Alpha 2 keys and access - thank you intrepid for listening to feedback
lagz
Member
Intrepid says they read the forums so im going to leave this here. It wont make any difference, but its my opinion. I have followed this game since the kickstarter, i have never believed the hate it got, or that it wasnt going to eventually release. And im not even saying i wont try it when it comes out, or that i dislike intrepid, or steven, but I have a lost a lot of faith recently.
The pre order packs were ridiculously over priced. You can say they were not, and i would say you are insane. But most of us didnt complain, because supporting a game that you believe in is good, and if you were actually going to play the game on release then they had some value.
Then you guys removed the packs, and thats when i started to realize what you were going to do. And sure enough, today we got the confirmation. Predatory FOMO, and ridiculous pricing. You can say this is an alpha test all you want. You can say people shouldn't be buying alpha or beta access expecting a game, and i agree. But on the other hand, if thats what you truly wanted, you should have not sold alpha or beta access and just chose select active members of the community. No, this is a game, as well as testing of a game, and people want to test the alpha, help with the process, and have the experience themselves. And slapping them in the face to do it is the wrong way to go about it.
You also say you understand that new people are discovering AOC every day, so they why snub those people as well? Why remove pre order packages when the game is literally multiple years from release? Even if you cant sell your 500 dollar packages anymore, because alpha 1 is ending, you still could have sold the higher priced packs.
And if you removed the packages because the servers couldnt handle it, but brought keys back because now they can, why not just bring back the packs? Or new packs with an increased price?
IMO removing the packs was a mistake and shady. But more than that, turning around and selling these alpha 2 keys for ONLY alpha 2 access is just awful. Nothing else with it. And then what, sell beta 1 access later? And then beta 2? Come on guys, the only people that dont think that is awful are the people with access already, or the biggest intrepid supporters that dont want to say you're wrong.
I think everyone at intrepid is great. I think you guys do an amazing job, and i dont think its a bad thing to say you're making a massive mistake with this. You should just bring back pre order packs, before its too late. Change the pricing if you wish. But at least give people the option to pay ONE TIME for alpha and beta access, and maybe the option to buy a skin or game time with it. Doing it this way is just losing trust with a lot of people for no reason. You could still make plenty of money selling pre order packs similar to how they were before.
I feel like prefacing that you know not everyone is going to be happy with this, and that you cant please everyone, and that everyone is different, changes nothing. While those things are true, if you are targeting people without A2 access, and those people are telling you that this feels reeeaaally bad, then maybe its worth hearing out?
Buying an alpha 2 key for 120 bucks, without anything else, when some months ago you could have bought the $250 pack with all of this other stuff, does not feel good. At all.
Access to future Alpha-2 test phase
Access to future Beta-1 test phase
Access to future Beta-2 test phase
9 months of game time ($135 value)
$125 in Embers (in-game marketplace credits)
16,250 Embers total.
Also with multiple skins (dwelling, mount, etc) and a name reserve.
But now you want to sell ONLY alpha 2 access for half of that price? This is wild. There is absolutely no legitimate reason for doing this. Taking away a pre order this early is just crazy. You could put that same pack up for 250, take away the embers, drop the game time to 6 months, or 3 or whatever, throw in a costume, and still make a ton of money while not making people feel like they are worthless.
GG hope you change your mind.
The pre order packs were ridiculously over priced. You can say they were not, and i would say you are insane. But most of us didnt complain, because supporting a game that you believe in is good, and if you were actually going to play the game on release then they had some value.
Then you guys removed the packs, and thats when i started to realize what you were going to do. And sure enough, today we got the confirmation. Predatory FOMO, and ridiculous pricing. You can say this is an alpha test all you want. You can say people shouldn't be buying alpha or beta access expecting a game, and i agree. But on the other hand, if thats what you truly wanted, you should have not sold alpha or beta access and just chose select active members of the community. No, this is a game, as well as testing of a game, and people want to test the alpha, help with the process, and have the experience themselves. And slapping them in the face to do it is the wrong way to go about it.
You also say you understand that new people are discovering AOC every day, so they why snub those people as well? Why remove pre order packages when the game is literally multiple years from release? Even if you cant sell your 500 dollar packages anymore, because alpha 1 is ending, you still could have sold the higher priced packs.
And if you removed the packages because the servers couldnt handle it, but brought keys back because now they can, why not just bring back the packs? Or new packs with an increased price?
IMO removing the packs was a mistake and shady. But more than that, turning around and selling these alpha 2 keys for ONLY alpha 2 access is just awful. Nothing else with it. And then what, sell beta 1 access later? And then beta 2? Come on guys, the only people that dont think that is awful are the people with access already, or the biggest intrepid supporters that dont want to say you're wrong.
I think everyone at intrepid is great. I think you guys do an amazing job, and i dont think its a bad thing to say you're making a massive mistake with this. You should just bring back pre order packs, before its too late. Change the pricing if you wish. But at least give people the option to pay ONE TIME for alpha and beta access, and maybe the option to buy a skin or game time with it. Doing it this way is just losing trust with a lot of people for no reason. You could still make plenty of money selling pre order packs similar to how they were before.
I feel like prefacing that you know not everyone is going to be happy with this, and that you cant please everyone, and that everyone is different, changes nothing. While those things are true, if you are targeting people without A2 access, and those people are telling you that this feels reeeaaally bad, then maybe its worth hearing out?
Buying an alpha 2 key for 120 bucks, without anything else, when some months ago you could have bought the $250 pack with all of this other stuff, does not feel good. At all.
Access to future Alpha-2 test phase
Access to future Beta-1 test phase
Access to future Beta-2 test phase
9 months of game time ($135 value)
$125 in Embers (in-game marketplace credits)
16,250 Embers total.
Also with multiple skins (dwelling, mount, etc) and a name reserve.
But now you want to sell ONLY alpha 2 access for half of that price? This is wild. There is absolutely no legitimate reason for doing this. Taking away a pre order this early is just crazy. You could put that same pack up for 250, take away the embers, drop the game time to 6 months, or 3 or whatever, throw in a costume, and still make a ton of money while not making people feel like they are worthless.
GG hope you change your mind.
5
Comments
Keep in mind this test will go for at least 12 months. And it isnt only alpha access. It does include the betas (Confirmed today) they still have to keep up dev costs and server infrastructure so 10 dollars a month is perfectly reasonable.
The game will cost more monthly on release.
These keys are also cheaper than the kickstarter early birders for the same phase. (Not much cheaper. Still relevant though.)
The previous packs were also all about NPCs and creatures being added to the world. I don't want the art and modellers/QA team making up random stuff and making sure it works forever when they haven't even churned out the released game. That's how you end up with shit like star citizen.
- You really disliked the pre-order packages prices.
- You disliked the removal of the pre-order packages.
- You don't believe anything IS has ever said about the reasons they do such and such is true.
- Because you're assuming there is alsways some hidden motives such as taking advantage on us or making more money than necessary.
- You're also assuming -to some extent- that you do speak for a large part of the community.
--
Of course you're free to believe whatever you want. And perhaps you're event right.
Even if I'm not a fan of the pre-orders / alpha 2 access prices, I definitely believe the motives behind these decisions (especially about the prices) is not to scam / take advantage of gamers.
It's because of servers costs and maintenance cost, because these servers will be up during a long time and this comes with a price, because IS members will be dedicated to A2 and will need to be paid, because they have to set a some price limit in order to not over-saturate the servers infrastructure they're building, etc.
I'd just like you to realize that you building up these scenarii in your mind absolutely does not make them true. Not at all.
Since we can't read people mind, there's a point where each and every one of us has to chose whether they trust or not that Intrepid is doing what they're doing for good reasons.
There will always be some risk associated with trusting anyone or anything.
Just realize that going so far into your doubting and distrust put a lot of pressure... on you.
Not everyone on earth is trying to take advantage on you. This is a fact.
95% of people dont give a shit about cosmetic theyre just a bonus for backing earlier (aka more risks some can even say the embers are lower value too since they only buy cosmetic aswell however u atleast get to choose the cosmetic where in the packs not so much)
So yeah i think the price is pretty dead atm comparing it to original packs
Also alpha runs all the way to release so beta access packs realy isnt required and there also only gonna run for a couple weeks each anyway assuming thats still the plan for devs. Beta is basicly when they want the window shoppers in for cheap to try the game out since at beta the game will be basicly completed and ready to go it just a final test before release.
Also A2 will probaly be around 2 years they said atleast 12 months but i feel 2years is probaly more accurate tbh with delays and hiccups and during that time they be paying for server to stay online since there no subscription fee in the alpha timeframe
If there are buyers, why wouldnt they sell it? You call it predatory, but they just making sure there are not millions of testers for whom they wont be able to put enough servers for alpha testing. And in the same time getting big $ numbers also.
No one forcing you to buy it. And yes 100$ for key is ridiculous, i agree. Most Good full games are half this price. And you pay double to be a tester. That in the first place intrepid should have been the one who pay players to test their game.
But again, if there are enough people willing to buy those keys, then why shouldnt they over price it?
I guess the tester paywall will filter out the excess of people just playing the alpha and not contributing to the real testing and bug reporting
Their should be a preorder for the finished game that includes alpha + beta keys. Purchasing this is already a display of big support for a company and faith in a game that's not even released. And I would have happily done that. But these prices and the value you get feel malicious.
This killed my hype I had for October.
The previous packs and this current offering of Alpha 2 keys are a continuation of the crowd funding and really need to be considered in that light. Buyer beware. And for most it’s do not buy, do not buy, do not buy.
I really hate arguments on game forums but i guess ill take the challenge. This is just my opinion, as a consumer, for the team, because they say they read the forums. Which i believe.
But that being said, lets clarify some things, and then ill ask you a question and maybe you can be the one to give me a better answer than any of the other people defending this. First, i dont think i speak for anyone but myself. But considering the amount of youtube videos today criticizing this, the way the twitch chat reacted during the live stream, and the fact that intrepid have already back tracked, somewhat, and given beta access with this 120 alpha key, i would say i am certainly not alone.
Also its not that i dont believe them, i just think its coincidental that after all this time they take down the pre order packs when the alpha 2 is getting close, only to try and sell access to alpha 2 later for 120 bucks. Now maybe this was because they had enough testers and they didnt need more money, more people, and the servers couldnt handle it. I dont live on the forums or discord, but thats what i understood it to be. But ill get to that.
So just like you i wasnt a fan of the pricing of the pre order packs but i didnt "really dislike them". I also dont really dislike them removing them, if they had to. What i really dislike is them removing them completely when the reason for their removal now seems to be no longer an issue.
So now let me ask you a couple questions, if you dont mind. Why do you think it is reasonable to not bring the pre order packs back, or some form of them? Why do you think its ok that they are acting like this is something they absolutely cannot do? Because from where im sitting, the 250 dollar pack seems a lot more reasonable to players who actually intend on playing the game on release, than spending almost half that just to alpha test the game.
Why couldnt they sell the alpha key while also selling pre order packs. The point here is that in the live stream they said they couldnt make everyone happy, and acted like they could not bring back the packs. But this seems like an easy way to do that. The people with access already shouldnt care, the people who dont mind paying 120 bucks to alpha test a game are happy, and the people who feel like they should at least get something with the money they spend are also happy.
At the end of the day, if this is the path they choose, ill probably still play the game. I dont hold ill will towards them over this. I just think its a bad choice, thats all. And maybe a bit disingenuous. Sure, you will never make the people happy who thought the price is too high. But selling the keys and the pre orders could make most people happy. The way they create this fabricated exclusivity is silly.
ya i mean you're not wrong that some people dont care about skins. But it wasnt just skins, it was game time, and embers. And i was also wrong with the pack i listed in my OP. But even comparing the actual 250 dollar pack to just the keys we have;
Access to future Alpha-2 test phase
Access to future Beta-1 test phase
Access to future Beta-2 test phase
6 months of game time ($90 value)
$100 in Embers (in-game marketplace credits)
Along with an accessory skin, mount skin, and pet skin.
So 190 dollars in embers and game time. And im not sure how much skins are but if were going on other games, lets be generous and say 5 bucks for an accessory, 5 bucks for a pet, and 10 for a mount. That leaves us at 210 dollars. So 40 for the alpha and beta access.
Ill reiterate. They could easily sell a pre order pack, like this, along side this alpha key. Something like, 3 months of game time, a mount skin, 20 dollars in embers, and the alpha/beta access. for 250 bucks or whatever. OR better yet, drop the alpha/beta access down to like 50 bucks, and then sell the more expensive pre order pack to make the difference. Either way, but then at least both people who only want the alpha/beta are happy, and people who feel like they should get something for spending a good amount of money.
My biggest issue is i think its silly and disingenuous to not bring any pre order packs back. There is no good reason for not doing it, not while they are still selling access to alpha 2 and the betas. But if someone could give me a reason, id live to hear it. And i also think its just causing more issues than were needed. You will always have people that think spending money to test a game is crazy, it is what it is.
But credit where credit is due, i dont think its enough but i am happy they listened to people and added beta access to these 120 dollar packs. I think the fact that they were going to only sell the alpha 2 key is very concerning, and out of touch, but at least they went back on it. So i do appreciate that.
If you wanted a pack they were available for years.
No. People are misunderstanding. I am calling it predatory to take down the pre order packs, even with good reason, only to then sell these keys a year later. If this 120 key didnt come out, then i dont think its predatory. But with the keys, the packs should have come back.
Spending 250 bucks for like 200 bucks worth of in game stuff for the game that you intend on playing one day, with alpha/beta access, is a much better deal than spending 120 bucks on what was only an alpha when i wrote this, and is now alpha and beta access.
And im not sure why anyone would disagree with this? Or why intrepid has created this artificial issue to not bring the pre orders back? Tell me, did anyone see this level of outcry over the pre order packs? Even the 500 dollar one? I mean maybe a bit, but mostly people memeing imo.
And again, selling packs along with just the keys could maybe drop the price of the keys, which is another part of the issue, but not the one i am confused about.
They said keys may be available at a later date but packs wouldn't.
They will have more problems selling them cheaper for example backlash from those who had to buy the full pack and buyers who don't care about testing.
I don't see how its predatory they had 6 years to buy a pack, they were told they would be ending, they asked for keys, they were sold keys. They haven't mislead anyone or tried to force the keys on them.
That would lead to a large influx of players in the first days and then they would simply leave.
That is what Intrepid Studios tries to avoid.
No, you guys over complicate it because you want to defend them. Which is to be expected on the forums. They are not in an impossible situation, they are not going to lose trust or upset reasonable people if they brought a pre order pack or multiple packs back. Thats an incredibly strange thing to suggest. Who would care if they said, look we took the packs down because the servers couldnt handle it, now they can so we are putting the $250 pack back up, as well as selling just only alpha 2/beta 1/2 access for 120 dollars.
Its literally just that simple, as much as you want to over complicate it. No one suggested they make cheaper packs, even though thats basically what they have done with these keys, and they have already upset the people that cared that they bought a pre order pack before and now other people are able to buy only the alpha/beta access. They didnt care about upsetting those people.
If you ask me, had they just brought the 250 dollar voyager pack back and never mentioned anything else they would not have upset anyone. Except the same people that have always been upset, the people that think 500, 375, 250, 120, or 75 dollars, is too much for an alpha access. Those people arent changing their mind.
Im sorry but i have yet to hear a good reason as to why selling either the $250 pre order pack, or something similar, along side the $120 alpha/beta access, would be a bad idea. Both people in this thread and intrepid like to talk about how they cant please everyone, and some people are always going to be upset, but that seems like the easiest way to upset the least amount of people and still make them money.
Now all they have done is made people weary of them because they tried to sell this as only alpha access. That was probably the biggest mistake of all, which they have remedied, but they still tried. But still, not bringing some kind of pre order pack back is also a big mistake. A lot of people do not like the idea of a company selling alpha testing for 120 dollars, but at least if there is some more offered, even at a higher price, it makes it seem better.
But im tired of arguing this, and its not what i wanted to do. The choice is up to intrepid. The made the right choice by giving beta access to this $120 key, maybe they will also make another good choice and bring some kind of pre order pack back. Even re name it, if it makes you feel better.
I found a solution! \o/
Intrepid Studio keep saying that Alpha 2 is for testing not for playing.
But having so many testers makes testers feel useless and they can lose motivation..
So devs should generate enough unique bugs for everyone!!
Whenever a boss is about to die, let players client crash and loose progress.
Disconnects in the lawless zone will be fun too with some cryptic error messages written in Tulnar language.
Of course these generated bugs should be mentioned as a guaranteed reward for paying for the Alpha 2 access (for kickstarters and voyager pack owners too)
Each such occurrence should give some tester experience and progression which would reduce the chance of them happening but they should get also nastier when they happen (like getting corruption when picking up rare drops).
I'm with you buddy. I feel for all the beta holders. I may not be now, but I used to be one of you. And I would be feeling pretty miffed if I still were.
Lotteries must be done with care.
https://youtu.be/YgKgY2pe15U?t=140
I think they should allow upgrading each beta key to alpha right now too, by letting them pay the difference:
In the $150 Expeditionary Pre-order Package
Access to future Beta One test phase (x)
Access to future Beta Two test phase (y) where x+y = $20
4 months of game time ($60 Value)
$50 in Embers (in-game marketplace credits, NO P2W!)
Lavaliere of Devotion ($5)
Flaming Skull of Unrest ($15)
In the $100 key they give $15 embers and $15 subscription.
Means that Alpha access + Beta 1 + Beta 2 = $70 = x + y + alpha
Means Alpha = $50
If you add the alpha to the Expeditionary Pre-order Package, the price becomes $200
The mistakes of the consumer do not relate to the mistakes of the seller. Intrepid's only mistake rn is caving in to all the whiners and complainers, which led directly to fucking several types of people over. They should've just had a $120 key that gives you access to A2 in october. That's it.
All the people that, allegedly, made Intrepid put this sale out would buy it, and everyone else would shut up as soon as A2 is out, because they'd be watching streams of it.
I don't know how upgrades work. I was not aware it is already possible to upgrade.
Can you upgrade also to Alpha 2 (Voyager Pre-order Package)?
Yeah the b2 people can upgrade for an extra 175 USD if they want access to alpha 2. But it comes with all the skins and stuff associated with it.
But it's a joke for previous purchasers who never cared about those and are at that low tier now seeing people closely matching your your original purchase value seeing these new people paying LESS and getting to jump ahead of you in the access queue
I've seen a few people in outside communities laughing at the "poor beta" people who were proud to support intrepid early. And now they feel like a bunch of clowns.
$175 is huge. Shouldn't be larger than the difference: $250 - $150 = $100
Was that info even available before purchase?