Dolyem wrote: » I can't really think of any purely PvP MMORPGs
Noaani wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » I can't really think of any purely PvP MMORPGs This is my point. In the realm of MMORPG's, Ashes is about as PvP as it gets. There are games in other genres that are more PvP than Ashes, but not really any MMORPG's.
Dolyem wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » I can't really think of any purely PvP MMORPGs This is my point. In the realm of MMORPG's, Ashes is about as PvP as it gets. There are games in other genres that are more PvP than Ashes, but not really any MMORPG's. By the sounds of it I'd say Mortal Online 2 is a much more PvP MMORPG.
Dolyem wrote: » I'd also maybe argue classic WoW had much more rampant PvP on its PvP servers, but it wasn't really required for progression.
Dolyem wrote: » By the sounds of it I'd say Mortal Online 2 is a much more PvP MMORPG.
Dygz wrote: » Diamaht wrote: » It used to be pvp, STV, Badlands etc were a lot of fun (but also a gank fest with no scaling). Now, no, its not a pvp game. Not PvP if playing on a PvE-Only server.
Diamaht wrote: » It used to be pvp, STV, Badlands etc were a lot of fun (but also a gank fest with no scaling). Now, no, its not a pvp game.
Azraya wrote: » I wish AoC would just let players choose at level 15 if they want to flag for PVP or not but make it permanent. You can only attack other players that are 5 levels above or below you. Killing a player starts a timer that prevents you from attacking that same player for a set period of time. I'm sure they are smart enough to flesh out the details.
Noaani wrote: » Fiddlez wrote: » [ Noaani wrote: » Ravicus wrote: » does the game have pvp = yes does the game have pve = yes does this make a crossover of pvx = Yes this game is pvp, pve and pvx. Think of the gameplay that Ashes will have. If you were talking to an MMORPG player, and you said this game was a PvE MMO, how accurate do you think their assumption of the games gameplay would be? People would likely compare it to EQ, EQ2 or WoW (or a WoW clone) - all PvE server variants. If you said the game was a PvX MMORPG, how accurate do you think their assumption of the games gameplay would be? Keep in mind with this point, literally every MMORPG ever can in some way be considered PvX, as they all have some means of competing with other players (even if only via the games economy), and they all have some form of PvE (even if only exploration). Rather than attempting to compare Ashes to other games, people would likely just stare at you blankly, suggesting the need for more information. Then, imagine telling that same experienced MMORPG player that Ashes is a PvP MMORPG - they would then have a fairly accurate understanding of the gameplay of this game. People would likely compare it to Archeage, L2, EVE and BDO. Thus, to call the game anything other than a PvP MMORPG when talking to experienced MMORPG players is simply an attempt to mislead - at least from Intrepids position. Sorry but I find your arguments completely out to lunch. In EVERY question they would have questions. Yes they would. The key to communication is to get people to an understanding as quickly as possible. If you have a game that is similar to Archeage, L2, EVE and BDO, then simply saying the game is a PvP MMORPG gets you most of the way. Not all the way, but as a start, it is VERY good. If you say it is a PvX game, it does nothing. If you say it is a PvE game, it gets you going the wrong direction. You could well make an argument that we shouldn't use any, as that doesn't do a complete job of describing the game. Feel free to have that discussion with someone else - I am simply pointing out that of those three tags, only one is actually applicable to use when talking about Ashes to other MMORPG players. You want to say that Ashes isn't a PvP MMORPG - and you seem to be qualifying this by stating that you have been a PvP player all your life. Cool, so point to a significantly more PvP oriented MMORPG.
Fiddlez wrote: » [ Noaani wrote: » Ravicus wrote: » does the game have pvp = yes does the game have pve = yes does this make a crossover of pvx = Yes this game is pvp, pve and pvx. Think of the gameplay that Ashes will have. If you were talking to an MMORPG player, and you said this game was a PvE MMO, how accurate do you think their assumption of the games gameplay would be? People would likely compare it to EQ, EQ2 or WoW (or a WoW clone) - all PvE server variants. If you said the game was a PvX MMORPG, how accurate do you think their assumption of the games gameplay would be? Keep in mind with this point, literally every MMORPG ever can in some way be considered PvX, as they all have some means of competing with other players (even if only via the games economy), and they all have some form of PvE (even if only exploration). Rather than attempting to compare Ashes to other games, people would likely just stare at you blankly, suggesting the need for more information. Then, imagine telling that same experienced MMORPG player that Ashes is a PvP MMORPG - they would then have a fairly accurate understanding of the gameplay of this game. People would likely compare it to Archeage, L2, EVE and BDO. Thus, to call the game anything other than a PvP MMORPG when talking to experienced MMORPG players is simply an attempt to mislead - at least from Intrepids position. Sorry but I find your arguments completely out to lunch. In EVERY question they would have questions.
Noaani wrote: » Ravicus wrote: » does the game have pvp = yes does the game have pve = yes does this make a crossover of pvx = Yes this game is pvp, pve and pvx. Think of the gameplay that Ashes will have. If you were talking to an MMORPG player, and you said this game was a PvE MMO, how accurate do you think their assumption of the games gameplay would be? People would likely compare it to EQ, EQ2 or WoW (or a WoW clone) - all PvE server variants. If you said the game was a PvX MMORPG, how accurate do you think their assumption of the games gameplay would be? Keep in mind with this point, literally every MMORPG ever can in some way be considered PvX, as they all have some means of competing with other players (even if only via the games economy), and they all have some form of PvE (even if only exploration). Rather than attempting to compare Ashes to other games, people would likely just stare at you blankly, suggesting the need for more information. Then, imagine telling that same experienced MMORPG player that Ashes is a PvP MMORPG - they would then have a fairly accurate understanding of the gameplay of this game. People would likely compare it to Archeage, L2, EVE and BDO. Thus, to call the game anything other than a PvP MMORPG when talking to experienced MMORPG players is simply an attempt to mislead - at least from Intrepids position.
Ravicus wrote: » does the game have pvp = yes does the game have pve = yes does this make a crossover of pvx = Yes this game is pvp, pve and pvx.
CROW3 wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » By the sounds of it I'd say Mortal Online 2 is a much more PvP MMORPG. Yes, and much more 'hardcore' from a 0-sum game perspective. When you are killed in MO2 you lose everything you are carrying - loot, gear, everything. Which did 3 things: 1. It made the world feel incredibly dangerous, and really required awareness and thought when moving in the wilderness 2. It reduced overall open world encounters the further away from the main hubs compared to WoW PvP Servers in zones further away from main cities - think STV, Taren Mill/South Shore, etc. 3. It created an economy of redundancy to compensate for the repetitive loss of gear & mats. I liked MO2, but I think Ashes will promote an overall increase in player PvP and more meaningful open world PvP than MO2. Just my 2 coppers though
Noaani wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » I can't really think of any purely PvP MMORPGs This is my point. In the realm of MMORPG's, Ashes is about as PvP as it gets. There are games in other genres that are more PvP than Ashes, but not really any MMORPG's. By the sounds of it I'd say Mortal Online 2 is a much more PvP MMORPG. Slightly more - when viewed along the scale of all MMORPG's. Not enough to warrant it's own designation.
Raven016 wrote: » Fiddlez wrote: » Raven016 wrote: » Players identify the features they like the most and try to get as much satisfaction out of them as possible. Most PvE players might not like AoC if they do not get the equivalent feeling as in other mmorpgs. Just because there are NPCs to kill which we call PvE does not mean they will like the game. Even if you try to lure then saying it is not PvP but is PvX, they will still not like it. Remains to be seen if PvPers will like it. For them Steven added the deep ocean, to ensure they get their slice of cake. But I think it will not be enough for them. I am curious how Steven will balance things (corruption, resource scarcity...) I think for this reason. That players in general will have their own expectations or experiences with MMOs and that as a community we need to do a better job of expressing what this game is. You are essentially rolling the dice when we call it a PVP MMO despite the fact that most of the PVP combat will be no different then WoW PvE servers. Caravans/Arenas/Sieges/Guild Wars are all Opt in PVP modes. Which makes it similar to what WoW on a PVE server offers. The big difference is the open world PVP on ground and sea. Caravans will be for making money, so if you want faster cash then you opt in to higher risk. On ground the penalties are more severe then any other game that has a criminal system. Which really makes it hard to see why anyone would PK minus Roleplay reasons. I am sure it will happen but I am concerned that in general no one will do it and make the system irrelevant. We will see how Alpha 2 plays. Which I believe the plan is wait and see anyways. Remember currently: 1) 4x Death penalty 2) No storage, Including your own freehold. 3)Loss of Stats 4)Drop full items and materials 5)Bounty Hunters 6)Plenty of Options In order to work around this ; 1) "deal with it" the 4x penalties, 2)give another player things to store for you(I am thinking guild support too) They could take this away. 3)Loss of Stats - Don't kill other players so much 4) Drop full items - don't take best items out always keep a PVP set. 5)Bounty Hunter - Probably an incentive to actually PVP but does add the risk factor to getting jumped. 6) Ignore optional content. So while there are sort of work around it would be a lot of work and very risky. Also PVP players will most likely join PVP guilds/Caravans/Naval/ Arenas to get their fill. There's other content to keep them busy which also works as a open world PVP deterrent. The other side is Naval and that's the thing that seems to be PVP focused. However if you are aware that Naval is Mad Max rules then you can choose to opt out of it I believe. My main point is that there is a lot of work going to attract PVE players and PVP players, to work together . The game will require players that love to PVE and telling them this is a PVP game seems insane and detrimental to what Intrepid/Steven are trying to build. Especially when you mix in different experiences and perspectives. Regarding your last statement, about insanity...Hunting grounds are open-world PvP corruption-enabled areas that encompass most of the map.[129] If PvP players would asks me where the best place to PvP is, I will send them to the deep sea, because there is no corruption. I do not really know what to advertise to PvE players at this moment. They probably are not very interested either. I would rather say the game is made for 3 kind of PvP-ers: 1) those who do not like the corruption and will go often into the ocean (if they find it boring, they stop playing) 2) those who like opt-in PvP events: caravans, sieges, arenas 3) those who are ready to PvP if needed but would rather avoid it, with help from corruption
Fiddlez wrote: » Raven016 wrote: » Players identify the features they like the most and try to get as much satisfaction out of them as possible. Most PvE players might not like AoC if they do not get the equivalent feeling as in other mmorpgs. Just because there are NPCs to kill which we call PvE does not mean they will like the game. Even if you try to lure then saying it is not PvP but is PvX, they will still not like it. Remains to be seen if PvPers will like it. For them Steven added the deep ocean, to ensure they get their slice of cake. But I think it will not be enough for them. I am curious how Steven will balance things (corruption, resource scarcity...) I think for this reason. That players in general will have their own expectations or experiences with MMOs and that as a community we need to do a better job of expressing what this game is. You are essentially rolling the dice when we call it a PVP MMO despite the fact that most of the PVP combat will be no different then WoW PvE servers. Caravans/Arenas/Sieges/Guild Wars are all Opt in PVP modes. Which makes it similar to what WoW on a PVE server offers. The big difference is the open world PVP on ground and sea. Caravans will be for making money, so if you want faster cash then you opt in to higher risk. On ground the penalties are more severe then any other game that has a criminal system. Which really makes it hard to see why anyone would PK minus Roleplay reasons. I am sure it will happen but I am concerned that in general no one will do it and make the system irrelevant. We will see how Alpha 2 plays. Which I believe the plan is wait and see anyways. Remember currently: 1) 4x Death penalty 2) No storage, Including your own freehold. 3)Loss of Stats 4)Drop full items and materials 5)Bounty Hunters 6)Plenty of Options In order to work around this ; 1) "deal with it" the 4x penalties, 2)give another player things to store for you(I am thinking guild support too) They could take this away. 3)Loss of Stats - Don't kill other players so much 4) Drop full items - don't take best items out always keep a PVP set. 5)Bounty Hunter - Probably an incentive to actually PVP but does add the risk factor to getting jumped. 6) Ignore optional content. So while there are sort of work around it would be a lot of work and very risky. Also PVP players will most likely join PVP guilds/Caravans/Naval/ Arenas to get their fill. There's other content to keep them busy which also works as a open world PVP deterrent. The other side is Naval and that's the thing that seems to be PVP focused. However if you are aware that Naval is Mad Max rules then you can choose to opt out of it I believe. My main point is that there is a lot of work going to attract PVE players and PVP players, to work together . The game will require players that love to PVE and telling them this is a PVP game seems insane and detrimental to what Intrepid/Steven are trying to build. Especially when you mix in different experiences and perspectives.
Raven016 wrote: » Players identify the features they like the most and try to get as much satisfaction out of them as possible. Most PvE players might not like AoC if they do not get the equivalent feeling as in other mmorpgs. Just because there are NPCs to kill which we call PvE does not mean they will like the game. Even if you try to lure then saying it is not PvP but is PvX, they will still not like it. Remains to be seen if PvPers will like it. For them Steven added the deep ocean, to ensure they get their slice of cake. But I think it will not be enough for them. I am curious how Steven will balance things (corruption, resource scarcity...)
Fiddlez wrote: » I don't think you've played MO or Mo2 if you think that it had slightly more PVP.
CROW3 wrote: » I liked MO2, but I think Ashes will promote an overall increase in player PvP and more meaningful open world PvP than MO2.
Dolyem wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » I can't really think of any purely PvP MMORPGs This is my point. In the realm of MMORPG's, Ashes is about as PvP as it gets. There are games in other genres that are more PvP than Ashes, but not really any MMORPG's. By the sounds of it I'd say Mortal Online 2 is a much more PvP MMORPG. Slightly more - when viewed along the scale of all MMORPG's. Not enough to warrant it's own designation. Idk, Ashes has limiters to PvP, where MO2 seems to be rampant killing and loss of progress. And even WoW didn't limit PvP outside of server designations and factions until much later. I remember guilds camping players in shifts to prevent them from playing. Sounds like far more severe PvP capabilities than what Ashes is currently pitching. I will say Ashes seems to have far more complex objective and potentially instanced PvP options,but they all influence and are influenced by PvE
Noaani wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » I can't really think of any purely PvP MMORPGs This is my point. In the realm of MMORPG's, Ashes is about as PvP as it gets. There are games in other genres that are more PvP than Ashes, but not really any MMORPG's. By the sounds of it I'd say Mortal Online 2 is a much more PvP MMORPG. Slightly more - when viewed along the scale of all MMORPG's. Not enough to warrant it's own designation. Idk, Ashes has limiters to PvP, where MO2 seems to be rampant killing and loss of progress. And even WoW didn't limit PvP outside of server designations and factions until much later. I remember guilds camping players in shifts to prevent them from playing. Sounds like far more severe PvP capabilities than what Ashes is currently pitching. I will say Ashes seems to have far more complex objective and potentially instanced PvP options,but they all influence and are influenced by PvE Everything I have heard about MO2 related to many people being too affraid to get in to PvP more often than not. If there was a chance that people could lose a fight, and a chance that they could avoid it, most people would. Full loot as a game system discourages PvP, rather than encourages it.
Fiddlez wrote: » Raven016 wrote: » Fiddlez wrote: » Raven016 wrote: » Players identify the features they like the most and try to get as much satisfaction out of them as possible. Most PvE players might not like AoC if they do not get the equivalent feeling as in other mmorpgs. Just because there are NPCs to kill which we call PvE does not mean they will like the game. Even if you try to lure then saying it is not PvP but is PvX, they will still not like it. Remains to be seen if PvPers will like it. For them Steven added the deep ocean, to ensure they get their slice of cake. But I think it will not be enough for them. I am curious how Steven will balance things (corruption, resource scarcity...) I think for this reason. That players in general will have their own expectations or experiences with MMOs and that as a community we need to do a better job of expressing what this game is. You are essentially rolling the dice when we call it a PVP MMO despite the fact that most of the PVP combat will be no different then WoW PvE servers. Caravans/Arenas/Sieges/Guild Wars are all Opt in PVP modes. Which makes it similar to what WoW on a PVE server offers. The big difference is the open world PVP on ground and sea. Caravans will be for making money, so if you want faster cash then you opt in to higher risk. On ground the penalties are more severe then any other game that has a criminal system. Which really makes it hard to see why anyone would PK minus Roleplay reasons. I am sure it will happen but I am concerned that in general no one will do it and make the system irrelevant. We will see how Alpha 2 plays. Which I believe the plan is wait and see anyways. Remember currently: 1) 4x Death penalty 2) No storage, Including your own freehold. 3)Loss of Stats 4)Drop full items and materials 5)Bounty Hunters 6)Plenty of Options In order to work around this ; 1) "deal with it" the 4x penalties, 2)give another player things to store for you(I am thinking guild support too) They could take this away. 3)Loss of Stats - Don't kill other players so much 4) Drop full items - don't take best items out always keep a PVP set. 5)Bounty Hunter - Probably an incentive to actually PVP but does add the risk factor to getting jumped. 6) Ignore optional content. So while there are sort of work around it would be a lot of work and very risky. Also PVP players will most likely join PVP guilds/Caravans/Naval/ Arenas to get their fill. There's other content to keep them busy which also works as a open world PVP deterrent. The other side is Naval and that's the thing that seems to be PVP focused. However if you are aware that Naval is Mad Max rules then you can choose to opt out of it I believe. My main point is that there is a lot of work going to attract PVE players and PVP players, to work together . The game will require players that love to PVE and telling them this is a PVP game seems insane and detrimental to what Intrepid/Steven are trying to build. Especially when you mix in different experiences and perspectives. Regarding your last statement, about insanity...Hunting grounds are open-world PvP corruption-enabled areas that encompass most of the map.[129] If PvP players would asks me where the best place to PvP is, I will send them to the deep sea, because there is no corruption. I do not really know what to advertise to PvE players at this moment. They probably are not very interested either. I would rather say the game is made for 3 kind of PvP-ers: 1) those who do not like the corruption and will go often into the ocean (if they find it boring, they stop playing) 2) those who like opt-in PvP events: caravans, sieges, arenas 3) those who are ready to PvP if needed but would rather avoid it, with help from corruption The Node system is huge for PVE, the story events(Tower of Carphin), raiding, dungeons, crafting, exploration and discovery. If they add puzzles or "lockpicking" skills like D and D, there would be that too. Jumping puzzles. It has everything a PVE focused player would want. PVP focused players don't want there to be a penalty in open world, they don't want to PVE. They want to fight and kill other players. Imagine playing Call of Duty but you had to kill 500 bots before you could join a match,that's what PVE is to PVP focused players. I think most of them will be involved in all the OPT in PVP modes where there's no penalty or backwards progress, which remember is a round about deterrent to open world PvP.
Noaani wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » I can't really think of any purely PvP MMORPGs This is my point. In the realm of MMORPG's, Ashes is about as PvP as it gets. There are games in other genres that are more PvP than Ashes, but not really any MMORPG's. By the sounds of it I'd say Mortal Online 2 is a much more PvP MMORPG. Slightly more - when viewed along the scale of all MMORPG's. Not enough to warrant it's own designation. Idk, Ashes has limiters to PvP, where MO2 seems to be rampant killing and loss of progress. And even WoW didn't limit PvP outside of server designations and factions until much later. I remember guilds camping players in shifts to prevent them from playing. Sounds like far more severe PvP capabilities than what Ashes is currently pitching. I will say Ashes seems to have far more complex objective and potentially instanced PvP options,but they all influence and are influenced by PvE Everything I have heard about MO2 related to many people being too affraid to get in to PvP more often than not. If there was a chance that people could lose a fight, and a chance that they could avoid it, most people would. Full loot as a game system discourages PvP, rather than encourages it. Ashes loot system literally encourages people to get in and fight. If there is a chance that they won't be able to get away from PvP, they are better served by fighting - and that is just corruption based PvP. PvP over a caravan is not something players would run from, nor is siege PvP. It is likely that node and guild war PvP will be the same. Where MO2 has full loot making people think it is a "hardcore PvP MMO", it actively discourages PvP where ever possible, while Ashes actively encourages people to fight.
Raven016 wrote: » Fiddlez wrote: » Raven016 wrote: » Fiddlez wrote: » Raven016 wrote: » Players identify the features they like the most and try to get as much satisfaction out of them as possible. Most PvE players might not like AoC if they do not get the equivalent feeling as in other mmorpgs. Just because there are NPCs to kill which we call PvE does not mean they will like the game. Even if you try to lure then saying it is not PvP but is PvX, they will still not like it. Remains to be seen if PvPers will like it. For them Steven added the deep ocean, to ensure they get their slice of cake. But I think it will not be enough for them. I am curious how Steven will balance things (corruption, resource scarcity...) I think for this reason. That players in general will have their own expectations or experiences with MMOs and that as a community we need to do a better job of expressing what this game is. You are essentially rolling the dice when we call it a PVP MMO despite the fact that most of the PVP combat will be no different then WoW PvE servers. Caravans/Arenas/Sieges/Guild Wars are all Opt in PVP modes. Which makes it similar to what WoW on a PVE server offers. The big difference is the open world PVP on ground and sea. Caravans will be for making money, so if you want faster cash then you opt in to higher risk. On ground the penalties are more severe then any other game that has a criminal system. Which really makes it hard to see why anyone would PK minus Roleplay reasons. I am sure it will happen but I am concerned that in general no one will do it and make the system irrelevant. We will see how Alpha 2 plays. Which I believe the plan is wait and see anyways. Remember currently: 1) 4x Death penalty 2) No storage, Including your own freehold. 3)Loss of Stats 4)Drop full items and materials 5)Bounty Hunters 6)Plenty of Options In order to work around this ; 1) "deal with it" the 4x penalties, 2)give another player things to store for you(I am thinking guild support too) They could take this away. 3)Loss of Stats - Don't kill other players so much 4) Drop full items - don't take best items out always keep a PVP set. 5)Bounty Hunter - Probably an incentive to actually PVP but does add the risk factor to getting jumped. 6) Ignore optional content. So while there are sort of work around it would be a lot of work and very risky. Also PVP players will most likely join PVP guilds/Caravans/Naval/ Arenas to get their fill. There's other content to keep them busy which also works as a open world PVP deterrent. The other side is Naval and that's the thing that seems to be PVP focused. However if you are aware that Naval is Mad Max rules then you can choose to opt out of it I believe. My main point is that there is a lot of work going to attract PVE players and PVP players, to work together . The game will require players that love to PVE and telling them this is a PVP game seems insane and detrimental to what Intrepid/Steven are trying to build. Especially when you mix in different experiences and perspectives. Regarding your last statement, about insanity...Hunting grounds are open-world PvP corruption-enabled areas that encompass most of the map.[129] If PvP players would asks me where the best place to PvP is, I will send them to the deep sea, because there is no corruption. I do not really know what to advertise to PvE players at this moment. They probably are not very interested either. I would rather say the game is made for 3 kind of PvP-ers: 1) those who do not like the corruption and will go often into the ocean (if they find it boring, they stop playing) 2) those who like opt-in PvP events: caravans, sieges, arenas 3) those who are ready to PvP if needed but would rather avoid it, with help from corruption The Node system is huge for PVE, the story events(Tower of Carphin), raiding, dungeons, crafting, exploration and discovery. If they add puzzles or "lockpicking" skills like D and D, there would be that too. Jumping puzzles. It has everything a PVE focused player would want. PVP focused players don't want there to be a penalty in open world, they don't want to PVE. They want to fight and kill other players. Imagine playing Call of Duty but you had to kill 500 bots before you could join a match,that's what PVE is to PVP focused players. I think most of them will be involved in all the OPT in PVP modes where there's no penalty or backwards progress, which remember is a round about deterrent to open world PvP. Story while leveling might be PvE friendly enough. Most likely near a jumping puzzle players will not kill each-other, unless there are also some rare materials to be found at the end of it. And I do not know if the materials you get from raids and dungeons, if you can move them safely to the storage. If you cannot, then even if inside the dungeon you have a full PvE experience, you have to be ready to PvP as soon as you leave. I cannot advertise that to a PvE player. Even wiki states:It is unlikely that a player could purely focus on just PvP or just PvE.[135][134][136][137] So the game pushes away players who must accept PvP and still accepts those PvP focused players who you say would see NPCs as bots, by sending them to the deep sea, away from nodes. Maybe those players will participate in caravan and siege fights too. But leveling up might be a problem for them if they really hate killing bots. Anyway, once done, they have their place in game. Exploration might be the only PvE aspect, if the player doesn't pick up any rare loot. Then has also has no problems being send back to respawn points once in a while unless was witnessing a rare event which might not happen again soon. But exploration is a light PvE, where you fight with open world NPCs which might attack you sometime and are usually farmed by players who want materials: gatherers who must be ready to PvP when needed. And crafting could also be some activity, to be done only in cities near guards if they protect, or in other people's freeholds if they need some services. Crafting I don't call PvE.
