I like the idea of having specific quests required to unlock a secondary archetype (eventually you can do every secondary archetype quest to unlock switching to them).
Something like a quest line for a magical book to unlock selecting mage as secondary. Maybe there is a roaming Bard NPC in a certain biome or two who is a renowned story teller and you follow some quests with him to unlock secondary Bard.
An added point to this, it would be cool to hear about these through breadcrumbs from appropriate npcs. It’s been mentioned in this thread: hubs that are related to archetypes like Ranger Lodges, Cleric Temples, Rogue hideouts (etc.). Maybe an NPC here can give you bread crumbs or hints to finding the way to become that secondary?
I feel as if these types of interactions with typical “menu based systems” would get players traveling and exploring, maybe going to regions far away to learn how to be a secondary “whatever”. This causes emergent gameplay for everyone involved in the journey!
It would be good for archetypes to have some backstory presence, and be interwoven with the world's setting, culture, quest lines etc. I don't think this should be really forced tho, as it will feel artificial. A quest line about some famous orc fighter warlord? A point of interest with a tower of a local arch wizard, which teaches you a rare abilities, after completion of a quest line. In-game books with a short tragic or funny legend about some dwarven hunter, first believer/cleric of some forgotten deity, tragic story of a last stand of some human templars who died defending a monastery of their deity from a horde of local orc warlord etc etc.
Also I would make those archetypes present in the game world as NPCs in locations which makes sense: temples, hunters lodge, orc war camp, necromancer den, a wondering NPC bard which sings a funny song whilst they walk through a town.
Storytelling is a big aspect of progression, and since classes are a big part of progression I think its natural that classes play a role in the storytelling and vice versa
1. Key premise, character vs. player storytelling and role-play:
Good storytelling in the gaming medium is experiential. Gameplay choice and role-play is a part of storytelling. This begs the question though, are you experiencing the story that you forge yourself as a player of the game through your own choices and expression, or are you experiencing the story of the character you are playing as through their pre-dispositions and the content that is unique to them?
This video is a great analysis on this topic of what the Mass Effect series taught us about the relationship between both the character (class, in this case) and the player's role in the story, and how you can provide opportunities for role-play and expression that still fits into an overarching narrative that contains philisophical lessons and moral ambiguity.
How can you have a world where every player makes there own unique choices, story, and role-plays in their own unique way, while also using a character and class that has its own background, history, skills, knowledge, way of life, etc.?
I think ideally it is a combination of both having pre-established content that focuses on different themes and role-play opportunities (like uniquely themed class quests), while also giving players the freedom to choose which themes they want to identify and engage with (such as knowingly making a class choice that will determine certain quest chains) and also allowing players the flexibility to role-play in their own way as a player (like quests for the tank being role play options that are themed around protecting the innocent, but players can role plau as a selfish tank who doesnt care about others instead.)
I think that in order to properly role-play as a player, there needs to be different scenarios and challenges that allow for your own personal expression. This means there should be opportunities for role-play for different types of players, which is just a part of having that agency and personal immersive story, which is what alot of the systems in Ashes already provides opportunities for, (like having progression paths for both crafters and adventurer type players, etc.). That means there will be content centered around each experience to allow players to properly role-play that experience, as players choose to engage with it. I think classes and class stories could be the same way in that regard, in that different classes could represent different types of players and have their own unique backgrounds and stories that players can choose to identify with and choose to experience. Maybe different classes have different ideals, personalities, etc., such as bards in Ashes representing charismatic players, and there are quests and stories revolving around and challenging that personality trait to allow players to role-play as a charismatic type of character.
There are a few potential issues with this. People are not one-dimensional, there would need to be a host of different class themes represented in order to resonate with and appeal to different types of players (such as different classes themed as various traits, ideals, etc., in different combinations). There also would need to be a lot of opportunity for expression, change, growth, and just role-play in general for each type of player in order to have the best possible role-play experience and to engage with the story in a more immersive manner (basically players shouldn't be pidgeon-holed into playing through there class story a certain way, the themes should be more like guidelines or tendencies to attract different players to different classes to experience that type of role-play opportunity, or to derail from it if they want to). Different classes should have themes that are more like "tendencies" because not all bards are going to think and behave the same way within a story. I think the way to do this is similar to that in the video analysis I linked, in that your choice to play as a bard nudges you in the direction of certain unique themes, questlines, content, and role-play opportunites that you have to navigate through as you make your own peronal choices as a player. A bard might have questlines that have themes centered around how charismatic you are, but you the player have to make that decision on whether you want to behave that way or act a completely different way, and if you would rather role-play as a courageous protector of the innocent, maybe you would lean more towards the questlines that are available to the Tank archetype for example.
The other potential option is to not have any pre-established "class tendencies" or anything like that, and any personal story themes/questlines can be explored and experienced at any time the player chooses to role-play in that way, regardless of what class choice was already made. The personal stories of different classes would instead revolve around their past experiences, how they got to this point, or just focused on how they got their abilties and skills themselves with no actual story connection to their actual character traits/personalities.
I think either of these approaches might be good ways of marrying the ideas of-
1. having specific stories you want to tell through classes
2. role-playing as a character who exists within the game world
without compromising the ideas of-
3. players forming their own stories
4. players being able to express themselves through their own role-play decisions
I think this overall idea of allowing for emergent choices within various branching paths of curated content might be kind of similar to the design approach you are taking already with the overall story arc system, but appplied on a smaller scale with individual class quests and role-play options.
2. Storytelling through both character and player progression/role-play:
If storytelling of the class gameplay/role-play experience (unique questlines/branching story choices/etc.) is able marry the ideas of rpg character and real-life player expression, then the storytelling of the class progression experience (the leveling journey/totality of story decisions/class fantasy and mastery/etc.) should also marry the ideas of both the character's progression within the game and the player's progression as a gamer.
what is the class story experience revolving around both your character's in-game growth and your own personal story and growth as an mmo player?
A- Class specific progression/role-play story:
Here are some story progression aspects that might be considered unique to the character itself within the game
- what is the history and background lore of the class? How and why did the class get to that point before the player takes control?
- The progression of the class itself within the game world (tutorialization, character skill growth, ideology/personality/goals, etc.) all as part of the character's storytelling. Why is the class needing to learn stuff? Why and how are they acquiring new skills and strength? Why does the class behave the way they do or have the tendencies they have? Who are the people in Verra who are teaching things to that class, and why does that class want to be influenced by those people in particular?
- who in Verra are the natural enemies and friends of that class and why, and how could that change?
- what does it mean to be a master of the class within Verra?
- what makes the knowledge and skill of your class unique?
- what are the ideological tendencies of that class, why, and how are those ideals either challenged or reinforced throughout the story?
- how do other npcs interact with that class and why?
B- Player specific progression/role-play story:
Here are some aspects that might be considered more unique to the player story throughout the gameplay experience using a particular class.
The story of your class should foster a story that is unique to the player behind the class, of which is reflective of their own personal choices, role-play, and growth/change as a player, as they seek to master the class and to experience the class fantasy. This is a part of experiential storytelling, in that the class related systems should immerse and empower the player to feel like they are a part of the class story, and that they themselves are on a journey of growth and progress as a player of the class.
This could involve a host of various things such as
- improving your own personal performance of the class to strive toward mastering the class fantasy. (Your class progresses and grows stronger in-game but so do you as a player in order to get the most out of the class). This could be anything related to the class fantasy, not just combat skill. It could be the personal progression of your philosophies and ideals as a player as you grow and change throughout the story, which could affect why you identify with that class, how you role-play as your class, the choices you make, and what you believe about the world and how your class fits inside of it. Any kind of gameplay or story experience that your class plays a role in could be an opportunity for personal growth as a player, which could be reflected through the performance/experience of your class within that context. For example, in combat, the class fantasy for tank is being a tank and protecting teammates. Combat skill is a form of player progression that is required to fully experience that class fantasy. The journey a player takes throughout that process of skill mastery is a part of their own experiential storytelling that lives alongside their classes story. Another example is related to the role-play aspect of being a tank. Why should I protect my teammates? What if I want to be a selfish tank who doesn't care about their group? Maybe I just want to betray them and steal from them. Have class story arcs that revolve around ideas like this to facilitate that player expression, and have story lessons that provoke thought about the merit of these player decisions. These are some role-play aspects derived from the class fantasy of protecting others as a tank and thus there is some opportunity for one's own personal ideals as a player to influence that fantasy, which is more opportunity for a player to experience their own unique story around that class fantasy, which is more room for player expression, which is more room for one's own personal story of growing/changing as a player through their class, thus better experiencing that class story. Yes, you can do these specific examples already but its just important to maximize the potential outlets for different types of player expressiveness acrossed the various systems/stories that the class fantasy experience touches on. This means that any system that the class fantasy touches on, there should also be content that is derived from the class fantasy within that system, of which is relevant to player's own journey of growth within that system, in order to better experience their "class story".
C- Shared story of player and character progression/role-play:
Here are some aspects that could be considered to be shared between the player's class story and the character's class story
1. I think it is important to be experiential with the storytelling whenever possible. If there is a theme or idea being explored, then explore it through the gameplay systems. If you want a story moment where the tank needs to choose between protecting himself or his group, then put him in a gameplay situation where he needs to make that split-second decision.
2. I think it would be really cool from both a player progression and character progression standpoint, to have "class dojos" that act as areas of mastery for that class through instruction and challenge. Things like having
A- ancient texts with clues that need to be deciphered and hold tips on combat techniques, or forgotten class skills (both player-skill and character ability oriented)
B- challenges with class relevant rewards. This could be like having different trials that show mastery over your class, with unique skill-checks built in to the challenge to help hone skills or teach both new and advanced combat concepts. Again, this doesn't have to be combat specific, just anything tied to the class fantasy or class story up to that point, it could be riddles that leverage the knowledge/ideas youv'e learned about your class ideology up to that point, or class utility-skill challenges, etc.
It might also be cool if you could choose between different class relevant rewards like new class skills, augments, or unique story insights, etc., depending on your level of mastery over the challenges
C- This could also be something that is a part of a quest chain spread throughout the world (like the gyms and elite four in pokemon games)
D- Maybe some of these trials are even secret, or held by a secret society representative of that class (like a secret bard society, dedicated to carrying ancient bard secrets and deciding who is worthy of that knowledge)
E- This of course, can have both pve and pvp implications as well, such as class mastery tournaments where players of each class can fight each other to see who is best.
3. I really like the idea of your class abilities being reflections of past experiences in the game and reactive to choices you have made. The concept of the bard having sagas that tell a story of a past event, this can be more than just a cool desription of an ability. The sagas could actually be manifestations of past events that took place and granted you access to those new "stories" to perform as sagas. The fire breathing dragin saga could represent an actual dragon that you had to fight in the past, unlocking that ability. I think that aspect of experiential and reactive storytelling within the class designs is pretty cool.
4. Acquired/earned power
Its important to have something to aspire to a symbol for the class
a framing of how that class fits into the world, and how that can change based on player perspective, and character story
I think this framing of expectations and perceptions about your class identity and your identity as a player (and both of your roles in the story) is very important to set up for those story moments that challenge those perceptions and subvert those expectations as change and progression occurs throughout your journey.
These types of things are all a part of the storytelling of your class and you as a player of that class through your progression journey.
3. Storytelling/role-play reinforced through environmental design:
I think the world design itself also plays a role on conveying the story about your personal and class story.
The space can establish "rules of behavior" which can open up opportunities for both
1. role-play options
and
2. narrative beats that hold story lessons that can change the player's perception of their actions.
This is talked about in the "level design identity" section at 14:47 of this video
This could apply to the themes surrounding class storytelling, by providing different opportunities to role-play that class in response to those environmental factors (for example, having an area of civilians with a boulder rolling towards them. The expectation is that civilians are innocent which sets up an opportunity for class role-play and player expression through that environmental design.
Are you as the tank going to be a protector and stop the boulder rolling towards them, or will you let it crush the civilians? What kind of tank will you be and why? With this opportunity for expression, also comes with opportunity for story lessons. How will you challenge the player's decision to do that, and make them think about their actions, or possibly regret their decision? How will you teach them about what it means to be a tank, or if there is a true meaning to be a tank? What story will you tell through experiences like this that provokes thought, philosophy, or challenges ideologies and assumptions that players have about the world they are in? This is all a part of the worldbuilding, the lore, and experiencing the storytelling from both a player and class perspective. Obviously, just as mentioned in the video, the other aspects of the environment could work in concert with those other aspects of storytelling, by supporting those narratives through the actual feelings the environment evokes in the player through color and space, as well as the narrative that is told through the environmental layouts, the setdressing, and the reactivity of those layouts based on player decisions, role-play, and story beats, in order to reinforce the overall storytelling.
4. Storytelling/role-play reinforced through sound design:
I think these storytelling methods could also be reinforced through the use of leitmotif.
Episode 2 in this 3 part series talks about how Final Fantasy 4 used its class system as a storytelling device; reinforced through the use of leitmotif in order to represent story ideas, story progression, and changes in story perspective that both the class and the player experiences.
Conclusion:
A lot of these ideas surrounding storytelling can be integrated into virtually any system that the class interacts with or anything in the game that involves the experience of playing the class, role-playing as your class, or carrying out your class fantasy in some manner. It could be storytelling through traversal systems, combat, dialogue and npc interactions, story beats, progression, tutorialization, etc. etc...
I think this will also organically distinguish different npcs and players of the same class, because each individual would have their own Identity as a class and as a player, their own interpretation of how they fit into the world, their own background and choices, and their own reasons for being where they are and doing what they do, which all contributes to the story being told.
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MissionCreepMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I don't think about this at all. I'm not saying I don't care about the lore at all, I've just never thought about classes being "integrated" into the lore in any MMORPG I've ever played.
Obviously I'd be fine with it, I'm not opposed! I just don't think I care...?
I think when I think of the bard, I think of the Tavern and world travel. If I was to make a quest line it would start in the Tavern. There would be a lot of travel, misadventure, tragedy, betrayal, misunderstandings and I would end up back in the Tavern. Oh and a Dragon, definitely a dragon.
Archetypes - Lore and storytelling to enrich world-building.
Unique Passive Buildings
Theatres - Bards across the land come together to tell new tales of adventures and dangers, miracles and tragedies, peace and conflict. Be wiser, be bolder, come listen to these tales (and you know, get a passive buff yay). Hints of open events from far away opening, impending sieges, nodes rising a level, and other database logs that it would be nice to know about on servers that are too big to know what's going on everywhere (I love that the world is too big to know what's going on everywhere). This is more 'live lore' than historical story telling.
Hospitals - Yeah sure Clerics hang out in temples as part of their full time job, but in their spare time they volunteer to help to sick, aged and weak in hospitals; performing basic surgery and nursing. Think Knights Hospitaller, established by [insert old Cleric/Pope name here]. Visit them to get more 'live lore' based on defeats; lost sieges, failed Node Wars, Guilds at War, monster coin raids - oh the hardship and tragedy (and body counts too if you log that! And of course buffs such as better mitigation cos you know, prevention is better than cure.
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
After the Fighter showcase, we had some complaints about the Fighter being a blood-sucking Vampire and how that breaks immersion.
But, Blood Siphoning for Fighter makes sense to me if it's a combat path Ren'Kai contributed to the development of that Archetype.
I think the primary hurdle with regard to lore is justifying how all of these Skill paths and Archetypes were discovered and forged so quickly after the Portals opened and people returned to Verra and encountered High Magic.
But, yes, it would be nice to see factions among the Races, Religions and Social Orgs who contributed to the development of the Archetypes, Active SKills and Social Orgs.
Create a game loop where the bard completes quests, finds ancient text, or travels with/speaks with others to collect(stories). Each quest is a story and every story has stats that can modify his interactions with NPCs. (I would do this with every main class, but the bard would have the advantage of choosing which "class" he represents based on the story)
Bards can be the only class that can share quests that are unwritten and only in a tavern, where the "tavern owner" ensures the bounty of the quest.
The Bard can collect these stories to help him earn ranks through the "Spellsingers", "bard college", and "Dark Whispers". Each organization has a different requirement of "stories". Eventually Bards learn to use their vocal resonance to break glass/crystal/other items (Just like the Tacoma Narrow Bridge fell to wind resonance). This allows the individual, party, or raids to use different paths or block path in particular places (map advantages).
While rangers have a bestiary screen to give them tips about the natural world.
Bards learn the skill of recall. Repetition, chunking, visualization, mnemonics, and physical movement should be incorporated into Bard gameplay. Bards are given summaries of the monsters they face/places they've been/and make small pictures to help.
Sometimes...tales are mixed and Bards tap into the magic of creation. Who holds the majority of tales in the tavern similar to nodes can changes the stories in the area. This creates slight variations in the enemies players will face or their abilities. This allows for further differential between servers and emergent gameplay. As bards with powerful enough chords and the right story might break a bridge or shift the power towards the "Dark Whispers" changing the normal dragon quest into Shadow Dragons ect...this means different vulnerabilities/strengths ect...
Sometimes Tavern brawls can break out, and an opposing faction can pay off the guards not to interfere in these Bardic takeovers. Of course, Bards aren't the only ones who want to own the taverns. The local thieves' guilds like to use it for contraband. Tavern owners typically join a guild for protection. There are NPC guilds and player guilds who want to own these taverns. Certain quests can set off attempted take overs.
Important Archetype skills should be learned by archieving something like quests or having reputation with a faction.
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Idhalar AlBaieshMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I'd love to see unique interactions with both the NPCs and the environment depending on your archetype.
If you are a mage a group of scholars might approach you or open exclusive dialogue options since you are a fellow student of the arcane arts.
You might also discover a hidden magic item or writing in a dungeon because it pulses with magic power that only the trained can sense.
A Distressed peasant might approach clerics to seek healing for his loved ones or advice from the gods in something otherworldly that they have experienced.
They might even receive an omen or vision of the past from their deity.
While exploring some ruins a bard might recognize a simbol, picture or song sang by a lingering spirit related to an old tale that survived the long years on Sanctum.
While visiting taverns or cities NPCs might talk to them to share the latest news or ask them to compose a song about their adventures.
Summons might speak to their summoner about grave news from their native plane that might affect Vera.
Or share the whispers they hear from their kindred when they are in a zone related to them. For example a fire elemental summoned by a character might hear the words of the elementals summoned by the cultists in the citadel of the Steel Bloom and convey them to the player.
If necromancers can rise dead NPCs they might speak about their lingering attachments, fears and strongest memories.
All those ideas could be storytelling tools to expand the lore or even unlock lore-rich questlines relevant to the different archetypes.
Only in silence the word, Only in dark the light, Only in dying life.
For Bards it would be a nice edition if they, randomly (while riding for example, or resting by a fireplace or at a tavern) started to sing or pull out a lute and tune it.
Preferably something related to the current season/environment or nearby monsters and players, or lack of.
A toggle for playing player selected tunes/melodies/songs, that loops as long as we care would be lovely.
Also, it would be nice if everyone that gets hold of a music instrument could learn to play it, but had to find a Bard to learn songs/tunes.
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NarysMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Some of our community had the following takes:
- Perhaps a reference to a legendary bard
- An npc popping up in random spots during big story questlines to tell more lore surrounding the part of the quest/history of the quest. Perhaps accompanying songs the NPC plays and u could unlock some to play yourself.
- A Volo (bg3) type bard type character that shows up that needs saving.
- Have a epic server stories represented in a song a bard could play.
A big portion of this should be exploring the different ways the archetypes use the Essence to power their abilities. It should be the forefront of world development and telling the story.
I would very much like to see npcs describing in game how the summoner draws the inter-planaer essence steven talked about in a prior stream and especially reminders that Figters use Essence to and how that ties into the High Magic nature of Verra.
I love a good class quest. Show me my character's place in the world by providing a goal that's specific to his archetype. Earning my totems as a Tauren shaman in vanilla WoW was fantastic.
Comments
Something like a quest line for a magical book to unlock selecting mage as secondary. Maybe there is a roaming Bard NPC in a certain biome or two who is a renowned story teller and you follow some quests with him to unlock secondary Bard.
An added point to this, it would be cool to hear about these through breadcrumbs from appropriate npcs. It’s been mentioned in this thread: hubs that are related to archetypes like Ranger Lodges, Cleric Temples, Rogue hideouts (etc.). Maybe an NPC here can give you bread crumbs or hints to finding the way to become that secondary?
I feel as if these types of interactions with typical “menu based systems” would get players traveling and exploring, maybe going to regions far away to learn how to be a secondary “whatever”. This causes emergent gameplay for everyone involved in the journey!
Also I would make those archetypes present in the game world as NPCs in locations which makes sense: temples, hunters lodge, orc war camp, necromancer den, a wondering NPC bard which sings a funny song whilst they walk through a town.
1. Key premise, character vs. player storytelling and role-play:
This video is a great analysis on this topic of what the Mass Effect series taught us about the relationship between both the character (class, in this case) and the player's role in the story, and how you can provide opportunities for role-play and expression that still fits into an overarching narrative that contains philisophical lessons and moral ambiguity.
How can you have a world where every player makes there own unique choices, story, and role-plays in their own unique way, while also using a character and class that has its own background, history, skills, knowledge, way of life, etc.?
I think ideally it is a combination of both having pre-established content that focuses on different themes and role-play opportunities (like uniquely themed class quests), while also giving players the freedom to choose which themes they want to identify and engage with (such as knowingly making a class choice that will determine certain quest chains) and also allowing players the flexibility to role-play in their own way as a player (like quests for the tank being role play options that are themed around protecting the innocent, but players can role plau as a selfish tank who doesnt care about others instead.)
I think that in order to properly role-play as a player, there needs to be different scenarios and challenges that allow for your own personal expression. This means there should be opportunities for role-play for different types of players, which is just a part of having that agency and personal immersive story, which is what alot of the systems in Ashes already provides opportunities for, (like having progression paths for both crafters and adventurer type players, etc.). That means there will be content centered around each experience to allow players to properly role-play that experience, as players choose to engage with it. I think classes and class stories could be the same way in that regard, in that different classes could represent different types of players and have their own unique backgrounds and stories that players can choose to identify with and choose to experience. Maybe different classes have different ideals, personalities, etc., such as bards in Ashes representing charismatic players, and there are quests and stories revolving around and challenging that personality trait to allow players to role-play as a charismatic type of character.
There are a few potential issues with this. People are not one-dimensional, there would need to be a host of different class themes represented in order to resonate with and appeal to different types of players (such as different classes themed as various traits, ideals, etc., in different combinations). There also would need to be a lot of opportunity for expression, change, growth, and just role-play in general for each type of player in order to have the best possible role-play experience and to engage with the story in a more immersive manner (basically players shouldn't be pidgeon-holed into playing through there class story a certain way, the themes should be more like guidelines or tendencies to attract different players to different classes to experience that type of role-play opportunity, or to derail from it if they want to). Different classes should have themes that are more like "tendencies" because not all bards are going to think and behave the same way within a story. I think the way to do this is similar to that in the video analysis I linked, in that your choice to play as a bard nudges you in the direction of certain unique themes, questlines, content, and role-play opportunites that you have to navigate through as you make your own peronal choices as a player. A bard might have questlines that have themes centered around how charismatic you are, but you the player have to make that decision on whether you want to behave that way or act a completely different way, and if you would rather role-play as a courageous protector of the innocent, maybe you would lean more towards the questlines that are available to the Tank archetype for example.
The other potential option is to not have any pre-established "class tendencies" or anything like that, and any personal story themes/questlines can be explored and experienced at any time the player chooses to role-play in that way, regardless of what class choice was already made. The personal stories of different classes would instead revolve around their past experiences, how they got to this point, or just focused on how they got their abilties and skills themselves with no actual story connection to their actual character traits/personalities.
I think either of these approaches might be good ways of marrying the ideas of-
1. having specific stories you want to tell through classes
2. role-playing as a character who exists within the game world
without compromising the ideas of-
3. players forming their own stories
4. players being able to express themselves through their own role-play decisions
I think this overall idea of allowing for emergent choices within various branching paths of curated content might be kind of similar to the design approach you are taking already with the overall story arc system, but appplied on a smaller scale with individual class quests and role-play options.
2. Storytelling through both character and player progression/role-play:
what is the class story experience revolving around both your character's in-game growth and your own personal story and growth as an mmo player?
A- Class specific progression/role-play story:
- what is the history and background lore of the class? How and why did the class get to that point before the player takes control?
- The progression of the class itself within the game world (tutorialization, character skill growth, ideology/personality/goals, etc.) all as part of the character's storytelling. Why is the class needing to learn stuff? Why and how are they acquiring new skills and strength? Why does the class behave the way they do or have the tendencies they have? Who are the people in Verra who are teaching things to that class, and why does that class want to be influenced by those people in particular?
- who in Verra are the natural enemies and friends of that class and why, and how could that change?
- what does it mean to be a master of the class within Verra?
- what makes the knowledge and skill of your class unique?
- what are the ideological tendencies of that class, why, and how are those ideals either challenged or reinforced throughout the story?
- how do other npcs interact with that class and why?
B- Player specific progression/role-play story:
The story of your class should foster a story that is unique to the player behind the class, of which is reflective of their own personal choices, role-play, and growth/change as a player, as they seek to master the class and to experience the class fantasy. This is a part of experiential storytelling, in that the class related systems should immerse and empower the player to feel like they are a part of the class story, and that they themselves are on a journey of growth and progress as a player of the class.
This could involve a host of various things such as
- improving your own personal performance of the class to strive toward mastering the class fantasy. (Your class progresses and grows stronger in-game but so do you as a player in order to get the most out of the class). This could be anything related to the class fantasy, not just combat skill. It could be the personal progression of your philosophies and ideals as a player as you grow and change throughout the story, which could affect why you identify with that class, how you role-play as your class, the choices you make, and what you believe about the world and how your class fits inside of it. Any kind of gameplay or story experience that your class plays a role in could be an opportunity for personal growth as a player, which could be reflected through the performance/experience of your class within that context. For example, in combat, the class fantasy for tank is being a tank and protecting teammates. Combat skill is a form of player progression that is required to fully experience that class fantasy. The journey a player takes throughout that process of skill mastery is a part of their own experiential storytelling that lives alongside their classes story. Another example is related to the role-play aspect of being a tank. Why should I protect my teammates? What if I want to be a selfish tank who doesn't care about their group? Maybe I just want to betray them and steal from them. Have class story arcs that revolve around ideas like this to facilitate that player expression, and have story lessons that provoke thought about the merit of these player decisions. These are some role-play aspects derived from the class fantasy of protecting others as a tank and thus there is some opportunity for one's own personal ideals as a player to influence that fantasy, which is more opportunity for a player to experience their own unique story around that class fantasy, which is more room for player expression, which is more room for one's own personal story of growing/changing as a player through their class, thus better experiencing that class story. Yes, you can do these specific examples already but its just important to maximize the potential outlets for different types of player expressiveness acrossed the various systems/stories that the class fantasy experience touches on. This means that any system that the class fantasy touches on, there should also be content that is derived from the class fantasy within that system, of which is relevant to player's own journey of growth within that system, in order to better experience their "class story".
C- Shared story of player and character progression/role-play:
1. I think it is important to be experiential with the storytelling whenever possible. If there is a theme or idea being explored, then explore it through the gameplay systems. If you want a story moment where the tank needs to choose between protecting himself or his group, then put him in a gameplay situation where he needs to make that split-second decision.
2. I think it would be really cool from both a player progression and character progression standpoint, to have "class dojos" that act as areas of mastery for that class through instruction and challenge. Things like having
A- ancient texts with clues that need to be deciphered and hold tips on combat techniques, or forgotten class skills (both player-skill and character ability oriented)
B- challenges with class relevant rewards. This could be like having different trials that show mastery over your class, with unique skill-checks built in to the challenge to help hone skills or teach both new and advanced combat concepts. Again, this doesn't have to be combat specific, just anything tied to the class fantasy or class story up to that point, it could be riddles that leverage the knowledge/ideas youv'e learned about your class ideology up to that point, or class utility-skill challenges, etc.
It might also be cool if you could choose between different class relevant rewards like new class skills, augments, or unique story insights, etc., depending on your level of mastery over the challenges
C- This could also be something that is a part of a quest chain spread throughout the world (like the gyms and elite four in pokemon games)
D- Maybe some of these trials are even secret, or held by a secret society representative of that class (like a secret bard society, dedicated to carrying ancient bard secrets and deciding who is worthy of that knowledge)
E- This of course, can have both pve and pvp implications as well, such as class mastery tournaments where players of each class can fight each other to see who is best.
3. I really like the idea of your class abilities being reflections of past experiences in the game and reactive to choices you have made. The concept of the bard having sagas that tell a story of a past event, this can be more than just a cool desription of an ability. The sagas could actually be manifestations of past events that took place and granted you access to those new "stories" to perform as sagas. The fire breathing dragin saga could represent an actual dragon that you had to fight in the past, unlocking that ability. I think that aspect of experiential and reactive storytelling within the class designs is pretty cool.
4. Acquired/earned power
Its important to have something to aspire to a symbol for the class
a framing of how that class fits into the world, and how that can change based on player perspective, and character story
I think this framing of expectations and perceptions about your class identity and your identity as a player (and both of your roles in the story) is very important to set up for those story moments that challenge those perceptions and subvert those expectations as change and progression occurs throughout your journey.
These types of things are all a part of the storytelling of your class and you as a player of that class through your progression journey.
3. Storytelling/role-play reinforced through environmental design:
The space can establish "rules of behavior" which can open up opportunities for both
1. role-play options
and
2. narrative beats that hold story lessons that can change the player's perception of their actions.
This is talked about in the "level design identity" section at 14:47 of this video
This could apply to the themes surrounding class storytelling, by providing different opportunities to role-play that class in response to those environmental factors (for example, having an area of civilians with a boulder rolling towards them. The expectation is that civilians are innocent which sets up an opportunity for class role-play and player expression through that environmental design.
Are you as the tank going to be a protector and stop the boulder rolling towards them, or will you let it crush the civilians? What kind of tank will you be and why? With this opportunity for expression, also comes with opportunity for story lessons. How will you challenge the player's decision to do that, and make them think about their actions, or possibly regret their decision? How will you teach them about what it means to be a tank, or if there is a true meaning to be a tank? What story will you tell through experiences like this that provokes thought, philosophy, or challenges ideologies and assumptions that players have about the world they are in? This is all a part of the worldbuilding, the lore, and experiencing the storytelling from both a player and class perspective. Obviously, just as mentioned in the video, the other aspects of the environment could work in concert with those other aspects of storytelling, by supporting those narratives through the actual feelings the environment evokes in the player through color and space, as well as the narrative that is told through the environmental layouts, the setdressing, and the reactivity of those layouts based on player decisions, role-play, and story beats, in order to reinforce the overall storytelling.
4. Storytelling/role-play reinforced through sound design:
Episode 2 in this 3 part series talks about how Final Fantasy 4 used its class system as a storytelling device; reinforced through the use of leitmotif in order to represent story ideas, story progression, and changes in story perspective that both the class and the player experiences.
Conclusion:
A lot of these ideas surrounding storytelling can be integrated into virtually any system that the class interacts with or anything in the game that involves the experience of playing the class, role-playing as your class, or carrying out your class fantasy in some manner. It could be storytelling through traversal systems, combat, dialogue and npc interactions, story beats, progression, tutorialization, etc. etc...
I think this will also organically distinguish different npcs and players of the same class, because each individual would have their own Identity as a class and as a player, their own interpretation of how they fit into the world, their own background and choices, and their own reasons for being where they are and doing what they do, which all contributes to the story being told.
Obviously I'd be fine with it, I'm not opposed! I just don't think I care...?
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But, Blood Siphoning for Fighter makes sense to me if it's a combat path Ren'Kai contributed to the development of that Archetype.
I think the primary hurdle with regard to lore is justifying how all of these Skill paths and Archetypes were discovered and forged so quickly after the Portals opened and people returned to Verra and encountered High Magic.
But, yes, it would be nice to see factions among the Races, Religions and Social Orgs who contributed to the development of the Archetypes, Active SKills and Social Orgs.
Themes
Travel (Storytelling/tales/collection)
Sound (Influence)
Knowledge (history)
Create a game loop where the bard completes quests, finds ancient text, or travels with/speaks with others to collect(stories). Each quest is a story and every story has stats that can modify his interactions with NPCs. (I would do this with every main class, but the bard would have the advantage of choosing which "class" he represents based on the story)
Bards can be the only class that can share quests that are unwritten and only in a tavern, where the "tavern owner" ensures the bounty of the quest.
The Bard can collect these stories to help him earn ranks through the "Spellsingers", "bard college", and "Dark Whispers". Each organization has a different requirement of "stories". Eventually Bards learn to use their vocal resonance to break glass/crystal/other items (Just like the Tacoma Narrow Bridge fell to wind resonance). This allows the individual, party, or raids to use different paths or block path in particular places (map advantages).
While rangers have a bestiary screen to give them tips about the natural world.
Bards learn the skill of recall. Repetition, chunking, visualization, mnemonics, and physical movement should be incorporated into Bard gameplay. Bards are given summaries of the monsters they face/places they've been/and make small pictures to help.
Sometimes...tales are mixed and Bards tap into the magic of creation. Who holds the majority of tales in the tavern similar to nodes can changes the stories in the area. This creates slight variations in the enemies players will face or their abilities. This allows for further differential between servers and emergent gameplay. As bards with powerful enough chords and the right story might break a bridge or shift the power towards the "Dark Whispers" changing the normal dragon quest into Shadow Dragons ect...this means different vulnerabilities/strengths ect...
Sometimes Tavern brawls can break out, and an opposing faction can pay off the guards not to interfere in these Bardic takeovers. Of course, Bards aren't the only ones who want to own the taverns. The local thieves' guilds like to use it for contraband. Tavern owners typically join a guild for protection. There are NPC guilds and player guilds who want to own these taverns. Certain quests can set off attempted take overs.
If you are a mage a group of scholars might approach you or open exclusive dialogue options since you are a fellow student of the arcane arts.
You might also discover a hidden magic item or writing in a dungeon because it pulses with magic power that only the trained can sense.
A Distressed peasant might approach clerics to seek healing for his loved ones or advice from the gods in something otherworldly that they have experienced.
They might even receive an omen or vision of the past from their deity.
While exploring some ruins a bard might recognize a simbol, picture or song sang by a lingering spirit related to an old tale that survived the long years on Sanctum.
While visiting taverns or cities NPCs might talk to them to share the latest news or ask them to compose a song about their adventures.
Summons might speak to their summoner about grave news from their native plane that might affect Vera.
Or share the whispers they hear from their kindred when they are in a zone related to them. For example a fire elemental summoned by a character might hear the words of the elementals summoned by the cultists in the citadel of the Steel Bloom and convey them to the player.
If necromancers can rise dead NPCs they might speak about their lingering attachments, fears and strongest memories.
All those ideas could be storytelling tools to expand the lore or even unlock lore-rich questlines relevant to the different archetypes.
Preferably something related to the current season/environment or nearby monsters and players, or lack of.
A toggle for playing player selected tunes/melodies/songs, that loops as long as we care would be lovely.
Also, it would be nice if everyone that gets hold of a music instrument could learn to play it, but had to find a Bard to learn songs/tunes.
- Perhaps a reference to a legendary bard
- An npc popping up in random spots during big story questlines to tell more lore surrounding the part of the quest/history of the quest. Perhaps accompanying songs the NPC plays and u could unlock some to play yourself.
- A Volo (bg3) type bard type character that shows up that needs saving.
- Have a epic server stories represented in a song a bard could play.
I would very much like to see npcs describing in game how the summoner draws the inter-planaer essence steven talked about in a prior stream and especially reminders that Figters use Essence to and how that ties into the High Magic nature of Verra.
They'll note the beginning of a tale that help a class. Help find ways to a particular path forward.
Curious a concept of "mood" music. For example after death a boost to damage. However It could incure corruption or something like.