I don't know much about personal caravans.
I've seen mules being mentioned as the equivalent of a personal caravan which was unclear to me because they are also protected by the corruption system. Now I consider the personal caravans as the light and fast versions which can move faster than a player can run. I don't know if fighting while riding a pet is possible so those fast caravans might have good chance to survive, depending how are balanced. Maybe are also more fragile and can be ambushed.
Personal caravans is what we saw in the stream. They are slow as fuck. And mules should supposedly be even slower, cause otherwise literally no one will use caravans at all.
It will be less efficient to have alts and help them out sending gold if they are specialized on activities which need different kind of currencies. Your artisan will not be able to give glint to your PvP alt and it will not be able to receive citizen currencies to buy some ingredients from NPCs.
The pvp alt would only need gold, because that's what you'd be buying gear with (that's if you're not sending it gear directly).
We don't know if stolen glint will be usable for the same purposes as normal one, so it's unknown if the pvp method of acquiring glint will even work as desired.
I don't know much about personal caravans.
I've seen mules being mentioned as the equivalent of a personal caravan which was unclear to me because they are also protected by the corruption system. Now I consider the personal caravans as the light and fast versions which can move faster than a player can run. I don't know if fighting while riding a pet is possible so those fast caravans might have good chance to survive, depending how are balanced. Maybe are also more fragile and can be ambushed.
Personal caravans is what we saw in the stream. They are slow as fuck. And mules should supposedly be even slower, cause otherwise literally no one will use caravans at all.
It will be less efficient to have alts and help them out sending gold if they are specialized on activities which need different kind of currencies. Your artisan will not be able to give glint to your PvP alt and it will not be able to receive citizen currencies to buy some ingredients from NPCs.
The pvp alt would only need gold, because that's what you'd be buying gear with (that's if you're not sending it gear directly).
We don't know if stolen glint will be usable for the same purposes as normal one, so it's unknown if the pvp method of acquiring glint will even work as desired.
Ah yes, I didn't thought about that. Then personal caravans can have light versions too which move fast. The slow ones you use when you travel with a small group defending you, a group which will have to get part of the profit too.
The node currency which can be obtained through PvP at military nodes I expect to not be lootable when you are killed. I wait to see how is obtained but I consider it more as a payment for training yourself to be ready to fight as any citizen of a military node should do. But you are right, that is also for PvPers but not to create conflict in the node between citizens. Actually the entire military node is for PvPers.
Stolen glint can be redeemed for a lesser value (than the original glint) at black market locations.[3][1]
Currency which can be looted by other players is what I expect to be in a PvP game, for PvPers.
Glint will drop as stolen glint on a character's death, based on applicable death penalties.[4][10][11][6][12] Glint taken from caravan wreckages is also classed as stolen.[18] Stolen glint is not bound and may be redeemed for less than its original value at black market locations.[4][10]
Glint may be used to pay housing taxes and citizen dues.[8][4][5]
Glint can be stored within node warehouses.[6]
Glint is not intended as crafting materials.[5]
Glint is a substance that embodies the Essence of the beasts of Verra.[8]
Obviously all subject to change as development continues.
Seems like stolen glint is more direct to black market. Similar to how in the elder scrolls games where if you steal something it's flagged as stolen and needs to be exchanged at a fence over a normal NPC.
I'm not really sure what there is to "get". You kill stuff out in the world and the mobs drop Glint. You use the glint to "pay" for certain things or exchange it for gold. That's it...
We currently don't know if mules are even still in the game or what their purpose now is. If mules are supposed to carry mats/gatherables - no one will use caravans for that. And if commodity multipliers are not as crazy as they currently seem to be - no one will use personal caravans at all.
Now that I think more on what you said... I was wondering if mules should be removed.
But we have not seen being able to access caravan content during this stream. Only at start and end.
Can be that mules will not be able to take commodities.
The caravan is also supposed to transform itself into a raft if no bridge is available. The mule maybe will just swim over the water, with the player riding it. For me the mule system is any mount which has large inventory, faster than a caravan which is a vehicle. Mounts which are meant to run fast should have less inventory space and while technically can be considered mules I would call them just mounts. And being half protected by corruption is an advantage for gatherers.
As for glint filling your bags... There is always the option of not picking it up? Currently in act 2 of BG3 and I certainly don't pick any of the rope I find in the Shadowlands. Why is there so much rope there?
I mean, unless we can combine lesser form of the stuff into higher grade of it, through a purification, distillation, concentration, or whatever process to refine it... Why even pick up the variants you have in excess or don't have a use for? If your monthly spending of rare glint is averaging 25 and you already have 12345 of the stuff in storage, why fill your backpack with more of it?
I know, it's crazy. We don't have to pick up everything a mob drop. It's ok, it's not wasted or missed potential.
There's always the chance you can mule on your character directly through personal inventory. You wont be carrying the commodity itself as a cargo but the resource directly unless they make the drops in the node/biome a certificate currency opposed to physical item.
Could always get the group to fill up their pockets and mule together lol
Ah yes, I didn't thought about that. Then personal caravans can have light versions too which move fast. The slow ones you use when you travel with a small group defending you, a group which will have to get part of the profit too.
No caravans can be faster than a running player, because that would mean that no one can attack them, which makes them OP at multiplying gold.
Stolen glint can be redeemed for a lesser value (than the original glint) at black market locations.[3][1]
We don't know what "redeemed" means here. Is it purifying the glint back to its normal state? Is it just giving us gold in a lesser ratio? Is it buying commodities for a higher equivalent?
The former can't be true because stolen glint is supposed to be valued at a lower cost. And I'm somewhat sure there's no exchange between the rarities, so you won't be able to change a ton of tier2 stolen glint into a lesser ton of tier1.
There's a chance that you can do smth like a 2-to-1 direct exchange within a rarity, but I feel like that would lead to a bit too much PKing for Steven's liking.
The latter 2 options only provide gold which, while useful, doesn't provide the same level of functions to the player.
For me the mule system is any mount which has large inventory, faster than a caravan which is a vehicle. Mounts which are meant to run fast should have less inventory space and while technically can be considered mules I would call them just mounts. And being half protected by corruption is an advantage for gatherers.
Mules can't be faster than a caravan because they would invalidate caravans completely. Commodities are ultimately useless if your mule can transfer your tons of glint faster than what the commodity multiplier would give you in relative gold.
@NiKr the redeemed for a lesser value would probably imply less gold than non-stolen goods redeemed for gold. This also implies that if there is commodities for sale at black market, they'll probably be more expensive with stolen glint in my perspective.
the redeemed for a lesser value would probably imply less gold than non-stolen goods redeemed for gold. This also implies that if there is commodities for sale at black market, they'll probably be more expensive with stolen glint in my perspective.
Which means that it's only meant for gold. And that could, in theory, lessen the amount of pvp attacks (both ow and caravans).
I'm curios what kind of type of glint will we get after destroying a node. Will it be stolen or pure. Cause getting pure glint would be a nice motivator for sieges. Less pvp in the ow would mean more glint hoarding for those who farm a lot, which means higher reward for sieging them.
I guess I'd be somewhat more ok with the system if it promotes more node sieges, so that'll be my feedback if Intrepid stick with glints as a feature.
the redeemed for a lesser value would probably imply less gold than non-stolen goods redeemed for gold. This also implies that if there is commodities for sale at black market, they'll probably be more expensive with stolen glint in my perspective.
Which means that it's only meant for gold. And that could, in theory, lessen the amount of pvp attacks (both ow and caravans).
I'm curios what kind of type of glint will we get after destroying a node. Will it be stolen or pure. Cause getting pure glint would be a nice motivator for sieges. Less pvp in the ow would mean more glint hoarding for those who farm a lot, which means higher reward for sieging them.
I guess I'd be somewhat more ok with the system if it promotes more node sieges, so that'll be my feedback if Intrepid stick with glints as a feature.
exactly, seems like stolen glint is for less gold through the black market and possibly over priced commodities.
I want to say the spoils of the node siege is going to be "pure" glint but now I'm wondering if that's the case. Technically the current node wouldn't exist anymore but does spoils of war and pillage have two different glint options?
Either way you're still getting gold or commodities with stolen glint?
Ah yes, I didn't thought about that. Then personal caravans can have light versions too which move fast. The slow ones you use when you travel with a small group defending you, a group which will have to get part of the profit too.
No caravans can be faster than a running player, because that would mean that no one can attack them, which makes them OP at multiplying gold.
I had to go and check the stream again. I thought I misunderstood
Caravan system has an inherent risk and that is that players out on the roads when you're far away from these node locations can gank your Caravans but as I was describing in the Showcase this is something that will influence how you construct your Caravan and which components you want to go for. So for example if you're a solo player and you don't intend on transiting a lot of materials at once you may not need the large cargo capacity but instead you want the faster speed because you intend to outrun any potential adversaries that you might face on the roads. That is a viable strategic option for you when constructing your Caravan.
This goes for a lot of the node features right where we're trying to create these ways for you know people who maybe are used to sort of a more solo MMO like gameplay experience to have easy ways to take that first step into like collaborating or competing with each other so that's really one of the things that we spent a lot of time talking about for this system. I assume that in regards to the design of the component system if I am utilizing components that might give my Caravan a significantly higher stat of speed it's unlikely that I would also at the same time be able to select components that were to give an equitable amount of benefit in the stat of let's say cargo or health. It's going to be tradeoff in that sense.
You'll be able to have Caravans of different customizations but there won't be one Caravan that does everything to best you have to make sacrifices depending on what you want to use your Caravan for.
If you want to have an off-road Caravan, a really fast onroad Caravan or just a slow tanky Caravan that can hold a lot of stuff, there'll be lot of options players can choose
I can see the obvious benefit and choices that certain players will have, if you're more solo oriented player you might just want to have the fastest possible Caravan around because you're not worrying about people to stick close to you but also if you do come under attack your chances of succeeding at a fight are far less than getting away by speed
Stolen glint can be redeemed for a lesser value (than the original glint) at black market locations.[3][1]
We don't know what "redeemed" means here. Is it purifying the glint back to its normal state? Is it just giving us gold in a lesser ratio? Is it buying commodities for a higher equivalent?
The former can't be true because stolen glint is supposed to be valued at a lower cost. And I'm somewhat sure there's no exchange between the rarities, so you won't be able to change a ton of tier2 stolen glint into a lesser ton of tier1.
There's a chance that you can do smth like a 2-to-1 direct exchange within a rarity, but I feel like that would lead to a bit too much PKing for Steven's liking.
The latter 2 options only provide gold which, while useful, doesn't provide the same level of functions to the player.
Yes, we need more information. The way I understand is that the stolen glint give just gold.
You will not be able to pay taxes with it, probably because it can be given to other players so is just like gold but not yet converted.
I had to go and check the stream again. I thought I misunderstood
I agree those are good quotes against what I'm saying. We'll have to see which one of those survive the testing, where literally everyone simply takes the fastest caravans and outruns any attackers, while multiplying their income by dozenfold, because they can now go from southernmost point on the map to the northernmost point.
It's the classic "plans don't survive an encounter" type of deal. If a caravan, that's faster than attackers, can only carry a tiny piece of coms that would yield less money than just selling some glint - no one will use it.
And if that caravan can carry just enough coms to benefit from running it - everyone will use it, because it'll be all the reward with none the risk.
This then leads me to believe that Steven will then try to force people to use slower caravans in some way, which will be even worse for the system
For me the mule system is any mount which has large inventory, faster than a caravan which is a vehicle. Mounts which are meant to run fast should have less inventory space and while technically can be considered mules I would call them just mounts. And being half protected by corruption is an advantage for gatherers.
Mules can't be faster than a caravan because they would invalidate caravans completely. Commodities are ultimately useless if your mule can transfer your tons of glint faster than what the commodity multiplier would give you in relative gold.
So mules will not be able to transport commodities. That's clear.
But resources? And materials produced by artisans?
I had to go and check the stream again. I thought I misunderstood
I agree those are good quotes against what I'm saying. We'll have to see which one of those survive the testing, where literally everyone simply takes the fastest caravans and outruns any attackers, while multiplying their income by dozenfold, because they can now go from southernmost point on the map to the northernmost point.
It's the classic "plans don't survive an encounter" type of deal. If a caravan, that's faster than attackers, can only carry a tiny piece of coms that would yield less money than just selling some glint - no one will use it.
And if that caravan can carry just enough coms to benefit from running it - everyone will use it, because it'll be all the reward with none the risk.
This then leads me to believe that Steven will then try to force people to use slower caravans in some way, which will be even worse for the system
I would rather add features which allow ways to ambush such caravans. They'll try to run away but maybe the chance to succeed will depend on caravan state, if it survived a previous attack or not, if is onroad or offroad...
Ideally the slow caravans must be more profitable for groups than each of those players in the group to take a light caravan. There must be ways to balance the profit to make players group.
So mules will not be able to transport commodities. That's clear.
But resources? And materials produced by artisans?
If mules are still in the game I expect them to carry mats, yes. And the last time we heard about them was in the context of dead mules giving less corruption than a normal kill, so, in theory, they should be attacked more often than just players.
But we also don't know how looting them will work. The white icons from the showcase might imply stolen goods that you gotta process or smth.
But if those are not stolen and several people can loot the mule for straight mats - I definitely foresee big PKing raids on any and all gatherers with mules next to them.
I would rather add features which allow ways to ambush such caravans. They'll try to run away but maybe the chance to succeed will depend on caravan state, if it survived a previous attack or not, if is onroad or offroad...
Ideally the slow caravans must be more profitable for groups than each of those players in the group to take a light caravan. There must be ways to balance the profit to make players group.
Yeah, there might be a higher chance of road blockages for the faster caravan parts.
But if that's the case then we just come back to the "how higher is the risk to deliver a tiny piece of coms than the benefit of its multiplier over just selling the glint directly".
People will try to minimize their losses and abuse the system as much as possible one way or the other. We'll just have to see how Intrepid try to address all of that.
So mules will not be able to transport commodities. That's clear.
But resources? And materials produced by artisans?
If mules are still in the game I expect them to carry mats, yes. And the last time we heard about them was in the context of dead mules giving less corruption than a normal kill, so, in theory, they should be attacked more often than just players.
But we also don't know how looting them will work. The white icons from the showcase might imply stolen goods that you gotta process or smth.
But if those are not stolen and several people can loot the mule for straight mats - I definitely foresee big PKing raids on any and all gatherers with mules next to them.
Comments
The only pvp currency is the military node currency (in theory that is). Everything else is pve currency, because it comes from pve.
The pvp alt would only need gold, because that's what you'd be buying gear with (that's if you're not sending it gear directly).
We don't know if stolen glint will be usable for the same purposes as normal one, so it's unknown if the pvp method of acquiring glint will even work as desired.
Ah yes, I didn't thought about that. Then personal caravans can have light versions too which move fast. The slow ones you use when you travel with a small group defending you, a group which will have to get part of the profit too.
The node currency which can be obtained through PvP at military nodes I expect to not be lootable when you are killed. I wait to see how is obtained but I consider it more as a payment for training yourself to be ready to fight as any citizen of a military node should do. But you are right, that is also for PvPers but not to create conflict in the node between citizens. Actually the entire military node is for PvPers.
Stolen glint can be redeemed for a lesser value (than the original glint) at black market locations.[3][1]
Currency which can be looted by other players is what I expect to be in a PvP game, for PvPers.
Glint will drop as stolen glint on a character's death, based on applicable death penalties.[4][10][11][6][12] Glint taken from caravan wreckages is also classed as stolen.[18] Stolen glint is not bound and may be redeemed for less than its original value at black market locations.[4][10]
Glint may be used to pay housing taxes and citizen dues.[8][4][5]
Glint can be stored within node warehouses.[6]
Glint is not intended as crafting materials.[5]
Glint is a substance that embodies the Essence of the beasts of Verra.[8]
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Currency
Obviously all subject to change as development continues.
Seems like stolen glint is more direct to black market. Similar to how in the elder scrolls games where if you steal something it's flagged as stolen and needs to be exchanged at a fence over a normal NPC.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Black_markets
Black markets are service buildings that are available through upgrades to market buildings.[1]
Players may redeem stolen glint at black markets.[1]
A market is a type of unique node building in Ashes of Creation that unlocks at Village (stage 3) of an Economic node.[2]
Now that I think more on what you said... I was wondering if mules should be removed.
But we have not seen being able to access caravan content during this stream. Only at start and end.
Can be that mules will not be able to take commodities.
The caravan is also supposed to transform itself into a raft if no bridge is available. The mule maybe will just swim over the water, with the player riding it. For me the mule system is any mount which has large inventory, faster than a caravan which is a vehicle. Mounts which are meant to run fast should have less inventory space and while technically can be considered mules I would call them just mounts. And being half protected by corruption is an advantage for gatherers.
I mean, unless we can combine lesser form of the stuff into higher grade of it, through a purification, distillation, concentration, or whatever process to refine it... Why even pick up the variants you have in excess or don't have a use for? If your monthly spending of rare glint is averaging 25 and you already have 12345 of the stuff in storage, why fill your backpack with more of it?
I know, it's crazy. We don't have to pick up everything a mob drop. It's ok, it's not wasted or missed potential.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Commodities
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_commodities
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Node_commodities
looks like they're really pushing the caravan method
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Gathering
That page is big
I like the caravan system as it was presented with commodities.
I don't think transporting resources with caravans is a good idea.
how would you transport resources then?
The same way they reached the node.
It's not like I walk in the forest mining stone and cutting wood followed by a caravan.
such small scale won't always cut it. Not sure if crates can go on mules either.
The resources are essentially commodities, look at the list of gatherable and compare the two lol
if you found the link on node commodoities
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Industrial_goods
Nodes types will have certain currencies. Specific resources types and subcategories directly related to certain biomes etc
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Currency
node commodities and node currency could directly be related
There is supposed to be resource scarcity. And if you invest a lot of time gathering them to lose them all in a single transport, then is bad.
Could always get the group to fill up their pockets and mule together lol
We don't know what "redeemed" means here. Is it purifying the glint back to its normal state? Is it just giving us gold in a lesser ratio? Is it buying commodities for a higher equivalent?
The former can't be true because stolen glint is supposed to be valued at a lower cost. And I'm somewhat sure there's no exchange between the rarities, so you won't be able to change a ton of tier2 stolen glint into a lesser ton of tier1.
There's a chance that you can do smth like a 2-to-1 direct exchange within a rarity, but I feel like that would lead to a bit too much PKing for Steven's liking.
The latter 2 options only provide gold which, while useful, doesn't provide the same level of functions to the player.
Mules can't be faster than a caravan because they would invalidate caravans completely. Commodities are ultimately useless if your mule can transfer your tons of glint faster than what the commodity multiplier would give you in relative gold.
Do you know anyone who decides to simply not pick up currency? Cause I don't think I've ever seen a person like that. And glint is literally currency.
I'm curios what kind of type of glint will we get after destroying a node. Will it be stolen or pure. Cause getting pure glint would be a nice motivator for sieges. Less pvp in the ow would mean more glint hoarding for those who farm a lot, which means higher reward for sieging them.
I guess I'd be somewhat more ok with the system if it promotes more node sieges, so that'll be my feedback if Intrepid stick with glints as a feature.
exactly, seems like stolen glint is for less gold through the black market and possibly over priced commodities.
I want to say the spoils of the node siege is going to be "pure" glint but now I'm wondering if that's the case. Technically the current node wouldn't exist anymore but does spoils of war and pillage have two different glint options?
Either way you're still getting gold or commodities with stolen glint?
Pure glint (commodities vendor)
10 glint redeemed for: 10 gold
10 glint redeemed for: Case of Kaelar Wooden Soldiers
vs
Stolen glint (black market vendor)
10 stolen glint redeemed for: 5 gold
20 stolen glint redeemed for: Case of Kaelar Wooden Soldiers
I had to go and check the stream again. I thought I misunderstood
https://youtu.be/sNfwQILIasQ?t=4352
Caravan system has an inherent risk and that is that players out on the roads when you're far away from these node locations can gank your Caravans but as I was describing in the Showcase this is something that will influence how you construct your Caravan and which components you want to go for. So for example if you're a solo player and you don't intend on transiting a lot of materials at once you may not need the large cargo capacity but instead you want the faster speed because you intend to outrun any potential adversaries that you might face on the roads. That is a viable strategic option for you when constructing your Caravan.
https://youtu.be/sNfwQILIasQ?t=2529
This goes for a lot of the node features right where we're trying to create these ways for you know people who maybe are used to sort of a more solo MMO like gameplay experience to have easy ways to take that first step into like collaborating or competing with each other so that's really one of the things that we spent a lot of time talking about for this system. I assume that in regards to the design of the component system if I am utilizing components that might give my Caravan a significantly higher stat of speed it's unlikely that I would also at the same time be able to select components that were to give an equitable amount of benefit in the stat of let's say cargo or health. It's going to be tradeoff in that sense.
You'll be able to have Caravans of different customizations but there won't be one Caravan that does everything to best you have to make sacrifices depending on what you want to use your Caravan for.
If you want to have an off-road Caravan, a really fast onroad Caravan or just a slow tanky Caravan that can hold a lot of stuff, there'll be lot of options players can choose
I can see the obvious benefit and choices that certain players will have, if you're more solo oriented player you might just want to have the fastest possible Caravan around because you're not worrying about people to stick close to you but also if you do come under attack your chances of succeeding at a fight are far less than getting away by speed
Yes, we need more information. The way I understand is that the stolen glint give just gold.
You will not be able to pay taxes with it, probably because it can be given to other players so is just like gold but not yet converted.
It's the classic "plans don't survive an encounter" type of deal. If a caravan, that's faster than attackers, can only carry a tiny piece of coms that would yield less money than just selling some glint - no one will use it.
And if that caravan can carry just enough coms to benefit from running it - everyone will use it, because it'll be all the reward with none the risk.
This then leads me to believe that Steven will then try to force people to use slower caravans in some way, which will be even worse for the system
But resources? And materials produced by artisans?
I would rather add features which allow ways to ambush such caravans. They'll try to run away but maybe the chance to succeed will depend on caravan state, if it survived a previous attack or not, if is onroad or offroad...
Ideally the slow caravans must be more profitable for groups than each of those players in the group to take a light caravan. There must be ways to balance the profit to make players group.
But we also don't know how looting them will work. The white icons from the showcase might imply stolen goods that you gotta process or smth.
But if those are not stolen and several people can loot the mule for straight mats - I definitely foresee big PKing raids on any and all gatherers with mules next to them.
But if that's the case then we just come back to the "how higher is the risk to deliver a tiny piece of coms than the benefit of its multiplier over just selling the glint directly".
People will try to minimize their losses and abuse the system as much as possible one way or the other. We'll just have to see how Intrepid try to address all of that.
Then you will be a happy bounty hunter