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Hard-Core Solo players risk vs reward.
Asgorath
Member
There are hard-core players who just play solo, they team up to fight World Bosses from time to time. What are the risks vs rewards for hardcore players? Flight mount I recall that only Guild can earn flying mount. IT will be nice for those hard-working hardcore solo players to get flying mounts by completing activities and breathing animals. IF solo players can get flight mount they should work hard to earn it. I'm a Hardcore solo PVPer, so they need to find a way to reward us and make us earn and work hard to get rare items, gears, and more. Guild way they will make it easy and Solo hardcore players have to work extra hard to earn things.
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https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/54028/is-ashes-of-creation-a-game-for-me#latest
You might want to also check out the article about guild size which indicates that there will be more skill options for small (30-50) guilds available than for larger guilds.
This means to me: Even when you prefer solo gaming it would be worthwhile to find other solo players, start a guild in name, which basically is only a hub platform for occasional joint ventures. Whether you actually function as a happy, active community is secondary in that case but the perks you might get from forming a guild will probably be worth it.
You can use the Guild Recruitment channel of this forum to put the message for this type of guild out there already and lay the ground work for a swift establishment process so that you don't have to bother too much about it ingame.
With all that being said everything I have heard about this game clearly indicates to me that Ashes will be primarily group oriented, even though parts of it will surely be feasible to do alone. You will have not so small disadvantages when preferring doing things solo in this game, I am 100% certain that social bonds in this game will become highly important in all matters economics/trade/craftsmanship as well as group finding when it becomes necessary.
So like @Myosotys said: Check out the various sources yourself and closely think about whether or not this game is for you. Because one of the "virtues" of the older MMORPGs was that it was an absolute advantage to have a close net of companions to make it "to the top".
Guilds got all their needs covered and 0 interests in sharing with randoms.
Where in life have you ever seen a situation in which you can tag along only for the good stuff and leave straight after?
Dont confuse solo mmos (optional content) with real mmos.
I think these kind of games are often being referred to as "lobby games" now, where you see other people standing around all the time but basically them being their is of almost no importance whatsoever as they are largely insignificant in regards to access to the content and one would regularly disappear into instanced or solo-focused content anyways.
In those cases the "MM" in MMORPG becomes an euphemistic, empty shell barely worth the term "multiplayer". And this lobby style gameplay is definitely something Ashes is well adviced to avoid providing.
I didn't say Guilds have to pick a random player to go along with them to farm things or earn rewards. What I meant to say is, Hardcore solo players, should be rewarded in a type of way or reward them with rare items for completing certain types of dungeons, missions, quests, and Worlds bosses. IF solo players can get flight mount they should work hard to earn it. I'm a Hardcore solo PVPer, so they need to find a way to reward us and make us earn and work hard to get rare items, gears, and more. Guild way they will make it easy and Solo hardcore players have to work extra hard to earn things. Elder scrolls online, WOW, and other MMOs. I'm sure they can balance between hardcore solo players and guilds' rewards. The freedom.
Thanks for the heads up, I was searching for the specific topic title but I didn't see anything that's why I made another one.
Try a Divine Node metropolis, maybe, and spam your Divine Quests. If you can become the mayor of that metropolis, you'll get access to the flying mount.
If mmos provide rewards for solo content, why bother joining others?
If solo players can achieve goals, what goals are left for groups?
Anyway... if you cant see why solo should not be rewarded for being solo in an mmo, why do I even bother. Go play eso and solo your life away.
Welcome ! And don't listen those who will tell you "the game is not for you", "go play a solo game" and blablabla. This is bullshit and the game is for every one who will buy it and play it.
Lol, it's okay if you're not a solo player. Don't come hard on us saying we don't deserve rewards, i believe they should be rewards for Solo players in general, rare rewards. I have vast knowledge of MMOs and ESO is one of them.
The point people who say "This game is not for you" are trying to make is that the game is optimized for a certain general game style. Diverting too far from that will result in a limited - and as such less enjoyable - experience of the game.
We had these debates over and over again with the PvP and PvE purists, while it has been clearly stated that the game is not intended to be played in such a fashion and trying to do so will lead to missing out on crucial parts of the game as well as running into problems with progression.
Same goes for Solo playing. A player that refuses 90% of the time to play Ashes socially will run with absolute certainty have disadvantages and limitations in regards to progression and mandatory interaction (primarily economics).
And if someone is insisting of having the full access to Ashes' content while playing solo, PvE only or PvP only that is the point at which other people - and Steven - came up with the conclusion "This game might not be for you".
A few I can think of right away:
1. Move freely. AoC is a geographically huge game. If you are tied to a community, then you might not be able to go where-ever you please in order to be available for certain group activities.
2. Your time is your own. You dont have to wait for your pals to be online to progress.
3. Want to move? You can do so without discussing it with anyone.
4. Lend services to guilds/groups/communities needing more bodies. Pugging is a thing.
I am positive there will be plenty of solo players doing just fine in AoC.
Besides... Flying mounts? Can also drop from world Bosses or be extremely rare and difficult breedings from animal husbandry (if I remember things right from one of the streams).
If Steven said it, he had the intelligence to use the conditional mood instead of the imperative mood. And coming from Steven, the imperative, (not very diplomatic), could have worked because it's his game and only he (or his team) can decide who he addresses.
But when a player (who isn't even one yet because the game isn't released) allows himself to say "This game is not for you", It's total bullshit.
I don't think that's how that works. A player or backer or member is giving the same explanation as Steven did it doesn't lose one bit of accuracy. Reality doesn't change because someone else informed us about it. You could ask for verification of the sources that led to the conclusion for example to the stuff I said, but saying "nah, that's BS" without doing so even though Steven might have said so himself is just... missing the mark completly. I can't explain it any other way.
I think I made my case quite clear and linked all the sources why there is a big chance that a solo playser will find themselves to be highly disappointed in the game given their preferred play style, simply because that hasn't been the primary focus during the game design.
they don't have to reward you and you don't deserve anything. no one does. with that being said, its a good idea to offer progression paths for solo players in a mmorpg, since no one plays with a group 100% of the time.
your reward is defending successfully your solo farming spot from other solo players and being able to farm, get gear, etc
you can still join people and do raid bosses..if you don't join a party, don't expect to get loot since you wont win on dps/loot priority (unless the bosses drop something for everybody who hit it).
flying mounts are for guild leaders who own a castle and for those who breed them using the animal tamer profession (or people who buy from them). they are extremely rare and they arent permanent. expect to see 10-20 in a server at any given month (according to steven). so yeah go farm that gold and buy it or become and animal tamer yourself.
I said stuff like this a while ago on a thread where someone was talking about a mercenary/adventurer's guild. I'd like the idea of not having to be locked into an area but still being able to progress a social ranking. After doing so many quests, dungeons, etc. you can level up within the guild.
While I can see where people are coming from when they say it's a social game that's what an MMO is... Personally I think that is lame reasoning, and isn't a very realistic view of people. Not everyone is an extrovert and wants to do big group things, some people play these games because they love immersive worlds and want to go explore.
Just as it's silly to expect a soloable experience in smth like LoL or Dota2, it's silly to expect the same lvl of rewards for soloing an mmo as a party/raid would get.
Let me get controversial now...
Anyone playing a mmorpg 100% of the time in group is also playing the game wrong.
I have spoken.
A video game is a moment of recreation. As long as the player enjoys it, there is no wrong way to play a video game (within the limits of respect for others).
The only wrong way to play a video game is to play too much or to disrepect other players.
You absolutely should get things for doing things... I didn't say you should get the same things though, yes there should be different styles of rewards for different gameplay.
No using LoL and dota isn't a good comparison, that's apples and oranges. But people play RPGs for different things. There are people who want to raid/dungeon, PvP, craft, explore, roleplay, etc... All aspects of the game should have some kind reward or progression... Again not saying all rewards are equal, but doing something should get you something.
There'll for sure be content a solo player can do out in the world.
If they just want to not join a guild but still pug up for content they'll be fine.
But a "pure" solo player won't be able to solo raid bosses and if they're adamant at remaining pure solo to the extent that they refuse to join towns or even caravan raids/defence I'd be questioning why they even bothered to try an MMO
I don't think that those items are guild-locked in this game, I don't remember seeing any indications of that.
I've asked someone to add a related question to this month's Q&A, hopefully it will get a look or some clarification.
I'm assuming you mean the usual 'high skill solo player who has the highest contribution to a fight' scenario, and asking if that player has the option to get the good drops too or if it will automatically go to a guild.
In Ashes, there may be some additional concerns here. Basically, 'spoiling'. It might not be possible for a player who chose the profession "Master Farmer" for their normal play to do the 'solo boss down' and actually have the skill/item required to get their preferred/correct loot off the boss.
You might need a Guild with the correct Artisan type to gather the item, and if solo, then you can't do it. As for whether this applies to things like flying mount eggs, it was asked, but we might not get a clear answer since the question has a lot of prerequisite parts...
Meaning even though a solo player might get their hands on a mount capable of true flying, as long as they are not a mayor they won't be able to use that. And for a solo player the title of King or Queen is not obtainable as it takes a guild to successfully lay siege to a castle.
From the same:
Flight capable royal mounts are also dropped from World bosses as eggs. These mounts will have a life-span likely between 15 to 30 days (online and offline time)[3] after which the mounts will pass away.[4][6]
I understand if you perceive this line to mean 'Even if you got the drop you can't use it unless you are a Metro Mayor, King or Queen', but the rest of the information on the page doesn't imply that to me.
In any case, the OP's question is moreso about the generality of 'if you are sufficiently strong solo can you get drops'. In certain games you are outright locked out of using the drop even if you get it.
That much is true. You theoretically get a drop on a worldboss that is a flying mount. It'll depend on how the contribution is calculated.
With that being said: The royal mounts last something like 30 days. If that is good enough for the top performing solo players to refarm flying mounts on a monthly basis, fair enough.
Well, it was probably just an example (though obv idk, maybe 'can I get a flying mount' is all the OP cared about).
But it is a concern because some games are in fact really weird/dumb about what you can or cannot even initiate without forming a guild to do it, and that limits 'groups of solo players who happen to come together to do something', as the OP says, in their team-ups.
It would probably make a lot of difference if a few strong soloers in some area managed to spawn a boss and decided to fight it together, but the game basically went 'nah y'all aren't in a Guild so you don't get the drops'. I'd have considered this sort of thing impossibly bad design before I played BDO (not saying that BDO does this, only that it would not surprise me even a little if they did). But I do remember playing some game that actually did work like this. The 'main drop' only unlocks when a Guild Leader is in a party.
I at least know that BDO has no function for increasing the rewards for 'small group or single player defeats Field Boss' in the sense that it just 'rolls a drop table for everyone separately based on their performance', but that means if you solo something, you can't get anything 'better' than the 'drop table rolls for the #1 performer'. No 'bonuses for being the only one', not even 'get the extra rolls for the #2 and #3 spots too'.
The first thing to note here is that in a game where the economy is front and center as it will be in Ashes, *EVERYTHING* can be bought and sold, and thus *EVERYTHING* broken down to how much you earn per minute.
This includes eggs for Royal mounts. Steven has mentioned in the past that they can be bought and sold.
So, since everything can be bought and sold, and thus everything can be reduced down to the gold value, you then need only ask yourself what value of gold a solo player should be able to earn in relation to group, or even a full raid.
The answer is not as simple as "a solo player should earn 1/8th what a group earns, putting solo players and group players on an equal footing individually"- as som solo players may want. The reason this doesnt work is because it doesnt account for the added logistics of group play. In reality, an individual in a group should come away with twice the value after an hour of successful content to what a solo player makes in that same hour.
When it comes to a raid, the logistics are exponentially harder. Here, an individual should come away with twice as much as an individual in a group for the same duration, or four times what a solo player is able to earn.
As such, if it takes a raid 2 hours to get a single mount egg (assuming nothing else of real value), it should take a solo player 320 hours to earn that same value of gold, and be able to buy said egg if it is up for sale.
It is important to note that an item designated as both very rare and very desirable by developers shouldnt be put on solo content. If such an item were to exist in solo content, solo players would never get a shot at said content - groups or raids will camp solo content if that is where the desired drops are.
Now on to world bosses. Loot from world bosses - unless it has changed recently - is based on what party does the most damage to the mob (with a bonus to the initial party to tag the encounter).
In this system, a "party" refers to a group, raid or solo player.
The party that wins loot rights get the loot - all of it. There is no loot for second place. As such, a solo player wanting loot from a world boss would need to out DPS a raid, or get very close to it.
It would be a mistake to consider world bosses as being content for all. Steven has been very clear that world bosses are content that will likely be contested by top performing guilds.
It is important to consider that the point of group and raid content in an MMO is to encourage players to group together, and thus form bonds. As such, a solo player in a PvP based MMORPG is playing the game as incorrectly as someone playing that same game but refusing to PvP. Both are welcome to participate, and there will absolutely be a list of activities that each would be able to participate in, but there is no room for them to complain if things dont work out how they want as they are the ones with the self imposed limits.
With that said, many aspects of Ashes are designed primarily for group play: I'm not saying that's good or bad, I'm just stating the facts.
If one plays 18 hours a day as a solo they'll be able to achieve a bunch of things, but won't be able to achieve a whole bunch of other things. If one wants to be as efficient as possible they'll probably want to find a group to play with, or else someone who plays with a group for 4 hours a day might be able to progress much more than them.
However, if one accepts these facts and still enjoys/has fun playing the game completely as a solo, then more power to them. Besides trying to address the zerg issue, I think that solo gameplay in Ashes must be viable but not incentivized.