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📝 Dev Discussion #70 - Music in MMORPGs đŸŽ¶

2

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  • iznebulaiznebula Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited December 2024
    Instantly what comes to mind with iconic and nostalgic music is 2004 Runescape music. This entire playlist is just a masterpiece - https://www.youtube.com/embed/videoseries?list=PLADC838822026616E If you all are able to give me the sense of wonder that you got from these songs you have succeeded. Each of them fit to their biome or to the quests they originate from. You hear these songs and immediately remember what part of Gielinor you are in almost immediately. So to me music and ambience are essential, it was that pulls me into the world, what allows me to feel that I am part of the world. A game that is lackluster in this department, not matter how good the rest of it is, will immediately lose me. So it is crucial Ashes of Creation doesn't fail with it's music and ambience.
  • -T0Mb--T0Mb- Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 2024
    For me music is a big thing when playing video games. With good music the game experience can be deepened, making good gaming memories that can be remembered for lifetime.

    I have played some MMORPGs but I have to say that those games have good songs but they are not my favorites what I have heard in video games. My favorite game music comes from Heroes of Might and Magic game series and they are composed by Paul Romero. Especially when I play Heroes of Might and Magic 3 or 4 and hear those games' songs I feel that I'm on an epic adventure.

    Here are some of my favorites from those games:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVeH-WSIOa4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-gnjMemqdE
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i44VEJpNKg
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkDXNSWJLuo
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3WYrXxCXZU
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7bEWgt2EKo
  • Ludullu wrote: »
    Absolute unparalleled peak
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62Nl7CmdwUU
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akd-3VcxhVI
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdSwHhd_VeA

    Music is very important, especially if you can tie it to specific locations/events/encounters.

    Definitivamente https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62Nl7CmdwUU , as musicas de Lineage 2 sempre me emocionaram e ja passei horas aproveitando a musica clima de Dion
  • Beck AltarrBeck Altarr Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited December 2024
    Music should always fit the moment. Most of the posts here cover music in general very well so I will add this.

    With the importance of community, player interaction, players being able to create their own social hubs and there being social hubs in the game such as taverns and the like. Not only should each race and culture have their own music theme, I think it would be novel to have roving bands of Bards that criss cross the areas and entertain within these establishments and players could also hire them to appear in their taverns as well, much like how WoW had L70ETC appear and play a song in different locations and times.

    These could also be means of conveying additional lore, news of other areas, such as when a node somewhere becomes a metropolis. A song could be sung about that.

    This is where you could also have the community submit their works to be included in these play lists via contests or other means. Adding more interaction between the game and players.

    This is basically what we did with https://ktamradio.com in Defiance. We were often credited with expanding on the weaker story lines or filling in the blanks of entire story lines in the game or distilling information in a way that was more consumable for listeners who maybe didn't find all the hidden recorders or missed something in a side quest or off hand NPC comment.

    Obviously the NPC Bard bands wouldn't show up or be available until at least the town stage and players could tip them and even possibly get a shout out. With A.I. advancing as quickly as it is, by the time AoC is released you could have a A.I. back end that can create original songs on the fly naming Players, clans and events making for a far more immersive feeling game.
    Alpha/Beta Tester of Many Games - Station Manger of K-TAM Radio an AoC & Gamer themed online Radio.
    Love a good story and lore.
    Twitch Streamer
  • BedkowBedkow Member, Alpha Two
    That's gonna be a niche one, but I loved the "Enter the east" song from a MMORPG called Metin2. I think it's just pure nostalgia at this point, tickling my monkey brain but when I listen to it I feel like I'm... home. Even though the game was absolute P2W Korean garbage.
    Music carries emotion and can enhance any experience and elevate desired emotions if chosen correctly - see any Jaws movies etc. I feel like an ambient game soundtrack should be easy on the ears yet have a distinct melody so years later it can be recognized by players and envoke all the memories from the game. Also different situations, like combat, should have different music, but the most important one is the idle/ambient node music as we will be listening to it during artisanship and social interactions.Finally, I'm sure you guys will cook some great music but I expect to turn off ingame music after couple hundred hours, when I will have heard everything a billion times, and substitute it with my own music and podcasts.
  • JSpenceGlassJSpenceGlass Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    /Air Guitar .... please 🙏 for MMORPG Music Videos
  • judasalivejudasalive Member, Alpha Two
    SongRune wrote: »
    Vaknar wrote: »
    Dev Discussion - Music in MMORPGs
    What are your favorite songs in MMORPGs and why? How do they make you feel? How important are music and ambiance to you, and what examples from your favorite games demonstrate this best?

    Music is incredibly important, and is something that can significantly raise (or lower) the quality of a game's experience.

    Music binds memory and emotion. It provides both the impetus and emotional focus to help you engage with whatever it is that you are doing. Good music will also almost automatically pull you into the feeling of the place and situation that you are in.

    !! totally agree on that !!

    the role of music is best shown in the movie "Once Upon a Time in the West" - soundtrack from Ennio Morricone

    - every character has its own piece of music (you can imagine with character enters the scene only by hearing the melody)
    GC | Joe
    AoC Chars: Hammil (Cleric) | Anthara (Ranger)
    Server: Lotharia (EU)
  • DolyemDolyem Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited December 2024
    I will post several types of music, not just MMORPGs.


    Sea Content NEEDS sea shanties! This alone could make some of the most memorable moments in any game. Quality sea shanties that make a player want to sing along will push this game over the edge.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6OI2-p-_AE

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOfC1PEKt1U



    War chants are great alone or to punctuate music in game, they get into the listeners head if they are powerful or menacing enough. This can be to motivate the listener, or to strike a sort of unease

    https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx6EsU_wQlCrJMKGuc2cqfWm2PxuRbYNpH?si=retuhANIvTq_6akD

    https://youtu.be/obPKf4zw-2U?si=8ZUB3fRQLf1NuXwp


    Grandeur and Epicness where applicable. Massive battles or cinematic scenes, give music that has real weight to the sound equal to the experience. Weighty drums and booming orchestras, horns.

    https://youtu.be/DhXhCz1dKAQ?si=clhARgj8x6ihjRp7

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOA1wBw_Jt4

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HInmEcbFyF0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bezVGJXBe8E

    https://youtu.be/viM0-3PXef0?si=qMsgHi0AzkYon22l

    I vividly remember the first time I walked into Stormwind in WoW, and being blown away by this music as I approached the bridge. It definitely encouraged me to march on and explore the city.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYidb1LvMs8


    Lyrics are important and not very utilized in games in general. Tavern songs and epics telling stories of the lore can be a big boost to a games experience

    https://youtu.be/2bSk-8C76dc?si=12L6yhxlTrJQVyGd

    https://youtu.be/2-lGevvO2vw?si=1TGf1AiaAqpyKnzf

    https://youtu.be/zwp8UxIY_iM?si=nOrYPRLJ9nPkqMYz


    Also these guys provide a great example of taking lore and music made for fantasy novels or games and bringing them to life.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxfoa23skHg&list=RDEMAcUSD7pGRdKq0WZlqHWfiw&start_radio=1



    Just a classic to show how to punctuate maintaining a feel of war. The music isn't even scifi but it provides a perfect ambience for war, struggle, and pushing on.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S5I0_hjS3c



    Ambient music. The Witcher did it the best for fantasy imo

    https://youtu.be/Q9brSpekRn4?si=6Hc1xE3dpZojqcoF

    https://youtu.be/l-1xO-R_JpA?si=3Z30AMp0MF5ZZNu7

    https://youtu.be/IyOAoj_Qzjc?si=Qj8mEYhBN97MrFMf

    Skyrim did well too

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--RU438cUM0&list=PL0jA7A1NCrPjQXH6g94mvQirtiJifuHUs&index=1

    Edit: Almost forgot this legendary track

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnMR6SOBa9k


    Combat

    https://youtu.be/AuEKUtxhP08?si=-WytfyB7mqnBwtC9

    https://youtu.be/Rk5oSZ1NrcQ?si=hfynZBeXNu3ey_Mz

    https://youtu.be/ZNdQ3y9AjLo?si=1_Dj4dXuDMgLnxCZ

    https://youtu.be/vF39rBGDNWk?si=AuVqeXOWvF_5dAH_



    For fear inducing music, look no further than the dead space OST and just their sound design in general

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irnSaMbsb4w&list=PL7F72E09D4C28FECD&index=1



    Hope this helps. Enjoy the tunes devs!
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • kadimirkadimir Member, Alpha Two
    So there are two main schools of thought on the subject of game music.

    1.) context / ambience / vibe
    2.) thematic / world building

    As a hobbyist composer myself - I will ALWAYS prefer thematic music. Motivic works in film/games absolutely have a place, however; They aren't for every project. Thematic material tends to work better when there is a clear story/characters involved - not so much for sandbox.

    While Diablo II has a few prevalent themes, the build is more texture / mood building.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5PZIw8H71k&ab_channel=Myth

    And due to the amount of grinding involved, being careful about how abrasive the music is when you know a player is going to be spending a lot of time doing the same thing. it's like working retail and the same song that's energy level made sense when you were in the mood for it doesn't quite work 7 hours into the shift.

    Minecraft was quite sparse and plenty of space left - something you can handle for hours of mindlessly digging away.

    Skyrim' also isn't my favorite game, or favorite soundtrack - but this more blurry ambience heavy approach is probably something much better suited for a game like AoC.

    Most of the music I think would be good for this game is largely forgettable.... and that's a good thing. it's there to be in the background and support the task or environment - not to grab you and make you emotionally invested in something specific.


    as for soundtracks I actually listen to the most? Mostly the opposite - very defined themes that build with characters.

    Wildstar; Jeff Kurteknacker absolutely got let down by the publishers here. Good game, poorly managed - but his music had no business being that good. It's criminal how much amazing music is entombed forever with a game that will never exist again.

    Diablo II Lord of Destruction ; Czech radio symphony, this is like listening to a more modern Dvorak/Bruckner/Tchaikovskey/Wagner/Holst pastiche on a cold, dark, gritty world besieged.

    World of Warcraft : Shadowlands ; not my favorite expansion, but the soundtrack was absolutely killer, and they did an excellent job of really creating completely different sonic signatures for each faction involved.

    Vintage Story; an odd one, but since it's somewhat retro(not quite chiptunes though) it's focus is on arrangement with limited parts -very much along the lines of classic console games(due to similiar limitations?) to a lesser degree minecraft.

    PvP focused: TERA / Wildstar / Aion
    PvE focused: WoW / FFXIV / Lineage II
    Sandbox: Ultima Online / Darkfall / Mortal Online
    Big Influence: SNES Fighting games / Starcraft / Diablo II / Smite
  • VaknarVaknar Member, Staff
    edited December 2024

    Grizzly Hills is a crowd favorite from the WoTLK era. You've got ambient wind blowing through the conifers, the occasional birdsong, and this heartwarming composition of somewhat rugged strings contrasted by the somber, wispy winds and reeds. It's a beautiful, pristine, mountainous territory dotted with rugged, yet cozy outposts resembling the Northern American frontier, and the composition just hits every single one of those character notes. There's a balance of bright, warm, snappy, somewhat whimsical sections, and cool, majestic, somber, and imposing structures. It's beautiful.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWTSK5waNs8

    Lots of great answers in this thread but this one will always be the GOAT for me 🙌
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  • Thorough wrote: »
    Is Bear McCreary still on board for this game?

    I was wondering that. Given how blatantly obvious the answers were always going to be (Erm yes, good music is important...), made me wonder if he's pulled out or just put up his prices or something, and now they're wondering how cheap they can go! :D

    We're still in the *very* early stages of music development, but we have some awesome work being done by some remarkable composers ;)
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  • FreyaFreya Member, Alpha Two
    Music is one of the most important elements in any game and often underestimated, a lot of games think having generic strings is enough but the reality is music elevates good games into amazing games that etch themselves into your brain while a bad soundtrack can drag a good game into bad as it will fail to capture emotions.

    My favourite mmorpg in that regard is ff14 , almost the entire soundtrack is great with only some exceptions. the application of leitmotif and a unique mix of genres is what elevates that game by so so much, it has everything it has the bombastic, the epic, the feels the ambient theyre songs that stand on their own and make me want to listen to it. The composer needs to have liberty to express themselves and bring their passion out.

    https://youtu.be/_YKHKBgfQf0?si=9eL1j5UPL8dWdS6J this is one of my favourite ambient tracks, there is so much information in it, it sets the tone of where you are at in your journey at this point by baking in the dragon song leitmotif , and setting a tone that is reflective of the cold dead tundra , it is gentle and calm as this is an entirely new journey, its the first zone you go to, it is melancholic for there used to be life in these parts a society that thrived that has been quietened.

    biomes,areas,places and events should all be seen as characters as of themselves, and music is how they talk so a rich mix of styles and instruments is important

  • FlexlandFlexland Member, Alpha Two
    Thematic music done with real instruments and real musicians is absolutely next level compared to the drone of a generated instrument. but that being said i am more likely to either be in a chat or listening to a podcast.
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    Vaknar wrote: »
    Thorough wrote: »
    Is Bear McCreary still on board for this game?

    I was wondering that. Given how blatantly obvious the answers were always going to be (Erm yes, good music is important...), made me wonder if he's pulled out or just put up his prices or something, and now they're wondering how cheap they can go! :D

    We're still in the *very* early stages of music development, but we have some awesome work being done by some remarkable composers ;)

    Very exciting! Will be the icing on the cake. Ashes already looks stunning, but now it'll sound stunning too! :)
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • MishikalMishikal Member, Alpha Two
    I'm surprised no one has mentioned archeage, but the ability there to create your *own* music, and then play songs solo or together with multiple people and instruments, made an entire community of artists. Would love to see something similar here.

  • elliot619elliot619 Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 2024
    The use of different music types and moods for different zones, as they each serve a specific purpose at specific times, as such the music.

    1.) To Arms:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgBZ_X2_h9A
    2.) EQ Grandeur:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKj36GJj_i8
    3.) Soundtrack Variants (i.e. WoW tavern music variations for both alliance and horde and Booty Bay/Dalaran special factional locations (Geolocation Significance):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p8jLMz0lu8&t=278s
    4.) Low-Poly Oldschool Runescape Homage To Be Placed At Communal Fishing Hole in Nodes:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w39uCy5YDnY
    -Other Mood-Altering Non-MMORPG OST's worth recognition-

    1.) The quintessential upper (out of pure respect):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-T6lEYJHm8
    2.) The quintessential downer. The player needs a skybox and soundtrack that constantly fluxes mood vibage:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqkQRgGdAPo
    3.) Myst (1993) bootup- even from .exe you feel a sense of danger, mystery, and excitement. The player should feel compelled to quest and thereby fight for what they believe in:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyyXpJqVgAw
    Conclusion:

    I suggest implementing an original game soundtrack or at least some steady themes ASAP, in alpha if possible. For example, the original Harry Potter theme was written by John Williams in at least 6 different styles. These variations adapted the melody to fit the desired mood and context of different scenes. The celesta (a keyboard instrument that produces a bell-like sound) is prominently featured in many versions, as it captures the magical and ethereal quality of the theme.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXQX7XTw5LI
    As such with "Hediwg's Theme" by John Williams and its corresponding variants, AoC's musical theme(s)/OST's can adapt and evolve (be improved in quality and even remastered) as the game and community evolves with it.
    Mishikal wrote: »
    I'm surprised no one has mentioned archeage, but the ability there to create your *own* music, and then play songs solo or together with multiple people and instruments, made an entire community of artists. Would love to see something similar here.
    This would be interesting as a Sea of Thieves musical aggregation mechanic would be extremely immersive in an MMORPG.
  • Gonna go against the flow here, as I haven't seen any mention of this yet, and well, all the OG music from Warcraft and such was mentioned...

    >:) METAL MUSIC >:) I understand that it isn't exactly immersive for medieval/fantasy roleplay, at least not for the serious parts of the gameplay, game menu for example and such... BUT, there's just something so incredibly fun and infectious, that I would be quite happy if we could find a spot for it <3

    WIND ROSE:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4azillbpqU

    Unleash the Archers:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqUPGa15Oto

    Gloryhammer:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKlVYJTSzuU

    And well, then there's also entire genre of folk/nordic metal, made with only flutes and such, if shredding guitars a little too much...
  • PossumPossum Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    The zone music for Grizzly Hills and Howling Fjord, in World of Warcraft, did an amazing job of evoking the spirit of the zone as you played. Music plays an integral role in setting the scene for the adventure. If done well, it creates an experience players carry with them for years.

    https://youtu.be/mpyInx0ldfo?si=RXC8ONfc630N2ObF&t=12

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=85JLNFc4eT4

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  • NeurotoxinNeurotoxin Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I like leitmotifs and layers of variants and overlap. Lots and lots of them. The season, the region, the time of day, the race and archetype you're playing and partied with, current activity type, caravan-specific stuff, on land vs in water, walking vs mounted, these all provide more opportunities to add depth and richness.

    Music-wise I'd say classic and modern cinematic RPG music generally works to set the mood and tone, keep the player interested and engaged, and not get annoying really fast since you'll be hearing this stuff for hundreds of hours.

    And have multiple tunes for each area, not just one. That really helps to break up the monotony.

    I'm kinda asking for a lot here, huh? Well you asked what I wanna hear...
  • OtrOtr Member, Alpha Two
    Vaknar wrote: »
    How important are music and ambiance to you? How do they make you feel?
    Very important. I don't just play the game. I live in the world of the mmo. I am the character. The music is not just entertaining as an attachment to the game but part of the world, matching with the lore of the region.
    For this reason it should not play continuously, should not be monotonous. In open world while I explore should not feel like tavern music. It should "tell" the story of the area and should not change to combat music when I am in combat.
    https://store.steampowered.com/app/468550/Kenshi_Original_Soundtrack/
    ("is this ambient approach and "non-player interactivity" of the music
    that reinforces Kenshi's indifferent tone." <-- by "indifferent" they mean not linked to the player state. The world doesn't care about the player and his story but about the region/world lore)
  • CynewulfCynewulf Member, Alpha Two
    10 years since I played WoW seriously but I still get a visceral 'I'm home' response if I hear the Stormwind theme, its vocal sting hits you in the face in a way AOC themes, decent as they are, do not. While less impactful the Elwynn Forrest theme is also unforgettable for its haunting woodwind intro. I listen to these 2 themes and can't help thinking about going back to visit Azeroth.

    The current scores for AOC are OK, I would not say they let the game down, but they are not memorable, lacking the instant recognition of the Stormwind and Elwynn classics..

    The current AOC themes are all orchestral, piano or violin, with an absence of vocals or variety in instrumentation, particularly period instruments such as lute, woodwind, hurdy-gurdy and drums that would better reflect the medieval feel of AOC.

    While I am not religious, the people of that period were, and so elements of Gregorian, Eastern Orthodox or Muslim choir music would fit well, and sound great, even given a contemporary spin; Bulgarian folk song Bre Petrunko recently featured in modern rap music, though I'm a Kaval Sviri man myself. Listen to Psalm 50 sung by Trio Mandili...then try and forget it.

    I live in the UK, and the current AOC themes just feel contemporary western, they don't align with an experience based in mysterious realms in far off lands in a distant age. For example, I can't help thinking that some Mongolian throat singing be great for a plains biome, a desert biome should sound akin to a Zikr chant.

    The great thing about being involved in AOC at this stage is seeing elements of the game that are good now, knowing that they are only going to get better. Keep up the great work.





  • sparadrassparadras Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited December 2024
    hi
    i never really know to say when it comes to make comments in here but i have to say that one of the raison i fell in love with aoc was the music in some of the first video i saw a few years back like this one

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RK4z8tQwHU

    i hope this kind of music will find it s way into the game somewhere as would love to sit at the top of some montain, sit there for 5mn and just take in the views


    so far the game looks and feel absolutly great
    lots of kuddos for the team
  • DroidmanDroidman Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 2024
    Music is a huge part of an MMO! I would even say it can absolutely make or break your experience.
    I've been playing MMOs since about 2006, and for me, this genre is all about the blend of immersive exploration and (usually) faster-paced, social interactions. The music must complement everything you do in-game without being too intrusive or feeling "out of place." This is no easy task to implement, as great music alone won’t suffice if it’s used "incorrectly."

    To their credit, NC usually gets it right—as others have mentioned, Lineage 2 and AION had incredible soundtracks (though I’m not sure about their more recent games). I can't say I loved every piece individually, but when I heard them in specific locations or certain circumstances, they felt so right and natural.

    Things to Consider:

    • Avoid genres that feel out of place in the context of the game (sorry Mick Gordon—you’re still amazing!).
    • Do not reuse the same piece of music for different situations; each track should feel unique to its moment.
    • Pay attention to dynamics—the player shouldn’t need to constantly adjust audio settings to balance “too quiet” and “too loud.”
    • Provide as many customizable audio settings as possible (distinct volume controls for different types of music, like combat or ambient tracks, are a must in my opinion).
    • Ensure the music blends seamlessly with the current ambiance. What is the location? What is its lore? What is the player doing?
    • The music should inspire the player in every situation—not leave them bored or distracted (for example, the current combat music sounds like what my 1-year-old daughter does with her toy piano 😂 — yes, I know we’re in Alpha).
    • For some situations, something epic would be a great fit—symphonic orchestras, maybe even a chorus in Latin or a Verran language.
    • Cheaping out on music would be a grave mistake!

    Just my opinionated 2 cents. Merry Christmas & happy New Year to everyone out there! 🧑‍🎄 And thanks Intrepid for everything you're doing for us MMO fans!
  • GizbanGizban Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited December 2024
    The only music that has stuck with me:

    When entering Elwynn Forest in WoW.

    Every song in Skyrim.

    Skyrim used appropriate instruments and style for the setting, and I especially loved the use of voices.

    When I hear voices woven through the music as an instrument it automatically envokes thoughts of times past.

    https://youtu.be/mi5DVPBkQSk?si=HDjxhKcZT4N2XUBd
  • RazThemunRazThemun Member, Alpha Two
    Audio is essential. Whether that is music, voice acting, etc. The more that can be added the more the world of verra will feel allive.
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