seeing the discussions, I've finally come to the conclusion that it's definitely innately flawed and should be done better.
Basically, I no longer feel like 'just tweaking the numbers' is going to achieve the goal of even Ashes itself unless the goal is to stop people from PK-ing generally.
I'm actually fine with that, I like that game type too, but if they want the 'Dynamic world of risk', I am getting the feeling the current Corruption system ain't gonna be it.
This was something I was thinking about way back and I believe I can be quoted somewhere, but I get the impression this may be kind of right? Specifically that it will lose dynamic bits because the math is going to be "this is/isn't worth it" based on penalty. If it is worth it people will do the "crime" if it isn't people will just blatantly stop pking and all the risk/dynamic elements will be locked behind sieges, instanced pvp, etc.
What i would personally like is a sort of "rolling" pvp zone. I.e within the area of about 5 connected nodes, there will be no corruption penalties however there may be an increase in gatherables, xp gain and an increase to gear degradation maybe. It could be written in lore wise as a "blanket" of corruption that moves across the land. I enjoyed the open nature of pvp in cyridill on eso, so something like this sounds appealing. Obviously this isn't in the current design goal, just something I'd like in a game.
As corruption is not, either I will attack a green because the penalty won't be severe enough, or what they have will be worth the risk. Or the penalty will b so severe that I will never attack a green simply because I will lose too much time removing corruption thus defeating the purpose. If I would recieve 5k worth of resources off of them but it will take me 5hrs to clear corruption and I generate 1k per crafting or whatever then I might aswell craft. Especially since I won't b risking everything I have on me to bounty hunters.
(Just rough thoughts)
I guess we won't know till A2 however. We will see which way the system leans.
You are getting griefed by someone even 5 lvls lower than you? Too bad that's 5hrs of Grinding so they know you won't do anything about it. And since there is collision in the grange you know people will do dumb shit.
I guess f* bounty hunters too since there won't be any reds to kill.
Just my 21 cents on the matter.
1) if someone griefing you - they must be flagged right? so free kill no corruption.
2) someone 5 levels below you - killing them gives you 10% of max corruption (600).
600 /10 = 60 minutes. 1 hour.. not 5 hours.
As stated else where - people shouldnt be expecting a lot out of the Bounty Hunter system. That is just a little side dish - nothing deep. They don't intent to incentives Reds and there will be very little corrupted players to begin with. There is many avenues for pvp - so the corrupted will be few and far between. They are not looking to incentives BH either - it's literally a mini-game. If the AoC as is corruption system (not including my version) works at deterring - people wont be going corrupt like you imagine it to be. Thus making BH just a side activity. People needs to stop banking on the idea you can be a full time BH and play within that system - its barebones.
{UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
What i would personally like is a sort of "rolling" pvp zone. I.e within the area of about 5 connected nodes, there will be no corruption penalties however there may be an increase in gatherables, xp gain and an increase to gear degradation maybe. It could be written in lore wise as a "blanket" of corruption that moves across the land. I enjoyed the open nature of pvp in cyridill on eso, so something like this sounds appealing. Obviously this isn't in the current design goal, just something I'd like in a game.
As corruption is not, either I will attack a green because the penalty won't be severe enough, or what they have will be worth the risk. Or the penalty will b so severe that I will never attack a green simply because I will lose too much time removing corruption thus defeating the purpose. If I would recieve 5k worth of resources off of them but it will take me 5hrs to clear corruption and I generate 1k per crafting or whatever then I might aswell craft. Especially since I won't b risking everything I have on me to bounty hunters.
(Just rough thoughts)
I guess we won't know till A2 however. We will see which way the system leans.
going with this concept. While I've been coming off as "anti pk" is mainly because im a PK/Griefer at heart when given the chance. I hunt and prey on potential ppl who will ragequit and laugh. Like a Whitehat hacker - I know how to hack and give you the potential solutions go prevent those hacks. With that said - this idea you mention is a PK dream for me.
I would love to see, 5 random nodes out of the 103 nodes turn into a Hot zone. Every 24 hours it changes. It gives me the Japanese movie "Battle Royal" vibe. This now brings PKers and BH to the scenes and create world pvp fights that might be very fun and interested, utilizing and using the environments. Unique combats.
These hot zones are noticeable on the map for everyone to see and can be tweeted daily. Ya can tweet / drop a post for a full week lineup of hot zones, so players can act accordingly. So beside Sea combat, 3-5 in-land nodes become hot zones sounds very fun to me.
{UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
Comments
Want some candy?
1. Bards might give a run speed buff to their group. This is how bards are in a lot of games, that’s one of the main advantages of bringing a bard.
2. People will be dismounted if they take damage. This is something that’s universal for most games.
If someone’s being chased by a group with a bard on foot, and they’re dismounted so can’t ride their mount away, saying people can get away with their mount seems highly unrealistic.
Some crowd-control abilities can dismount a mounted player.[7] In that case the mount would persist with its own health pool and other stats.[8]
So not just taking damage. And CCs don't work on greens, so they can get away easily. And for the flagged people trying to run away, we'll just have to see what kind of CD those CCs have and what kind of range/cast speed too. And if it's a long range low cd fast cast speed ability - it'll just be added to the equation of "do I want to flag against this attacker(s)?"
I think you are probably right. I just can't help thinking of the MMOs of the past that got me hooked on this genre. UO had open world pvp with full loot and it was still exciting and enjoyable, but to think that is the only way or even the best way to implement open world pvp is a bit short sited on my part. I just really hope they get it right.
OK. I admit. One of the most unexpected turns I've seen a thread take in a while.
That awkward moment when your humor is still pre-Alpha 1
hiding, recalling or fleeing before the fight starts is ok, but being able to completely escape in mid fight and / or reset it its not fun at all.
what----as the person being pursued it is such a thrill!! using landscape, mobs, skills, whatever you need to escape
yeah that's fun, what i mean is once you commit to the fight. like if both players are purple or red vs green. what i mean is how u can use polymorph or vanish in wow, or roll a million times in nw then pot and eat hiding behind a rock and completely leave the fight, even heal back to full or just go to town or log off, use ur mount or whatever.
if you commit to the fight, someone should die and someone should live.
I feel like you should be able to do that if you out-play another player to do so, but I do believe it should take a high amount of skill to do it. Not just rolling away or using a single gard CC like you mentioned
I am thinking more like
X amount of level difference will give you a different corruption point amount.
The larger the gap, the more corruption you get.
And if you're with 1-3 or 2-3, or 1-5 level difference - very little corruption to maybe even none.
Same level and 1 level difference = no corruption
2 level difference = 4% of max corruption
3 level difference = 6%
4 level difference = 8%
5 level difference = 10%
6 level difference = 25%
7 level difference = 40%
8 level difference = 60%
9 level difference = 80%
10 level difference = 100%
11 level difference = 110%
12 level difference = 120%
13 level difference = 130%
20 level difference = 200%
30 level difference = 300%
40 level difference = 400%
50 level difference = 500%
Default Max corruption numerical value = 600 points. 1 point per minute for it to reduce, aka 10 hours.
Kill someone with a 40 level difference = 2400 corruption points will take you 40 hours of grinding.
Good example, but yikes to the concept of making players grind for days to remove Corruption even for a single low level kill. I'd say max 12 hours of dedicated grinding assuming the player has griefed the hell out of players. That's 12 hours in game dealing with all sorts of terrible gameplay. Once you get to a day or even days of corruption, you may as well just hand out bans instead.
Good - if that scared you - THEN ITS WORKING. DONT FUCKING KILL A LOW LEVEL PLAYER YOU SCUMBAG. The entire purpose of the corruption system is to prevent griefing.
In the end I will let Dev decide that value
I can toss some ideas out there.
DEATH:
Mobs = Must be 10 level below you - so go stand there like an idiot for 10 minute as a rabbit is nibbling at you for 10hp per bite. Taking FOREVER to kill you. Suffer.
Players = Players who are 3 levels below you or higher can help reduce. Diminishing Return from same player. Pretty much 2nd kill you lose barely anything but continue to drop loot. SUFFER - no loophole for you
Have a system to identify Guild ID - if matching guild IDs helping to lower your corruption - it wont work. Same applies to - 3 friends from the same guild kills you
the non guildie - Only the first kill will apply - diminishing return on 2nd and nothing on 3rd. SUFFER no loophole for you
Killing / Working the XP off - whatever AoC has in place.
what if you accidentally kill the low level? it can happen. 10 hours to cleanse corruption is a bit too much...
Deter. Not prevent. 12 hours is a great deterrent. I don't want to grind for 12 hours, but there are some heavy risks i might consider to take that crazy penalty. 40 hours of not being able to do anything but grind is how you completely get rid of ganking, or how to make players just not play anymore.
The corruption system should deter, not prevent pking or else you don't REALLY have a choice if the penalty is too severe.
You see a bot at a gaming spot ? Too bad. No one will kill it since corruption is too penalizing.
You are getting griefed by someone even 5 lvls lower than you? Too bad that's 5hrs of Grinding so they know you won't do anything about it. And since there is collision in the grange you know people will do dumb shit.
I guess f* bounty hunters too since there won't be any reds to kill.
Just my 21 cents on the matter.
OK. Maybe too weird of a mechanic. But probably someone else can think of something more polished and balanced out of this raw concept.
Because I don't want to judge the corruption system beforehand, but the simplistic explanation we got, means that after literally years of thinking about it and seeing the discussions, I've finally come to the conclusion that it's definitely innately flawed and should be done better.
Basically, I no longer feel like 'just tweaking the numbers' is going to achieve the goal of even Ashes itself unless the goal is to stop people from PK-ing generally.
I'm actually fine with that, I like that game type too, but if they want the 'Dynamic world of risk', I am getting the feeling the current Corruption system ain't gonna be it.
This was something I was thinking about way back and I believe I can be quoted somewhere, but I get the impression this may be kind of right? Specifically that it will lose dynamic bits because the math is going to be "this is/isn't worth it" based on penalty. If it is worth it people will do the "crime" if it isn't people will just blatantly stop pking and all the risk/dynamic elements will be locked behind sieges, instanced pvp, etc.
edit: spelling.
As corruption is not, either I will attack a green because the penalty won't be severe enough, or what they have will be worth the risk. Or the penalty will b so severe that I will never attack a green simply because I will lose too much time removing corruption thus defeating the purpose. If I would recieve 5k worth of resources off of them but it will take me 5hrs to clear corruption and I generate 1k per crafting or whatever then I might aswell craft. Especially since I won't b risking everything I have on me to bounty hunters.
(Just rough thoughts)
I guess we won't know till A2 however. We will see which way the system leans.
with great power, comes great responsibilities.
1) if someone griefing you - they must be flagged right? so free kill no corruption.
2) someone 5 levels below you - killing them gives you 10% of max corruption (600).
600 /10 = 60 minutes. 1 hour.. not 5 hours.
As stated else where - people shouldnt be expecting a lot out of the Bounty Hunter system. That is just a little side dish - nothing deep. They don't intent to incentives Reds and there will be very little corrupted players to begin with. There is many avenues for pvp - so the corrupted will be few and far between. They are not looking to incentives BH either - it's literally a mini-game. If the AoC as is corruption system (not including my version) works at deterring - people wont be going corrupt like you imagine it to be. Thus making BH just a side activity. People needs to stop banking on the idea you can be a full time BH and play within that system - its barebones.
going with this concept. While I've been coming off as "anti pk" is mainly because im a PK/Griefer at heart when given the chance. I hunt and prey on potential ppl who will ragequit and laugh. Like a Whitehat hacker - I know how to hack and give you the potential solutions go prevent those hacks. With that said - this idea you mention is a PK dream for me.
I would love to see, 5 random nodes out of the 103 nodes turn into a Hot zone. Every 24 hours it changes. It gives me the Japanese movie "Battle Royal" vibe. This now brings PKers and BH to the scenes and create world pvp fights that might be very fun and interested, utilizing and using the environments. Unique combats.
These hot zones are noticeable on the map for everyone to see and can be tweeted daily. Ya can tweet / drop a post for a full week lineup of hot zones, so players can act accordingly. So beside Sea combat, 3-5 in-land nodes become hot zones sounds very fun to me.