I dont get the glint-system

A Simple 2:1 Example:

Pure glint (commodities vendor)

10 glint redeemed for: 10 gold
10 glint redeemed for: Case of Kaelar Wooden Soldiers

vs

Stolen glint (black market vendor)

10 stolen glint redeemed for: 5 gold
20 stolen glint redeemed for: Case of Kaelar Wooden Soldiers

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

A Simple 2:1 Example:
Pure glint (commodities vendor)

10 glint redeemed for: 10 gold
10 glint redeemed for: Case of Kaelar Wooden Soldiers

vs

Stolen glint (black market vendor)

10 stolen glint redeemed for: 5 gold
20 stolen glint redeemed for: Case of Kaelar Wooden Soldiers

Yeah, I'm expecting something similar right now.

NiKr wrote: »

Raven016 wrote: »

Ah yes, I didn't thought about that. Then personal caravans can have light versions too which move fast. The slow ones you use when you travel with a small group defending you, a group which will have to get part of the profit too.

No caravans can be faster than a running player, because that would mean that no one can attack them, which makes them OP at multiplying gold.

I had to go and check the stream again. I thought I misunderstood

https://youtu.be/sNfwQILIasQ?t=4352

Caravan system has an inherent risk and that is that players out on the roads when you're far away from these node locations can gank your Caravans but as I was describing in the Showcase this is something that will influence how you construct your Caravan and which components you want to go for. So for example if you're a solo player and you don't intend on transiting a lot of materials at once you may not need the large cargo capacity but instead you want the faster speed because you intend to outrun any potential adversaries that you might face on the roads. That is a viable strategic option for you when constructing your Caravan.

https://youtu.be/sNfwQILIasQ?t=2529

This goes for a lot of the node features right where we're trying to create these ways for you know people who maybe are used to sort of a more solo MMO like gameplay experience to have easy ways to take that first step into like collaborating or competing with each other so that's really one of the things that we spent a lot of time talking about for this system. I assume that in regards to the design of the component system if I am utilizing components that might give my Caravan a significantly higher stat of speed it's unlikely that I would also at the same time be able to select components that were to give an equitable amount of benefit in the stat of let's say cargo or health. It's going to be tradeoff in that sense.

You'll be able to have Caravans of different customizations but there won't be one Caravan that does everything to best you have to make sacrifices depending on what you want to use your Caravan for.
If you want to have an off-road Caravan, a really fast onroad Caravan or just a slow tanky Caravan that can hold a lot of stuff, there'll be lot of options players can choose
I can see the obvious benefit and choices that certain players will have, if you're more solo oriented player you might just want to have the fastest possible Caravan around because you're not worrying about people to stick close to you but also if you do come under attack your chances of succeeding at a fight are far less than getting away by speed

NiKr wrote: »

Raven016 wrote: »

Stolen glint can be redeemed for a lesser value (than the original glint) at black market locations.[3][1]

We don't know what "redeemed" means here. Is it purifying the glint back to its normal state? Is it just giving us gold in a lesser ratio? Is it buying commodities for a higher equivalent?

The former can't be true because stolen glint is supposed to be valued at a lower cost. And I'm somewhat sure there's no exchange between the rarities, so you won't be able to change a ton of tier2 stolen glint into a lesser ton of tier1.

There's a chance that you can do smth like a 2-to-1 direct exchange within a rarity, but I feel like that would lead to a bit too much PKing for Steven's liking.

The latter 2 options only provide gold which, while useful, doesn't provide the same level of functions to the player.

Yes, we need more information. The way I understand is that the stolen glint give just gold.
You will not be able to pay taxes with it, probably because it can be given to other players so is just like gold but not yet converted.

Raven016 wrote: »

I had to go and check the stream again. I thought I misunderstood

I agree those are good quotes against what I'm saying. We'll have to see which one of those survive the testing, where literally everyone simply takes the fastest caravans and outruns any attackers, while multiplying their income by dozenfold, because they can now go from southernmost point on the map to the northernmost point.

It's the classic "plans don't survive an encounter" type of deal. If a caravan, that's faster than attackers, can only carry a tiny piece of coms that would yield less money than just selling some glint - no one will use it.

And if that caravan can carry just enough coms to benefit from running it - everyone will use it, because it'll be all the reward with none the risk.

This then leads me to believe that Steven will then try to force people to use slower caravans in some way, which will be even worse for the system

NiKr wrote: »

Raven016 wrote: »

For me the mule system is any mount which has large inventory, faster than a caravan which is a vehicle. Mounts which are meant to run fast should have less inventory space and while technically can be considered mules I would call them just mounts. And being half protected by corruption is an advantage for gatherers.

Mules can't be faster than a caravan because they would invalidate caravans completely. Commodities are ultimately useless if your mule can transfer your tons of glint faster than what the commodity multiplier would give you in relative gold.

So mules will not be able to transport commodities. That's clear.
But resources? And materials produced by artisans?

NiKr wrote: »

Raven016 wrote: »

I had to go and check the stream again. I thought I misunderstood

I agree those are good quotes against what I'm saying. We'll have to see which one of those survive the testing, where literally everyone simply takes the fastest caravans and outruns any attackers, while multiplying their income by dozenfold, because they can now go from southernmost point on the map to the northernmost point.

It's the classic "plans don't survive an encounter" type of deal. If a caravan, that's faster than attackers, can only carry a tiny piece of coms that would yield less money than just selling some glint - no one will use it.

And if that caravan can carry just enough coms to benefit from running it - everyone will use it, because it'll be all the reward with none the risk.

This then leads me to believe that Steven will then try to force people to use slower caravans in some way, which will be even worse for the system

I would rather add features which allow ways to ambush such caravans. They'll try to run away but maybe the chance to succeed will depend on caravan state, if it survived a previous attack or not, if is onroad or offroad...
Ideally the slow caravans must be more profitable for groups than each of those players in the group to take a light caravan. There must be ways to balance the profit to make players group.

Raven016 wrote: »

So mules will not be able to transport commodities. That's clear.
But resources? And materials produced by artisans?

If mules are still in the game I expect them to carry mats, yes. And the last time we heard about them was in the context of dead mules giving less corruption than a normal kill, so, in theory, they should be attacked more often than just players.

But we also don't know how looting them will work. The white icons from the showcase might imply stolen goods that you gotta process or smth.

But if those are not stolen and several people can loot the mule for straight mats - I definitely foresee big PKing raids on any and all gatherers with mules next to them.

Raven016 wrote: »

I would rather add features which allow ways to ambush such caravans. They'll try to run away but maybe the chance to succeed will depend on caravan state, if it survived a previous attack or not, if is onroad or offroad...
Ideally the slow caravans must be more profitable for groups than each of those players in the group to take a light caravan. There must be ways to balance the profit to make players group.

Yeah, there might be a higher chance of road blockages for the faster caravan parts.

But if that's the case then we just come back to the "how higher is the risk to deliver a tiny piece of coms than the benefit of its multiplier over just selling the glint directly".

People will try to minimize their losses and abuse the system as much as possible one way or the other. We'll just have to see how Intrepid try to address all of that.

NiKr wrote: »

Raven016 wrote: »

So mules will not be able to transport commodities. That's clear.
But resources? And materials produced by artisans?

If mules are still in the game I expect them to carry mats, yes. And the last time we heard about them was in the context of dead mules giving less corruption than a normal kill, so, in theory, they should be attacked more often than just players.

But we also don't know how looting them will work. The white icons from the showcase might imply stolen goods that you gotta process or smth.

But if those are not stolen and several people can loot the mule for straight mats - I definitely foresee big PKing raids on any and all gatherers with mules next to them.

Then you will be a happy bounty hunter

Raven016 wrote: »

Then you will be a happy bounty hunter

That is really true

Percimes

NiKr wrote: »

Percimes wrote: »

If your monthly spending of rare glint is averaging 25 and you already have 12345 of the stuff in storage, why fill your backpack with more of it?

Do you know anyone who decides to simply not pick up currency? Cause I don't think I've ever seen a person like that. And glint is literally currency.

Unlike most currencies, glint isn't limited to a numerical value visible on the UI: it takes inventory space. And as anything taking inventory space, it's subject to inventory management. It's the same as any drop item from mobs, you could pick everything all the time because it's only gold in waiting. Just need the extra step of selling it to a merchant. Once you've filled all your inventory with junk to sell, you must prioritize what to keep and what to drop every time you kill a mob. Do you keep that stack of 5 twigs worth 2 copper pieces each or do you pick up that rusty dagger selling for 15 copper? In a way, glint is the same, do you pick up more twigs because they stack or should you allow yourself to ignore them because they're no longer worth the inventory space.

Percimes wrote: »

Do you keep that stack of 5 twigs worth 2 copper pieces each or do you pick up that rusty dagger selling for 15 copper? In a way, glint is the same, do you pick up more twigs because they stack or should you allow yourself to ignore them because they're no longer worth the inventory space.

But what if those 5 twigs pay your taxes?

And the abundance of any given type of glint (especially in the higher rarities) would imply that players have a shitton of money just lying around. And I'm not an economy person, but iirc that's a bad thing.

Also, as I mentioned a bit ago, it would be interesting if we get pure glint from successful node sieges, so maybe having a shitton of glint in one place could be interesting (and I'd assume you can't do anything with it once the siege is declared, cause it's a material), but I'd also be interested in seeing people's reactions to potentially losing all of their fees/taxes money

Losing potential money in the form of mats is one thing, but losing direct money that you use to pay for important things is a whole different thing. And this kinda leads me to believe that Steven won't let glint be blocked from withdrawals after siegedec, which would in turn decrease the motivation to siege

Glint is considered an easier and more simple form of what certs were supposed to be, but I feel like it instead overcomplicates a shitton of interactions.

@NiKr I'm getting the impression gold will be more abundant than people think which implies higher economic inflation and taxes. This makes me curious how expensive nodes sieges may as actually be and how frequent they may actually occur.

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

I'm getting the impression gold will be more abundant than people think which implies higher economic inflation and taxes. This makes me curious how expensive nodes sieges may as actually be and how frequent they may actually occur.

There's gonna be a SHITTON of gold. Unreasonable amounts. The game literally has a multiplier for your income built into it. I expect guilds to have millions within the first few months, if not quicker.

And yeah, depending on what exactly we loot after a siege, siege scrolls might be reaaaal expensive.

NiKr wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

I'm getting the impression gold will be more abundant than people think which implies higher economic inflation and taxes. This makes me curious how expensive nodes sieges may as actually be and how frequent they may actually occur.

There's gonna be a SHITTON of gold. Unreasonable amounts. The game literally has a multiplier for your income built into it. I expect guilds to have millions within the first few months, if not quicker.

And yeah, depending on what exactly we loot after a siege, siege scrolls might be reaaaal expensive.

exactly. Sieges could be quite a bit more affordable and increasing frequency for a gold sinks which could backfire or less affordable and players/guilds are too rich which destabilises the games economy regardless.

EDIT:

They can try and play "cat and mouse" with adjustments and metrics but in the end, players will out pace it with currency accumulations from various methods.

Aszkalon

Neurath wrote: »

Can't defend a caravan alone. Can't farm en mass alone. Can't trust randoms either. The problem is the caravan will broadcast its presence and the pvp will be corruption free. Its like a sick joke by the devs because caravan pvp still has gear degradation and a stationary caravan means people can amass a big force out of sight and sweep the caravan away.

I am confident Sir Steven and his Crew will balance it to the best of their Ability.

Like - when +10 up to +70 Players or so (lol) wait for nothing else, but a Caravan to spawn - so they can jump at most the Stuff of like 2 up to 5 People or so,

then Yes the Caravan might be done for - but aside from the fact, that You can (and "SHOULD") - send out Decoy-Caravans as well,

i bet People will find a way to balance it out ingame, to tackle the Problem of Players just lying in wait for Caravans.

When a Group ( Guild ? ) for Example is just wealthy enough -> why not hiring fellow Players as Mercenary Protectors ?

And probably include them a little bit in how much Currency the Caravan's Wares will make at the Destination picked to sell it there ?

Of Course People would need to have a certain Oversight, so that for Example the Players hired as Mercenaries to protect the Caravans, don't feel like they got swindled from the promised Percentages of the Wares sold.

I see exciting Possibilities there, not just Problems.

NiKr wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

I'm getting the impression gold will be more abundant than people think which implies higher economic inflation and taxes. This makes me curious how expensive nodes sieges may as actually be and how frequent they may actually occur.

There's gonna be a SHITTON of gold. Unreasonable amounts. The game literally has a multiplier for your income built into it. I expect guilds to have millions within the first few months, if not quicker.

And yeah, depending on what exactly we loot after a siege, siege scrolls might be reaaaal expensive.

Could be that gold will be useless and only the other currencies will be important.
The statement: "you don't drop gold when you die" is just bait.

Songcaller

Raven016 wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

Enigmatic Sage wrote: »

I'm getting the impression gold will be more abundant than people think which implies higher economic inflation and taxes. This makes me curious how expensive nodes sieges may as actually be and how frequent they may actually occur.

There's gonna be a SHITTON of gold. Unreasonable amounts. The game literally has a multiplier for your income built into it. I expect guilds to have millions within the first few months, if not quicker.

And yeah, depending on what exactly we loot after a siege, siege scrolls might be reaaaal expensive.

Could be that gold will be useless and only the other currencies will be important.
The statement: "you don't drop gold when you die" is just bait.

It would be pointless for gold to exist in such a circumstance.