Resurrection during combat
StewBad
Member
So during the Dev stream, while the raid was fighting the dragon. Steven (and others) were resurrecting people who had died. I was wondering what everyone feels about resurrecting people mid fight? I know Steven had GM powers on, which made it appear to be much easier to do than it actually is, but i'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on it anyways.
My thought is that if you're going to allow people to be resurrected during combat, there are a couple of things to consider:
1. The cooldown of the resurrect ability. Should there be one? Should you be able to chain cast your rez if you have it?
2. Diminishing returns - Should there be a defined period of time that must elapse before you can accept another rez? (i.e. you must wait 30 seconds to be rezzed again after receiving a rez, with subsequent rezzes requiring more and more time.)
What are your thoughts?
My thought is that if you're going to allow people to be resurrected during combat, there are a couple of things to consider:
1. The cooldown of the resurrect ability. Should there be one? Should you be able to chain cast your rez if you have it?
2. Diminishing returns - Should there be a defined period of time that must elapse before you can accept another rez? (i.e. you must wait 30 seconds to be rezzed again after receiving a rez, with subsequent rezzes requiring more and more time.)
What are your thoughts?
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Comments
Or to cost like 70% of max mana.
For PvE though, make it a risk for a healer to need to make a tactical decision on when to attempt it during combat but punishing someone to that extent that made potentially a single mistake isn't good design in my opinion and will lead to a lot of frustration for a lot of players that aren't hardocre players.
Long cast, high cost, long cooldown
I am fine with it being able to done in combat but give it the intensive cost above. Making it a very high risk action.
Drain healers MP
Stuck in place healer, need to protect it
Can only do a few times per combat because of cooldown
Generally not practical in pvp for reasons above, but not impossible
as for Pvp it might not be so bad since it a long cast and it obvious when somone being rezzed with the tree animation so it fairly easily interuppted and if they do get it off they can be 1 tapped so have to wait and see in regard to pvp
Also the rezzed players comes back with like 10% hp and without mana, that means that even rezzed theyre still useless.
So I think it's a pretty dope solution considering when you die you have to walk back a lot!
Better bring your A-Game then.
I can s~ooo see Guilds charge the Dragon with like 20 to 40 People,
while 50 People at every single Cardinal Point protect their fellow Guildmembers or fellow Allies from another Guild from every possible, rivalling Group that might want to come and snatch the Boss away.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
Scrolls should have an even longer cast time and should be crafted at a fairly high cost.
Cleric might even get a faster casting Rez through augment or gear or whatever. If so, hopefully not too too quickly. ESO screwed their PvP balance by putting in sets and passives that allowed Templars to rez in 2 seconds, and they could start the channel in stealth
The long interruptable channel and high mana cost is a large enough downside for PvP. If you can control the area for 8-10 seconds you should be able to rez.
Class-based resurrection abilities allow greater recovery of experience debt than resurrection scrolls.[1][2]
I would take a page out of Guild Wars. When you died, you got a 15% penalty to your HP and Energy/Mana, to a maximum of 60%, that you could work off by killing enemies and completing objectives. Or reset by going back to town.
Which isn't altogether that different from how Ashes is doing it, san the exact numbers.
You could shrug off 15% easy enough, 30% and now your hurting, 45% to 60% and you've entered a death spiral that is damn hard to recover from.
So I would say 10-15% for a PvE death, and a 20-25% for a PvP death.
Possibly you could have the cool down and maybe the cost be dependent on the level of death penalty of the target, increasing by the percentage of death penalty they have. Making it so that you just cannot revive your way out of a death spiral. Eventually you not even going to have enough max mana to cast the spell.
I agree with this, personally.
Mass rez on a 30 minute cd, rez scroll on a 60 minute cd, and single target on a 5 minute cd. Give all of them a 10 second cast time, and I don't really consider the mana use to be of significance (if you have 10 seconds to rez someone, you can probably get your mana back fairly easily).
To me, rather than the mass rez being group only though, I'd like to see it being 8 players in your own raid, within a given range. However, people bought up with this specific ability should find themselves at lower HP/mana than if they were bought up by a single target rez.
Let's not forget that, because of the lack of instant travel, dying in this game can be severely punishing, especially timewise. And any decent group can focus fire on a single target to burst it down quickly, regardless of who wins the overall battle. You don't want that specific target to spend the rest of the fight on the ground staring at the screen. That would breed resentment rather quickly, so having a "second chance" sort of solution is needed.
Personally, I'm against making a resurrection skill hard to pull off (long cast time or ridiculous mana pool spent), but I definitely agree with the need for a longer cooldown, and perhaps a temporary stats penalty for the resurrected target. It should feel like you're "burning" this really strong ability in order to rally more troops.
No its a pvp game with pve excuses to gank each other. Casual players already pushing their impossible balancing.
Agree with this. I would also add I'd want the res to be a channel which can be interrupted (same goes for all channelled abilities, they need to be able to be interrupted).
so in 40 man raid, if you have 5 clerics (1 for every 8 players). You get: 40 res from scrolls + 40 res from the 5 clerics mass resurrect + 5 resurrects every 5 mins.
So you want to tell me 90-100 resurrects in 1 fight is acceptable for 40 players? WOW, just WOW.
I am in the complete opposite stance. Combat resurrect should NOT EXIST. Or if it exist should be only single target resurrect with 30 min cd at least. WIth only clerics having resurrect spell (no scrolls for res at all). And also the resurrect should put debuff that prevents the same target from being resurrected again for the next 30 min.
I'm not sure why you would, as if you are needing that many, clearly you are doing something wrong.
Having access to that amount of resurrection capacity doesn't mean you want to use it all, nor that you should use it all. If you use all of those resurrections because you needed to use them all, you are still going to fail at killing the encounter - so you are only wasting your own time and resources by doing so.
In this situation, it doesn't even matter if this is PvE or PvP, if you use that amount of resurrection resources, you've lost. More resurrection resources used just means you lost even more.
From a PvP perspective, thrashing a rival guild and watching them resurrect mid fight in order to attempt to keep things going - but thrashing them anyway is just one of lifes little joys.
In the Firebrand showcase. We saw more than 40 resurrects. and in the end they managed to kill it. And without those resurrects they would have failed. So i disagree.
If a raid leader suggested that as a method to kill a boss, that raid leader would be looking for a new raid.
I thought players wanted harder PVE content. If you have 100 potential resurrects in 1 fight. Even the hardest bosses will be trivial if you are willing to invest into killing them.
If you have infinate resurrects, a hard encounter is still hard. If you are taking the fight on the wrong way, you will not kill it.
Ever.
If you are taking it on the right way, you probably don't need any ressurects at all.
Having more resurrect capacity means those that have no clue (poke poke) simply end up costing their raid/guild more because they don't know when to call the pull and try something different. Again, this applies as much to PvP as it does PvE.
What you are talking about will apply if the boss has some kind of Instant Wipe mechanics. And this wont be the case with AOC since its open world.
And you are talking here some complete noobies, And even they will be able to kill a hard boss.
For a group that is doing the highest mythic dungeons in WOW or hardest raids in other games,
Even if AOC create hard enough boss, with infinite resurrects the boss will be still trivial
STEVEN is talking that only like 10% of the population will be able to clear the hardest contents. And what you are talking is like: Everyone can clear the hardest content, just invest some more in ingame gold beforehand.